He says I raped him.

[cherry7up]

Allright this is kind of long.

 

My ex and I were together for two years. Our breakup was the result of a NASTY fight (I got so angry I just ran at him and he fell over into the bushes). At any rate, about two weeks we went out for coffee and definitely seemed like we were going to stay friends, at the very least. His birthday party was a few days later. Here's what happened.

 

After drinking heavily my ex and I had sex. We had been on fairly good terms. When I went to leave the party, my stuff was in his room. I collected my purse and then noticed him on his bed. I went over to say good bye and poked him, saying “DUDE! Are you passing out at your own party?” He immediately began to wave his arms about wildly, yelling “DRUNKTY DRUNK DRUNK DRUNK.” As drunk as I was, I began to do the same. Somewhere amidst all the raving, we wound up horizontal and kissing. I’m still not sure what happened. At a certain point, with us kissing and both pulling at each other’s clothing, I noticed someone passed out on the floor. I flopped over and kicked them out, and then locked the door. I stumbled back to the bed, and he took off my clothing (not sure where my shoes went) and I took off his belt. Then someone banged on the door. We ignored it at first. After a little while I threw on jeans and a t-shirt that was lying around and opened it. The people got their stuff. I went back to the bed, allowed him to take off my clothes again when ANOTHER person knocked. Repeat last instance, except that I didn’t put on pants this time. After that I re-locked the door and stumbled back to the bed. We had intercourse, and he was on top for half of it. He pulled out before he came. I think I may have given him oral at one point. After he came, he gave me oral. Then he went into the bathroom, then over to the desk to check his voicemail. After he checked his voicemail, he came bed to bed. At this point I was nearly passed out and he initiated round two. After that, his roommate came in and passed out. We kissed more and then both passed out. Anyway, next day, I wake up there, confused and disoriented…I couldn’t recall most of the details, but as I sobered up I remembered more. He blacked it out. He says he remembers it as if it were a dream. At any rate, the next day people were accusing me of raping and taking advantage of him. He has said that if it had been any other girl he would not have had sex with her, and that he only remembers it as if it were a good sex dream, and that it’s all my fault because I came into his room and approached him. There are at least two people accusing me of rape. My question is this, we were BOTH drunk, neither under any duress of threat, however, he remembers nothing, even though he was obviously functional (though intoxicated) at the time. So, did I rape him?

 

At any rate, he's is COMPLETELY convinced that the whole thing was my fault. People were harassing me and saying I should be thrown in jail. When I went over to his house to speak with him about it, he CALLED THE COPS!

 

The worst part of it is that I still love him VERY VERY much, and I know that most of his behavior has been influenced by one of his (male) friends who's had it in for me forever.

 

I haven't even attempted to contact him in two weeks.

 

Is this whole situation hopeless? Somehow, I just can't believe he would stick with this whole rape thing much longer...

[heart2heart]

How old is the male in question? 14?? Sounds immature enough to be a male of that age.

 

Why you would still want anything to do with a guy who accuses you of 'raping' him, when you so obviously didn't, is beyond me...seems more like it was 'mutual consent' to me. I'd stay well away, think yourself lucky you are rid of the jerk....who knows what else he would have been/would be capable of.

[Bubsa]

Hi

 

Though its a very serious situation that you are in now I am a little bit amazed of how this came about I have been there so many times. Rape is a very very serious and should not be mentioned unless it reallly happens.

 

Reading your post I can't see how on earth he even thinks that you did this. Rape is when you pysically force sex on someone without there consent in any way. Normally forcefully means you can be pysically violent and try and over power the person force yourself onto them.

 

In your case it was a drunken moment of madness,. how many times this has happend to me is unreal. I have got sooo wasted and ending up sleeping with someone having sex with them and can't remember much in the morning . I have never forced myself on anyone normally if this happens to me its with a ex girlfriend and though we have issue hence why we have split there is still feelings there and both end up drunk and having sex.

 

I have even joked with one girl in the morning that she raped me the night before as I was so drunk could not even remember having sex. I am now a father of a two year old boy and my days of getting this drunk are well are truely behind me I could never put myself in that position again.

 

The lesson to be learnt here is NEVER get as drunk as you did that night as obviously you cant control your actions. I know sometimes it seems fun to get wasted and just lose all the problems of the world for those few hours on a friday or saturday night, but as you have just found out it can also create its own problems and in your case cause very serious acusations been thrown about.

 

I am not exactly sure how to tell you to deal with this as I dont know you or your ex. But what I can say is from what you have told me you did not rape this boy but just had a drunken fling.

[cherry7up]

the guy in question is 21. the incident happened at his birthday party, actually.

 

I believe that a LOT of his anger is being fueled by a few of his friends who didn't like me anyway. but his two CLOSEST friends think he's being really rather ridiculous, and that it's likely he'll eventually get over it.

 

I love(d?) him VERY VERY much, and I want him in my life, not necesarrily in a romantic capacity, though that would be nice. The guy was truly, truly my best friend. This whole thing is VERY out of character for him.

 

Next week, one of our mutual best friends is having a dinner party and we'll both be there. I'm not quite sure how to act to help calm the situation some. Any idea?

[Craig]

What is your ex's recollection of the events on the night in question that lead him to believe he was raped? Why were the police called? How do you know the police were actually called?

[SexKitten]

the same thing happened to me, only i was in your boyfriend's shoes.

 

i remembered very little of the encounter, but was sure i was not raped, and i would never accuse anyone of rape unless i knew for a fact that rape occurred.

 

i think this guy needs to grow up. he sounds like a huge p*ussy.

 

don't go to the dinner party if he is going to be there; it will turn ugly. let them say what they're going to say, it doesn't change the truth. explain your absence to the person having the party, that while you did nothing wrong, you feel the presence of both of you will make for an uncomfortable situation for everyone. ask the host to put a halt to the conversation if it should start, and to make it clear to the guests that the point of the party is not be a wanna-be jury meeting.

 

on the other hand, i wonder if people would respond differently if the roles of male and female were reversed.

[Craig]

Originally posted by SexKitten

on the other hand, i wonder if people would respond differently if the roles of male and female were reversed.

Good point SexKitten, I think peoples response would be different if a drunk ex-bf locked himself in the bedroom of his very drunk (blacking out) ex-gf and had sex with her.

[tiki]

Funny that he 'came' even though he was 'raped'. This guy is F.O.S.

[Bubsa]

Think thats a very interesting question you have put on the end of your post sexkitten. As I for one being a male always tend to look at Rape as what a Man does to a Women. (Not saying I am right just way I was bought up). Probally would have responded a bit differnet had it been a bloke that had stated this happened to him.

 

There is not a line between consentual sex and rape in is normally easily to distinguish between them. But add in a very drunk Male and Female and thats when issues arrise. I have seen a few blokes in my time get accused of Rape when a girl gets extremly drunk as well as the bloke, Sex happens but neither remembers much but the Girl screams rape as she is unsure of what exactly happened so asumes he must of raped her, but normally she has no sign of forcefull entry by the bloke.

 

Makes me mad sometimes as I only believe Rape happens if one of the two involved does not consent to having sex or during Sex they CLEARLY state they wish to stop . It is not Rape if two people have sex but neither really remembers much in the morning but then decide it must of been rape as they can't remeber anything. UNLESS of course they have been spiked by a date rape drug or something.

[RecordProducer]

Next time when he or his friends accuse you of raping him tell them that it's HIM who raped you. If you raped him then he raped you just as much as you him. This is sooooooo ridiculous. They must be jealous or evil or something.

You were together for two years in the past, you were both drunk and sex happened twice. You both enjoyed it. He didn't say NO, he wasn't defending himself physically nor did he yelled for help. he wasn't asleep or in coma or unaware of what was going on. You didn't drug him or anything. You're not his boss, and you were in love before. In the eyes of the law, you're perfectly clean.

If I were you, I would never say "hello" to his friends again. This is so stupid! Even if the genders were reverse, it wouldn't be rape. If you had sex voluntarily and AFTER the sex you changed your mind and regret it, it's NOT RAPE!

Rape is if a woman gets so drunk that a guy has sex with her while she's unaware of what's going on or unable to defend herself. But in this case, she supposedly never showed any signs of wanting to have intercourse. The law assumes that if you don't say NO, it can still be a rape. It's to protect young girls who got drugged or drunk at parties.

It has nothing to do with your case. You were drunk, horny, and made love, you didn't rape him. Idiots!

[billybadass36]

Date rape (as that phrase is used in most jurisdictions of the U.S.) is when one party to the sexual encounter does not "consent" to the sexual activity. When one is under the age of legal consent, then the law recognizes that ANY person under a certain age lacks the legal capacity to consent to sexual activity...hence statutory rape laws.

 

With date rape the law recognizes that persons under the influence of alcohol or illicit drugs may also lack the mental capacity to consent to sexual activity. The question is not whether or not he was "raped", but rather whether he had the mental capacity to consent to having sex with you. If the roles were reversed, and you made a police report, you bet your a$$ he'd be in jail right now.

 

It's totally irrelevant whether he actually "performed", was "on top", or how many times. The deal is, he was passed-out drunk, you orchestrated a sexual encounter with a person you were not presently in a relationship with, going so far as to remove other passed out persons from the room and locking the door to ensure that you could perpetrate this in privacy. He was drunk. You cannot enter into a valid contract when intoxicated and you cannot consent to sexual activity, according to the law in most U.S. jurisdictions, when sufficiently intoxicated.

 

Gender should not (in theory) matter. If the roles were reversed, by and large, this community would be condemning you as a rapist. End of story. It's disturbing that you've gathered up quite the cheering section here for engaging in what's actually quite repulsive behavior.

 

If I was at a party and my ex-girlfriend was passed-out drunk and I orchestrated the type of interlude that you did with your ex-boyfriend, I'd be in the clink right now.

[tiki]

It's totally irrelevant whether he actually "performed", was "on top", or how many times.

 

Lemme make sure I understand....by "performing" are you referring to the climax? Because he did climax, as she stated.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by cherry7up

Somewhere amidst all the raving, we wound up horizontal and kissing. I’m still not sure what happened. At a certain point, with us kissing and both pulling at each other’s clothing, I noticed someone passed out on the floor. I flopped over and kicked them out, and then locked the door. I stumbled back to the bed, and he took off my clothing (not sure where my shoes went) and I took off his belt. Then someone banged on the door. We ignored it at first. After a little while I threw on jeans and a t-shirt that was lying around and opened it. The people got their stuff. I went back to the bed, allowed him to take off my clothes again when ANOTHER person knocked. Repeat last instance, except that I didn’t put on pants this time. After that I re-locked the door and stumbled back to the bed. We had intercourse, and he was on top for half of it. He pulled out before he came. I think I may have given him oral at one point. After he came, he gave me oral. Then he went into the bathroom, then over to the desk to check his voicemail. After he checked his voicemail, he came bed to bed. At this point I was nearly passed out and he initiated round two. After that, his roommate came in and passed out. We kissed more and then both passed out.

I marked the sections that I find clearly indicate that it was sex by mutual consent. He was actively engaging in the sexual intercourse here and that's why I don't understand billybadass36's claim that it was rape. If the situation was reverse, then I would still not consider this to be rape.

[billybadass36]

In the jurisdiction that I live and practice law in, these claims are made and successfully prosecuted by countless young women in college who are victimized by men who get them drunk and do naughty things to them. At the time, the women are generally active participants in the sexual activity and appear to be sharing in the decision to have sex and the activity itself, but their intoxication prevents them from having the LEGAL capacity to consent. Whether you agree with it or not, if this happened in the US, it's probably considered date rape.

[SexKitten]

Originally posted by billybadass36

In the jurisdiction that I live and practice law in, these claims are made and successfully prosecuted by countless young women in college who are victimized by men who get them drunk and do naughty things to them. At the time, the women are generally active participants in the sexual activity and appear to be sharing in the decision to have sex and the activity itself, but their intoxication prevents them from having the LEGAL capacity to consent. Whether you agree with it or not, if this happened in the US, it's probably considered date rape.

 

 

she was also drunk, and he performed part of the act on her...even initiated the second act when she was near passing out. neither remember everything entirely.

 

so did they rape each other?

 

[Bubsa]

Though you have some very good points BillyBadass36, the most interesting being that had the roles been reveresed would he be locked up. But whatever way you look at this it is not Rape.

 

A few of things to take into consideration. He was on top he MUST have been in a state where he could engage what would seem full sexual activity. He then went down and gave her Oral sex again did she have a gun to his head ??? NO !!!

 

So he was a willing partner in this encounter!!

 

But agreed that maybe she should not have gone into the room while he was sparked out, could probally agree that maybe she should have left him alone when she saw him. But to say she raped him that I am afraid is not the case.

 

He proablly got up in the morning regreted what he did and said this.

 

If what you are saying this is Rape then every Friday and Saturday night in London Thousands and Thousands of people are raped becasue this sort of behaviour nearly always happens. In fact I know a lot of people that go out on this Razz Girls as well as Boys there ideal night is to go out get drunk and then pull someone to have sex with.

[billybadass36]

MCL Section 750.520a(g) defines "mentally incapacitated" as meaning "a person is rendered temporarity incapable of appraising or controlling his or her conduct due to the influence of a narcotic, anesthetic, or other substance administered to that person..."

 

The next section makes it a felony punishable up to life in prison if you have sexual penetration with a mentally incapacitated person if you are aided or abetted by at least one person - CSC First degree.

 

The section after that makes it a felony punishable up to 15 years if you have sexual contact with a mentally incapacitated person if you are aided or abetted by at least one person - CSC Second degree.

 

The one after that - CSC Third degree (most likely to apply in this circumstance) - makes it a felony punishable by up to 15 years in prison if you have sexual penetration with a person you know or have reason to know is "mentally incapaable, mentally incapacitated, or physically helpless".

 

"Physically helpless" means that a person is unconscious, asleep, or for any other reason is phsycially unable to communicate unwillingness to an act. MCL SEction 750.520a(i).

 

While "physically helpless" is debatable in this scenario, mental incapacity is not.

[blind_otter]

It's rape if one or the other party says NO and STOP. Or if they are completely unconscious and unaware of what is being done to their body.

[billybadass36]

Originally posted by SexKitten

so did they rape each other?

 

 

In a hyper-technical sense, maybe, but I doubt it. She facilitated the whole thing and had the wherewithall to kick out the other passed out guy, lock the door behind her and wake up her passed-out drunk ex-bf so she could get off. My argument - had he wanted to have sex with her, he wouldn't have broken up with her; he wouldn't have drunk himself into oblivion; he wouldn't have passed out in his bed ALONE; he wouldn't have closed the door behind him when he went into his bed to pass out ALONE; he wouldn't have allowed another guy to pass out in his room with him, etc.

 

This is just another example of the woman being played as the victim on this board. It's getting rather tiresome. We love to make men always accountable for their actions and you folks constantly remind us of that, yet women are somehow less accountable for theirs.

[Bubsa]

So does that make me a rapest

 

As before I was with my Girlfriend and had my Child. My weekend used to consist of going out Clubbing geting totally wasted sometimes I would pull what where willing girls who used to take me back to THEIR house (My Mum and Dad are Christians so could not take them back to mine) for casual drunken sex!!!!.

[billybadass36]

Don't know the law in London, Bubsa.

 

The Date Rape laws in the US are under-enforced obviously. Not every instance of Date Rape is reported to the authorities for obvious reasons. This is why in the US, every time you have drunken sex with someone, you run the risk of the sex partner waking up, being repulsed by the thought of having had sex with you, and reporting it to the police out of sheer embarassment.

 

All morality issues aside, based upon the letter of the law, several men (and undoubtedly women) have been charged, tried, and convicted under this exact same scenario. I'm not advocating for or against this law. I'm sure this law was enacted with the best intentions and it's probably been used to convict people who really needed to get clinked, but I'm also sure it's been abused and has sent otherwise innocent people to the clink for having nothing more than a drunken frolic with what appeared to be a willing partner the night before...

[majorthird]

Yeah, it's sick that he changed his mind around so much. We weren't there, we can't judge how obvious it was how much he wanted to or not wanted to have sex, but even if you're drunk and nearly passing out, you can choose not to go down on a girl (i hate to go down on a girl if i'm that wasted ;-> )

 

If he has second thoughts about what happened, he should talk it over with you. Then you'll both know wether or not it felt like 'rape' for either one of you or not. Especially if he says he hardly recalls what happened, he's premature telling his friends you raped him.

 

The way he played it, really just sounds like he woke up, not being sure what he'd be up to and played it safe by telling his friends that it was all just your idea and your fault.

 

Try to talk with him about it, try to make him see that he was in it too, that you were both drunk (maybe it helps to tell him that you're having second thoughts too about what happened, and that maybe it wasn't the smartest thing to do even without his accusations and immature behaviour). Try to get to his senses that he could have stopped if he wanted too, just as much as you, but you were both drunk and you didn't want to question wether or not it was a wise thing to do. If he agrees, grab him by the balls and make him promise three times on his testicles that he tells his friends it wasn't exactly rape!

 

No, seriously, try to get him to his senses. Again, i wasn't there, but i think that the worst appropriate accusation would be that you seduced him, not rape. I take it that this woulnd't have happened if you were sober, right?

 

Best of luck!

[RecordProducer]

I bet all of you men have raped many women in the past, just like we women have raped many men. Any time I had sex with a drunk man, I actually raped him?

Is it rape only because he said so? Then I guess I didn't rape anyone cuz nobody complained after he got sober, but I suppose if they all meet together and come to a conclusion that they were too drunk (in their opinion), they might press the charges and I might go to jail forever as a serial rapist!

How do you know you got a consent to have sex with someone? Do you have to have his written statement signed in front of witnesses, approved by the judge, and verified at court?

If he took her clothes off, had sex twice, kissed her and everything, and then fell asleep, how is it a rape?

What you're manipulating with is that if the genders were reverse the police might BELIEVE the woman (if she claims she was raped). But it'd still be a terrible lie if her ex-BF were a woman and claimed he was raped.

 

The temporarily unaware or unable to appraise control means that if the rapist was drunk and unaware, he is not a rapist. All these statements that you're maneuvering with are sexist and favor the male side. It means if the male rapist was drunk he is not responsible for his actions. And another point you're (un)intentionally getting at is that if the woman is so drunk it's not rape (because that's what we're claiming here for the guy).

 

Besides there is no such thing like a guy rape, unless the woman tied a man who cried and defended himself, beat him, then gave him something to get his penis up and raped him.

 

If you sleep with a guy who told you he was Brad Pitt and really looked like him so you believed him and then the next day you figure out he was NOT brad Pitt, is that a rape?

[majorthird]

I hope not, i do it all the time! ;->

 

Good points.

And anyway, don't let yourself be talked into believing anything BY HIS FRIENDS!! For crying out loud! Let him talk to you if he really wants you to believe you raped him.

[cherry7up]

Actually, I didn't go into his room for the purpose of having sex with him. I went in to get my purse and say goodbye. And the person who was on the floor that I wound up kicking out was MY girl-friend who came in with me when I got my stuff. I didn't close the door until AFTER he and I had been kissing and clothes were coming off.

 

At any rate, the police weren't called on account fo the rape. They were called because when I went over to his house the next day he REFUSED to find out what had happened. He said "YOU CAME INTO MY ROOM AND ****ED ME WHILE I WAS UNCONSCIOUS!" (Though he so wasn't.) Then he said he'd call the cops if I didn't leave. I couldn't believe he'd take it that far. So I stayed. And then lo and behold they actually showed up. When they got there, I didn't put up a fight or anything. I went out the door to them. They talked to both of us and after he went inside they asked me why I on earth I was there. Once I explained the whole situation to them (they asked), they said it was definitely consensual and he's obviously a coward.

 

The problem is that there are a LOT of people who somehow believe he was either completely unconscious or that I orchestrated the whole event on purpose. And neither of which is the case. I mean, it's my stupid drunken fault for getting us into the situation, but that doesn't make me anything more than dumb and drunk (which HE was as well) certainly not a rapist or sexual predator.