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Men- interpret! Can't read his signals


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I'm addressing this specifically to the gentlemen:

 

We've been seeing each other secretly (for reasons not important here) for 2 years. He told me that this was taking a huge toll on him, and that he wanted our relationship in the open. I finally consented... and he told me he's "not going to take me up on my offer right now." A few days later, he said something like, "it's not that we shouldn't email each other again-- just maybe not every day." I told him I'd back off.

 

Didn't contact him. A week later, he emails to ask how i've been. I let a couple days go by and responded with a friendly, 3 sentence email with an update on blah blah blah. He responds that he's glad i'm okay, that he's 'making it'. Another week passes. He texts me & emails to say our favorite show is having some special. I miss the msgs and the show. Thank him via email. I see the show and text that it's great and that we should watch the next one later that week. He says "wednesday doesn't work, but friday is a possibility." He'll let me know. Well, Friday rolls around and he emails that he can't do it. He's sorry. Maybe later this week. I say sure. He says he'll get back to me with show times. That was yesterday (10/15). No word yet, but wondering a few things. I'm not on facebook, but my friend showed me that his status is still "it's complicated"-- as it's been all this time.

 

3. Questions!

1. Is he ambivalent/ trying to figure things out-- and there's still hope for us? We've gone through this before (pause, then reconciliation).

2. He posts to facebook every day or so--very regularly. Does the unchanged status mean that he's still making up his mind?

3. Is dragging his feet, trying to make me mad, hoping we'll have a fight and things can end-end? We never had a breakup fight... just an email exchange about things needing to change-- then me consenting-- then him saying 'not going to take you up on that now."

 

Any insight? Please! I totally have never been able to read this guy.

 

Am trying to be nice, happy, cool and unclingy, but just hanging in limbo like this is realllllly hard.

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Billie The Puppet

1.) If you have gone through it before chances are he is done with you. Give up Hope it's a moving on killer.

 

 

2.)It's complicated as a status does no one justice, sure it could be it's complicated because you had a hidden relationship but it is one that doesn't ever have to be changed by that I mean it could now apply to him as he is in between transitioning from one partner to another.

 

My ex (female) kept a lot of things on FB up until the other day and we have been broken up for almost 3 months and she had a new man for awhile I'm told. I just blocked her account from being a friend last night as she deleted all traces of me and I thought to myself I don't need to see her and the new guy replace me.

 

3.) Often the predumper will want to make the relationship rocky, hard so that they predumpee will get so frustrated and become the dumper themselves. It takes the guilt off of the predumper if it works. Combine this answer with the above two and I think you know he is done with you.

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Often the predumper will want to make the relationship rocky, hard so that they predumpee will get so frustrated and become the dumper themselves. It takes the guilt off of the predumper if it works. Combine this answer with the above two and I think you know he is done with you.

 

Yes, that's true. I've done that.

 

A girl once loved me a lot more than I loved her. In fact, I didn't really love her at all.

 

So I became evasive and difficult. And then she dumped me.

 

I guess it's all to do with sparing a woman's feelings. You could call it being weak if you want, but few men want to hurt a woman.

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This has been VERY helpful.

Thanks Andrew-bkk and Billie the puppet.

 

I want to clarify a few things quickly **so I can't tell myself: Those guys with that great advice didn't know X, so maybe they'd say something different if they knew..."

 

If you're going to have the same response as before (probably!), that's **totally fine.** Helpful. I just want to be 100% clear. :)

 

1. When we started seeing each other 2 years ago, that's when he chose "it's complicated" on facebook. It hasn't changed since-- or yet-- so that's why i wonder.

 

2. This is the longest relationship this guy has had by nearly 180%. At spots along the way, we'd have a fight over something (he has a HOT, hair-trigger temper), break up, then he'd apologize-- or I would, and our relationship would get more serious (and nicer). Or we'd say we were done, then he'd get in touch. We'd see a movie, then end up all over each other and back together. Always crazy chemistry.

 

3. The details in #2 here are why I'm wondering if we're doing this again now that something big has changed (i'm saying I'm ok with us dating openly--what had always been an issue for him).

 

4. Okay-- one last thing. When I originally said no about the 'dating openly' thing, he said he thought we should take a break and wait until we could-- then start up again. I said I didn't want that, so we kept going. No break. Then this. Is THIS the break? Is this the *NOW* part of "Dating openly? I'm not going to take you up on that now"?

 

It's this stuff, esp. #4, in combo with the no-change-in-facebook-status thing, that confuses me. It's part of why I can't tell if we're on a break or over!!

 

-----

Anything else you can say on this would be WONDERFUL!!

I'm doing such a bad job of reading signals.

What you're saying IS VERRRY helpful!!

Thank you!!

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Being in limbo really sucks, but you will become crazy trying to understand his motives. From reading your posts, I don't think he is completely done, but I do think he might be as confused as you are. The best thing you can do right now is to take care of yourself, stay busy, and let the chips fall where they may.

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Thank you, Alittlejaded.

you're right-- and it does suck being in limbo-- and it is making me crazy!

 

(so today i went running and ran 15 miles. yeah!) :)

 

Seriously-- thank you.

I really appreciate all this good insight.

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Wait, what? :confused:

 

I don't get it. Why are you questioning his motives when you're the one who refuses to lay open the status of your relationship?

 

No wonder he's frustrated.

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Ugh I so know wat u mean about men dragging things out. I have tried to arrange stuff with my ex a few times and I always either get a "yeah I mite be able to" or a yes but then a "sorry I can't make it anymore".

 

I think its a guys way of showing theyr keen (guys are lazy s**ts and wouldn't go into the effort of trying to organise something if they didn't want to) but he's still trying to figure out his feelings...at least thats what I think my ex is up to anyway...

 

good luck :)

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It sounds like you're going through something similar.

You know how frustrating it is.

 

From what I hear, men and women read this situation VERY differently-- so I'm trying to step away from the way I'm seeing it to get a male perspective. Not sure how to proceed.

 

I'm trying to be cool and give him space

(A few men I've talked to have said to tell him I've moved on. If he's on the fence, pulling back/ sensing competition might light a fire under him. That I should pull back because I'm being too available (Bcz. I was the one who made the big concession-- saying we could do what he wanted-- and then he backed off). I'm worried that if I pull back and convey that i'm happy and not pushing for anything-- or even that I'm done-- that he'll give up.)

 

If we're "on a break" rather than broken up-- the way I react may matter a lot.

 

I just can't tell what's going on!

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Hi Don.

(Aloha?)

 

The reason really is unrelated.

 

It was reasonable enough that we dated for 2 years without revealing our relationship-- by mutual agreement. In the last few weeks, the thing that needed to change for us to date openly (on a timeframe unrelated to either of us), happened. Beforehand, he was saying he wanted to pause, wait until it was possible to date openly, then resume. We didn't take a break. Then, the "something needs to change" conversation. I was still feeling cautious, but agreed it was time to date openly.

 

His response, "That's good, but I'm not going to take you up on your offer right now." (chronology: Insert this explanation before the events that happened just this last week or two-- in original post).

 

Does this help?

Can you give me the male perspective on any of my 3 questions?

(I clarified them subsequently in the thread.)

 

I'd really (!!) appreciate any insight you or any of the other gentlemen on this list might be able to offer. Many thanks!

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Billie The Puppet
1. When we started seeing each other 2 years ago, that's when he chose "it's complicated" on facebook. It hasn't changed since-- or yet-- so that's why i wonder.

 

Yes, I understand this but why back then was it It's complicated? also He can go from It's complicated in one relationship to It's complicated in another just like one can go from In a Relationship to In a Relationship with another person so there is no point in going is single to update it seconds later to It's complicated again.

 

 

2. This is the longest relationship this guy has had by nearly 180%. At spots along the way, we'd have a fight over something (he has a HOT, hair-trigger temper), break up, then he'd apologize-- or I would, and our relationship would get more serious (and nicer). Or we'd say we were done, then he'd get in touch. We'd see a movie, then end up all over each other and back together. Always crazy chemistry.

 

Past relationships are not of your concern. Comparing is an insecurity, insecurity is unattractive. I can't argue on again off again semantics but I can say they are more unhealthy than a relationship that stays on. Perhaps not enough time was spent apart in these times and you ventured back into each other arms. Say he wanted to get a movie with you just as friends but then a moment happened so he dragged it so it isn't instant pain by saying oh I didn't mean for that to happen. I was on again off again before current ex took a break, break was resolved then it ended. I consider that on again off again. I feel we got back together out of her pity (she swears else-wise) she now has a new guy. Years before that another ex and I were on again off again like 4 times. We were stubborn and leaving each other to explore other options when they didn't work we returned. Actually her first split with me was because she thought I was only dating her for sex. (We hadn't even had it at that point once) Basically you have to question if you really want a relationship that is on/off because problems are not worked on when they occur (Take the person in question out of the picture I asked if you want an on again off again relationship or if you want a relationship) You also described traits of him that are negative do you want someone with a hairline temper? - Writing this reply although I love(d) my ex I can see she is not the one for me I once thought she was because love was blind.

 

 

3. The details in #2 here are why I'm wondering if we're doing this again now that something big has changed (i'm saying I'm ok with us dating openly--what had always been an issue for him).

 

This issue should have been resolved the moment it came up not dragged. It can not be considered "always" had it been resolved instantly, not being able to work through "issues" is a doomed relationship. Love see's no boundaries.

Some people want to keep a relationship a secret because of what others would think (For example inter-racial who are afraid of public and family backlash) Sorry but if you really love someone those fears would have been faced.

 

 

4. Okay-- one last thing. When I originally said no about the 'dating openly' thing, he said he thought we should take a break and wait until we could-- then start up again. I said I didn't want that, so we kept going. No break. Then this. Is THIS the break? Is this the *NOW* part of "Dating openly? I'm not going to take you up on that now"?

 

When one wants to take a break, it allows them to do things guiltless because they can justify it by saying hey we were on a break. However it also places the other person in a mindset where they can't move on until they have a real answer.

 

I honestly have to say move on. Move on doesn't have to mean date others though it helps aid the process. Just live life without him you really have no choice in the matter it is out of your control.

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This issue should have been resolved the moment it came up not dragged. It can not be considered "always" had it been resolved instantly, not being able to work through "issues" is a doomed relationship. Love see's no boundaries.

Some people want to keep a relationship a secret because of what others would think (For example inter-racial who are afraid of public and family backlash) Sorry but if you really love someone those fears would have been faced.

 

This is an excellent point. If you hesitated at the time, then you exhibited fear. He did not. He wanted this more than you. He is now tired, a tad bit frustrated, and his motivation for continuing this relationship has diminished.

 

I agree with Don and others. The secret nature of this relationship is the major sticking point. I dated someone at work for years, and she did not want to make our relationship public. It was silly since everyone suspected anyways. Her UNwillingness to make it public, spoke to her indecisiveness and her fear that was pervasive in many other subtle facets of our relationship. I agreed to her plan, for my fear of losing her. This was my mistake. I let her dictate and control the parameters of the relationship.

 

My gut tells me that he is looking to take the lead in this relationship.

 

For this relationship to survive, you must permit him to take the lead. His flare ups with his temper, may be his method to gain some control. Of course, I have very few details, only a hunch.

 

This relationship has only one chance. You relinquish some control. If this man didn't have a pair of balls a couple of years ago, I suspect he is growing a pair now.

 

I realize that I am classifying you as a dominating personality, but you might be softer than a marshmellow. Don't lose any sleep over my opinion.

 

Good luck in getting him back into your arms!

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There's a reason the "relationship" was hidden; cheating, married, inappropriate. So my thought is the "reason" is very important in our ability to offer sound advice. I like how the OP keeps saying it's not related. If it's not, then why not tell. Let me guess: he is or was married and he chose to keep her a secret for his convenience. Now that he's done using her and out of his "situation" he has no need for her nor to bring it out in the open.

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Billie The Puppet

Of course the reason is being hidden because it effects the relationship at hand.

 

The only reason I see for keeping a relationship hidden is to hide it from others be it disapproval of friends, family or one of the parties is a cheating spouse.

 

The reason for it being unopen does matter because that's why it is unopen.

 

I answer the OP once, then the original poster defended my answers and asked almost the same questions again in defense of the ex's actions trying to spin a positive outcome on it creating false hope. It seems to be common with dumpees to say oh but they wouldn't lie or oh but they are not that way etc etc etc because it is what the dumpees want to hear. I should know I'm that dumpee I did all the exact same things.

 

It's out if our control which is why NC is such a great tool to move on.

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I'd like to hear the "reason" from the OP. She reminds me of Padawan. Remember her? She only wanted to listen to people that would tell her what she wanted to hear. That's why she gave us limited or biased information.

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Billie The Puppet
I'd like to hear the "reason" from the OP. She reminds me of Padawan. Remember her? She only wanted to listen to people that would tell her what she wanted to hear. That's why she gave us limited or biased information.

 

So would I, I don't think it will happen though for fear of passing judgement.

Funny the original poster was ready to go open in the real world but so far can't go open on forums in which we only know through text.

 

I think as a new user we all start like that. It's the ones that remain biased or counter argue our points that just don't seem to be able to comprehend. Remember Cody19? I haven't seen him on the forums as of late I wonder if he has moved on.

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wow.

some really accusatory stuff here!

 

i appreciate that you're all trying to help, and to share your experience.

i'm trying to see this through someone else's eyes.

that's the whole point of asking men, specifically.

 

there's really no benefit to me in "spinning" this to get a rosy answer.

a 'happy' answer based on self-serving, conveniently cherry-picked information wouldn't *feel good* at all.

a 'happy' answer based on bad info is worth less than zero-- it's harmful!

i want to actually *get* what's going on.

 

deceiving you only hurts *me*. it means bad info,

it isn't productive (or very nice)--

and you're trying to HELP me!

 

i'm trying to read this guys signals (which I clearly suck at) so that i can do

whatever i can do on my end

to increase the likelihood of us getting back together.

 

if you're telling me that he's done-- then i want to make this as easy as it can be for both of us.

if you're telling me that there's hope-- but tell me "when you talk to him, *don't do X!!" , I want to know.

 

i really love this guy, and i want to do whatever i can to understand what i'm not understanding.

 

i want your advice (that's why i'm here). some of the details seem to get muddled or,

in the absence of information, have gotten some guesses that seem to reflect bady on me or 'my' guy.

there's clearly a trade-off between what i'm comfortable revealing-- and how much information i want to

provide to get the most accurate advice possible.

 

So please believe me when I say these things:

(1.) None of the things that have been guessed are what's going on.

 

The reason for secrecy: Not an affair. Not working together.

Not either of us being embarassed. Not a religious issue. Not a racial issue. None of that.

I think we both think the other person would be very nice to introduce around to friends/ family.

This was about something else that affected us both, but was out of our hands. It was a serious thing.

 

He understood that. He started things. Accepted this, but both of us always wanted it in the open.

It was only a matter of timing. I was the one who was most affected-- and he was trying to protect me.

Things changed and it's possible to date openly. I've still had lingering worries that it's too soon--

that things aren't fully okay, but I agreed we should date openly. It was a function of

both 1) circumstances changing, and 2) not wanting to lose him.

 

For the same reasons that this was all a big deal-- I'm just not comfortable disclosing it here.

I know a little something about anonymnity-- and can tell you it's not all it's cracked up to be.

If you decide you can't say anything without knowing the exact reason-- okay. I've tried to tell you

what it's NOT-- so you can eliminate "he's using her/ she's using him/ they're ashamed/ they've been bad" theories.

 

(2.) When i said, "okay-- let's date openly," he was already at wit's end because of other basic couples-conflict type stuff.

So when he said, "I'm not going to take you up on your offer just now," I didn't know how to read that. Are we broken up? On a break?

Is he trying to figure out what he wants himself?

 

(3.) By the way-- I mentioned the whole "longest relationship he's had" thing for a very different reason that you've suggested.

This is an *awesome* guy. ANYONE who goes from *2 months* as their longest relationship ever--

to *2 YEARS* as their longest relationship-- in a single step (!) is going to go through a lot of changes in that process.

Imagine you'd only ever had a 2 month relationship-- then in the very next one you're having year and 2-year anniversaries and holidays

and trips together, all those 'do you want to leave a toothbrush here' to the "here's a key to my place" to "maybe you should move in" steps.

We talked seriously about kids and marriage. We saw each other through family deaths, serious medical stuff, etc.

I'm telling you this because dating openly is a very big change too. I'd wondered if the hesitation/ break/ break up was related to this.

When I say we'd "gone through this before"-- i mean that it was like these big relationship events would occur-- and it would take a while to

process them in order to move forward. I guessed these big events-- sometimes they might feel like too much to handle-- so he'd back off a bit.

Then decide he did want to move forward. And we would. I don't know if THIS is THAT-- or if he's DONE.

I'm asking you because I can't read the signals.

 

On the more cyncial side-- I did think of something last night that doesn't bode so well for me/ us.

 

It may be that he's not changing his facebook status simply to not deal with questions about it right now.

or he'd rather wait and go from "it's complicated" to "in a relationship" (with someone else) than go from "it's complicated" to "single".

It may not be possible to read anything into it...

(as you know, I HAD hoped it meant he was still undecided)

 

So the way things are now (updating from that original post), when three days passed and he didn't email with days/times for seeing the rerun, I emailed him.

I told him that I wanted to see the show-- and wondered if he was delaying with all the planning because

he was worried we'd have drama. I said I didn't want that. And that I only have good feelings toward him.

It was on the basis of him saying "no thanks," that I erased all my email to/from him and backed off. We were only in contact again because he

started contacting me about this show we'd watched together for 2 years. I did want to watch that together-- but the delays made me think he

was worried about drama-- and I tried to assure him there wouldn't be. I have a good track record of not doing that, by the way.

 

I said:

[[i just want to be happy and move on however that's going to work. The delays are creating drama, though, because they're leaving me hanging,

wondering what's going on and having no answers/information. I offered him what he asked for. He declined. If he's done with me, I want to move on.

He promised me he'd erase all *my* email-- but "not now..." he said. (again with the delay... sigh).

All this keeping me hanging. He may not intend that, but that's how it feels.]]

Well, that's the last thing I said, and he hasn't responded since Sunday.

 

I am really trying to interpret all these delays and lags in response.

Is this apathy? Is this "agggh! screw this. i don't want to even THINK about this anymore"?

Is this indecision? Is this that "make her furious so she'll blow up and end it herself" thing?

(by the way, you suggested something that hadn't occurred to me-- that this "make her angry" was a way of *sparing* feelings)

 

Please tell me what you think, gentlemen.

I really appreciate your advice.

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FreeShrink,

It was *tremendously* nice of you to take a look at this post-- and it was at my direct request after reading your other two posts. They seemed very insightful-- and this one's no different.

 

You are definitely seeing things that have eluded me.

 

Thank you so much-- and for the encouragement. This is even more helpful than you know.

 

Cheers. :)

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Billie The Puppet
wow.

some really accusatory stuff here!

So please believe me when I say these things:

 

..................................................

 

(1.) None of the things that have been guessed are what's going on.

 

The reason for secrecy: Not an affair. Not working together.

Not either of us being embarassed. Not a religious issue. Not a racial issue. None of that.

I think we both think the other person would be very nice to introduce around to friends/ family.

This was about something else that affected us both, but was out of our hands. It was a serious thing.

 

 

....................................................

 

 

Please tell me what you think, gentlemen.

I really appreciate your advice.

 

You leave us no choice, but to guess/accuse when you omit information that could potentially help. You still express you don't want to as you feel no need to. It's in your rights but to be honest this is a forum where we don't know you personally at the moment all you are is a user name with problems. It's like a single grain of salt it the pepper. Why are you so afraid that grain of salt is going to be found? What are you worried about someone finding out if you were ready for the relationship to be open. It was hidden for a reason, you were ready for it to be open. So far the only people that know why it was hidden is you and him, he wanting it to be open means he wanted others to know. These others being friends and family. You both thought it would be nice to introduce to each others family. Why it wasn't done is part of the reason this relationship was hidden. However you say none of what we mentioned is the reason for the secrecy and I did mention family approval. If you insist this info is not important than I'll give you advice based on this not being important.

 

If he wants you, there is no such thing as signals, he will blatantly come out and say I want you, he will go out of his way to contact you and tell you this, not ask about you or if you are doing okay? but he will say something along the lines of:

 

I think this break up is a mistake, I realized you are what I want and need in my life can we work on us?

 

My real advice is to give up on this and move on. Right now you are keeping yourself in limbo. I've been there and it sucks, I am now in a place where I know my ex has moved on and know that even though I love(d) her she is not coming back. I still hurt from time to time but I am only human.

 

Don't put your life on hold for anyone, move on and if he so decides to come back and you are available then than great but if not it is his loss not yours.

 

However as a male and you are asking for advice I think he is done with you. He waited for this relationship to go open long enough and it didn't. Just because you are ready now (I question this as it sounds like you are only ready now as he is lost) doesn't mean it's a fix all perhaps the damage has all been done by now. Like I said this was an issue that lingered too long, if just 1 single issue lingers for too long do you really think he will be ready to face other issues with you?

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Thank you so much-- and for the encouragement. This is even more helpful than you know.

 

Cheers. :)

 

My experience with this site has also been very good. Our friends and family can get sick and tired of our shaky love lives, and these forums provide good advice. I had been eavesdropping as a voyeur on the site for about a month until I decided to throw my hat into the ring.

 

You are writing long entries so you are investing and participating. I hope you reap the rewards.

 

I have two observations from the second chances forum: 1) Most of the posts are from dumpees, so it is biased, fairly obvious as we seek consolation. 2) I have noticed more men than women posting on these breakup threads.

 

To your dilemma---- You mentioned that your boyfriend has not experienced a relationship that lasted more than 2 months. I would assume that he is in his mid/late-20s. This is not very unusual. In your twenties, many people jump from one 2 month to a 3 month back to a 2 month "relationship" and never experience the conflicts, compromise, and mediation required in a long term relationships. However, if your boyfriend is in his 30s, this could be a commitment phobic individual.

 

In other words, don't overestimate your worthiness because of the 2 year longevity. It was bound to happen. He may want to go in another direction.

 

From your post, it doesn't seem that a large bomb was dropped a couple of weeks ago to instigate his indifference towards you. However, his disinterest in this relationship might have been brewing inside of him for months. It is difficult to know. Relationships are unpredictable. Longterm marriages are threatened as well.

 

If he is not passionate about meeting with you, then go No contact. I agree with Billy and Don. It doesn't look promising. Nevertheless, we don't know his state of mind, or his options. All we know is that he is not aggressively pursuing you.

 

You have made the effort to clarify your story and reach out for help. I applaud. However, I can not sugar coat.

 

Second chances are only possible if you ratchet up your attractiveness index in his eyes. Even then, sometimes it is futile.

 

Keep us posted and thanks for the kudos:D

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Thank you so much-- and for the encouragement. This is even more helpful than you know.

 

Cheers. :)

 

My experience with this site has also been very good. Our friends and family can get sick and tired of our shaky love lives, and these forums provide good advice. I had been eavesdropping as a voyeur on the site for about a month until I decided to throw my hat into the ring.

 

You are writing long entries so you are investing and participating. I hope you reap the rewards.

 

I have two observations from the second chances forum: 1) Most of the posts are from dumpees, so it is biased, fairly obvious as we seek consolation. 2) I have noticed more men than women posting on these breakup threads.

 

To your dilemma---- You mentioned that your boyfriend has not experienced a relationship that lasted more than 2 months. I would assume that he is in his mid/late-20s. This is not very unusual. In your twenties, many people jump from one 2 month to a 3 month back to a 2 month "relationship" and never experience the conflicts, compromise, and mediation required in a long term relationships. However, if your boyfriend is in his 30s, this could be a commitment phobic individual.

 

In other words, don't overestimate your worthiness because of the 2 year longevity. It was bound to happen. He may want to go in another direction.

 

From your post, it doesn't seem that a large bomb was dropped a couple of weeks ago to instigate his indifference towards you. However, his disinterest in this relationship might have been brewing inside of him for months. It is difficult to know. Relationships are unpredictable. Longterm marriages are threatened as well.

 

If he is not passionate about meeting with you, then go No contact. I agree with Billy and Don. It doesn't look promising. Nevertheless, we don't know his state of mind, or his options. All we know is that he is not aggressively pursuing you.

 

You have made the effort to clarify your story and reach out for help. I applaud. However, I can not sugar coat.

 

Second chances are only possible if you ratchet up your attractiveness index in his eyes. Even then, sometimes it is futile.

 

Keep us posted and thanks for the kudos:D

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