Jump to content

Can a narcissist change?


SweetJulia

Recommended Posts

whichwayisup

No. Unfortunately they can't. Sadly, you are the one who has to do the changing and accepting if you are living with or having a relationship with an N.

 

Do a google on it and see what comes up. There is a good website that explains everything about them.

 

Keep posting though, I'm sure whatever your situation is, it isn't an easy one.

 

I know an N, my friend's husband...He's just a piece of work and they've had some pretty rough times.

 

Good luck.

Link to post
Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia
Originally posted by SweetJulia

Just wondering if a narcissist guy can change.

 

Only if he wants to, and puts some solid time and effort into getting the help he needs to learn to change the way he treats others.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They never basically change. Attempting to have a relationship with a narcissist can be a nightmare. You can never be right unless you are serving their needs and imposing no burdens on them. They take responsiblity for nothing. The give as little as possible and attempt to extract the maximum from you. They are emotionally unavailable for the most part, with an agenda if they decide to fake same. They have no ability to empathize. They are incredible actors with little understanding of the script.

 

If any person reading this is in a relationship with a narcissist, get out of it. It's a lost cause. I don't care how attractive the person is or what you think you are getting out of it you will be sorry in the long run because you will be a loser.

 

The ONLY person who can remain in a relationship with a narcissist is one with ZERO self esteem who is willing to give up his or her entire life to be humble and obedient host of the other. It just won't work.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

thanks for all your responses.

 

I am glad I am out of relationiship with a narcissist.

i can say it was a true nightmare.

i didn't know what was real and unreal, right or wrong anymore.

I almost committed suicide.

 

I gave all I had for this guy but got nothing in return, just heartache.

I'm a wreck.

 

he was pathological liar and cheater and I am/was too naive and gullable.

 

I have almost no self-esteem left but I don't think I will give up on life now.

i'm a very sensitive person and i find it hard all the cruel things he did to me.

 

I left him many times but he always manipulated his way back in my life.

I consider myself quite intelligent, I just don't understand how I could be fooled like that.

I guess i was addicted to him, and i was dependant.

 

he tried to contact me again 2 months ago and I told him to "stay the f**ck out of my life"

i don't usually talk like that but i knew i could not handle another round of craziness.

 

it is true what you say, the host thing, it is exactly that.

 

i am pretty bitter with relationships though.

this man had no heart and he broke mine forever.

 

i was just wandering if he would change in future, if with some other girlfriend, he would change or if he would always be evil.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has he been diagnosed as having a narcissistic disorder? I understand that it's a very difficult condition to treat effectively - especially as the individual's grandiose view of their own intelligence can make them inclined to treat therapy sessions as an intellectual wrestling match rather than as a possible means to self-improvement. Any on-line stuff I've read about this talks a lot about narcissistic supply sources - ie the people narcissists get involved with. I think it would be difficult to be a long term supply source to a full-blown narcissist and not emerge with a few emotional scars.

 

I've been in a relationship with someone who displayed a lot of narcissistic tendencies. He was never diagnosed, to my knowledge, but a friend who works in the psychiatric field was concerned about the relationship - particularly when he met my then boyfriend. This guy (the ex) was arrogant in an OTT way that really alienated other people, and he'd constantly portray himself as a genius strolling amongst pygmies. I thought it was an elaborate joke that other people didn't get - so I didn't take it at all seriously when I should have done, viewed it as a cover for insecurity, and tried to boost him up - frequently (with hindsight) at my own expense.

 

It's chilling when you realise that the person seriously does genuinely believe in (and adore to the exclusion of everything else) this ludicrous image they've spent their life working on. Digging beyond it to find out what really lies beneath is not the most rewarding experience. My experience, when I did eventually get close to seeing past the mask, was that he initially with something that looked like utter fear (he quite literally shrank away from me) followed very quickly by a sort of empty coldness and cruelty.

 

You'll lose the narcissist temporarily when they find someone who does a better job of pandering to their ego than you do. Once that goes wrong, they'll come back looking for you (as the literature says, seeking out old sources) if they think there's any prospect that they might still hold some power over you. The only sane thing to do is ignore them completely and utterly. Any sort of attention, even cutting comments or insults, is milk and honey to them.

 

I'm with Tony on this. Run away - don't walk.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No-he will never treat anyone better than he treated you....in the beginning, it is normal for the N to put on the charm and then before ya know it...he is a diff person. You did the right thing and he will not change until he wants to and most likely he does not even know that he is a N. he is most likely live a life of either being alone or jumping from one victim to the next.

 

AS someone else said...all a partner of a N does is feed their ego....

Link to post
Share on other sites
whichwayisup
thanks for all your responses.

 

I am glad I am out of relationiship with a narcissist.

i can say it was a true nightmare.

i didn't know what was real and unreal, right or wrong anymore.

I almost committed suicide.

 

I gave all I had for this guy but got nothing in return, just heartache.

I'm a wreck.

 

he was pathological liar and cheater and I am/was too naive and gullable.

 

I have almost no self-esteem left but I don't think I will give up on life now.

i'm a very sensitive person and i find it hard all the cruel things he did to me.

 

I left him many times but he always manipulated his way back in my life.

I consider myself quite intelligent, I just don't understand how I could be fooled like that.

I guess i was addicted to him, and i was dependant.

 

he tried to contact me again 2 months ago and I told him to "stay the f**ck out of my life"

i don't usually talk like that but i knew i could not handle another round of craziness.

 

it is true what you say, the host thing, it is exactly that.

 

i am pretty bitter with relationships though.

this man had no heart and he broke mine forever.

 

i was just wandering if he would change in future, if with some other girlfriend, he would change or if he would always be evil.

 

Please don't think you are naive or gullable. He just knew how to push the right buttons with you to get what he wanted. I'm sure he has feelings for you, but his mind - The way it works - couldn't process those feelings into a "normal" place. Do you know what I mean?

 

Hey, I think you're incredibly strong to have ended it. So what if it took longer, YOU now have a brand new life to start over with and find somebody better suited for you. Trust me, that person IS out there...When the right time comes.

 

Don't beat yourself up k, look at the positives now. He isn't in your life, his craziness is not around you anymore, that rollercoaster is finally over!!!

 

Don't let him break your heart forever. He has a disorder that cannot be fixed - So the next woman who he is with will have the same problems as he will never change.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't let him break your heart forever. He has a disorder that cannot be fixed - So the next woman who he is with will have the same problems as he will never change.

 

And if you consider this advice alongside Tony's post, you might well conclude that any woman who does succeed in maintaining a permanent intimate relationship with this guy may well do so at the expense of other important areas of her life...including her identity and her self respect.

 

There's no shame in you having developed strong feelings for this man. If you are a normal, properly functioning human being then you'll credit others with having normal levels of human empathy - which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do. As WWIU said, it's not gullible....and neither is it your fault if this guy turned out to have somewhat faulty wiring.

Link to post
Share on other sites
whichwayisup
Originally posted by lindya

 

 

And if you consider this advice alongside Tony's post, you might well conclude that any woman who does succeed in maintaining a permanent intimate relationship with this guy may well do so at the expense of other important areas of her life...including her identity and her self respect.

 

There's no shame in you having developed strong feelings for this man. If you are a normal, properly functioning human being then you'll credit others with having normal levels of human empathy - which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do. As WWIU said, it's not gullible....and neither is it your fault if this guy turned out to have somewhat faulty wiring.

 

Yup, and honestly, if you or anybody else CAN stay with an N, all the kudos to you! He's found somebody f**k'n awesome and is lucky to have that person in his life...(Or the other way around, there are female N's too)

 

I think you saw some good in him and hoped he could change. Nothing wrong with that, infact that just shows what a big heart you have. Look at yourself in a positive light and please, don't let this man ruin any chance of your happiness further in future. He isn't worth it. How to move on, get over him and live a happy life is to DO just so with or without therapy...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

ck guy:

 

did you find the breakup hard?

did you obsess over her?

 

i find it hard to move on.

i feel the scars will never heal.

 

even though i say to myself he was mean, cruel, selfish, and lots of other stuff.

 

i get tired of it all.

 

how long ago did you breakup and how are you feeling now?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

thanks which way is up and everyone else for your nice replies.

 

it really helps me.

 

i just can't way for the day he won't enter my thoughts anymore.

 

thanks again

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by Tony T

They never basically change. Attempting to have a relationship with a narcissist can be a nightmare. You can never be right unless you are serving their needs and imposing no burdens on them. They take responsiblity for nothing. The give as little as possible and attempt to extract the maximum from you. They are emotionally unavailable for the most part, with an agenda if they decide to fake same. They have no ability to empathize. They are incredible actors with little understanding of the script.

 

If any person reading this is in a relationship with a narcissist, get out of it. It's a lost cause. I don't care how attractive the person is or what you think you are getting out of it you will be sorry in the long run because you will be a loser.

 

 

Sad, but so true. Special dittos on the "nightmare" thing

 

DogBrain

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by SweetJulia

thanks for all your responses.

 

I am glad I am out of relationiship with a narcissist.

i can say it was a true nightmare.

i didn't know what was real and unreal, right or wrong anymore.

I almost committed suicide.

 

I gave all I had for this guy but got nothing in return, just heartache.

I'm a wreck.

 

he was pathological liar and cheater and I am/was too naive and gullable.

 

I have almost no self-esteem left but I don't think I will give up on life now.

i'm a very sensitive person and i find it hard all the cruel things he did to me.

 

I left him many times but he always manipulated his way back in my life.

I consider myself quite intelligent, I just don't understand how I could be fooled like that.

I guess i was addicted to him, and i was dependant.

 

he tried to contact me again 2 months ago and I told him to "stay the f**ck out of my life"

i don't usually talk like that but i knew i could not handle another round of craziness.

 

it is true what you say, the host thing, it is exactly that.

 

i am pretty bitter with relationships though.

this man had no heart and he broke mine forever.

 

i was just wandering if he would change in future, if with some other girlfriend, he would change or if he would always be evil.

 

I haven't read the rest of the posts but I almost fell on the floor when i read this. It sounds exactly like me, except mine left me for someone else. I don't know how to get past it but I guess I just wanted to say that you're not alone. You have to find a way to let him go, I mean really let him go. I know you don't want him anymore but you have to find a way to forgive him and let it go. It's so hard.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I read the rest of the thread. I had similar feelings to ck_guy and a similar experience to what everyone else described. I also got to the point when he was torturing me so much that I told him it was over. I wanted to work things out but he had his sights set on someone else for a while I believe. He was manipulating me into breaking up with him for a long time before I finally did it. It is such a difficult thing to go through. It does get better over time but it is a battle every day, even still. You probably had a very healthy self esteem when you met him and he's beaten you down to the point where you can't believe that you'll find anyone else and to the point where you've started to believe all of the things that he said were true. I couldn't wait for the day when I didn't cry over him anymore, all I wanted was one day. I still cry over this sometimes even though I know it was his problem and I deserved so much better because the relationship and it's effects were painful, not over him. BUT, I don't cry every day anymore and I try to forget it and distract myself as much as possible. I've been told that you have to treat this in the same way that someone has been abused has to be treated, to keep reinforcing that it wasn't your fault. So here's me giving you a big hug and telling you that I've been there, it gets better, and it's not your fault!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

i'm writing tonight because i'm having a really hard time.

i can't stop crying.

i try to do things but i can't.

 

i find life painful.

 

i don't know how to cope anymore.

 

all, the lies and all the rejection.

 

i findpeople cruel and ugly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

me too :(

i'm having a hard time today too.

i guess we'll both just have to remember that there's a great guy waiting out there for us that will make us forget about the guys that we're crying over.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by JS17

me too :(

i'm having a hard time today too.

i guess we'll both just have to remember that there's a great guy waiting out there for us that will make us forget about the guys that we're crying over.

 

Much love :love: to both you JS and SweetJulia. Some people can really screw with your heads but you are strong and can get through this time and be stronger for the journey. Learning to trust someone again and not be bitter is a huge task but it can be accomplished. You have to stay positive and not judge all people by your past. There is someone for you out there and they will take away the hurt and pain and fill you with love :love: and support.

 

They were not worthy of you...

Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks jhawks, my heart is totally broken. i don't see myself ever putting it back together.

sweetjulia....i don't want to let this guy take my life away from me, i don't think you do either.

Link to post
Share on other sites

SweetJulia & JS17,

 

I completely understand your pains. I had exactly the same experience in the past 2 months. The pains still feel so fresh. I questioned myself to hell everything I did and said, but finally realized that I did everything normal. He had manipulated me into believing that the whole breakup was all my fault, even though it was all due to his affair while we were planning to get married. He even made me to believe that it was me who pushed him over to the OM!

 

It's painfully hard, but it's all because you once gave them true love and respect, and expected the same from them. You are also too kind with them. This is not your fault. It's just that they would never really appreciate.

 

I have been moving on, by baby steps each day. And I'm sure you will, too. Be strong, and be good to yourself! You didn't really lose anything if you can step back and think for a while.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so far into the anger phase it's not even funny. I can't figure out why if he has narcissistic tendencies he was able to find the woman of his dreams so easily. He loves her and thinks she's wonderful and perfect. None of my friends liked him and my SW even thought he had narcissistic tendencies but I have to wonder if it was so easy for him if I am wrong about it and I'm the one with a problem. It kills me to know that he's doing so well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by JS17

I'm so far into the anger phase it's not even funny. I can't figure out why if he has narcissistic tendencies he was able to find the woman of his dreams so easily.

 

They say that narcissistic people often have a favoured few. That doesn't necessarily make life any easier for those people, though. My relationship with someone like that was a series of public humiliations. He viewed himself as some sort of VIP or celebrity (to clarify, there was absolutely no basis for that view), and he could make some strange scenes when he didn't get what he wanted. Bizarre tantrums and completely inappropriate comments - not aimed at me, but at other people who made their unimpressed feelings about him clear.

 

I was worried about him. Rather than attack him for being such an embarrassment, I thought the "right" thing to do was cope with the situations with as much grace as I could muster, have a quiet chat with him afterwards (he would always listen) and try my best to be supportive. I'd never heard of narcissistic personality disorder...and it's not really for me to say that he has it for sure. I just thought he was insecure and needed to have his confidence built up so that he wouldn't have to put up this silly, egotistical front.

 

For this, I was praised for being an exceptional and tolerant girlfriend. Nobody else would ever match up etc etc. You can so easily get sucked into that, put aside all your needs (other than that need to be the "perfect" partner, of course...) and lose sight of what a healthy relationship is supposed to be like.

 

I didn't realise it at the time, but me and my boundaries were being stretched to the absolute maximum. I ignored friends and relatives who repeatedly tried to tell me this. Towards the end of the relationship, he started requesting that I help him fulfil various fantasies, so I laid out rules about what I would and wouldn't do, and he questioned whether a relationship that "limited" him could continue. When I snapped and "screwed up" (slightly - and for reasons that most people would consider understandable) I was out. He was like a little kid who'd broken a toy, and wanted to punish it for not working any more.

 

Like your ex, he went into another relationship (someone he'd been sleeping with behind my back) - and care was taken to pass word onto me, through selected people, that this woman was definitely his soul mate. I felt as if all his dysfunctionalism had been dumped onto me... leaving him brand new, healthy and able to have a proper relationship at last.

 

Who knows...maybe your ex and my ex really have found their perfect women. I'm inclined to believe that although a leopard might paint over its spots, eventually the cracks and the peeling sets in. Meantime, you learn some important lessons about yourself from getting involved with someone like that. One of them is that whatever the rules of Christianity or "being a good person" might say, you really should only give so much to a partner before expecting something real back. And if you don't get it, you should cut them out of your life without further ado. There's no such thing as the perfect partner, but I doubt that either your ex or mine will ever be able to accept that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! My experience was fairly similar and he had a lot of insecurities. It was really good to hear (read) what you had to say!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Originally posted by JS17

Thanks! My experience was fairly similar and he had a lot of insecurities. It was really good to hear (read) what you had to say!

 

You're welcome :) Being the "perfect" woman for the narcissist is probably like being a counsellor who takes on a new patient that every other therapist has given up on. After a tricky start, the therapist feels as if she's passed some sort of unseen test. The patient has started to demonstrate a certain respect and liking for her, and explains to her why he's managed to develop a rapport with her that just wasn't there with the other therapists. She's able to challenge certain aspects of his thinking and behaviour - and he congratulates her on her incredible insight.

 

Time passes and they seem to be making really good progress together. :love: The patient is reporting all sorts of improvements in his life. Despite herself, the therapist swells up with professional pride for succeeding where all others failed. :cool: Then - BAM! One day she wears an unfortunate outfit that the patient takes a dislike to. He berates her for being a tasteless, tacky and stupid nobody...and storms out of her office never to return. He has, of course, already identified another therapist he'd like to try out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...