Update

[HeavenOrHell]

Well I finally laid my cards on the table with my ex last night, I wasn't planning on saying anything although I'd been writing an e-mail to him bit by bit recently, my last letter to him, saying how I feel etc etc, but not pleading or begging, I've never done that with anyone and never will as I know I would regret it and I have a lot of pride.

I've also been worrying that my worse nightmare was coming true and that he would end up going out with an ex friend of mine who has recently become single, he used to fancy her years ago, I cant explain it but she is the worse person, for me, that he could go out with, I think partly as she will get smug satisfaction from knowing what it will do to me, she's self centred, other people can see it but my ex can't.

Anyway I said how I feel, how horrible the last 6 months have been, I said was it purely because of my neglect that he left, (so many people have said to me there's usually more than one reason), but he said yes it was just that (that's about the 4th time I've asked him the last few months, before and after the split).

I said did you really think I'd be over you in 2 weeks? He said yes before he left he said he thought I'd be sad for a couple of weeks and then I'd be ok. I said I don't think our low self esteem has helped us, I said I feel he probably hasn't missed me and he looked at me as if to say how ridiculous and said that he has found it really hard and really missed me.

He does fancy this ex friend of mine amongst others, but he also said he's not sure he's ready for a relationship. He said he felt awkward talking about it to me as it's private. Ugh.

I said so you didn't just stop fancying me then, he said no he left because he thought I didn't love or need him anymore

I said how frustrating it was he was so so wrong, and how it feels like torture for me that he can't/won't let me/us put things right having learnt from our mistakes.

I said I'd reached the point where I didn't know if I could be friends, and he looked taken aback, he said he understands, but made it clear he really wants to see me if possible, but not if it will be painful for me. I said I can't bear to watch him meet someone else.

I said feel pathetic still feeling like this, he said it's not pathetic at all that it's only been 6 months and he feels like it hasn't been that long since the break up too, ie it's still difficult for him.

The irony is he left as he no longer felt important, but says it's nice that he is so important to me still but also wishes he wasn't because then it would be easier for me to be friends.

The killer is him fancying this woman, who was a friend of mine, ugh, she's always been my worst nightmare, feels like it's coming true now. I'm not the only one who sees these not so nice sides to her. And knowing he will probably say stuff to her about us.

If he says to her I still love him, she will twist things and tell him not to doubt that he's done the right thing in leaving. She will say everything in HER favour, not mine.

Just after he left me, I said to her I'm worried he will end up with her and she said she couldn't say it would never happen, and I'm thinking but you're my friend! WTF! When I said to her I hope we can rebuild she put barriers down about it and stamped on my hope, all for her own benefit I guess. I said but it's not going to help us if there IS any hope if someone is hovering in the sidelines (her) and she said but wouldn't it just mean things weren't right between you still. Argh! Just f*** off! She was totally unhelpful.

She's never been dumped.

She's playing the vulnerable card with my ex though as, poor her, she's just left her long term gf and wants to be with a man now.

I said did you leave me for her and he said no. I do believe him.

I'm just bloody frustrated over the reasons he left, because that could so easily be put right, now I have to step aside while he falls in love with someone else.

And I still can't let go and not see him because I love spending time with him, but also now I feel if I walk away there will definitely never be any hope for us, no hope of getting closer, I feel he's more likely to go with someone else if I'm not around.

I know I know

I said I think it's quite a unique thing to be totally yourself with a partner, ie farts and all, haha! He said he thinks it's quite rare too and that he misses that. I said imagine if we both have other partners but we're still more ourselves with each other than we are with them, he said yes they might get jealous!!

Well looks like that ex friend of mine is going to get the one thing I want, she usually gets what she wants.

It was good to talk about it last night, I have mixed feelings of course. Mostly frustration, because of him leaving thinking I didn't love or need him (so wrong it's untrue) but also surprise over how hard he's found it and how much I still mean to him.

I got answers to some of the things I wanted to know, which was good, ie I had it in my mind that he'd left now that he has more self esteem and had replaced me with 'better' friends and he he made it clear that's not the case (and that his self esteem is still low), I asked if he'd left partly cos of my social anxiety. No.

I said I was thinking about moving away so I didn't have to bump into him and his next gf, he tried to put me off, I thought he might like the idea, makes it easier for him to be with someone else, but he seems to want me to stick around.

I feel proud of myself for talking about it all even though it was difficult.

He said would I like to come over next week.

You know what my answer was:o

[ann09]

I have read many of your posts and know what this guy means to you. I hope you have some closure - I hope it helps you heal somewhat. I know the pain you're going through. hugs.

[HeavenOrHell]

Thanks Ann, well I got the answers to some questions at least, but still feel he's the love of my life.

I don't really understand why his feelings totally died, if I'd continued to neglect him well fair enough but I tried to turn things around and show him.

This wasn't a relationship where you're just not compatible, or row or cheat, nothing like that.

I dont know if his low self esteem comes into it, ie couldn't take onboard that I did still love and need him, he comes from a violent, abusive childhood which doesn't help.

I'm very lost.

[Ms. Joolie]

Soooo happy to hear you had this kind of open, honest and REAL conversation with him! Congrats! It took such strength and courage to get there!

 

Enough can't be said about being real in our conversations. I lose track myself. But aren't they a relief??

 

This kind of self-expression, this kind of communication, is what we all deserve - from ourselves and from others.

 

 

Anyway.... so when you see him next week let me suggest one thing:

 

Seduce him.

[nobmagnet]

oh baby...............

 

Firstly a massive hug it really took courage to do what you did. It really was time to say it and I completely understand your loss and confusion right now because you didnt hear what you wanted to .......BUT what you did was brave and needed to be said. There is no way on earth he didnt go home and really think about what you said and still is. It sound patronising for me to say this but because I know you.........I am so bloody proud of you because i understand you a little.

 

Forget this other woman. Even if he goes there it wont last long. Lowly has been dumped and i could have predicted it. You had a really strong bond and a connection for 18 years, he aint gonna forget that either and with his self esteem issues he aint thinking as clearly as he might. A week with her and he will see past her evil ways because he aint dim lovexx

 

hugs hugs

 

Nobby xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[GrayClouds]

 

You know what my answer was:o

 

I am sorry HoH that you have made such little ground on moving on.

 

It seems this conversion you initiated was not for finding a conclusion. Everything in that conversation you already know; most importantly the relationship is over and he has moved on.

 

It seems more like you imitated to give you reason to deny the truth and still hold on. A reason to validity your pain and find some rational for you not to move on.

 

Your EX is being nice to you and your seeing it as hope. It reminds me of Jim Carry movie where he ask a girl out and she says no, never. He ask if he had any chance. She says like one chance in a million. And he get all excited because he has a chance. You ask him if he misses you, do you really think he will say yes to your face even if it was true. Like Jim your fishing for hope not trying to move on. I am so sorry HoH but it is over.

 

If your worst nightmare is him with that woman, why are you demanding a front row seat to watch it?

 

Your worst nightmare should not be about him, of who he is with, but that you do not start building your new life. That your days are spent thinking about what you had with someone else rather then what you want for yourself.

 

Your good of a person to be stuck in this place.

Edited February 4, 2010 by GrayClouds

[HeavenOrHell]

GC, he said yes that he does miss me, I know that doesn't mean he wants me back, it means he misses my company.

He wants to stay in touch and looks worried if I say I don't know if I can.

I wont be able to avoid him and his next gf even with NC, our town is tiny, which is why I said I am considering moving away even though I really don't want to, he gave me a load of reasons why I shouldn't move.

Yes he's just being friendly, but he genuinely wants me in his life still, as a friend.

[HeavenOrHell]

Thanks hun I didn't know I was going to say it, it just sort of came out in the end, it was stuff I was going to say in that email I've been thinking about sending.

I feel relieved for saying it, even if some of the answers were not ones I wanted to hear.

I feel I can be honest with him now about all this.

:lol:@ the seducing! Well he'd either run a mile, or not, not sure I have the courage, it would be kill or cure though wouldn't it:D

 

 

Soooo happy to hear you had this kind of open, honest and REAL conversation with him! Congrats! It took such strength and courage to get there!

 

Enough can't be said about being real in our conversations. I lose track myself. But aren't they a relief??

 

This kind of self-expression, this kind of communication, is what we all deserve - from ourselves and from others.

 

 

Anyway.... so when you see him next week let me suggest one thing:

 

Seduce him.

[HeavenOrHell]

Thanks neet, your support means a lot to me hun

 

oh baby...............

 

Firstly a massive hug it really took courage to do what you did. It really was time to say it and I completely understand your loss and confusion right now because you didnt hear what you wanted to .......BUT what you did was brave and needed to be said. There is no way on earth he didnt go home and really think about what you said and still is. It sound patronising for me to say this but because I know you.........I am so bloody proud of you because i understand you a little.

 

Forget this other woman. Even if he goes there it wont last long. Lowly has been dumped and i could have predicted it. You had a really strong bond and a connection for 18 years, he aint gonna forget that either and with his self esteem issues he aint thinking as clearly as he might. A week with her and he will see past her evil ways because he aint dim lovexx

 

hugs hugs

 

Nobby xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[GrayClouds]

GC, he said yes that he does miss me, I know that doesn't mean he wants me back, it means he misses my company.

He wants to stay in touch and looks worried if I say I don't know if I can.

I wont be able to avoid him and his next gf even with NC, our town is tiny, which is why I said I am considering moving away even though I really don't want to, he gave me a load of reasons why I shouldn't move.

Yes he's just being friendly, but he genuinely wants me in his life still, as a friend.

 

 

Yes he wants his cake and eat it too. He wants to have inmate sexual relationships with other people while not having to feel the discomfort of actually letting you go. It is perfect he keeps his wife and gets to have a girlfriend. You get to be combination of security blanket and ego booster all in one.

 

HoH he is genuinely the smartest, most selfish or fullest of $hit man ever. Maybe the perfect combination of it all. He is saying to you "I want you to continue to suffer and allow me watch it becouse it make me feel more secure while me move on to a whole new life. I will would feel bad if you did not have a front row set for all of it."

 

It is hard to see reality when it is fogged up with pain but this "friendship" is holding you back from happiness. Start being kind to yourself:

 

http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/part_14.html

 

 

 

.

[Ms. Joolie]

:lol:@ the seducing! Well he'd either run a mile, or not, not sure I have the courage, it would be kill or cure though wouldn't it:D

 

I honestly believe what he wants is for a woman to take charge, to be so secure and so confident in knowing what she wants that it will ease his own insecurities.

 

If you were to find the courage and the confidence to treat him seductively, it would give him the impression of just that: you've changed, and he can feel secure now.

 

If I were you....

 

I'd so seduce him. And I'd make up my mind now to leave town.

 

 

The thought process behind that is this: I'd show him that I wanted him, but he's not stopping my life. You need to get away from him, but not before you show him what you want. Show him!

[GrayClouds]

I honestly believe what he wants is for a woman to take charge, to be so secure and so confident in knowing what she wants that it will ease his own insecurities.

 

If you were to find the courage and the confidence to treat him seductively, it would give him the impression of just that: you've changed, and he can feel secure now.

 

If I were you....

 

I'd so seduce him. And I'd make up my mind now to leave town.

 

 

The thought process behind that is this: I'd show him that I wanted him, but he's not stopping my life. You need to get away from him, but not before you show him what you want. Show him!

 

But he all ready knows ...

[Ms. Joolie]

But he all ready knows ...

 

No he doesn't. She's cried to him and talked things out.... but what is that? She's still crying about what happened instead of making it happen!

 

 

sorry, HoH. Don't mean to sound rude, but this is the deal now from my POV.

 

 

Meanwhile, there's another woman seducing her man! She's letting someone else capture his attention while she watches and does nothing but cry about 'what happened.' She does nothing now to make what she wants to happen, happen!

 

Sometimes I get caught up with myself in a dark place, but to get out I just need a little light, I just need to see a way out.

 

I see this as her way out. If she were to take visible action toward wanting him, he could see that, accept it if he wants to. All she is doing is showing what she wants physically. How he responds doesn't matter. Either way is good, because she'll be able to move on from there.

 

I'm a firm believer in doing something and not just sitting with the same thoughts and doing nothing.

[Ms. Joolie]

HoH,

 

You've got one life to live. Are you going to continue crying and depressing yourself about 'what happened' or are you going to do things now to make things happen?

 

In ten years, what are you going to want to have done? Tried everything you could or just cry on the sidelines or just leave town without any effort at all?

 

Give it all you got. You've only got one life.

 

 

That's so the way I see it.

[XKatieX]

Have you tried the all or nothing approach?

 

I mean, he obviously wants you around because he knows you care about him, and likes the idea of you being there..but that isn't just what you want, you want more..and you can't live like that, no one can live like that. I would be blunt with him and say either you want me and all of me, or you can't have me at all. Lay it all down on the table, if you feel like you need to get away..or move, do it.

 

It seems to me if someone felt they weren't loved or neglected, and was proven wrong..which you definitely seemed to do, they would come back if they truly loved you in the first place.

[Odyssey]

OP, sorry to hear your situation so far. I think it's ironic that he felt neglected enough to break up...it could have been fixed if you only knew (were there signs?) It's a shame. Too late now. Sometimes in life we only get one chance huh?

 

Anyway, i got nothing to add, but your update certainly made me think about my past relationships.

[mickleb]

Ms. Joolie -

 

You are an outspoken lady.

 

I shall honour this by following suit:

 

I fink someone's gone mental.

 

 

x

[Ms. Joolie]

 

I fink someone's gone mental.

 

 

Oh, thank goodness, it's about time. Usually I'm emotional.

 

 

[HeavenOrHell]

Can I ask what made you say I should try seducing him? I think rejection would be pretty likely

 

 

Oh, thank goodness, it's about time. Usually I'm emotional.

 

 

[Ms. Joolie]

Can I ask what made you say I should try seducing him? I think rejection would be pretty likely

 

I just think it's time to send him a new message. I think it'd be a good idea for you to feel attractive, available and desirable again.

 

In fact, I like the idea now of staying in town. You don't have to stick around watching him have all the fun. You could sooo have fun with this. Get to dating again, and be very public about it. lol

 

It's your new life, HoH! Do what you have to do to feel like you again. Date. Go out. Have fun. Be a new you.

 

 

Because what you are doing now just isn't working. Isn't it time to switch things up?

[GrayClouds]

Can I ask what made you say I should try seducing him? I think rejection would be pretty likely

 

Or better advice would be hit yourself over the head repeatedly with a hammer. It will accomplish the same results and be far less painful.

 

Playing games to win someone over is never a bases for a solid foundation of a relationship. It can be very exciting but sooner or later the games stop and so will the discovery that what was holding the two together was manufactured melodrama rather then genuine intimacy.