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Did she cheat? Part II


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Summary: a girl I love deeply, and was seeing long-distance but not official with, recently admitted to me that she has been having sex with someone else. I'm wondering if it qualifies as cheating.

 

I was 'seeing' a girl for the past 6 months. By 'seeing' I mean there was no official label to our relationship. We didn't refer to each other as bf/gf. I purposely kept it this way, because she was getting out of a marriage and I didn't want to pressure her into a new relationship.

 

The ongoing uncertainty as to what we were, our status, bothered her. She even told me it did. I never pushed the matter or took the opportunity to set the relationship.

 

I am in NYC, she is in DC. Our weekends together (once/6 weeks) were extremely physical and passionate, but in the downtime, I wasn't doing my part to communicate more regularly. I would sometimes (though not often) go for 2-3 days without texting her.

 

She told me this wasn't going to fly, several times, and asked me to be more emotionally supportive if this was going to work. I dismissed that, because I am not an emotional man, but also because I was afraid of over-communicating. Her investment into me was not being fairly returned. My intention to be somewhat aloof and mysterious to maintain her attraction was actually slowly driving her away.

 

Despite all this, I was under the belief that there was an unspoken bond and sanctity between us. The intimacy we shared, I felt, gave us that bond even if we (I) never labeled it. It was a romantic, sexual relationship.

 

She recently revealed to me that 2 weeks ago she had begun seeing someone in DC. Someone physically there, emotionally available, "mushy" as she described and everything she had repeatedly asked me to be. She did not reveal this to end things with me, but to be honest about what was going on and express confusion about who she preferred.

 

I immediately ended things. I am devastated. I've known her since college (we are in our 30s) and I am madly, madly in love with her.

 

I know this was the consequence of my neglecting her emotional needs, on an ongoing basis. I know I partially deserve this.

 

But, is what she did cheating? Infidelity? Betrayal? Yes I realize it's understandable and I know why she did it. I am willing to forgive her and I want her back. In other words, does this qualify for an ex-back campaign?

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You aren't exclusive so she and you can see anyone you want.

 

You aren't madly in love or you'd have shown it.

 

Someone else stepped in and now you want her back.

 

Sounds like you aren't relationship material. Especially LDR

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d0nnivain

No it's not cheating. She could not cheat on you because she has never dated you.

 

You claim to love her. Does she know that? You never called what you have bf/gf. She saw you as a FWB, a way to let off steam as she got divorced. She has zero interest in settling down, at least not with you. Even if it's not cheating it is a clear signal that you two have different goals.

 

On your next trip to DC I think you need to lay it on the line. Tell her how much you care about her & that you hoped you two could finally have a committed relationship. Fessing up can't hurt. It may be your last & only chance to save this. You can't continue as is having NSA sex because your heart already attached strings. If she doesn't want exclusivity with you, you have to walk away.

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No it's not cheating. She could not cheat on you because she has never dated you.

 

You claim to love her. Does she know that? You never called what you have bf/gf. She saw you as a FWB, a way to let off steam as she got divorced. She has zero interest in settling down, at least not with you. Even if it's not cheating it is a clear signal that you two have different goals.

 

On your next trip to DC I think you need to lay it on the line. Tell her how much you care about her & that you hoped you two could finally have a committed relationship. Fessing up can't hurt. It may be your last & only chance to save this. You can't continue as is having NSA sex because your heart already attached strings. If she doesn't want exclusivity with you, you have to walk away.

 

Thank you for your reply. Yes I told her I loved her, but too late, after she told me the truth, and after I had told her we were done. She said she loved me too and will continue to love me.

 

Thing is now, if we patch things up and give it a second chance as a formal couple, now there's this other guy in the picture competing with me for her affection, and he has the advantage of being there physically and having the most recent emotional and sexual connection with her. I failed to build a connection with her strong enough to resist another man, so what makes me think I can suddenly do this now when he's already there? I've come to realize that the damage has been done and I need to face the consequences. Or that we were never meant to be a long-term couple.

 

As painful as it is, I think I need to let this go for the time being. It's not the first hiatus we've taken in the 15 years we've known each other. We seem to always eventually reconnect. I was going to send her an email apologizing for not being what she needed, telling her I'm not mad because she technically didn't cheat, and tell her I want her to be happy in DC but that the bridge between us is still there. And I was then going to fire my dating profiles back up and hit the bars this weekend.

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You aren't exclusive so she and you can see anyone you want.

 

You aren't madly in love or you'd have shown it.

 

Someone else stepped in and now you want her back.

 

Sounds like you aren't relationship material. Especially LDR

 

I appreciate your candid, frank reply. Thanks. I am madly in love with her, but just took her affection for granted.

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d0nnivain
Yes I told her I loved her, but too late, after she told me the truth, and after I had told her we were done.

 

You kind of went about that backwards. You should have told her you loved her before you told her you were done.

 

Thing is now, if we patch things up and give it a second chance as a formal couple, now there's this other guy in the picture competing with me for her affection, and he has the advantage of being there physically and having the most recent emotional and sexual connection with her. I failed to build a connection with her strong enough to resist another man, so what makes me think I can suddenly do this now when he's already there? I've come to realize that the damage has been done and I need to face the consequences. Or that we were never meant to be a long-term couple.

 

As painful as it is, I think I need to let this go for the time being. It's not the first hiatus we've taken in the 15 years we've known each other. We seem to always eventually reconnect. I was going to send her an email apologizing for not being what she needed, telling her I'm not mad because she technically didn't cheat, and tell her I want her to be happy in DC but that the bridge between us is still there. And I was then going to fire my dating profiles back up and hit the bars this weekend.

 

You are kind of contradicting yourself here. You think you will eventually reconnect but you acknowledge that especially due to the distance your bind is not that strong. I'd rule out getting back until you can date conventionally in the same city.

 

I think backing off for a few weeks is the best move but reaching out with a truly friendly message later would be OK. Nothing flirty just newsy & light.

 

As for hitting the bars this weekend . . . not the best plan. You are in no frame of mind to date. So unless you are looking for a rebound ONS what is the point? Take some time. Lick your wounds. Rebalance yourself & then start to date. I'd give yourself until at least Memorial Day weekend before you get back out there.

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You kind of went about that backwards. You should have told her you loved her before you told her you were done.

 

 

 

You are kind of contradicting yourself here. You think you will eventually reconnect but you acknowledge that especially due to the distance your bind is not that strong. I'd rule out getting back until you can date conventionally in the same city.

 

I think backing off for a few weeks is the best move but reaching out with a truly friendly message later would be OK. Nothing flirty just newsy & light.

 

As for hitting the bars this weekend . . . not the best plan. You are in no frame of mind to date. So unless you are looking for a rebound ONS what is the point? Take some time. Lick your wounds. Rebalance yourself & then start to date. I'd give yourself until at least Memorial Day weekend before you get back out there.

 

You're right. And I think that's a good idea, to give it a little time so I can heal a bit, then send her a friendly message not to flirt, or ask more questions, or 'get closure' but just to let her know a bridge is still between us.

 

I'm turning 35 and I think the drunk ONS with bar flies are a part of my past and won't give me the solace I seek. You're right again.

 

And I honestly have found your replies and honesty to be a huge source of comfort. Thank you so much, who ever you are. I appreciate it.

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It's a loss, but you were not exclusive and had no commitment, so it wasn't cheating. She likely assumed you were also dating others.

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Orokotikki

Ugh. Actually I think was cheating, on her BF (not you).

Run far from this, you don't need it and while you are invested in this half ___ whatever you call it, you will not be able to find something real and worthwhile.

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It's a loss, but you were not exclusive and had no commitment, so it wasn't cheating. She likely assumed you were also dating others.

 

A few things stuck out to me thinking back on it -- she noticed a woman's hair tie in my apartment, which was left there from a previous relationship. She mentioned it to me the night we broke up, but not confrontationally. It was "what about that hair tie on your cork board ;)"

 

There was also a night where she asked me what I was doing, I told her I was watching a movie. She asked me which movie I had decided on watching. I didn't see her text until 2 hours later, and texted her I had seen The Conjuring, which I had confused with Oculus in my mind. Both dumb horror movies. They all kind of meld together. She noted that I had already seen The Conjuring "wait -- I thought you saw The Conjuring already? You were telling me about it." I replied "whoops, I meant Oculus."

 

Basically to her, I had a girl over and lied about seeing a movie.

 

The next day was the day she said she went on the first date with her new guy.

 

Goddamnit.

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ExpatInItaly
But, is what she did cheating? Infidelity? Betrayal? Yes I realize it's understandable and I know why she did it. I am willing to forgive her and I want her back. In other words, does this qualify for an ex-back campaign?

 

Nope, none of the above.

 

There is also nothing to "forgive" her for, as she did nothing wrong. Your sense of entitlement here is misplaced.

 

Unfortunately, you blew your chance. She moved on. I don't know where you got the idea that being "aloof" was the way to win over a woman, but you can see that it was completely arse-backwards. Time to let it go; she has already started doing so.

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salparadise

Why are you so damn obsessed with labeling this as cheating given that you wouldn't label her as your girlfriend? Sorry dude, but you are not a victim. You over estimated your sexual voodoo, and underestimated her ability to find a fulfilling relationship wherein her needs are met.

 

I think you have self-work to do. You're basically trying to have your cake and eat it too... playing it safe by holding people at arms length, avoiding vulnerability, and then feeling hurt and victimized when you reap what you sew.

 

I'm not trying to be mean. I know you're hurting and taking the loss pretty hard. I just think that you need to delve into your stuff and figure out why you are so afraid. Your ability to love is equal to your ability to tolerate vulnerability, which in your case is not much.

 

Brené Brown Wisdom

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DC and NYC are very close. But you only managed to see each other every 6 weekends, which means you had seen each other like 4 times during those 6 months you were sort of dating?

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I have no idea how being aloof and mysterious, cold and distant, leaving her guessing, implying you have other options and generally looking like you do not give a damn, is somehow going to increase attraction?

 

She thought you didn't care, she thought you were seeing other women and she rightly chose to move on to a man who does give a damn.

 

You need to rethink your strategies with women.

It is difficult for some to "open up", but you are going to have to do that if you want a real relationship with a woman.

Here you treated her like a FWB that you didn't particularly like.

She asked you for a "label" and more affection, more closeness, more emotion, more love, more "mushiness", but you decided to repeatedly ignore that request.

She found someone she liked better...

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You're right. And I think that's a good idea, to give it a little time so I can heal a bit, then send her a friendly message not to flirt, or ask more questions, or 'get closure' but just to let her know a bridge is still between us.

 

You're welcome. Sending her a last message is not going to help you. Closure comes from within, not the other person. If that person had the words to heal you, presumably communication would have been such that you never broke up in the 1st place.

 

Leave her be. She's far away. Chalk the break up to the distance & her situation (going through a divorce). Concentrate on dating somebody local & available. When you meet her, go slowly, especially emotionally.

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Why are you so damn obsessed with labeling this as cheating given that you wouldn't label her as your girlfriend? Sorry dude, but you are not a victim. You over estimated your sexual voodoo, and underestimated her ability to find a fulfilling relationship wherein her needs are met.

You're not being mean. I need to hear this. I need the tough love and I am really grateful for it.

 

I've come to realize that I didn't deserve her affection, and she ended up doing what was best for her. I was just too stuck in my invulnerable player mentality and it caused me to blow a chance with a girl I truly, truly loved. I didn't see it until it was too late. Unfortunately, sometimes true growth can only come from the really hard lessons.

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I have no idea how being aloof and mysterious, cold and distant, leaving her guessing, implying you have other options and generally looking like you do not give a damn, is somehow going to increase attraction?

 

You are right. I wasn't returning her efforts, so I didn't deserve them. I was really selfish. And I appreciate the candid, frank, brutal honesty which is why I came here to LS. I felt I could get honest responses from anonymous people and not just the same old "you're a great guy, you'll find someone better" etc etc that I've been getting from my female friends and male buddies.

 

Thank you so much for your reply. This is what I needed to begin my growth from here. And if I ever love a woman again, I will make sure she knows it.

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Chalk the break up to the distance & her situation (going through a divorce). Concentrate on dating somebody local & available. When you meet her, go slowly, especially emotionally.

 

Yes, I'll chalk the breakup to the distance, her situation, and my overall emotional immaturity. I always prefer seeing these situations in terms of things that I can change and improve. I'm not a victim here, I'll consider myself a student who just learned a tough lesson, but I'll become a better man for it. I won't take my relationships for granted.

 

Thank you again, for your ear, feedback, and support. I deeply appreciate it.

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There is also nothing to "forgive" her for, as she did nothing wrong. Your sense of entitlement here is misplaced.

 

Arrogance, I think. My own arrogance.

 

Thank you for your reply.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I posted the backstory previously, and I appreciate all those who took the time to read and reply. It gave me a lot of comfort. Thanks.

 

For anyone else:

 

I saw a woman long-distance (her in DC, me in NYC) for about 5 months. She had just gotten out of a marriage that I had played a part in undoing (we kissed once while she was married).

 

We spent 4 weekends together during this period. The weekends were extremely passionate, physical, and close. In the downtime apart, we texted most days like bf/gf but I would sometimes act aloof and distant, and go 2-3 days without contacting her, which she said bothered her. I was generally investing less into the communication than she was but always replied to her texts, and reached out to her 2-3 times per week. We never had the 'talk' and there was never a verbal confirmation of our status or the expectations. However, we would call each other "just to hear your voice" and make plans to take trips and do things etc. So it felt like a relationship.

 

After a 2-week stretch of spotty communication, she told me that she had been seeing another man in DC who was more nurturing, emotionally open, and boyfriend material. Basically, I wasn't making her feel understood and appreciated, the distance was tough for her to deal with, so she went to another guy. Fine, okay I understand why she moved on and I accept it and my fault in the outcome.

 

What I'm having some trouble is is this: prior to my last visit to her in DC, some things stuck out. We had sort of been on bad terms that week, and she texted me Friday morning 'hey not sure if you're still coming, we haven't really spoken this week.' I said I was, and she asked me to come after 9PM so she could 'clean up her apartment.' She was then suspiciously insistent on using a condom that evening, when she was on the pill and I had been cleared for STD's. We had never once used a condom, although she did mention that me ejaculating repeatedly into her vagina gave her irritation and yeast infections (we would have sex 9-10 times during on these weekends). But she was really adamant about it that evening which wasn't ordinary. I ended up taking it off mid-act and condoms were never brought up again. There were a few other signs that indicate she was guilty, and that she had possibly slept with someone very recently before my visit. She denied it when I asked, I remember her averting her eyes with a quiet 'no.'

 

Do I have reason to be suspicious, and if she did indeed see another man before me, is this cheating? And, should I be concerned about her giving me a 'present' from this guy?

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I know I am, but this is somewhat key to my closure and moving on. Did I blow a chance with a great girl because I was being a crappy lover, or did I dodge a bullet not getting more involved with a cheater?

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It seems from what I have read, you blew your chance. Everything you write seems to be about “I.” It seems she found what she was looking for and moved on. Unless you were in a committed relationship, she didn’t cheat.

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healing light

RJC, I'm gonna go against the grain here. If you have liked this woman for over 15 years, all the talks she had with you were basically her begging you to step up emotionally rather than being cold and distant. I do not see her as a cheater for insisting that you wear a condom, especially if she is experiencing irritation and you accidentally gave her the impression you were sleeping with another woman (the hair tie, movie stuff).

 

If she is not in an exclusive relationship with the new guy, you need to do what you haven't done before and actually go out on a limb to win her back. Don't be cowardly and distant and cold--that's what you did to drive her away. Don't pine from afar. Step up. Pursue her, tell her how you feel, give her commitment. It may be too late based on how far in she is with the other man or if she generally thinks you are now incapable of it.

 

If this were just some random woman that you demonstrated you could move on from, I would advise you differently. But you appear to have always liked her and you blew it by acting like you felt like the complete opposite of how you did. If she stated she would always love you, too, I think you have absolutely nothing to lose by extending yourself one more time. If nothing else so that you could at least put to rest the "what if."

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