Maybe he wants me to end it??

[Joan621]

I have been with my boyfriend for 14.5 years. Over the last six months, I have been consumed with guilt and doubt. The trigger was that he got a DUI. The DUI was brought on by my broaching the topic of having kids. He didn't handle it well because he was depressed and down on himself at the time, and we had agreed not to have kids years ago (I just started having a change of heart). I resisted bringing the topic up for a couple of months because of his depression and my fear of his reaction, but his depression and my concerns over the topic were causing me distress too and it was causing a distance to grow between us. I finally decided I had to bring it up and that it shouldn't be a real problem to discuss it after 14 years together. He an emotional wreck the following few weeks, and go the DUI on a night he knew I was with a friend discussing the topic of having children. The DUI caused me to have an emotional breakdown. The relationship flashed before my eyes and at the end of the day, I was left feeling numb. I didn't recover so I started seeing a therapist about a month later. My boyfriend was understandably upset by all of this, but insisted that the DUI had cured his depression and that the only thing making him sad was me and my new doubts about the relationship.

 

In therapy, I reflected a lot on the history of the relationship. To make a long story somewhat short, I realize that I did subjugate a lot of myself to make things work. I decided not to pursue certain career interests I had before we started dating because they weren't compatible with his lifestyle. We moved for me to go to school and I didn't want to stay in the city after graduation because I couldn't find meaningful work there, but I took a job I never wanted anyway because he didn't want to go and even said at one point not leaving might be more important than the relationship (he went so far as to buy a house during this period and told me we couldn't move for at least a year because of it). I did not lose my cool when I should have on a number of occasions when he went out drinking and binged to the point I had to clean up after him or otherwise take care of him (or deal with bad verbal fights). I just told myself it wasn't a problem because it didn't happen every week or even every month (though I never felt comfortable with how much he would drink when we were out). *I also assumed he would grow out of it - oops. The romance died after about a year or two, and it bothered me, but I didn't make a fuss. He said I bred it out of him. He didn't help with cleaning the house and I had to do all the yard work. His response to me asking him to help out was negative (he didn't like the way I asked), so I usually didn't because it wasn't worth the tension. He is always right in arguments and I just let it be or cave in because I struggle to communicate with him. I told myself this was all good because we didn't fight as a result and we enjoyed each other's company and I always felt like I could do worse. He has a lot of good qualities and I chose to focus on those instead, telling myself all of these things were trivial. Then a few years ago, he pushed me to move back home for a job because I hadn't been happy for ten years in the city we relocated to. I got a great job and went home and for the first time was passionate about my work and was finally making friends of my own. It took him a year to come out. He was very supportive at first. He wanted to buy a house because I was so happy so we went 50/50 on a house I couldn't afford on my own. When he did, it was a struggle for him to find a good job. When he found one, he quit in week two because he already wasn't happy and he wanted to try something new. I supported that by not getting mad (I didn't have a choice over his decision). He tried starting a career in real estate. It was rocky at first, started to go good, then went bad when he impulsively switched agencies. In the meantime, I have paid for almost everything *for over a year and am feeling stressed as I go through savings. Over the last year, I have become increasingly annoyed at him not helping with the house, still drinking a lot when we go out (he is 40 and still had some whopper nights), and at his negative outlook on life, which is something that has always existed. Things were starting to feel less and less right. Then he became more depressed after a trip visiting the city we had left and while we were there, he was happier than I had seen him in years and he was SO upset that I was making him leave. After the DUI, he still had a couple drunk nights. I can't deal with him having more than two drinks at this point. Since I imploded, I get a strong sense that he is now waiting for me to figure it out because he is certain we are to stay together. He did say the day after the DUI he was depressed and needed to go to a doctor and maybe talk to someone. He was understanding about me not forgiving him right away. The day after, he said I was not supportive by being upset still. A week later, he said he was totally fine except for my doubts.

 

The tension came to a head six weeks ago and I left the house because I realized I needed space because I had been miserable and stuck for a few months. The therapy is great, but I still can't talk to him about how I feel. I am still living apart from him and we talk once every few days. We started going to a couples counselor and so far, that has just made it evident to me that he isn't doing anything to help himself and that he thinks nothing (major) is wrong with him because I have the doubts. Although I pay for everything, I am the one who left and the house is so dirty now that I am gone I get stressed just walking in the door.*

 

Seeing him like this fills me with overwhelming guilt. Finally I did something for myself by taking the job and moving, and it hasn't worked out well for him and I feel tremendously guilty about it, especially since the relationship no longer feels right and I can't point to a specific event or thing. I feel like I ruined his life and he will allude to how much he gave up to move and stay with me. I feel bad that I realize I may have some co-dependency in how I have always put him first, and now feel guilty for putting myself first, and that I didn't realize it sooner and do something sooner to potentially spare him the move and 14 years with me if I end up leaving. The problem now is I love him, but I feel burned out and don't know how I can fix things with him right now given how the root of this all started. I may need to be on my own for awhile to determine what I really want and need. I just feel like this isn't fair to him and that I am being unreasonable. I am looking for input from people who have had similar experiences, or who just have opinions about this. *

[Superchicken]

You need to get him to seek help.

It sounds like maybe he's suffering from depression.

 

 

At the end of the day, you need to have a little distance from him, and see how YOUR life moves on.

You cant take care of someone else, if you cant look after yourself.

You must come first, cause if you cant work things out, and make rational decisions, then how on earth, are you going to make decisions for both of you.

 

 

Keep a short distance from him. Control what things you need from him, and what you don't want from him.

Don't argue, or go into details with things that have no bearing to YOUR life.

You cant rely on his actions to mould your life.

He needs to take control of his own life, and see what's really troubling him.

 

 

You can still love him, but, you have to live and breath in order to function clearly.

 

 

 

 

Ted.

[Joan621]

Thank you Ted. I would love for nothing more than for him to get help. I told him a few weeks ago I thought he should talk to someone, and he told me I was too late and it sounded like an ultimatum. That I should have said that six months ago when he was actually depressed (pre-DUI). Then he said would go if I really wanted him to, but he hasn't. He seems to think the couples counseling is enough. My hope at this point is that the couples counselor advises him to see someone, especially if we break up because I think I will really need it then to both cope with the sadness and realize that he needs to make changes to be happy for himself.

[springy]

He did say the day after the DUI he was depressed and needed to go to a doctor and maybe talk to someone.

 

So he said he was depressed and needed to go to a doctor/talk to someone. Did he? Or was he just saying what he thought you might like to hear?

 

He was understanding about me not forgiving him right away. The day after, he said I was not supportive by being upset still. A week later, he said he was totally fine except for my doubts.

 

Wait - supportive of him getting a DUI? Am I understanding correctly that this guy is blaming the DUI on your desire to have children? And that you weren't supportive because he didn't receive instant forgiveness? Where is his own accountability? How does his DUI need your support and understanding? See how he flipped this on you?

 

We started going to a couples counselor and so far, that has just made it evident to me that he isn't doing anything to help himself and that he thinks nothing (major) is wrong with him because I have the doubts.

 

This man is NOT going to change and you can't fix him. It's been 14 and half years and he is 40 years old now. He thinks nothing is wrong with him and sounds very manipulative. He doesn't care to lift a finger around the house (that he's living in rent free), has a drinking problem and apparently no stable job? Not going to change.

 

Seeing him like this fills me with overwhelming guilt

 

Why? According to him, he's fine. He's got it all together. You are the one with the problem.

 

I did something for myself by taking the job and moving, and it hasn't worked out well for him

 

Of course it hasn't worked out well for him. His housekeeper and bill payer is gone. He may actually have to take care of himself for once.

 

I feel like I ruined his life and he will allude to how much he gave up to move and stay with me.

 

From what I read it seems you have given up a lot to appease him. You haven't ruined his life, he did this all on his own. Definitely some co dependency going on here. How much he gave up? He's living with you rent-free. Poor guy.

 

The problem now is I love him, but I feel burned out and don't know how I can fix things with him right now given how the root of this all started.

 

Of course you love him, but you can't fix him. Love does not mean you stay with someone indefinitely. You can't fix anyone but yourself. You are miserable. He is not going to change. Go back due to guilt or love or whatever, and continue to put your own needs on the back burner while you cater to his needs and he continues to do nothing about his flaws (because he doesn't think he has any after all). I think you have wasted enough time with this guy. He is not going to change (did I say that already).

 

If you do decide to leave be prepared for guilt tripping/manipulation (this is why you shouldn't stay in touch after all the household logistics are taken care of) and/or promises to change, and possibly outright rage. Not saying he has no love for you, but he is about to lose his meal ticket. Never put yourself in a situation like this again. There is no reason why he shouldn't have a stable job and be contributing at the very least to the housework!

 

I have dated guys who blamed everything and everyone else for their problems. Today, some 10-15 years later they are still up to the same old tricks. Only it's worse now because they are older.

 

This is definitely not a man you should have children with. Sorry.

[springy]

Thank you Ted. I would love for nothing more than for him to get help. I told him a few weeks ago I thought he should talk to someone, and he told me I was too late and it sounded like an ultimatum. That I should have said that six months ago when he was actually depressed (pre-DUI). Then he said would go if I really wanted him to, but he hasn't. He seems to think the couples counseling is enough. My hope at this point is that the couples counselor advises him to see someone, especially if we break up because I think I will really need it then to both cope with the sadness and realize that he needs to make changes to be happy for himself.

 

Futile, futile, futile. You are wasting precious time. He needs you to pay his bills. He needs you to clean the house. He needs you to tell him to go get professional help. He'll go but only because you want him to. Any additional time put into trying to fix him is --- futile.

 

I can tell you have a sweet heart and you love this man. Compassion and empathy are wonderful virtues but there is only so much you can do, so much you can take. You have tried long enough. You have one life. Just one.

[Joan621]

Springy - I can elaborate a bit, but I imagine it won't change your opinion!

- He said those things. He has not gone to a doctor or talked to anyone. Now he seems to think he doesn't need to...

- He said I was not supportive because he clearly had an emotional breakdown to get the DUI in the first place.

- The weird thing with work is he got a job shortly after the DUI with an OK salary, but he said he can't contribute because of his own bills

- The guilt is clearly a problem I have that I can't shake. I feel it because he chose to leave the city he loved to come here so I feel like it's on me that his situation is what it is and that I am a bad person for getting to this point after he got a DUI and has to deal with all of that.

 

Thank you for your thoughts!

[springy]

Springy - I can elaborate a bit, but I imagine it won't change your opinion!

- He said those things. He has not gone to a doctor or talked to anyone. Now he seems to think he doesn't need to...

- He said I was not supportive because he clearly had an emotional breakdown to get the DUI in the first place.

- The weird thing with work is he got a job shortly after the DUI with an OK salary, but he said he can't contribute because of his own bills

- The guilt is clearly a problem I have that I can't shake. I feel it because he chose to leave the city he loved to come here so I feel like it's on me that his situation is what it is and that I am a bad person for getting to this point after he got a DUI and has to deal with all of that.

 

Thank you for your thoughts!

 

It solidified my opinion actually lol.

 

-Doesn't think he needs help so nothing will ever change

-Not buying it, he chose to drink and drive; have your emotional breakdown and stay out from behind the wheel - lame excuse because he can't bring himself to be held accountable for his poor choices

-Nice, so you don't have other bills? You are suppose to support him indefinitely? Are you paying his bills and yours right now? He is selfish.

-Something to work with your counselor on. This is no reason to stay with him. Work through the guilt and you will find you gave up a lot too, plus- and I can't stress this enough - you have supported him for a very long time now...and he says he still can't help he's got to take care of numero uno. smh. You gave up a lot too, this isn't all about him (well, to him it's all about him). He should have to deal with the consequences of his DUI and it should be painful and inconvenient for him. Someone could have gotten hurt or worse!

 

Stay in independent counseling. I'm not sure I'd spend any more money on couples counseling (you are paying for this too I presume?). He is not going to change. This guy is a dud. Sorry.

 

What are you going to do?

[Goodguy05]

I think the only way he's gonna change is possibly losing u.

 

I too was a little childish in my 1st marriage but wen my wife left after a few mths and wen it was clear she wasn't coming back i quickly grew up and pulled my socks up.

 

I changed but it was too late and other circumstances mainly lack of understanding and communication was the final nail in our marriage. U sound like ud still give him a chance because of the way u feel.

 

Unfortunately men like him and me well that was in the past now lol for me think because ur still there nothings wrong.

 

It takes that leaving that void and pain to finally change people and some people may not change. U dont sound happy for good valid reasons u need to do wats right for u i think in this instance

Edited June 30, 2017 by Goodguy05

[Chin Up]

I just ended things with my ex due to him being irresponsible and getting loaded all the time. Not sure if this will help you, but this was my thinking before I decided to call it a day.

 

"Have I done everything I possibly can to salvage this relationship? Yes. Has he put the same amount of effort in? No. Will, or has he tried to change? No. Am I happy? No."

 

And I ended it. I know you've been together for a while, but don't focus on the length of the relationship, but instead, the quality of it. It's hard and confusing to end a relationship, but you know what's best for you and when it's time to wrap things up. Whatever you decide, I hope the best.

[Joan621]

Thank you for all the responses. I am leaning towards ending it, for many of the reasons mentioned here. We went to a therapy session a couple of days ago and I told him that I am sad and anxious because I am grieving the good we had and I know we can't go back to that and I don't know what I can do to fix it at this point. He was very emotional and asked why we are in therapy if I don't think I am going to stay with him and I told him therapy is about finding a resolution, not just to stay together. When we drove home (well, when I drove him to my house!), he acted helpless and asked what he could do. I reminded him that I have pointed out my issues with him and that no matter what, he could work on bettering himself and talk to someone. Excuses followed. No good friends here to talk to (I guess he can't pick up the phone to call the good ones who live in another state). Therapy is personality specific and he doesn't have the right personality. He will just tell a therapist he is there because his girlfriend told him to go and they will just turn him out the door (which is definitely not true - that's a sure sign he needs to be there!). He doesn't have time. It's too expensive. Couples therapy is where he should focus his energy. Sigh! Then the next two hours was about me being a different person and such. It feels like it is being set up so that if I leave him, it was entirely just me and my issues. I so want him to realize his role in this, but our poor communication skills and his belief that the only thing really wrong with him is me wanting to leave him will probably never allow that to happen. Oh, and the house is still so dirty after me being gone almost six weeks. He knows that stresses me out and that I want him to help more with that. My mom said he must not want me to move back that badly because he would clean if he did...otherwise he just really doesn't get it.

 

Goodguy - did you have a similar communication issue in your first marriage? Did you feel like you knew why your wife was leaving you at the time, or was it only after when you felt like you started to grow up? How long were you together?

[preraph]

I'm glad you're in therapy because you'll get your best answers there.

 

But just offhand, looks like you've made most of the major concessions in the relationship up to now to keep it together, and that it will not stay together unless you continue to do so.

 

The baby thing is a legitimate issue for him. You agreed not to and he doesn't want them. Number one, you should never try to force kids on someone who doesn't want them for obvious reasons. One, you'll get no help with them. Two, they will resent you even if they love the kids. Three, and most important, it's not fair to the kid to give her a parent who doesn't want her. So if you have kids without him agreeing to it wholeheartedly, you are doing a mean thing to your babies and not choosing a good father for them.

 

The rest of it, you know he's not about to change after 14 years of getting his way. So you either stay or leave. If you want kids bad enough, definitely leave. Better having them on your own than with someone who doesn't want them. If you are used to how things are and can do without kids, it's just weighing how happy you are with or without him. Good luck.

[Joan621]

I posted my saga previously at . This is a follow up question to all of that, but you may not need to read that to provide advice.

 

Bottom line is we have been together over 14 years. I moved out six weeks ago to get some space, but we aren't broken up. I had doubts and became burned out because I feel I have done a lot to take care of him and couldn't deal with all the guilt I was feeling for growing as a person and feeling differently about the relationship, and for being upset things weren't working out for him. I have been in therapy for a few months to work through my issues, and am covering all the bills at home, even while I am not living there.

 

He has acted helpless and asked me what he could do to help. I told him to work on the issues I identified and to see a therapist. I identified issues that were contributing to my stress, like finances and him not helping clean the house or allow me to hire someone to do it.

 

Six weeks later, the house is very dirty (i.e. no cleaning the bathroom, the floors, the kitchen, or bird poop on the porch). He has not made an appointment with a therapist and gives me a hundred bad reasons why he doesn't need to. He hasn't gone to a doctor (another concern I have had). He still isn't contributing to the mortgage, but I know he has gone out a few times. And recently, I went by and saw my two plants that were so important to me were dead - and they were right above the sink with a pitcher right there to remind us to water them.

 

Am I crazy for thinking he doesn't really want me to come back and he may want me to end this? He says he wants me home, but I don't even want to stay long when I go over because I know I will have to clean everything. Am I being petty? I just feel like if he was really determined to win me back, he would do these little things. He didn't even say anything when I pointed out the plants were dead. Later I asked him to try to bring them back to life and he said sorry they died, but there were so many plants he had to take care of he forgot those. They are the only two indoor plants mind you. It just really crushed me.

 

Thoughts?

[ExpatInItaly]

Why is this adult man not contributing to anything? Why are you solely responsible for the mortgage? Does he not work?

 

If this has been the pattern for a while, he's probably just waiting for you to fix it all up for him. He's showing you very clearly it's not important to him.

 

I don't know the backstory, but at a glance, this all seems arse-backwards. You pay the mortgage and look after the house - he should be the one staying elsewhere while he sorts himself out.

 

In any event, this doesn't sound like the relationship is viable anymore. You've got yourself a son rather than a partner, it sounds like. And it doesn't appear he really cares about changing that either.

[Joan621]

I just realized my link for the backstory didn't go through - http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/628064-long-term-relationship-debating-breakup.

 

He is not paying because he says he simply has nothing to contribute. He has a job now that pays $40K (really good job - just at a university), but apparently with DUI and loan expenses, he can't afford to contribute to the mortgage.

[Zahara]

I just realized my link for the backstory didn't go through - http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/628064-long-term-relationship-debating-breakup.

 

He is not paying because he says he simply has nothing to contribute. He has a job now that pays $40K (really good job - just at a university), but apparently with DUI and loan expenses, he can't afford to contribute to the mortgage.

 

Well, he can't even contribute to watering the plants.

 

I was married to someone like this and it didn't change. Promises were temporary and usually self-serving. Looking back, the biggest problem was me being an enabler and a co-dependent. I took care of everything and it never gave him any incentive to make an effort or strive to be better. It seems that you have taken on the role of being his mother and caretaker.

 

What does it matter if he wants you to end it? What does this relationship mean to you and what are your reasons for staying in it? You determine if this is working for you and you end it for you.

 

Did you decide to move out in hopes of passively pushing him to wake up? If so, it's not working. It's time to focus on your own self-development and move on. He needs to figure out his own journey, without you.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Zahara

[Joan621]

It matters to me whether or not he wants this only with respect to coming to terms with my own guilt. The guilt has been an issue with me. As his behavior continues to show me he doesn't care, it helps with respect to realizing what the right thing to do for myself is, but my hangup has been guilt over breaking his heart after so many years. He keeps insisting he loves me and we have to stay together, but now I am starting to reach a point where I just don't think I can believe him anyway because of this behavior.

[Zahara]

It matters to me whether or not he wants this only with respect to coming to terms with my own guilt. The guilt has been an issue with me. As his behavior continues to show me he doesn't care, it helps with respect to realizing what the right thing to do for myself is, but my hangup has been guilt over breaking his heart after so many years. He keeps insisting he loves me and we have to stay together, but now I am starting to reach a point where I just don't think I can believe him anyway because of this behavior.

 

The guilt of not supporting someone that chooses not to help themselves?

 

Your guilt is your co-dependency. You're an enabler. Who's going to take care of him? Who's going to pay his bills? Guilt for not agreeing to be his caretaker. The need to put your wellbeing on the backburner to prioritize the feelings and needs of another. You see little value in yourself hence you demote and dismiss your own feelings and place more regard towards how and what he feels.

 

This man has treated you poorly and has had no desire to put any effort into you. This is not your guilt to bear -- he takes accountability for his own behaviors and repercussions. He's a grown man.

 

He says he loves you -- actions versus words. His actions have concluded otherwise. I have to believe he tells you that because he can't stand to lose his support and all the benefits you provide to him. This isn't about breaking his heart or love -- it's dependency.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Zahara

[Redhead14]

I'm kinda thinking that since you moved out to get some space, he's assuming it's going to be over anyway and the state of the house now reflects that he is struggling with the stress and anxiety and depression that a break up is coming.

 

That is what most people think when a partner takes a "break" . . .

 

All that being said, I don't see what you didn't just break up with him. The relationship sounds as though it's been unsatisfying for you for a long, long time.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Redhead14

[spiderowl]

It sounds like he's depressed, bumping along on the bottom. This is not your fault. You can't mend him.

 

Despite his depression, he could have tried to pull his weight but he clearly hasn't. It might be due to illness but it is probably also due to the fact that he expects you to pull him out of any problems he has. He may say he doesn't, but realistically if you don't, you suffer too, so it tends to happen by default.

 

This is not fair on you and you are doing the right thing by giving up. He has had plenty of time to change. Your feelings matter too. You don't have to support him any more, you can build a different life for yourself.

 

I know you feel guilt because you sense his helplessness but this will go on forever as long as you are supporting him and denying yourself everything that matters to you - love, support, financial support, material help, family perhaps. Why should you deny yourself all that because he is not coping with life? It might sound harsh but you've done a lot over the years. Now is the time to look after yourself and seek a future for yourself. You won't get anything better with this guy, no matter how much you love him.

[Joan621]

I do believe you are right about the co-dependency. It is something I have worked through in therapy. It was hard to see that I might have that issue when I am doing so much. Then I learned about codependency as a caregiver and it all makes a lot more sense. It has been a hard thing to come to terms with, but I can't deny or disagree that I have enabled a lot of bad behavior for so long and that if he is going to change, it is going to be on his own without me there to encourage it not to happen.

[Whodatdog]

He can't afford to help with the mortgage? So then what happens when you move out and he has to pay for a mortgage or rent on his own?

 

Why are you treating him like a child?

[Redhead14]

A one-sided relationship is lonely. This guy is/was using you. You were treating him like a husband and he's been treating you like a convenience.

 

He's not only lazy with his lifestyle, he's lazy emotionally -- he won't be the one to end it -- that's too hard.

 

Send him home to his mother so she can finish the job she started.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Redhead14

[hestheone66]

It matters to me whether or not he wants this only with respect to coming to terms with my own guilt. The guilt has been an issue with me. As his behavior continues to show me he doesn't care, it helps with respect to realizing what the right thing to do for myself is, but my hangup has been guilt over breaking his heart after so many years. He keeps insisting he loves me and we have to stay together, but now I am starting to reach a point where I just don't think I can believe him anyway because of this behavior.

 

If you look at some of my posts about my toxic relationship, you will see I have been in your shoes.

The man I was with was very good at saying thing, poetic things...I knew my life was getting worse each year..his professions of love seemed so special....then one day I realised that that's all they were, professions.

 

That he probably believed it but I also realised I didn't want that kind of love that brought me pain and worry. The guilt I had was exacerbated knowing he'd be functionally homeless..he did have job but only in the last few months..at least I felt he could support himself...when I left I gave him my car..he'd never helped with my mortgage, nor housework or childcare so I realised my guilt was misplaced and I owed it to myself and children to stop this sham of a life...

 

I left secretly but permanently..u are better off as you've already moved out. In my case as it was my house, I just sold it and he had to move out (I was living elsewhere by that time)

My Epiphany was that love is when you suffer in small ways for the happiness if the other....he didn't ever love me, just needed me, used me...I didn't want it any more and now I'm literally stress free and love life.

[healing light]

There's no reason for you to feel guilty. He doesn't care how he's impacting you.

 

Not getting one of your major needs met is reason enough for a breakup. Let alone 14 years of a parasitic relationship.

 

He may be depressed but he's not even making an effort to do anything. At all. How is it that he maintains employment if he's incapable of watering plants? Sounds like a choice.

[Joan621]

The guilt is definitely largely due to him moving back home to support me with the new job. I understand it has been almost three years now and that he is an adult who didn't have to follow me out here, etc. I wanted to believe this was some big sign/expression of love. Haha I actually felt guilty too about leaving him while he is dealing with DUI consequences.