My ex and I argued today

[LinkWorshiper]

Aaaaand I would love to hear from this thread about what to do now.... My ex and I argued today because I made him come clean that he was still seeing someone. (He kept avoiding it.) He got upset when I told him how I felt about the situation, like I was somehow at fault because I kept misinterpreting his actions. He said he doesn't talk to anyone much anymore and he wants to keep a connection with me, and I told him fine, we can start over, which he agreed to... but I don't know... I feel like I'm being used as an emotional crutch, and even though I want to be there for him, I don't know if I can be anymore. I don't want to cut him out and do something to screw the pooch, but I also don't want him to think it's okay. Thoughts?

[FennecFox]

You made your ex come clean about seeing someone? Why does it matter whether your ex is seeing someone or not? In fact what set of circumstances led to you and your ex staying in touch with each other after the break-up? Who broke up with who? How long ago? What did you feel about him seeing this other girl?

 

To give honest advice you need to provide us with a little more context. But going purely on the assumption it's a recent break-up and he broke up with you then you should definitely cut all contact. You're not going to screw the pooch, it sounds like there's nothing left there for you anyway.

[Balzac]

Becoming an emotional tampon requires the first step of volunteering.

[LinkWorshiper]

We broke up in January. He had a freak out and dumped me. Long story short, it was an emotional roller coaster since then, but we were trying to be friends, and, to my understanding, work things out. Our friendship was going at a good clip for a few months until he started flirting with me again. I thought, 'Oh, he must want to get serious again,' but then the next week, he goes radio silent and I asked him why. He said he met someone, though he wasn't sure if he really wanted the relationship and that he was just feeling it out. I told him I wasn't comfortable sitting on the sidelines and watching him fall in love with someone else while he expected us to have the same relationship we always did, except without all the bells and whistles.

 

Anyway, two or three weeks of NC in, I get this long, handwritten letter from him that detailed his emotional pain and all these things he'd messed up in his life that made it impossible for him to be a good partner to anybody. He talked about how he was unhappy being casual acquaintances with me and how he thought I was a beautiful soul and that he hoped I would forgive him in the future. To me, it sounded like he wanted to work things out but that he had to take care of himself first. So I responded by telling him that I understood and I was there if he needed it.

 

A few weeks later, we started talking again, and it was rough at first, very raw and emotional. Our first interaction, it didn't seem like he was doing emotionally well at all. Then he decided after that conversation that I was in a better place and to unblock me on FB, because it was "childish" to have done so in the first place. I told him that I wanted to communicate with him more before we went down this road again, before I even friended him, and he said nothing. Then a week later, I told him that all this separation and such was stupid and I didn't want to keep stumbling around like this because he was still incredibly important to me. The next day, he friends me on FB, and since then, was messaging me literally every day with questions about what I'm doing, do I want to play Warcraft or Guild Wars with him like we used to, how are my new hobbies going and what am I even into these days, do I want to hang out with him this weekend, he found this thing on the internet and maybe I'd like it. He has also been obsessively stalking my Tumblr every day, so he should know exactly how I feel.

 

So with all that, when we were talking yesterday, he mentioned this girl and I asked him for like the fifth time who she was. He says she's the girl he's been seeing and he didn't mention her because she "wasn't pertinent". I told him I was very confused by his letter and the fact that he was suddenly so interested in my life, moreso than even before I had asked for space in the first place. And it turned into an argument because I apparently didn't read the situation correctly and he just wanted a connection with me and it was my fault for not understanding. He just got more upset when I told him how all this made me feel, and he got passive aggressive and I got sadder and sadder. The argument ended with "Let's just start over," but I really don't know what is going on here at all, or what I ought to do. He has been sending me so many mixed messages, just when I think things are going well, it all turns on a dime.

[Neall]

I think you shoul meet him in person and talk calmly about it, without bringing any sensitive subjects, just a normal chat. See how he responds, and how he feels, he may be confused with something that he is feeling, and you even more because you don't know what he wants, i think with calm and time, you will eventually understand what is going on with him, if he really loves you, and want to be with you, than he should get over his "friends" and stay in a healthy relationship with you. You know that you haven't make any mistakes, he is the one with doubts, let the time and with calm figure out what is going on, and if he loves you for the person you are more than he loves anyone, I think he will just get over the "mixed" messages and his "friends" and trully became yours.

but please don't overthink it, let it come clean, and don't feel bad for anything you don't have to... i hope you get the answer you need from him and from "us" here

 

best of luck and keep in touch with us

[Zahara]

Bottom line, you both can't be friends. This whole friend facade keeps going back and forth because you're too afraid to let him go and he needs you as a crutch.

 

You have no right to argue about who he's seeing. 1) It's your choice to still engage with him so if he decides to see someone else, it's no one's fault but yours if you are hurt or confused 2) he hasn't come out right and said he wants you and wants to work on the relationship so anything short of that requires total NC on your part 3) you guys are broken up therefore your private lives are separate and if you were truly a friend, you've be happy that he's dating and since you are not, you are not a friend to him. You have no right to demand who he's seeing.

 

You're responsible for making emotionally intelligent choices for yourself. If he can't give you what you want, don't hang on for anything else because you hope he'll come around. And the reason why you don't hang on and hope he'll come around because there's a chance that he may want to date someone else and when that happens, you land on LS posting these types of threads.

[LinkWorshiper]

@Neall - That is the reason I'd want to keep in contact with him, but I also don't want to be an emotional crutch to him either. I feel like I've been trying so hard to be supportive of him, but he gets touchy if I tell him something he doesn't want to hear. Things were going really well until yesterday when we argued about all this. Even his friends think he's been handling it all very poorly, but I worry that if I continue to hang around, I'll just become his emotional punching bag. But I get so sad thinking that he's not going to talk to me the way he had started to again... I had thought it was a good new beginning.

 

@Zahara - Well, I feel like I did have a right to ask if he was seeing someone because when we started talking again, he didn't mention anyone at all, and I thought he was trying to repair things with me with his very intense communications suddenly. I was under the impression he was talking to me because he wanted to start over and he wasn't clear at all that he had continued seeing this girl and what the status was, especially when he knew how I still felt. Maybe I shouldn't have been so pushy, but I also didn't want to be led on. How am I supposed to be a friend to him even in that regard if he wouldn't even tell me if he was seeing anyone at all? The whole thing started because I wanted to know why he was so interested in me if he was seeing someone else.

[Zahara]

Intense conversations but nothing that said, "I want to be with you and work on our relationship." Intense conversations mean nothing when you talk about everything else but committing, rekindling and working together on rebuilding the relationship. Short of a confirmation that he wants a relationship with you, accept that you are still broken up and if you choose to engage, prepare for hurt and confusion.

 

Again, you are not friends. Using "friends" as a motive to stay in each other's lives because you're hoping for more only creates situations such as these because it's not coming from an honest and realistic place.

[FennecFox]

It's quite simple really.

 

Based on his language from your quotes I'd say he's a fairly intelligent individual. I already know that he doesn't have many friends based on your first post. He's lonely and disappointed in his current partner, perhaps ashamed even but he still has no interest in reconciling with you.

 

Being fairly intelligent he's egotistical and most likely capable of rationalising anything he needs to to make himself feel better so he'll have no reservations about appealing to you in a romantic way. He probably doesn't want to let go of you completely.

 

Cut off contact with him and start feeling better.

[LinkWorshiper]

It's quite simple really.

 

Based on his language from your quotes I'd say he's a fairly intelligent individual. I already know that he doesn't have many friends based on your first post. He's lonely and disappointed in his current partner, perhaps ashamed even but he still has no interest in reconciling with you.

 

Being fairly intelligent he's egotistical and most likely capable of rationalising anything he needs to to make himself feel better so he'll have no reservations about appealing to you in a romantic way. He probably doesn't want to let go of you completely.

 

Cut off contact with him and start feeling better.

 

He IS very smart, which is a lot of what is appealing about him to me. We connect on that level, a philosophical level and even the base level of hobbies and interests. I guess I worry he had been feeling unsure about this new girl and was trying to reconstruct things with me, or see how things went with me if he was so unhappy with this new girl, and I messed it up by insisting he tell me exactly what was going on. I didn't want to end up in a situation where I was being led on, pretty much, especially since the interaction was very different than before. He got upset with me for doing this. He did try to apologize and say it was too much too fast, but he got upset with me again when I told him why the way he handled it upset me, and he threatened to cast me off, saying that he only had four people in his life he wanted to talk to and that I was one of them, that he didn't want to cut anyone else out but maybe I was too negative. (I have been nothing but supportive of him, except for when I get upset after feeling like he's jerked me around, so that really cut me.) He had counters for everything I had to say, but they completely ignored the feelings I was trying to convey. It's like it didn't matter that he was hurting my feelings, even if he just wanted to be friends or have that connection or whatever.

 

I just don't understand why he'd appeal to me like that, not want a relationship, but want a connection... why I'm not good enough to be his girlfriend even though he seems to want from me all the things we shared as a couple. I know his life is a mess right now, so I want to be empathetic, but I am now suddenly wary of his intentions. He thinks he's being clear but if that was true, I wouldn't have been confused, I think.

[Minneloa]

 

I'm sorry you're hurting, OP. But I urge you to push through your sadness and accept the reality that this wasn't a new beginning. It was the remnants of an old relationship that didn't work out. Whatever his motives for continuing to interact with you, he is currently involved with another woman. Trust his actions, not his words.

 

From your other posts, I know you have been reluctant to go NC, but now is really the time, for your own sanity and emotional health. No good can come of your current engagement with this man. I'm not saying it will be easy, but I believe it will ultimately be much less painful that staying in this hellish limbo of expectation and hope.

 

Sending good thoughts,

M.

[FennecFox]

You've seen that my estimations about him have been right so far. I can tell you why he wants you but not a relationship.

 

He likes power.

 

At first I was going to say he has a pathological need for love and affection because he's always felt ostracized by his intellect. But I think the truth of it is a bit darker. I'm willing to bet that you consider yourself intelligent but not as intelligent as him. Which is why he likes having you around so much, he has someone to bounce his thoughts off and reciprocate ideas.

 

He thinks himself superior to you (even if you don't think he is) which is why he plays these games with you. He wants you around but he isn't going to forfeit control. He said that there are only four people he talks to and he approached you, all sweetness and smiles to mend that bridge. But when you start to judge him or his actions he puts you on the back foot by hurting you emotionally.

 

He has counters for everything you say and is distant. Again this just proves that he believes himself superior... not just intellectually.

 

This guy has some serious inadequacy issues, probably stemming from his problems with relationships. I'd also be willing to bet he was seriously hurt before by someone or he's never had much luck with relationships. Or perhaps mother issues. But either way something has twisted his view on women.

 

If I'm right about the things I've said in this post don't trust his actions or his words. I'm deadly serious about this. He exhibits all the signs of real psychopathy.

[LinkWorshiper]

I'm sorry you're hurting, OP. But I urge you to push through your sadness and accept the reality that this wasn't a new beginning. It was the remnants of an old relationship that didn't work out. Whatever his motives for continuing to interact with you, he is currently involved with another woman. Trust his actions, not his words.

 

From your other posts, I know you have been reluctant to go NC, but now is really the time, for your own sanity and emotional health. No good can come of your current engagement with this man. I'm not saying it will be easy, but I believe it will ultimately be much less painful that staying in this hellish limbo of expectation and hope.

 

Sending good thoughts,

M.

 

Thanks, there, M.

 

I guess I keep beating myself up that I must somehow be immature because I am not able to handle just sitting on the sidelines and being his buddy while he tests the waters with this new girl and accepting that I am incredibly important to him such that he wants to keep me in his life (or so he says). Or that I got upset because he was avoiding having to acknowledge that he was seeing someone until (again), I insisted he come clean. I still am wary of going NC, and it makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it, because I'd been really happy being able to talk to him the way we used to, and it finally seemed like he was making efforts for me. I guess I'm mad at myself for allowing myself to even get upset at all. That he just thinks I'm the same old stupid girl who is too sensitive and not confident or something like that.

 

At the same time, reaching out to him is going to just show that it's okay for him to act like that. Maybe if he really wants me in his life as much as he says, he'll have to take a minute to think about it. I dunno. I haven't slept since this all happened and I literally want to puke right now. I guess I'm in shock.

[Minneloa]

Thanks, there, M.

 

I guess I keep beating myself up that I must somehow be immature because I am not able to handle just sitting on the sidelines and being his buddy while he tests the waters with this new girl and accepting that I am incredibly important to him such that he wants to keep me in his life (or so he says). Or that I got upset because he was avoiding having to acknowledge that he was seeing someone until (again), I insisted he come clean. I still am wary of going NC, and it makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it, because I'd been really happy being able to talk to him the way we used to, and it finally seemed like he was making efforts for me. I guess I'm mad at myself for allowing myself to even get upset at all. That he just thinks I'm the same old stupid girl who is too sensitive and not confident or something like that.

 

At the same time, reaching out to him is going to just show that it's okay for him to act like that. Maybe if he really wants me in his life as much as he says, he'll have to take a minute to think about it. I dunno. I haven't slept since this all happened and I literally want to puke right now. I guess I'm in shock.

 

Please be kind to yourself: you are not immature or oversensitive or stupid; you are HUMAN. No one, I repeat NO ONE wants to sit on the sidelines while their ex test drives a new relationship. UGH. What I am saying is that your reactions are absolutely understandable and normal.

 

Could you say a bit more about why you are wary of going NC? What are you afraid of?

 

M.

[LinkWorshiper]

You've seen that my estimations about him have been right so far. I can tell you why he wants you but not a relationship.

 

He likes power.

 

At first I was going to say he has a pathological need for love and affection because he's always felt ostracized by his intellect. But I think the truth of it is a bit darker. I'm willing to bet that you consider yourself intelligent but not as intelligent as him. Which is why he likes having you around so much, he has someone to bounce his thoughts off and reciprocate ideas.

 

He thinks himself superior to you (even if you don't think he is) which is why he plays these games with you. He wants you around but he isn't going to forfeit control. He said that there are only four people he talks to and he approached you, all sweetness and smiles to mend that bridge. But when you start to judge him or his actions he puts you on the back foot by hurting you emotionally.

 

He has counters for everything you say and is distant. Again this just proves that he believes himself superior... not just intellectually.

 

This guy has some serious inadequacy issues, probably stemming from his problems with relationships. I'd also be willing to bet he was seriously hurt before by someone or he's never had much luck with relationships. Or perhaps mother issues. But either way something has twisted his view on women.

 

If I'm right about the things I've said in this post don't trust his actions or his words. I'm deadly serious about this. He exhibits all the signs of real psychopathy.

 

I guess it's confusing because when we were in the relationship, things seemed really great. We had fun together, spent time together... and then he started to exhibit signs of what looked to me like depression. I'd make a comment about it here and there, but I didn't want to play doctor to him, so I never pressed it. When we broke up, it was because he got upset at me for calling him out on being a drunk ******* at a party. He had hurt my feelings. I thought all his depression had come to a head, and he said so when he wrote that letter to me.

 

I think you are a little right that he has a need for love and affection because to my knowledge, he has a list of failed relationships and he likes the feeling of the honeymoon stage because it makes him feel better about himself. He told me once after an argument during the relationship (one of the few we ever had) that he didn't like to have serious talks with me because he'd rather just enjoy my company and have fun. All this stuff is why I was relieved that he seemed to be focused on working on himself after the break up, because he was putting band-aids on all his problems, especially with alcohol and weed (and maybe dating?).

 

I consider myself intelligent, but in a different way from him. It was another thing I liked. He is very logical and mathematical, whereas I am more literary and artistic. But often times, logic defeats me, so I feel like when we are having these talks, even if what he says makes no sense when I've had time to think about it, in the moment, I don't have the natural talent to counter his logic. I just have emotions... the artistic ones that are a little intense.

 

In the argument we had, he literally turned on a dime. He went from being my best bro as he had been for the past week with almost alarming consistency to getting upset that I didn't read between the lines of this interaction that he was still seeing someone and that I shouldn't have thought it meant as much as I did, even though since he's been reading my Tumblr, he should know better. He acted like I was stupid because I did. He went from wanting to do what I was doing and to hang out with me on Sunday to throwing all these emotional barbs at me. He said he felt ****ty enough about the situation and made it seem like somehow I was making it worse by airing my feelings about it. Yet the argument ended with me being like, 'Forget it, let's just start over,' and he was like, 'We can do that.'

 

One of the other people he still talks to told me that I was "the one" for him and that he really messed everything up by not handling any of this well. This same friend has said that what my ex felt for me in the relationship was different than the rest -- that I wasn't just another notch in the lipstick case. So I guess on the one hand, at least other people see I'm not so bad, but it doesn't reassure me much. I still feel like I'm a downer. He told me that the only reason I felt like I was on the back burner was because I put myself there. How can I even do that?

 

As for failed past relationships, I don't know the details of all, but when we met, he said that he only had one good girlfriend and the rest cheated. He told me he ruined the relationship with the good girl by cheating and he regretted it. But then I know that the girlfriend before me, he had proposed to and knocked up, but then he got distant when it came to handling the baby situation and she dumped him. I'm a little hazy on what happened next, but I have a sinking feeling he's doing the same thing to me that he was to her... based on her blog, which you can easily find if you Google his name. He has no idea I know.

 

And he is adopted. Which is great, but he often laments why his birth mom gave him up, and refers to his adoptive mom as 'the lady who stepped in and he now calls "mom".' Also his father is very reserved and has a lot of 'my only son' expectations from him.

 

Your words are helpful, though. I told him flat out that his actions have not matched his words since all of this nonsense started. He didn't care much for that comment....

 

I guess I never thought of him as dangerous before. I always felt incredibly safe and comfortable around him. This is a hard pill....

[LinkWorshiper]

Intense conversations but nothing that said, "I want to be with you and work on our relationship." Intense conversations mean nothing when you talk about everything else but committing, rekindling and working together on rebuilding the relationship. Short of a confirmation that he wants a relationship with you, accept that you are still broken up and if you choose to engage, prepare for hurt and confusion.

 

Again, you are not friends. Using "friends" as a motive to stay in each other's lives because you're hoping for more only creates situations such as these because it's not coming from an honest and realistic place.

 

Sorry, missed this. He has this way of phrasing himself that can kind of be taken various ways. He'll say something like, "You're really important to me and I want you in my life," or "I'm NOT content being casual acquaintances with you," and it just leaves a lot of room for interpretation. He gets upset when I don't interpret his words the way he intended though. Which is pretty much what happened when we argued yesterday. Except that I feel like without him indicating clearly when we started talking again that he was still seeing someone and that he was being SO eager to try and get to know me again, piled with the letter and all that other stuff, I can't think of how anybody would think that he wasn't maybe changing his tune a bit. He keeps insisting he's been so clear with me and that I just haven't been listening, but it's hard to hear if the words aren't actually coming out of his mouth....

[FennecFox]

Based on what you're telling me I think I'm dead on with this guy. I can tell you that for a fact because it's me down to a tee. I'm fairly smart and very logical, I had trauma and heartbreak when I was younger and I ended up in much the same position that he is in now, except I have morals and I could see what I was doing was painful, destructive and wrong to everyone involved.

 

He isn't dangerous but he has some serious issues. He may well be psychopathic which again, doesn't mean he's dangerous but it means he doesn't really care for anybody. He can turn his emotions on and off like a light switch.

 

He's reciprocating the pain brought on him by others and he doesn't really care about you or this new girl. He is a pleasure seeker, he enjoys the dopamine/serotonin/oxytocin rush he gets from the new relationship but due to his intellect and lack of emotion he soon gets bored. He will endlessly continue this cycle until it is no longer rewarding or until he fixes himself, which is unlikely.

 

Seriously, don't contact him ever again. I would be genuinely concerned for you if you did. Maybe not physically but he will do absolutely anything he can to keep you under his thumb and it will only hurt you.

 

EDIT: The reason he seemed to love you so much at the start is because people like this are master imitators. They're playing the game and it's more for their own satisfaction than yours. It will be a perfect relationship until it's not. Unless he does have some pangs of conscience and he stays long enough for you to see the cracks.

 

DOUBLE EDIT: You said you don't have the natural talent to counter his logic. Do you really believe that or did he make you think that? Either way it's yet another indicator that he's using you. You're willingly submissive (intellectually) which massages his ego. When you refuse to submit to his intellect he beats you into submission with as much cruelty as is required to maintain dominance.

Edited August 30, 2013 by FennecFox

[LinkWorshiper]

Please be kind to yourself: you are not immature or oversensitive or stupid; you are HUMAN. No one, I repeat NO ONE wants to sit on the sidelines while their ex test drives a new relationship. UGH. What I am saying is that your reactions are absolutely understandable and normal.

 

Could you say a bit more about why you are wary of going NC? What are you afraid of?

 

M.

 

Ack, missed this one too, sorry!

 

I guess the thing that kills me is that I observed in him severe depression. I have been/am a depressed person (with some other stuff to sweeten the pot), so it was pretty obvious to me. So I guess while I watched him spin around in this confusion, I was empathetic because I get what that feels like. I've tried to be supportive and helpful while managing my own stuff since the break. I am wary of going NC with him because I don't want to leave him alone in that void of awfulness because that really sucks. He's already pushing so many people away and because loneliness is awful when you're depressed, I don't want him to get to a point where he is. I really worry about this obviously downward spiral he's in.

 

I had asked for space a few months ago when he first mentioned seeing this girl because of that exact reason. Then he started doing things like writing that letter, and then we started interacting again. He acts like he understands me so well but he doesn't listen to me when I try to explain myself. But he has a lot of explanations about his actions and such. Anyway, part of me feels like I've put myself right where I was in the first place because I pushed things, though I honestly even wonder if this other girl even knows he's been talking to me at all.

[LinkWorshiper]

Based on what you're telling me I think I'm dead on with this guy. I can tell you that for a fact because it's me down to a tee. I'm fairly smart and very logical, I had trauma and heartbreak when I was younger and I ended up in much the same position that he is in now, except I have morals and I could see what I was doing was painful, destructive and wrong to everyone involved.

 

He isn't dangerous but he has some serious issues. He may well be psychopathic which again, doesn't mean he's dangerous but it means he doesn't really care for anybody. He can turn his emotions on and off like a light switch.

 

He's reciprocating the pain brought on him by others and he doesn't really care about you or this new girl. He is a pleasure seeker, he enjoys the dopamine/serotonin/oxytocin rush he gets from the new relationship but due to his intellect and lack of emotion he soon gets bored. He will endlessly continue this cycle until it is no longer rewarding or until he fixes himself, which is unlikely.

 

Seriously, don't contact him ever again. I would be genuinely concerned for you if you did. Maybe not physically but he will do absolutely anything he can to keep you under his thumb and it will only hurt you.

 

EDIT: The reason he seemed to love you so much at the start is because people like this are master imitators. They're playing the game and it's more for their own satisfaction than yours. It will be a perfect relationship until it's not. Unless he does have some pangs of conscience and he stays long enough for you to see the cracks.

 

DOUBLE EDIT: You said you don't have the natural talent to counter his logic. Do you really believe that or did he make you think that? Either way it's yet another indicator that he's using you. You're willingly submissive (intellectually) which massages his ego. When you refuse to submit to his intellect he beats you into submission with as much cruelty as is required to maintain dominance.

 

I guess that's the rub. I can't tell what is real or not anymore. I used to feel as though he does have a conscious and emotions, and I want to believe he does. There are certain things he does and says that make me think so even when he's doing all this stupid stuff. I mean, during our argument, he admitted that he felt really ****ty about the whole situation, so that sort of implicates he knows. I really feel like he's trying to make an effort to change, though I also think he thinks he's much further along than he actually is. He talks a lot about understanding and empathy, but sometimes I feel like he doesn't know exactly what those things mean.

 

Do you think he is just trying to keep me around because he knows it's not going to go anywhere with this new girl? That he knows it's a temporary fix? I feel like he has been working awfully hard to keep me in the picture, especially when I dial it back. I sometimes even wonder if this new girl even knows who I am or that he still talks to me with such frequency. He would only mention her in passing to me like it was something he wanted to avoid instead of just being up front about it when we started talking again. I guess I feel like if he were so serious about her, what is the point of even engaging me, despite my efforts to reconcile?

 

I feel like he does have some sort of a conscious. I hope he does. But what you say about him being a master imitator makes sense. My first indicator that he was depressed, or so I thought, was that whenever we would go out, he would make a point to be that guy in the middle of the crowd, buying drinks, making jokes, blah blah blah. But when we were alone, he'd be gentle and thoughtful and so different, it was obvious he was putting on a mask (another thing he admitted in his letter).

 

At the same time, I know I am a little bit submissive in general. But I know I can talk well with people... lots of people think I'm pretty witty apparently. So I don't know if it's him playing on me or what, but some of the comments he made during our argument seemed like they were made because he knew how upset I would be. He knows I get severe anxiety over separation and abandonment, which is maybe why he threatens leaving? I don't think he thinks I'm really stupid, but I've been feeling that way a lot lately. I mean in general, not just with him.

[Zahara]

Sorry, missed this. He has this way of phrasing himself that can kind of be taken various ways. He'll say something like, "You're really important to me and I want you in my life," or "I'm NOT content being casual acquaintances with you," and it just leaves a lot of room for interpretation. He gets upset when I don't interpret his words the way he intended though. Which is pretty much what happened when we argued yesterday. Except that I feel like without him indicating clearly when we started talking again that he was still seeing someone and that he was being SO eager to try and get to know me again, piled with the letter and all that other stuff, I can't think of how anybody would think that he wasn't maybe changing his tune a bit. He keeps insisting he's been so clear with me and that I just haven't been listening, but it's hard to hear if the words aren't actually coming out of his mouth....

 

When people are vague, it's because they don't want you to find out the truth or their true intent. When someone plays word games with you rather than be completely upfront and transparent, you take the lead in asking the right questions for yourself so that YOU can make an informed decision as to whether it's right for you. Don't you have a say in what you need and want? Don't you have the right to get answers? If what he says isn't convincing or remotely clear to you, clarify and get him to be clear.

[LinkWorshiper]

When people are vague, it's because they don't want you to find out the truth or their true intent. When someone plays word games with you rather than be completely upfront and transparent, you take the lead in asking the right questions for yourself so that YOU can make an informed decision as to whether it's right for you. Don't you have a say in what you need and want? Don't you have the right to get answers? If what he says isn't convincing or remotely clear to you, clarify and get him to be clear.

 

I guess that's what I was trying to do. At the same time, I wanted to take things slowly with him and I worry that I messed up by forcing the issue. But at the same same time, I didn't want to be his emotional crutch while he dabbled around either. I know I shouldn't feel bad that he got all upset because I was seeking answers from him and he didn't like that I was seeing through him. What I don't get is that he keeps making a big deal about wanting to be honest and empathetic, so I try to deal with him that way, but then he tells me I'm the problem when the conversation turns into one he doesn't want to have. I'm frustrated because I know he's better than this, and also because the things he talks about intellectually are exactly what I want in a person, but then this stuff happens....

[Minneloa]

Ack, missed this one too, sorry!

 

I guess the thing that kills me is that I observed in him severe depression. I have been/am a depressed person (with some other stuff to sweeten the pot), so it was pretty obvious to me. So I guess while I watched him spin around in this confusion, I was empathetic because I get what that feels like. I've tried to be supportive and helpful while managing my own stuff since the break. I am wary of going NC with him because I don't want to leave him alone in that void of awfulness because that really sucks. He's already pushing so many people away and because loneliness is awful when you're depressed, I don't want him to get to a point where he is. I really worry about this obviously downward spiral he's in.

 

I had asked for space a few months ago when he first mentioned seeing this girl because of that exact reason. Then he started doing things like writing that letter, and then we started interacting again. He acts like he understands me so well but he doesn't listen to me when I try to explain myself. But he has a lot of explanations about his actions and such. Anyway, part of me feels like I've put myself right where I was in the first place because I pushed things, though I honestly even wonder if this other girl even knows he's been talking to me at all.

 

I know that you care about him and are concerned for his well-being, but I think you should prioritize yourself rather than him right now. Remaining in contact with him at his point seems like a situation that is destined to hurt you further. Truth is, you can't take care of him and yourself at the same time, because he's the source of your pain.

[Minneloa]

I guess that's what I was trying to do. At the same time, I wanted to take things slowly with him and I worry that I messed up by forcing the issue. But at the same same time, I didn't want to be his emotional crutch while he dabbled around either. I know I shouldn't feel bad that he got all upset because I was seeking answers from him and he didn't like that I was seeing through him. What I don't get is that he keeps making a big deal about wanting to be honest and empathetic, so I try to deal with him that way, but then he tells me I'm the problem when the conversation turns into one he doesn't want to have. I'm frustrated because I know he's better than this, and also because the things he talks about intellectually are exactly what I want in a person, but then this stuff happens....

 

This is precisely the difference between words and actions.

[FennecFox]

I think he's wanting to keep his options open. I doubt that the new girl knows much about you. Usually the relationships are insular because if one girl discovers the other then the entire fabrication is exposed which is most powerless position he can be in. He's probably terrified of that happening which explains the hesitance to divulge any information to you and the venomous reaction to your questions.

 

You seem like a very intelligent individual. Your grammar skills and vocabulary are exceptional and you seem very insightful and ready to accept other points of view (the true mark of intellect). I'm positive that he likes this about you but it intimidates him too and yes, he will say things designed to poke at your most vulnerable points. I don't believe he thinks you're stupid, he wouldn't spend so much time lying to you if that were the case. Stupid people are easy to fool and manipulate. You're more of an equal than most to him but that is nowhere near how he views himself.

 

The problem is given that he's pretty much like I am and he knows you incredibly well he can probably read you the same way I read him. I still strongly recommend cutting contact with him, I think he's far too narcissistic to be selfless or to love you but he will attempt to keep you around via manipulation if you let him. I know you said that you suffer from seperation anxiety but I would be more anxious about his influence than lack of.

 

Even taking away all the things I've said, he's doing you wrong by leading you on like this while seeing another girl. You deserve better than that. If I'm right (which I believe I am, but then again I'm still rather narcissistic too ) then you deserve much, much better than that.

[LinkWorshiper]

Minneloa,

 

You're right. But even in all this stuff, he reaches out to me with his woes. Maybe he knows I want to be there for him. I have tried to make boundaries with him, but he always manages to get around them somehow... whether it's getting upset or doing something that plays on my affections. I used to be so sure he was just depressed, but now I'm afraid he's playing me. But I'm also afraid to do anything too knee-jerk since my knee-jerk pressuring about this other girl he's seeing incited an argument that's possibly put a damper on our interactions and it freaks me out that I'm just tearing things down and screwing myself over.