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In Search Of... Having a hard time forming friendships or finding companions, lovers, or associates? Is someone pursuing an unwelcome relationship with you? Talk about your experiences here.

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Old 31st October 2017, 3:13 PM   #61
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I can't say its true of CnD, but I think some people just get lost in the "attractive people have everyone just lined up" thought process...If they have some "quirk" or negative energy, then they may get a glance, but that aspect of their persona winds up becoming a liability, IME...

For a man to have interest in a woman, its more than looks, even for guys that place heavy value on looks...

For example...I can't deal with anyone that has a "nervous energy" about them...I have customers like this...Some even very attractive women...I want them to leave as soon as possible...They make me uncomfortable in their presence...it becomes exhausting just interacting with them for 5 minutes...When they leave I breathe a sigh of relief....And it doesn't even have to be anything they said-they could have said nothing at all-, just their vibe or body language...


IMO, Guys generally like women who are warm, confident, and "inviting" ...Not like a rat in a snakes cage...In those cases, the warm and confident average looking woman gets more male attention than the awkward and nervous looker...


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Old 31st October 2017, 3:31 PM   #62
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But The socio-political climate creates this really hostile undertone and insinuation that women don't want to be bothered, approached, or spoken to by men they don't know while they're just trying to live their lives. If you told me I had to try and ask out a stranger at the store, I'm not sure I could do it, not out of fear of rejection, but more so out of fear of her feeling threatened and writing some viral blog post for Salon about how she should be able to shop for pears without men harassing her. I have no fear of women or rejection, I fear the assumption that I'm a threat. That's the world we live in.
You live on a coast, right? The above concept sounds alien to me here in the Midwest. If I go to a supermarket it is more likely than not that I will talk to somebody. It's not flirting, just the habit of talking to strangers.

This makes the above discussion about harrassment in public seem oddly surreal to me.
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Old 31st October 2017, 3:56 PM   #63
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I am on the west coast and I agree with Cptinsano:

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But The socio-political climate creates this really hostile undertone and insinuation that women don't want to be bothered, approached, or spoken to by men they don't know while they're just trying to live their lives. If you told me I had to try and ask out a stranger at the store, I'm not sure I could do it, not out of fear of rejection, but more so out of fear of her feeling threatened and writing some viral blog post for Salon about how she should be able to shop for pears without men harassing her. I have no fear of women or rejection, I fear the assumption that I'm a threat. That's the world we live in.
Is this something you have experienced first hand? Or something you have percieved from reading about the topic?

I chat with people in the grocery store every time I go. I make eye contact often (which invites conversation) or I will start up some small talk - Ha, yesterday it was complaining to a guy how the store is always out of broccoli. And then we talked about different ways to cook cauliflower - and we kept bumping into each other in the store, and I could tell he was now making excuses to talk to me - so I mentioned how I was picking up dinner for my husband and I, no harm no foul.

And I have been cold approached in the grocery store before – straight got asked out in the yogurt aisle. I was flatted… not offended.

I wonder if this angst is based in reality (that women would take such offense) or if its anxiety talking.

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For a man to have interest in a woman, its more than looks, even for guys that place heavy value on looks...

For example...I can't deal with anyone that has a "nervous energy" about them...I have customers like this...Some even very attractive women...I want them to leave as soon as possible...They make me uncomfortable in their presence...it becomes exhausting just interacting with them for 5 minutes...When they leave I breathe a sigh of relief....And it doesn't even have to be anything they said-they could have said nothing at all-, just their vibe or body language...

IMO, Guys generally like women who are warm, confident, and "inviting" ...Not like a rat in a snakes cage...In those cases, the warm and confident average looking woman gets more male attention than the awkward and nervous looker...
Oh my gosh this is so true.

I feel like such a new age hippy to use the word “energy” but YES, nervous energy drives me CRAZY. I can’t get away from them fast enough (I don’t like “nervous energy” animals like small nervous dogs etc either).

And I do think that plays a big role in being approachable. I am pretty “chill”, it generally takes a lot to ruffle me, especially in a social setting. If you come off as relaxed, warm, welcoming person, the kind that people want to snuggle up to, I think it’s a lot easier
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Old 31st October 2017, 4:03 PM   #64
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You live on a coast, right? The above concept sounds alien to me here in the Midwest. If I go to a supermarket it is more likely than not that I will talk to somebody. It's not flirting, just the habit of talking to strangers.

This makes the above discussion about harrassment in public seem oddly surreal to me.
Yeah, there's definitely a regional component to it, I'm sure. I'm in the center of Manhattan where people are crammed together uncomfortably and have a reputation of always being busy, insular, in a rush, and in a heightened sense of alert (people coming in from the bad parts of the city, terrorism, general underhandedness). People are less trustworthy of each other here, I think. Time is money, no one has enough of either, so engaging strangers in drawn out, unnecessary conversation can be like asking for something valuable from them. Being quick and efficient is "polite" here. Being folksy and slow moving is going to generate some groans and eye rolls. If you're a guy and you try and talk to a woman you don't know without any noticeable purpose, not only are you taking her precious time, there's also the possibility that you have ill intention by nature of being a stranger in a big, uncaring metropolis. Combine that with the current intersection of politics and feminism and it can feel a bit like walking on eggshells at times. If I see single women at the gym, eating at the grocery store cafe, or wherever, I keep a safe distance from them just because I assume they'd prefer it that way.

I'm not saying any woman who you talk to is going to accuse you of harassment. But I'm saying that there are a multitude of reasons why if I saw Cookies at the grocery store, I'd be very hesitant to say anything to her in the way that she wishes guys would, and it's not for disinterest, it's for her sense of safety. The good has to be taken with the bad, if you want guys to approach you randomly, you've got to accept that some of them might not have the best intentions. It's just an assumption I don't want to be made about me.

Maybe it's an urban and geographical thing because you're right, there's not the same feeling in the suburbs or in the Midwest from my experience.
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Old 31st October 2017, 4:28 PM   #65
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I'm not saying any woman who you talk to is going to accuse you of harassment. But I'm saying that there are a multitude of reasons why if I saw Cookies at the grocery store, I'd be very hesitant to say anything to her in the way that she wishes guys would, and it's not for disinterest, it's for her sense of safety. The good has to be taken with the bad, if you want guys to approach you randomly, you've got to accept that some of them might not have the best intentions. It's just an assumption I don't want to be made about me.
Really?! Sorry, but I don't think guys are reluctant to approach women because of a sense of chivalry.

I think the OP got it right. It's because guys hate getting rejected. Apparently it dents their egos too much and they can't handle it. So they play it safe and don't even try.

At least this has definitely been my experience. And I'm in the suburban Midwest, btw.
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Old 31st October 2017, 6:07 PM   #66
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Is this something you have experienced first hand? Or something you have percieved from reading about the topic?
I think it's a combination of this city's culture, personal inclinations, anec dotal evidence/experience from others (women), and yes, the news cycle. It's hard not to look at the news or a social media feed without seeing something I think is relatively innocuous (the Google memo, for example) causing people to lose their minds and suggest that straight, white, men are evil and not to be trusted. You read it often enough and wonder to what extent it reflects peoples' opinions in reality. I'm not saying there aren't horrible people out there that shouldn't be trusted, I'm just saying it's easier for me if I don't do anything that might lump me in with them. I'd hate to make people feel unsafe or uncomfortable, so I just don't roll the dice in situations like that.

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And I do think that plays a big role in being approachable. I am pretty “chill”, it generally takes a lot to ruffle me, especially in a social setting. If you come off as relaxed, warm, welcoming person, the kind that people want to snuggle up to, I think it’s a lot easier
Other than a bar or party, the place I get approached most is in the gym, by other men. I'm not homophobic, but it's just forward, unwanted attention I'd rather not deal with. So when I'm there I make an effort to always have my headphones in, avoid eye contact with everyone, lift intensely, and always have a murderous look on my face, but it still happens regardless of approachable-ness. So when I get that, I can assume a woman would feel the same about me trying something similar with her. So I don't bother with girls who don't take the first, even tiniest, step themselves.

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Really?! Sorry, but I don't think guys are reluctant to approach women because of a sense of chivalry.
Well, that's the way it is for me in this city. I'm a respectful, well-meaning person. I don't like the thought that I might be making people uncomfortable or be perceived as a threat. I eat at crowded cafe for lunch every day, and even if there's an empty seat, I probably won't take it if it's next a single woman who looks like she's trying to mind her own business. If I do take the seat under other conditions, I try to find one with a decent buffer of empty seats, headphones are in, no eye contact is made with anyone. I avoid families with children too. There are times where I manage to get a table to myself, a family will be in the area looking to sit down, and it's honestly just easier for me to get up and let them have the table than try and eat at the same table with the kids staring at me nervously.

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I think the OP got it right. It's because guys hate getting rejected. Apparently it dents their egos too much and they can't handle it. So they play it safe and don't even try.
I'm sure some do. I'm just saying, that's not the only reason they aren't talking to Cookies. Women have so much power to determine what's "creepy" and "not creepy." I just take every precaution not to fall into the former camp, which can be a scarlet letter under some circumstances. I don't make conversations with women I don't know, and I don't date women who don't give me some very clear indicator that that's exactly what they want. For those reasons, I don't think I've ever really experienced rejection like that described here. I only play the hands I know I'm going to win, and I'm fine with that. My MO has always been to be the trustworthy, respectable guy women run to rather than the overly-aggressive, creepy guy they run from, and those archetypes are very prevalent today. A lot of my friends have the same attitude (maybe not to the extent I do). And it's worked well, I know how to project a decent, safe, vibe (honesty and some self-deprecation help) and women always respond well to it.

Am I overreacting and potentially missing out on other women by trying so hard not to make them uncomfortable? I'm sure of it. But that's fine with me. I accept that I'm creating a white space between myself and girls like Cookies. The more welcoming, signaling, aggressive girl is going to get me, and the ones that expect me to walk up to them in the grocery store under the threat of being called discomforting, micro-aggressive, creepy, worse, or whatever people are worried about today, probably won't. Yes, that's an exaggeration, but the basic thesis is there. It works for me. I don't fear rejection, I fear others' fear and perceptions of me in conjunction with the current culture, especially in NYC.
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Old 31st October 2017, 6:15 PM   #67
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Women have so much power to determine what's "creepy" and "not creepy." I just take every precaution not to fall into the former camp, which can be a scarlet letter under some circumstances.
This is very true. Years ago, I was labelled "creepy" for sharing my umbrella with a woman on a rainy night. Word got to the receptionist in my company, who happens to be a gossip. While I'd hesitate to say it hurt my reputation, imagine what would have happened if I'd actually hit on that woman.

While I still made a lot of cold approaches after that experience, I did so more intelligently. Would I hit on a woman in a grocery store I go to all of the time? Only if she threw out a welcome mat. Would I hit on a woman in a store I rarely go? Certainly.
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Old 31st October 2017, 7:02 PM   #68
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This is very true. Years ago, I was labelled "creepy" for sharing my umbrella with a woman on a rainy night. Word got to the receptionist in my company, who happens to be a gossip. While I'd hesitate to say it hurt my reputation, imagine what would have happened if I'd actually hit on that woman.
Yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing I want absolutely no part of. Easier to avoid entirely. Yes, there are "creepy" guys out there and they need to be dealt with. Women should feel safe, and I know it's hard to tell when situations will be safe and won't be, but there's got to a better method of defense out there than blanket cries of "wolf" at any guy who happens to look at them longer than he should.

I understand why this happens. The biggest part of the problem is men who are overly aggressive and/or can't handle rejection easily enough create stories, memories, and headlines that are impactful enough to spark exponential fear in many others. So assuming any man is a threat becomes a preventative measure against a horror story. But lots of women also don't help the situation when they get too liberal in the definition of threatening or creepy, expanding it from "lecherous and concerning" to "anyone I don't want to be seen with who crosses the smallest line in any conceivable way."

I'm not sure if there's an easy solution to this other than people needing to learn to take rejection with humility, and those doing the rejecting to do it in the least objectionable way possible if the situation calls for it.
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Old 31st October 2017, 8:19 PM   #69
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I'm not sure if there's an easy solution to this other than people needing to learn to take rejection with humility
humility? Nah, I prefer to take rejection nonchalantly. Rejections are nothing personal. Everyone has their preference on the type of people they want to date, I have mine too. There are so many reason why rejections can occur that it's not worth stressing over.
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Old 31st October 2017, 8:43 PM   #70
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humility? Nah, I prefer to take rejection nonchalantly. Rejections are nothing personal. Everyone has their preference on the type of people they want to date, I have mine too. There are so many reason why rejections can occur that it's not worth stressing over.
Humility not as in "embarassment," but as in lack of arrogance. In which your description applies.
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Old 1st November 2017, 7:06 AM   #71
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I can't say its true of CnD, but I think some people just get lost in the "attractive people have everyone just lined up" thought process...If they have some "quirk" or negative energy, then they may get a glance, but that aspect of their persona winds up becoming a liability, IME...

For a man to have interest in a woman, its more than looks, even for guys that place heavy value on looks...

For example...I can't deal with anyone that has a "nervous energy" about them...I have customers like this...Some even very attractive women...I want them to leave as soon as possible...They make me uncomfortable in their presence...it becomes exhausting just interacting with them for 5 minutes...When they leave I breathe a sigh of relief....And it doesn't even have to be anything they said-they could have said nothing at all-, just their vibe or body language...


IMO, Guys generally like women who are warm, confident, and "inviting" ...Not like a rat in a snakes cage...In those cases, the warm and confident average looking woman gets more male attention than the awkward and nervous looker...


TFY
I"m living proof that a woman can be attractive and not have men lined up. Since high school, i've been called beautiful and gorgeous by men and women. Ive also spent most of my adult life single.

Most guys my age walk right past me, but men who are 50 and up ask me out. Oftentimes I'll be ignored or sexually assaulted, stalked, etc. Its sometimes like there's no in between. Mostly men will come to me for sex then date or marry someone quite plain. A man doesn't need a beauty queen to find a woman attractive.

The only way I could line up a bunch of men is with OLD. I've had very few men actually try to get to know me. Some guys don't understand this, but a lot of women don't want to be treated like a piece of meat. All the offers for sex get old, and sometimes they are not offers...I'd rather be left alone than for a man to pretend he liked me (this has happened) to try to get sex. I'd rather be alone than deal with men who want to get sex out of me then leave.

I don't like clubs. I like creative things like writing and dancing. I can be quiet sometimes, too.
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Old 1st November 2017, 8:51 AM   #72
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I"m living proof that a woman can be attractive and not have men lined up. Since high school, i've been called beautiful and gorgeous by men and women. Ive also spent most of my adult life single.

Most guys my age walk right past me, but men who are 50 and up ask me out. Oftentimes I'll be ignored or sexually assaulted, stalked, etc. Its sometimes like there's no in between. Mostly men will come to me for sex then date or marry someone quite plain. A man doesn't need a beauty queen to find a woman attractive.

The only way I could line up a bunch of men is with OLD. I've had very few men actually try to get to know me. Some guys don't understand this, but a lot of women don't want to be treated like a piece of meat. All the offers for sex get old, and sometimes they are not offers...I'd rather be left alone than for a man to pretend he liked me (this has happened) to try to get sex. I'd rather be alone than deal with men who want to get sex out of me then leave.
This has been my experience as well. I mean, I know I'm good looking. I have a pretty face and a perfect figure, and I even model on the side. And my friends are even always telling me 'hey, so and so likes you' or 'so and so thinks you're really hot'. Yet it is very rare for a decent guy to actually approach me and ask me out.

Usually, I'll get the same response you do. When it seems to be a nice guy or guys, they will just whisper and talk and ogle me, but apparently are too shy to actually talk to me. It's only the creepy guy or guys who will approach me, and they will act completely juvenile and it's obvious that all they want is to use me for sex. I've even had creepy guys walk up to me out of nowhere and blatantly hit on me when I'm out with my bf! I mean my bf is right there, and they still go for it! A couple times my bf almost got physical with them.

So yeah, it's seems there is no in between here. The desirable guys are too shy and 'nice' to hit on you, but the creeps keep coming out of the woodwork to constantly harass you. You just can't win.
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Old 1st November 2017, 9:21 AM   #73
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This has been my experience as well. I mean, I know I'm good looking. I have a pretty face and a perfect figure, and I even model on the side. And my friends are even always telling me 'hey, so and so likes you' or 'so and so thinks you're really hot'. Yet it is very rare for a decent guy to actually approach me and ask me out.

Usually, I'll get the same response you do. When it seems to be a nice guy or guys, they will just whisper and talk and ogle me, but apparently are too shy to actually talk to me. It's only the creepy guy or guys who will approach me, and they will act completely juvenile and it's obvious that all they want is to use me for sex. I've even had creepy guys walk up to me out of nowhere and blatantly hit on me when I'm out with my bf! I mean my bf is right there, and they still go for it! A couple times my bf almost got physical with them.

So yeah, it's seems there is no in between here. The desirable guys are too shy and 'nice' to hit on you, but the creeps keep coming out of the woodwork to constantly harass you. You just can't win.
Oh yes. Once i was in a movie theater, minding my own business. A guy came from nowhere, sat next to me, and offered to perform acts on me. I was wearing a floor length dress, too. I know all about the creeps.
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Old 1st November 2017, 9:36 AM   #74
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This has been my experience as well. I mean, I know I'm good looking. I have a pretty face and a perfect figure, and I even model on the side. And my friends are even always telling me 'hey, so and so likes you' or 'so and so thinks you're really hot'. Yet it is very rare for a decent guy to actually approach me and ask me out.
I think most guys will go for friendly and approachable, which is not necessarily related to beauty. They are not maximizing the potential gain but the likelihood of success, in turn minimizing the risk of rejection. This leaves creeps who might even get excited by the confrontational approach.
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Old 1st November 2017, 9:41 AM   #75
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I"m living proof that a woman can be attractive and not have men lined up. Since high school, i've been called beautiful and gorgeous by men and women. Ive also spent most of my adult life single.

Most guys my age walk right past me, but men who are 50 and up ask me out. Oftentimes I'll be ignored or sexually assaulted, stalked, etc. Its sometimes like there's no in between. Mostly men will come to me for sex then date or marry someone quite plain. A man doesn't need a beauty queen to find a woman attractive.

The only way I could line up a bunch of men is with OLD. I've had very few men actually try to get to know me. Some guys don't understand this, but a lot of women don't want to be treated like a piece of meat. All the offers for sex get old, and sometimes they are not offers...I'd rather be left alone than for a man to pretend he liked me (this has happened) to try to get sex. I'd rather be alone than deal with men who want to get sex out of me then leave.

I don't like clubs. I like creative things like writing and dancing. I can be quiet sometimes, too.

So, what do YOU(and the other poster) think is the problem??

I know this....A woman that projects "cold" won't get anywhere with any guys worth a shyt- It wont matter much what they look like.....And the problem is that we are training/schooling young women to be more like men...More assertive, dominant, etc...All traits guys really don't want in a woman, they get enough of that from their male counterparts.....Confidence and self asseredness? Absolutely....But the women that are successful know not to lose the features that attract good men...Its a fine line..

TFY

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