Are Monogamous LTRs Still Possible?

[TunaInTheBrine]

I consider myself to be a reasonably attractive, successful, 'good catch' of a guy in his early-mid thirties. I am muscular, run a successful six-figure business, am talented musically and artistically, and have a lot of experience with women. I'm a little short (5'6") but I've never felt it to be much of an issue because I know how to facilitate attraction and chemistry. So, I tend to pursue women who are also similarly attractive to me, and of upper-middle to upper class socioeconomic status. I have probably been on a thousand dates and slept with close to 100 women.

 

In the last few years, I've found it incredibly hard to meet women in this category who want a stable, mature, monogamous LTR. I've talked to women who are not as attractive/have fewer options, and who find monogamy appealing. I'm starting to wonder if more physically attractive women are less interested in monogamy today because they can provide for themselves, are in demand, and don't have to deal with the unpleasant aspects of commitment since they are always guaranteed a variety of interesting options. Some might call it 'attractive female privilege'. I don't know.

 

My last two 'girlfriends' either cheated on me or were planning to. I decided to try open relationships for a while to see if I could be in an LTR of some sort that way, but I found that the women were not so considerate of their partners and were more in search of meeting their own needs (which IMO is not definitional of a two-way relationship). I would have gladly settled into a relationship of any orientation that was committed, intimate, and prized the importance of the relationship...not just the individual needs of the parties involved (if that makes sense).

 

Tonight, I went on a date with a woman who seemed so interested in love, and then I learned she was highly suspect of monogamy and didn't seem enthusiastic about the realities of what love entails. She was interested in exploring open relationships. I felt so discouraged and disappointed. It seems like I keep coming up against this over and over again. Women who want it all.

 

I am feeling discouraged. I am starting to feel like the odds are stacked against men who want monogamous relationships with attractive women. As a guy, it gets tiring approaching all the time, being the leader/pursuer, etc... I know LTRs come with problems, but I WANT those problems more than the problems of casual/non-monogamous dating, and I don't want to have to settle for a woman who is far below my league.

 

What do you guys think? Is it still possible to have a monogamous LTR with an attractive woman? I'm wondering if a monogamous LTR is what I really want if I need to go below my league in order to get one? I don't know anymore, but I'm feeling discouraged. I can attract women, bed them, etc... but I really, really want the real thing.

Edited September 8, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[Dis]

Wow...

 

I'm really surprised by this

 

Maybe you're just running into the wrong attractive women lately... I would never consider an open relationship

 

The women you've delt sound awful

 

Maybe try fishing from a different pond

[Mkn1010]

I'm also extremely surprised by this as I find this with most men, NOT WOMEN! Isn't it actually commonly written about, as in men and their biological make-up dating back to evolution making them wired to 'spread their seed' and therefore monogamy is an unrealistic modern construct that women should not expect. Maybe women are just sick of being heart-broken and give no f**ks anymore!!

[The Urbanyst]

Attractive women have options. If they don't believe you are their best possible option, you won't get commitment from them. Simple as that.

 

While you sound good/attractive on paper, its clear that something about your personality makes attractive women believe they can do better. Hens the cheating and losing interest.

 

Me thinks you might come off too thirsty or desperate.

 

I'm also extremely surprised by this as I find this with most men, NOT WOMEN! Isn't it actually commonly written about, as in men and their biological make-up dating back to evolution making them wired to 'spread their seed' and therefore monogamy is an unrealistic modern construct that women should not expect. Maybe women are just sick of being heart-broken and give no f**ks anymore!!

 

Only attractive men can use the "spread your seed" dating strategy. Other men have to take what they can get, pay prostitutes or lower their standards significantly.

[TunaInTheBrine]

 

Me thinks you might come off too thirsty or desperate.

 

 

I've wondered about this. I think I'm experienced enough to at least repress the overt behaviors and verbalizations of someone who wants a relationship very badly, but deep inside, I crave it immensely.

 

I have a very traumatic history loaded with abandonment. My father left when I was a child. My mother was an abusive alcoholic and died when I was 19. Multiple friends who I had for years eventually betrayed me, and many since have used me. I've known more than a fair share of narcissists.

 

For a long time, I would say that it was my fault to some extent. I put myself in bad situations with people who were not healthy, because I wanted to finally have a mature real relationship so badly that I was willing to overlook a lot of red flags. But these days, I am more likely to see the signs early on and duck out.

 

But I still haven't met someone who both wants the real thing and wants me, and I don't know why. I think I'm a really great catch. Attractive, fit, successful, smart, funny, talented, open to change, etc... I think I would make an amazing husband and father. I know I would!

 

But I haven't been able to find someone attractive who wants the real thing with me. Only non-monogamous daters, cheaters, or people who simply don't know what they want. Some nights I wonder if it's really worth holding on to hope for a real relationship, or if at some point I need to figure out how to live a life without any real friends or hope of having a family.

 

I've literally got everything I ever wanted in life. I came from nothing and built myself up. I've been with more women than most men ever will. But at the end of the day, I just can't enjoy life fully unless I have someone to share it with. If that comes off as desperation, I don't know what more to do to repress it. We're relational beings, and I can't live alone like this forever. And maybe that's what some women pick up on. I don't know. But I do pace things slowly, focus more on what would be the healthy way to do things versus jumping in because I crave it, etc... I set limits with myself.

 

But yeah, I'm thirsty...dehydrated even.

Edited September 8, 2017 by TunaInTheBrine

[Steve51]

I am married for 45 years and my wife agrees with me that had we been monogamous, we would have divorced a long time ago. Not that we went out of our way to have sex with others, just that if it happened it was not a deal killer. We chose to put our marriage before all else, even monogamy.

 

Only society says that having sex with someone other than your spouse is the worse sin of all. Sex can be just sex but men are insecure about their penises and sexual abilities and women are insecure about their sexual skills and attractiveness. We had less than 10 outside sex partners combined in 45 years. I know couples into swinging that would call that a slow month. What we had is best described in the article below. Most think it horrible but those who did so are all divorced, some more than once. Most people are serial monogamist. They think that the only way to have sex with someone else for a night or two is to first destroy the life you made with your spouse, displace your kids, divide your property so you both end up poor due to the divorce. Then, and only then is it morally correct to have sex with someone else. In our case we just kept on going and even shared a girlfriend for 30 years as it was safer than each of us having different girlfriends. We made non monogamy work and we never once even had an argument due to our sex lifestyle. Not one.

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201310/the-curious-couples-guide-occasional-non-monogamy

[Mkn1010]

I've wondered about this. I think I'm experienced enough to at least repress the overt behaviors and verbalizations of someone who wants a relationship very badly, but deep inside, I crave it immensely.

 

I have a very traumatic history loaded with abandonment. My father left when I was a child. My mother was an abusive alcoholic and died when I was 19. Multiple friends who I had for years eventually betrayed me, and many since have used me. I've known more than a fair share of narcissists.

 

For a long time, I would say that it was my fault to some extent. I put myself in bad situations with people who were not healthy, because I wanted to finally have a mature real relationship so badly that I was willing to overlook a lot of red flags. But these days, I am more likely to see the signs early on and duck out.

 

But I still haven't met someone who both wants the real thing and wants me, and I don't know why. I think I'm a really great catch. Attractive, fit, successful, smart, funny, talented, open to change, etc... I think I would make an amazing husband and father. I know I would!

 

But I haven't been able to find someone attractive who wants the real thing with me. Only non-monogamous daters, cheaters, or people who simply don't know what they want. Some nights I wonder if it's really worth holding on to hope for a real relationship, or if at some point I need to figure out how to live a life without any real friends or hope of having a family.

 

I've literally got everything I ever wanted in life. I came from nothing and built myself up. I've been with more women than most men ever will. But at the end of the day, I just can't enjoy life fully unless I have someone to share it with. If that comes off as desperation, I don't know what more to do to repress it. We're relational beings, and I can't live alone like this forever. And maybe that's what some women pick up on. I don't know. But I do pace things slowly, focus more on what would be the healthy way to do things versus jumping in because I crave it, etc... I set limits with myself.

 

But yeah, I'm thirsty...dehydrated even.

 

 

Honestly wish I'd come across guys like you via OLD!!

[SammySammy]

Relationships like that require compromise.

 

Like you, an attractive professional woman has everything she wants. Without having to compromise part of who she is or what she wants to have a man.

 

All she really needs is a lover. Occasionally, someone to do things with. Arm candy for that company event. A companion for a night out or a vacation partner.

 

She can have those without a marriage certificate. And still live her life as she pleases. She can even have children if she chooses on her own terms.

 

What you've noticed is something many people don't pay attention to. A realm they are usually unaware of. I've decided not to fight it. That's the type of woman I've always tended to date. It works for some of us.

 

You don't have to be married to someone to share your life with them. Two of the women I'm involved with are much like my wives. They know me well and I know them. I've been with them for eight years. I think that qualifies as an LTR. I've been with the third for a shorter period of time, but many would still consider it long-term. We share our lives daily and have over an extended period of time.

 

The point is we do what works for us. Without feeling the need to explain to anyone. People can call it what they want. Lovers and friends. FWBs. Understandings. None of those labels matter. All that matters is how we treat each other and does each person get what they want or need from the relationship.

 

Sure, you can find an attractive professional woman who wants to get married. It's possible. Just don't be surprised if you continue to find many who aren't willing to compromise and who are looking for something else.

[GemmaUK]

How do you get to talking about monogamy on a first date OP?

[elaine567]

TITB

Do you divulge or even hint at your sexual history?

Sleeping with 100 women, may impress many men but it tends to be a no-go for your average woman who wants a LTR. Even in this thread you seem to be so proud of the number of women you have bedded... That will not gain you Brownie pints in the world of monogamy and commitment. If you want to be seen as husband and father material then you have to act like it.

 

I guess you are also fishing in the wrong pool. I guess you are still choosing women who are "dead certs" in the bedroom department as opposed to women who are "dead cert" wife and gf material.

OR

perhaps you are giving off a "player" vibe, hence why you are attracting like-minded female "players" and women in "open" arrangements, and you are thus repelling those who want commitment.

Great fun, casual and fine for a fling, but not real bf/husband material.

Just a thought.

[TunaInTheBrine]

How do you get to talking about monogamy on a first date OP?

 

I talk about relationships for a living internationally. Don't laugh.

[TunaInTheBrine]

TITB

Do you divulge or even hint at your sexual history?

Sleeping with 100 women, may impress many men but it tends to be a no-go for your average woman who wants a LTR. Even in this thread you seem to be so proud of the number of women you have bedded... That will not gain you Brownie pints in the world of monogamy and commitment. If you want to be seen as husband and father material then you have to act like it.

 

I guess you are also fishing in the wrong pool. I guess you are still choosing women who are "dead certs" in the bedroom department as opposed to women who are "dead cert" wife and gf material.

OR

perhaps you are giving off a "player" vibe, hence why you are attracting like-minded female "players" and women in "open" arrangements, and you are thus repelling those who want commitment.

Great fun, casual and fine for a fling, but not real bf/husband material.

Just a thought.

 

No, I don't talk about my sexual history.

 

I mention here though to guard against any impressions that I'm inexperienced and looking to settle because I have no options.

 

I hope I'm not giving off a player vibe. I'd say in the past, yes.

[Bastile]

Where are you meeting these women? If it's online dating, get off of there. See your dynamics improve drastically just from that.

 

If the women you are going out with are feminist types, filter them out. See your dynamics improve drastically from that too.

 

Learn and love the game. Don't see or use it as a merely a means to an end (doing x just to achieve y).

[Gr8fuln2020]

I agree with others, the idea that women, even attractive women, are not interested in a LTR, monogamous relationship is foreign to me. I've OLDed for some time and I don't ever recall getting any vibes that a lady did not want a stable, monogamous relationship.

 

Of course, I discover early on whether the person I am dating has the same values as I do and I steer clear of anyone who isn't looking for something monogamous.

 

I'm currently dating a beautiful woman and we decided to be exclusive after the first date. She's shown every indication that a LTR, monogamous relationship is what she desires.

 

Are you being far less discriminating b/c you are frustrated? So, more and more women you meet may not have the same values?

 

I can also see how some ladies have become so disenchanted that they feel a LTR is a pipe-dream or unlikely. So, initially they settle for a short term relationship and hope for the best. Until you make a mistake of some kind...

Edited September 8, 2017 by simpleNfit

[TunaInTheBrine]

Where are you meeting these women? If it's online dating, get off of there. See your dynamics improve drastically just from that.

 

If the women you are going out with are feminist types, filter them out. See your dynamics improve drastically from that too.

 

Learn and love the game. Don't see or use it as a merely a means to an end (doing x just to achieve y).

 

Ha! Very true points, Bastile.

 

I don't use OLD exclusively, but it's a part of my approach. I've been thinking of eliminating it lately though. I prefer approaching women in public and meeting them at social events.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Are you being far less discriminating b/c you are frustrated? So, more and more women you meet may not have the same values?

 

This could be part of it, probably. It's also a population concentration problem, I think. I live in Boston, and there's a surge of non-monogamy happening here.

[Chilli]

Never come across it myself.

l never use to date before l was married just met people and since divorce then met gf, so l still haven;t. But man , sounds like it's so effd up out there, can't believe the crap l read and hear.

 

Never had that one though , one reason l don't date or just go screwin round, always gets complicated . Use to in my 20s before l was married , every time , and still does now, l do have great taste in women though haha but l find the exact opposite always have.

 

It must be about the type of women you go for.'

There's a quality your missing, no women l go for would wanna live like that.

[Els]

Personally, I've always desired monogamy in a LTR, as does my SO. Open relationships hold zero appeal for me and many of the women I know.

 

Possibly might be worth reexamining your people-picker - the type of personality that you find attractive, or your priorities in selecting a partner. If you are selecting solely based on looks and socioeconomic status, then naturally there will be many whose personalities and mindsets don't match yours.

 

I found that the women were not so considerate of their partners and were more in search of meeting their own needs

Unfortunately this does seem to be a byproduct of the recent "instant gratification" and "disposable" culture, and it impacts both genders. She doesn't put out by the 3rd date? Next! He didn't try to kiss you by the second date? Next! She showed up to a date without any makeup? Cut your losses, dude!.... So on and so forth.

[TunaInTheBrine]

 

If you are selecting solely based on looks and socioeconomic status, then naturally there will be many whose personalities and mindsets don't match yours.

 

 

 

Yeah, this is essentially the inquiry of my post - if expecting monogamous LTRs from women who are attractive and successful is a frivolous pursuit.

 

I would not look forward to dating below my league, getting with someone who is not slim and pretty and earns no money, just so I can have an LTR. That seems like a lonelier life to me than the one I'm in now.

[TunaInTheBrine]

Unfortunately this does seem to be a byproduct of the recent "instant gratification" and "disposable" culture, and it impacts both genders. She doesn't put out by the 3rd date? Next! He didn't try to kiss you by the second date? Next! She showed up to a date without any makeup? Cut your losses, dude!.... So on and so forth.

 

I agree 100%. People don't give each other chances anymore. It's brutal. Fortunately, I don't buy it. I actually believe in giving relationships a chance and putting in effort. Still waiting for someone to offer the same in return who wants to go the distance with me.

[Els]

Yeah, this is essentially the inquiry of my post - if expecting monogamous LTRs from women who are attractive and successful is a frivolous pursuit.

 

I would not look forward to dating below my league, getting with someone who is not slim and pretty and earns no money, just so I can have an LTR. That seems like a lonelier life to me than the one I'm in now.

 

It's not about whether "attractive" (a somewhat subjective definition) and "successful" (again, somewhat subjective, albeit less so than the former) women want LTRs or not. It's about the fact that we can only prioritize so many things. If a woman said that she wants a man who makes $500k a year, looks and talks like Benedict Cumberbatch, runs ultra-marathons and breaks records, goes to Africa every year to care for sick children, owns 10 houses, and cooks like Anthony Bourdain, and that she can't find such a man... Obviously, she would be told that she realistically needs to pick a few things and prioritize. That's just part of living in the real world.

 

If it's that important to you to have a woman "in your league" (personally, I never believed in that notion, especially as attractivity is so subjective, but each to their own) in terms of money and appearance (whatever that would mean), then you will need to accept that fulfilling additional criteria will be more difficult. Every criteria you add will increase the difficulty. Either you have to be willing to date more people and wait longer to find someone who meets all the criteria, or you have to reconsider your priorities. Both decisions are legitimate ones.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Elswyth

[sandylee1]

Something about the way you say "below your league", sounds unpleasant.

 

Women often want a man with more than them, not the same.

 

In the same way a not so slim woman may lower her expectations, a not so tall man may need to do the same.

 

There are loads of women looking for monogamy. Maybe it's just a case of bad luck for you.

[Els]

Something about the way you say "below your league", sounds unpleasant.

 

Women often want a man with more than them, not the same.

 

In the same way a not so slim woman may lower her expectations, a not so tall man may need to do the same.

 

There are loads of women looking for monogamy. Maybe it's just a case of bad luck for you.

 

Yeah, I was going to edit my post to add this.

 

Not only do you need to find someone who fulfills all of YOUR criteria (and is single etc), but you also need to fulfill all of HER criteria, which may not be the same as yours but are equally valid.

 

Personally, as a purely LTR person, I can't imagine being interested in a LTR with someone whose first priority is physical appearance or money, nor can most of the LTR-oriented people I know (regardless of gender or their own appearance/wealth). I wouldn't care about height, but this attitude would definitely be a dealbreaker for me.

[Caramelpopcorn]

Sounds like you've a type, no wonder this keeps happening over and over again. There's something in your picking process that leads you to reach this same result over and over again.

[Caramelpopcorn]

Yeah, this is essentially the inquiry of my post - if expecting monogamous LTRs from women who are attractive and successful is a frivolous pursuit.

 

I would not look forward to dating below my league, getting with someone who is not slim and pretty and earns no money, just so I can have an LTR. That seems like a lonelier life to me than the one I'm in now.

 

I don't think you're getting what relationships are actually like, REAL relationships. No one will check out all the boxes, just like you won't check all the boxes for them. I know how shallow this could sound, but I wouldn't date someone who isn't at least 6 FT tall, and this could bite me in the ass later.

 

You need to give other women a chance, even if they're not exactly what you want cause maybe what you want is not even real at all. Slim or making lots of money is something that can change with time. Keep that in mind.