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Ok, well I've been trying OLD for over a year now and I cannot get anything like a response from any woman. I send good messages (according to the advice on the site's forums) and my photos are as good as I can make them. But because I'm clearly ugly and not tall I get ignored every time. The trouble now is that it's totally destroyed my confidence away from OLD and I cannot see myself ever being attractive to any woman. I don't know how to get out of this hole.

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I don't know how to get out of this hole.

 

Relatively easy .. at least to make the start.

 

Leave OLD behind and don't look back. Honest to goodness now, unless you're a player type, looking for same, its a road to nowhere.

 

Get out and meet people, men, women, enjoy life ... the rest will take care of itself - you probably can't see that right now, but it will :)

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Relatively easy .. at least to make the start.

 

Leave OLD behind and don't look back. Honest to goodness now, unless you're a player type, looking for same, its a road to nowhere.

 

Get out and meet people, men, women, enjoy life ... the rest will take care of itself - you probably can't see that right now, but it will :)

 

I did that but as I say I just feel so ugly and unattractive now it's totally ruining my confidence. I got talking to this great woman in a bar a few months back and I'm certain she was flirting with me but I have so convinced myself that I'm hideously ugly that I rationalised it as her being friendly.

 

I genuinely don't get it. I know the cliché that women only go for tall, hot guys in OLD but they ALWAYS deny it. But if they don't only go for that, I MUST be seriously ugly. its such a head f#$k and no one is ever honest with you so how are you supposed to know?

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normal person

What's the population of your city? It might just be a case of a small sample size. You aren't going to catch fish in a puddle. You probably only find 2-3% of the population appealing, and you can assume that other people are as picky. So you need to meet or interact with a large number of individuals before you find one you like who also likes you. Your odds are better where there are more people. If you live somewhere tiny, that might be skewing your results.

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What's the population of your city? It might just be a case of a small sample size. You aren't going to catch fish in a puddle. You probably only find 2-3% of the population appealing, and you can assume that other people are as picky. So you need to meet or interact with a large number of individuals before you find one you like who also likes you. Your odds are better where there are more people. If you live somewhere tiny, that might be skewing your results.

 

London - it's huge.

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I would suggest you stop wearing yourself out and getting your confidence torn down by doing online dating since that relies mainly on looks.

 

My suggestion is you fill your time out in the world doing real physical activities among real people and see if you can't discover a social circle.

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I would suggest you stop wearing yourself out and getting your confidence torn down by doing online dating since that relies mainly on looks.

 

My suggestion is you fill your time out in the world doing real physical activities among real people and see if you can't discover a social circle.

 

I have several social circles. None of the women in them or who I've met through them have shown the slightest interest. I think looks are just as big a deal offline as on to be honest.

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I did that but as I say I just feel so ugly and unattractive now it's totally ruining my confidence. I got talking to this great woman in a bar a few months back and I'm certain she was flirting with me but I have so convinced myself that I'm hideously ugly that I rationalised it as her being friendly.

 

Thats the problem you've sourced via OLD. You've now just -got- to find a way past those internal feelings and just let new meet-n-greets go where they will.

 

Yes, sure, she might have been 'just friendly' - but theres nothing wrong with that. Have a nice friendly evening. Maybe even make a new long term friend (if it doesn't go further), but the trick is to build ones circle with friendlies and let the 'relationships' of the love type develop out of that circle. You know, meeting new friends via old ones, etc, etc.

 

I genuinely don't get it. I know the cliché that women only go for tall, hot guys in OLD but they ALWAYS deny it. But if they don't only go for that, I MUST be seriously ugly. its such a head f#$k and no one is ever honest with you so how are you supposed to know?

 

Don't over analyse it would be my advice. Ugly/hot/short/tall/thin/wide ... it all doesn't ultimately matter - theres someone out there for everyone. Don't -you- decide, or pre-decide on behalf of other people. Meet, greet and let the chips fall where they may.

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JuneJulySeptember
Ok, well I've been trying OLD for over a year now and I cannot get anything like a response from any woman. I send good messages (according to the advice on the site's forums) and my photos are as good as I can make them. But because I'm clearly ugly and not tall I get ignored every time. The trouble now is that it's totally destroyed my confidence away from OLD and I cannot see myself ever being attractive to any woman. I don't know how to get out of this hole.

 

 

Is there anything physically wrong with your face?

 

Like do you have any facial deformities?

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Is there anything physically wrong with your face?

 

Like do you have any facial deformities?

 

I think I do. It's not very symmetrical but it's nothing clinical. I used to think I looked ok, a 5/10 only but just somewhere in the middle. but that can't be the case as I just get nothing.

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JuneJulySeptember
I think I do. It's not very symmetrical but it's nothing clinical. I used to think I looked ok, a 5/10 only but just somewhere in the middle. but that can't be the case as I just get nothing.

 

If you're not disfigured, then you're fine. Even if you were, it's fine, but I'm just trying to make a point.

 

So, what if you are 'ugly'? What if no, or virtually no females think you're good looking or handsome?

 

You have 2 eyes, nostrils, ears, right? Do you want to be at the mercy of a superficial world, or do you want to base your confidence on something other than what your face looks like?

 

BTW ... a lot of guys get no, or virtually no females thinking they're hot or handsome, etc. It's pretty common.

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If you're not disfigured, then you're fine. Even if you were, it's fine, but I'm just trying to make a point.

 

So, what if you are 'ugly'? What if no, or virtually no females think you're good looking or handsome?

 

You have 2 eyes, nostrils, ears, right? Do you want to be at the mercy of a superficial world, or do you want to base your confidence on something other than what your face looks like?

 

BTW ... a lot of guys get no, or virtually no females thinking they're hot or handsome, etc. It's pretty common.

 

That's fine. But I keep reading that women don't put so much emphasis on looks, at least a decent percentage of them don't. So what makes me so repulsive? I mean I'd have thought at least 1 or 2 responses at least. I'm not asking for an instant marriage proposal.

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CaliforniaGirl

You can't say this...

 

I did that but as I say I just feel so ugly and unattractive now it's totally ruining my confidence. I got talking to this great woman in a bar a few months back and I'm certain she was flirting with me but I have so convinced myself that I'm hideously ugly that I rationalised it as her being friendly.

 

...and then say this.

 

I genuinely don't get it.

 

You are deliberately keeping women out of your life in order to keep up your belief system that women only like a certain type of guy...so much so that you literally don't give women who like YOUR type of guy the time of day. You effectively eliminate competing logic (that women like all types of guys, including you) from your psychology. Period. It's gone, dead.

 

There must be a reason you're doing this. I'd see a professional about it, personally. For whatever reason you are seriously invested in remaining a victim, alone, too "short," unwanted or however you're able to self-identify based on these actions.

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normal person
That's fine. But I keep reading that women don't put so much emphasis on looks, at least a decent percentage of them don't. So what makes me so repulsive? I mean I'd have thought at least 1 or 2 responses at least. I'm not asking for an instant marriage proposal.

 

Women typically care less about looks than men. I doubt you're repulsive, but that isn't the issue. Just having a profile and sending messages doesn't entitle you to anything. Is your profile any good? Is it appealing in any way? Is it funny? Is it interesting? Is it engaging? You need to reverse engineer womens' attraction. Think about why a woman would like a man (setting looks aside for now), and ask yourself if you're doing any of that. What are you expecting women to like about it so much? What do you think you've got that they're not seeing?

 

People are so quick to ask "why won't she respond to my message?" instead of "why on Earth would she?"

 

If I were you, I would audit my profile, and my whole life really, and make some changes. If you wanted to post the text of your profile here, I'm sure people would be happy to help with some suggestions.

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You can't say this...

 

 

 

...and then say this.

 

 

 

You are deliberately keeping women out of your life in order to keep up your belief system that women only like a certain type of guy...so much so that you literally don't give women who like YOUR type of guy the time of day. You effectively eliminate competing logic (that women like all types of guys, including you) from your psychology. Period. It's gone, dead.

 

There must be a reason you're doing this. I'd see a professional about it, personally. For whatever reason you are seriously invested in remaining a victim, alone, too "short," unwanted or however you're able to self-identify based on these actions.

 

I will respectfully disagree.

 

I am not deliberately keeping women out of my life. I'm assessing that the odds that this woman was attracted to me are longer than my instincts would have me believe. I've seen studies which say that unattractive men are prone to misreading friendliness as flirting in women. All the evidence from OLD suggests I'm very unattractive. it just doesn't add up that she was into me in that way.

 

I also think we jump to the advice to seek professional help too quickly. I don't really see what I've said that doesn't represent a realistic assessment of my situation. How someone who has been permanently rejected in over 300 attempts at a connection on dating apps could possibly believe he is anything but deeply unattractive is beyond me. In fact THAT guy would need the professional help.

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CaliforniaGirl
I will respectfully disagree.

 

I am not deliberately keeping women out of my life. I'm assessing that the odds that this woman was attracted to me are longer than my instincts would have me believe. I've seen studies which say that unattractive men are prone to misreading friendliness as flirting in women. All the evidence from OLD suggests I'm very unattractive. it just doesn't add up that she was into me in that way.

 

I also think we jump to the advice to seek professional help too quickly. I don't really see what I've said that doesn't represent a realistic assessment of my situation. How someone who has been permanently rejected in over 300 attempts at a connection on dating apps could possibly believe he is anything but deeply unattractive is beyond me. In fact THAT guy would need the professional help.

 

Oh, okay.

 

Well then you're right; you're "ugly," the situation is hopeless, OLD IS a direct reflection of real-life attempted meets and therefore "300 rejections" can totally be translated to in-person stats, and further this confirms that the real-life flirting you DID get was obviously bogus; meanwhile, therapy (for someone who outright calls himself literally ugly and then admits, again outright, that he has no confidence) would be useless.

 

Given all that, the only answer is, you will never have a date; give up the chase and accept the single life.

 

There isn't really any other answer since you're not willing to explore this. Good luck going forward.

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I would forget about on line dating. Just join recetational activities that are mixed genders.

 

Let it happen naturally. I would actually just forget about trying to find love. It will find you eventually. Its more important to find good people to interact with.

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I would forget about on line dating. Just join recetational activities that are mixed genders.

 

Let it happen naturally. I would actually just forget about trying to find love. It will find you eventually. Its more important to find good people to interact with.

 

Well I am doing a lot of activities so I agree.

 

I don't agree with your second point. It might work for people who are attractive. but no woman has ever told me they think I'm attractive, never told a mutual friend she fancies me, never obviously flirted with me. If I don't actively look for it then it will never happen.

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Oh, okay.

 

Well then you're right; you're "ugly," the situation is hopeless, OLD IS a direct reflection of real-life attempted meets and therefore "300 rejections" can totally be translated to in-person stats, and further this confirms that the real-life flirting you DID get was obviously bogus; meanwhile, therapy (for someone who outright calls himself literally ugly and then admits, again outright, that he has no confidence) would be useless.

 

Given all that, the only answer is, you will never have a date; give up the chase and accept the single life.

 

There isn't really any other answer since you're not willing to explore this. Good luck going forward.

 

So how is OLD not a reflection of real life? If anything it's a more accurate reflection because people are free to be honest in their wishes without feeling the need to abide by certain social niceties.

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CaliforniaGirl
So how is OLD not a reflection of real life? If anything it's a more accurate reflection because people are free to be honest in their wishes without feeling the need to abide by certain social niceties.

 

Exactly! Yup, you're right. It's kind of silly to listen to input you've asked for when you already "know," amiright? As I said, time to get into being single and accepting that as a lifestyle. Don't look any deeper into this. You have found your answer. I am so very sorry this has happened to you. Good luck, many single people lead productive lives.

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normal person
I don't really see what I've said that doesn't represent a realistic assessment of my situation. How someone who has been permanently rejected in over 300 attempts at a connection on dating apps could possibly believe he is anything but deeply unattractive is beyond me. In fact THAT guy would need the professional help.

 

You're using your lack of success with dating aps to justify your point when all it really concludes is that you're bad at using dating aps. Everything else is still inconclusive.

 

Women are much less picky about looks than men. So it's not so much a disadvantage as you think. In general, women are much more attracted to how men make them feel rather than how men look. Why do you think otherwise?

 

I will ask you again because you're still yet to answer: What are you expecting a woman to like about you that you feel is being overlooked? What are you bringing to the table that you're expecting to appeal to her?

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You're using your lack of success with dating aps to justify your point when all it really concludes is that you're bad at using dating aps. Everything else is still inconclusive.

 

Women are much less picky about looks than men. So it's not so much a disadvantage as you think. In general, women are much more attracted to how men make them feel rather than how men look. Why do you think otherwise?

 

I will ask you again because you're still yet to answer: What are you expecting a woman to like about you that you feel is being overlooked? What are you bringing to the table that you're expecting to appeal to her?

 

I'm intelligent (mensa iq), supremely well educated - extremely well versed in renaissance and baroque art, Shakespeare, architecture. Degree in Biological Anthropology. Very funny. Decent career. Good cook.

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normal person
I'm intelligent (mensa iq), supremely well educated - extremely well versed in renaissance and baroque art, Shakespeare, architecture. Degree in Biological Anthropology. Very funny. Decent career. Good cook.

 

If you're very funny, hopefully you have the funniest profile. If you've got an advanced degree, it can be noted easily in your info. If you're smart, I'm sure you can think of ways to demonstrate it tastefully, can't you? And honestly, if you're that smart, you don't need me to tell you this, or anyone else to assure you that your appeal to women is not solely tied to your looks. Far from it. I'm not sure what gave you that impression, I bet you've seen stunning women with less than stunning looking men. If I was as smart as you, I'd be observing everything, using pattern recognition, deconstructing it all, and applying what I learned elsewhere. You're so much smarter than everyone, you can figure this stuff out pretty easily if you don't simplify it as you have.

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So how is OLD not a reflection of real life? If anything it's a more accurate reflection because people are free to be honest in their wishes without feeling the need to abide by certain social niceties.

 

No, its really not. It might seem that way, but people having nothing to go on. Its simply shopping for bright shiny things.

 

If you put a colour page in front of me, with head or body shots of say 20 women and was asked to choose who to 'waste' the next 10 minutes of my life with then my eye will rapidly scan across all 20 photos and will rest upon the one which, in the absence of any other useful data, 'appeals' to my eye the most.

 

This is the problem. The top few percentiles of currently accepted 'beautiful' people, or those lucky enough to get a few good photos, will garner 95% of the interest ... this happens for both men and women. I mean, its no-ones fault, observers have literally nothing else to go on.

 

People have to be attracted to you, obviously. But OLD profiles is not the way, imho, to let potential mates get a view of the whole you. I'm not even talking about 'beauty is skin deep' here - its just that we can't form any realistic sort of connection based upon the 'luck' of a good photo.

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Cookiesandough

Let's just sayfor the sake of argument that there exists a person who is physically 'ugly' to everyone he's attracted to ( which I don't believe can be true).

 

 

Why would that person use a dating resource that is so focused on looks?

 

People online dating are looking at pics first. If they like the way you look, or you just take good pics, they might be compelled to read what you put in your profile..., your sense humor, your interests, your values, etc that you must squeeze into a short essay....that probably half the people are skimming

 

Wouldn't it be better for this person, who believes he's 'ugly' (but perhaps is just not photogenic or a good writer), meet people in ways he could first connect with on the 'inside' , show off his better qualities to generate attraction? Take up a new hobby, join a class, attend a hiking meetup?

Edited by Cookiesandough
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