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Is paying for dates a solution? [I.e. An "arrangement" type scenario?]


ZA Dater

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I.e. An "arrangement" type scenario?

 

I considered this a while back and am considering it again, there is something fundamentally off putting but seeing as its Sept and I haven't had one date this year....

 

There are many pitfalls and risks which cant really be mitigated against which are other reasons I find the idea off putting.

 

The other negative is I would know it was a sham from minute 1. Perhaps the slight plus is I could see it as just business but if I did that I may as well go out on my own.

 

I went back onto OkCupid a few weeks ago and tried what someone here said "stand out, give them a reason to get to know you" and that did net some responses but I went off these people almost as fast as they went off me.

 

I thought about going out and sitting at a bar, tried that before and I might be tall and slim but clearly not special enough from a look point of view for that method to succeed.

 

Is paying the final act in desperation? Its incredibly superficial and not really me but it just seems if I did this I may have the ability to

 

a) go on a date

b) have the ability to choose, at the moment I pretty much have to go with whoever takes a fancy to me (nobody) rather than go with them because I like them.

 

Today is one of those days where I sit, look around me, couples, people mixing and I sit here eating my lunch at a bar counter on my own, cant say this is a lovely feeling at all.

 

Some calm may return when I adopt my usual attitude of focussing back onto the work.

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Are you talking about hiring an escort?

 

Nope. There is site where basically its a pay to date and whatever else you want, I wouldn't be interested in the whatever else part but some company might be nice.

 

When I phrase it like that the idea seems ever more revolting

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JuneJulySeptember

You'd have to treat sex and companionship separately.

 

Sex is always easy to pay for. If you have a little bit of $, you can have sex with women who are substabtially hotter than any of the number of women who have been rejecting you.

 

As for companionship, tons of (especially younger) women just want attention from guys. Better than that is women who see you as a true friend.

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But "pay to date and whatever else you want" IS escorting, so what makes you think you will get better "companionship" (if you do not want sex) from a women willing to sell her services?

What do you think you will have in common with an escort?

 

Seems odd that you cannot compromise over doing the stuff that most people take as read ie go looking for a woman in a party, club or a bar, yet seem more willing to take a huge leap into the world of paying for sex...

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But "pay to date and whatever else you want" IS escorting, so what makes you think you will get better "companionship" (if you do not want sex) from a women willing to sell her services?

What do you think you will have in common with an escort?

 

Seems odd that you cannot compromise over doing the stuff that most people take as read ie go looking for a woman in a party, club or a bar, yet seem more willing to take a huge leap into the world of paying for sex...

 

Firstly I merely said companionship which isn't sex. An example, instead of eating lunch on my own I can eat lunch with someone.

 

I guess the fundamental difference is if I pay I am assured of not having to be rejected because it would simply be business and nothing more.

 

I'd gladly go to clubs barring the few fundamentals

: I don't dance

: I don't drink

 

Doing neither of things makes a club about as useful to me as going to mall wearing a bright Shrek outfit.

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Firstly I merely said companionship which isn't sex.

Yes, I am aware of that, but the people who accept payment for dates will not be assuming most men just want to go for lunch, will they?

So just because she is spending lunch with you doesn't not mean she didn't give her last "date" a BJ or the full repertoire in exchange for money.

You are still entering the world of paying for sex, even if you personally do not partake.

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Yes, I am aware of that, but the people who accept payment for dates will not be assuming most men just want to go for lunch, will they?

So just because she is spending lunch with you doesn't not mean she didn't give her last "date" a BJ or the full repertoire in exchange for money.

You are still entering the world of paying for sex, even if you personally do not partake.

 

I guess I would be if I went down this road. Not sure what she does with her last date is strictly relevant to me but I do understand the gist of that you are saying and its this which puts me off the idea. On the other hand I am looking around and not seeing my other viable open doors.

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I guess I would be if I went down this road. Not sure what she does with her last date is strictly relevant to me but I do understand the gist of that you are saying and its this which puts me off the idea. On the other hand I am looking around and not seeing my other viable open doors.

 

Have you considered moving to a third world country to date?

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Have you considered moving to a third world country to date?

 

I live in a third world country.

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I thought about going out and sitting at a bar, tried that before and I might be tall and slim but clearly not special enough from a look point of view for that method to succeed.

 

You don't need to pay. And you don't need to be "special enough" in your looks. When you are looking around, don't you see that some of these happy couples aren't exactly the hottest most beautiful people in the world?

 

Instead of just "sitting at a bar" waiting for someone to notice you, you have to get up and mingle. Talk to people. Play billiards or darts or dance - whatever your bar has to do. You have to smile at people and engage with them. You can buy people drinks then go over and talk with them. You gotta take the lead and let others know you are open to them.

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If you're going to pay, you might as well have sex.

 

Why order steak and potatoes and only eat the potatoes? Might as well have the steak too.

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You don't need to pay. And you don't need to be "special enough" in your looks. When you are looking around, don't you see that some of these happy couples aren't exactly the hottest most beautiful people in the world?

 

Instead of just "sitting at a bar" waiting for someone to notice you, you have to get up and mingle. Talk to people. Play billiards or darts or dance - whatever your bar has to do. You have to smile at people and engage with them. You can buy people drinks then go over and talk with them. You gotta take the lead and let others know you are open to them.

 

I probably cannot express properly how awkward I come off in person, I literally have nothing in common with people, politics, nobody is interested in that, writing nobody is interested in that, they all talk about chicks, booze and sport. Hardly my idea of fun. I don't dance either.

 

 

I have really tried to fit in, to be less awkward but it never really brings any results. I beat myself up about it a lot, spent many sleepless nights wondering why. Bought new clothes, new style, tried to project confidence, tried to build up muscle. All of this has yielded me nothing. No attention at all.

 

 

The problem is mine to own. The only way I could get anyone interested in me is to pay, a simply but really sad truth.

 

 

In truth its easier for me to spend my life working and try to forget what I want and I don't have.

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I would maybe look for different groups? Do they have something like meetup in your country? I mix pretty easily with people but I just don't enjoy it without the right group of people. It's taken awhile but I've found some groups I like socializing in.

 

I would also look at how to build self esteem. When people are confident they can draw people in. People who don't have that can often push people away.

 

If you want to go the pay route, I would look up threads by Robert Z (mostly in the sex forum) or PM him. He has quite a few threads about dating by going the pay route.

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Don't pay for it, just throwing away your money. If you don't have good luck on OKC then something you are using for your self-summary is not working. You have to make it simple and to the point. Don't use negative words or make it sound like you don't trust. OKC is ad you write and tell about you as a person (be honest) and then what your are seeking (tell the truth) otherwise you end up with the wrong type of women. Doesn't matter where you are in this world you just have to work with what you have and most of all have hope. Can't rush things, just let it happen. When it does don't make a good situation worst than it is?

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I would maybe look for different groups? Do they have something like meetup in your country? I mix pretty easily with people but I just don't enjoy it without the right group of people. It's taken awhile but I've found some groups I like socializing in.

 

I would also look at how to build self esteem. When people are confident they can draw people in. People who don't have that can often push people away.

 

If you want to go the pay route, I would look up threads by Robert Z (mostly in the sex forum) or PM him. He has quite a few threads about dating by going the pay route.

 

Your posts are always sensible and well thought out, thank you.

 

I tried Meet Up a few times but my problem, yes I am prepared to own this is that I don't integrate well with people and generally this doesn't help people relate to me.

 

I am trying to work on this, really I am but the dazed look on peoples faces when I try talk to them suggests it not working very well!

 

When I am out and about the common thing to me is common conversation and I just don't get those topics, in that sense I think there is something wrong with me but hearing about someone else's dating life, hearing about their friends, this doesn't interest me in the slightest. Clearly abnormal I am.

 

My other problem is apparently I am too serious, again its just how I am, my humour is of the dry subtle kind so when I kid around people it goes straight over the heads of most people.

 

Ultimately the pay route is something I don't want.

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ZA dater,

I firmly believe that there is someone for everyone out there.

 

It's a numbers game and you just have to keep plugging away at it :)

 

If you meet enough people, you'll eventually find someone who you "click" with, so this "paying for dates" isn't a good idea.

 

Common interest groups are a good bet because you'll have common interests to talk about for a start.

 

Good luck x

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ZA dater,

I firmly believe that there is someone for everyone out there.

 

It's a numbers game and you just have to keep plugging away at it :)

 

If you meet enough people, you'll eventually find someone who you "click" with, so this "paying for dates" isn't a good idea.

 

Common interest groups are a good bet because you'll have common interests to talk about for a start.

 

Good luck x

 

I wish I could find ladies interested in the things I am interested in.

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I wish I could find ladies interested in the things I am interested in.

I honestly do not believe there are NO "ladies" interested in politics or writing.

 

I tried Meet Up a few times but my problem, yes I am prepared to own this is that I don't integrate well with people and generally this doesn't help people relate to me.
If you do not integrate well or relate to people in general then you are not going to relate to the early 20 somethings you want to date, whether you pay them to sit there or not.

You have to do some work on that.

 

When I am out and about the common thing to me is common conversation and I just don't get those topics, in that sense I think there is something wrong with me but hearing about someone else's dating life, hearing about their friends, this doesn't interest me in the slightest. Clearly abnormal I am.
I guess you are doing a poor job of hiding that disinterest, hence the glazed looks and the general discomfort and disconnect you are getting back from others. No-one wants to be around a person that is not interested in what they have to say.

Life is all about the small talk, the trivial chat, the listening, the anecdotes - (funny and not so funny), the learning about what makes others tick.

If you stand apart, or worse still judge others on their lives and how they lead them, then you will never make a connection with anyone.

 

Even the most high powered political analyst or writer, will want to tell you about her friends, her pet, her dating history, the time she got drunk on Rioja in Spain, her granny, her annoying next door neighbour... lots of stuff you may have no interest in whatsoever, but that is how the world works. We all try to develop an interest or feign interest around the people we care about - we want them to feel good and usually it is at no detriment to ourselves to do so.

If you you want to build a relationship then you have to get to know that person and you cannot get to know anyone if you shut down as soon as they bring up a topic you have no interest in whatsoever.

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I honestly do not believe there are NO "ladies" interested in politics or writing.

 

If you do not integrate well or relate to people in general then you are not going to relate to the early 20 somethings you want to date, whether you pay them to sit there or not.

You have to do some work on that.

 

I guess you are doing a poor job of hiding that disinterest, hence the glazed looks and the general discomfort and disconnect you are getting back from others. No-one wants to be around a person that is not interested in what they have to say.

Life is all about the small talk, the trivial chat, the listening, the anecdotes - (funny and not so funny), the learning about what makes others tick.

If you stand apart, or worse still judge others on their lives and how they lead them, then you will never make a connection with anyone.

 

Even the most high powered political analyst or writer, will want to tell you about her friends, her pet, her dating history, the time she got drunk on Rioja in Spain, her granny, her annoying next door neighbour... lots of stuff you may have no interest in whatsoever, but that is how the world works. We all try to develop an interest or feign interest around the people we care about - we want them to feel good and usually it is at no detriment to ourselves to do so.

If you you want to build a relationship then you have to get to know that person and you cannot get to know anyone if you shut down as soon as they bring up a topic you have no interest in whatsoever.

 

I agree with all of the above.

 

Taking an interest in people isn't my issue, I can listen all day to arcane small talk but what I cannot stomach is someone who takes no interest in me and I must sit and listen to all about them?

 

While I ask them questions and they ask me none?

 

The issue I have is there being no common ground to actually talk about. I grew up fast for a variety of reasons, what other kids did I didn't do again, for whatever reason. I had few friends growing up and generally spent most of my time on my own, I'd go cycling and just be outdoors. I don't recall ever going to a birthday party between the ages of 10-21. Already then I was seen as an outcast.

 

My point is its difficult to sit and partake in conversations where the other person is giving no interaction back, asking nothing about me. Its even harder when I cannot relate to what the other person is saying. Its the singularly biggest tell to my inexperience this, people pick up on it quickly.

 

Here is an example

 

Me and a group of guys

 

"Wow she is hot, I'd want to .... her" I don't think like that, they would want to ..... her, I would want to get to know her as a person before. This massive disconnect happens and I get looked at like I am mad.

 

Your post made me think a lot, perhaps I just completely and totally unsuitable for any sort of relationship. My entire line of thinking is wrong.

 

The utterly stupid thing is I can socialise, I am not incapable of it but by the same token there needs to be some common ground somewhere for it to be enjoyable.

 

Paying wont solve any of these issues and truthfully I am not sure any of them can be solved, I need something that makes me attractive, I work so hard to try and achieve things in the hope they will make me more attractive and perhaps give me some advantage. The only thing paying would accomplish is to at least give me some of the feeling of having dinner with someone as apposed to on my own.

 

Clearly all of this reflects in me somehow which people find very off putting.

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Taking an interest in people isn't my issue, I can listen all day to arcane small talk but what I cannot stomach is someone who takes no interest in me and I must sit and listen to all about them?

 

While I ask them questions and they ask me none?

 

Is paying someone to feign interest in you really going to make you feel better, though? You seem like a very smart guy so I'm surprised to read you'd consider this. It reminds of that philosophical question (I think it was Descartes), where you could supposedly pick the perfect life for yourself, but you knew your consciousness was lying to you, would you still do it? You don't strike me as the type who would. Isn't this sort of similar?

 

My point is its difficult to sit and partake in conversations where the other person is giving no interaction back, asking nothing about me. Its even harder when I cannot relate to what the other person is saying. Its the singularly biggest tell to my inexperience this, people pick up on it quickly.

 

Here is an example

 

Me and a group of guys

 

"Wow she is hot, I'd want to .... her" I don't think like that, they would want to ..... her, I would want to get to know her as a person before. This massive disconnect happens and I get looked at like I am mad.

 

In social situations I think it's good to be a bit of a chameleon sometimes, or at least more understanding. People talk and act a certain way around certain people and differently around others depending on the group. There's one school of thought that suggests that the sum of all these different personalities and actions is your "self."

 

All that being said, I don't think your friends are crass because they cut right to the chase and said what mostly every man thinks. I also would guess you probably have the same primal urges they have, you just don't vocalize them as such. So when you're out with someone, you might have to make some concessions and compromises in topics and whatnot and expect them to do the same for the sake of conversation. You're going to act differently at a bachelor party than you are at a nice dinner with the in laws.

 

For example, when I'm dating some girl I usually don't have the patience to hear about trivial things that happen in her office. It's just mind numbingly dull to me and I usually can't help my mind from wandering. Similarly, I know she probably doesn't care about the minutiae of my day-to-day either so I always keep it brief even if she asks. I think it's much more interesting to figure out why her or I think the way we do about the things and how we deal with them, so I just bite my tongue until we can get past all the expository stuff. You've got to put on some different hats sometimes and wade through the marsh until you get to the good, mutually interesting, common ground stuff, and perhaps take a tone that's consistent with the environment, if you're still able to maintain some decent semblance of self.

 

As for people not asking things about you, it sounds odd. I don't know why someone would go out with you and not have a natural curiosity. You've got to at least accept their presence as a basic curiosity in you. If you're having trouble connecting with people, try invoking your own personal experiences and thoughts into things they talk about. Make a connection between yourself and whatever they seem to care about and invite them to do the same. Then you have common ground, and hopefully that incites some more deep questioning.

 

Your post made me think a lot, perhaps I just completely and totally unsuitable for any sort of relationship. My entire line of thinking is wrong.

 

I think you're overthinking.

 

The utterly stupid thing is I can socialise, I am not incapable of it but by the same token there needs to be some common ground somewhere for it to be enjoyable.

 

You probably have a lot more in common with people than you realize. At the most basic level, we all experience basically the same emotions at one point or another and the themes of life can always be related to.

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Is paying someone to feign interest in you really going to make you feel better, though? You seem like a very smart guy so I'm surprised to read you'd consider this. It reminds of that philosophical question (I think it was Descartes), where you could supposedly pick the perfect life for yourself, but you knew your consciousness was lying to you, would you still do it? You don't strike me as the type who would. Isn't this sort of similar?

 

 

 

In social situations I think it's good to be a bit of a chameleon sometimes, or at least more understanding. People talk and act a certain way around certain people and differently around others depending on the group. There's one school of thought that suggests that the sum of all these different personalities and actions is your "self."

 

All that being said, I don't think your friends are crass because they cut right to the chase and said what mostly every man thinks. I also would guess you probably have the same primal urges they have, you just don't vocalize them as such. So when you're out with someone, you might have to make some concessions and compromises in topics and whatnot and expect them to do the same for the sake of conversation. You're going to act differently at a bachelor party than you are at a nice dinner with the in laws.

 

For example, when I'm dating some girl I usually don't have the patience to hear about trivial things that happen in her office. It's just mind numbingly dull to me and I usually can't help my mind from wandering. Similarly, I know she probably doesn't care about the minutiae of my day-to-day either so I always keep it brief even if she asks. I think it's much more interesting to figure out why her or I think the way we do about the things and how we deal with them, so I just bite my tongue until we can get past all the expository stuff. You've got to put on some different hats sometimes and wade through the marsh until you get to the good, mutually interesting, common ground stuff, and perhaps take a tone that's consistent with the environment, if you're still able to maintain some decent semblance of self.

 

As for people not asking things about you, it sounds odd. I don't know why someone would go out with you and not have a natural curiosity. You've got to at least accept their presence as a basic curiosity in you. If you're having trouble connecting with people, try invoking your own personal experiences and thoughts into things they talk about. Make a connection between yourself and whatever they seem to care about and invite them to do the same. Then you have common ground, and hopefully that incites some more deep questioning.

 

 

 

I think you're overthinking.

 

 

 

You probably have a lot more in common with people than you realize. At the most basic level, we all experience basically the same emotions at one point or another and the themes of life can always be related to.

 

Considering it and doing it are two very different things. Honestly the idea has a miniscule of attraction if I could find someone genuinely nice but I don't think I would. Again I am not talking about escorts here in the traditional sense.

 

 

I just miss the experience of taking someone out, as pathetic as it may seem, its tiresome trawling dating sites (I went back to Ok Cupid) after being inspired by the other long thread here. Really I didn't find anyone who is my cup of tea but I practiced trying to create a decent profile and tried to communicate with people, with some degree of success just the people I attracted were not what I want in any aspect at all.

 

 

When it comes to trivial conversation, really I don't mind it at all provided there is some reciprocated interest, I am quite ok listening to someone else's day and office issues. A large part of me wants someone to take an interest in!

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Your posts are always sensible and well thought out, thank you.

 

I tried Meet Up a few times but my problem, yes I am prepared to own this is that I don't integrate well with people and generally this doesn't help people relate to me.

 

I am trying to work on this, really I am but the dazed look on peoples faces when I try talk to them suggests it not working very well!

 

When I am out and about the common thing to me is common conversation and I just don't get those topics, in that sense I think there is something wrong with me but hearing about someone else's dating life, hearing about their friends, this doesn't interest me in the slightest. Clearly abnormal I am.

 

My other problem is apparently I am too serious, again its just how I am, my humour is of the dry subtle kind so when I kid around people it goes straight over the heads of most people.

 

Ultimately the pay route is something I don't want.

 

Thanks OP.

 

FWIW I had an ex in college who tried to say I was awkward. Now people can't believe I'm an introvert and I seem to be able to mingle in any crowd. It can be unlearned.

 

People like talking about themselves or things they enjoy. If you can find something mutual it can be fun. The reason I suggested meetup if to find people who aren't going to make idle chit chat. You don't want to go to the social meetups. You want the people who have the same passions as you. For example I got to a geeky meetup. I like talking about sci-fi, programming, and all sorts of geeky stuff. I can socialize in the normal groups but I find it boring too. But I love a good sci-fi debate. I can find it easily in those groups.

 

Also try to find groups with the same people so you can get to know people. If meetup isn't your thing, perhaps try something like a sports group or acting group.

 

The last thing that helped was to work on my self esteem. I really don't give a crap now. I am comfortable walking into a room of people and just talking to them. I no longer need to hide in the corner or go with people to have a good time. I found a lot of Natalie Lue's blog posts helpful (her site is baggage reclaim).

 

I'll agree that the women on dating sites can be rough. Maybe that's just not the best venue for you. Or you need to learn how to better learn that game.

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I haven't read the whole thread but - you did nail it in your last post that I quoted.

 

It's your negativity that puts people off. You're not alone, a few men on here are just the same.

This would also put someone off if you were paying for the privilege of their time and company only.

 

You liked my story about after my Mum had died when I was just 17.

I was very unconfident at the point I set myself that challenge.

The only thing that got me through was positivity, The ONLY thing.

Without positivity I could not have done it nor kept doing it.

 

If I had the balls I would post stories about two nights during that time that were particularly horrible. I can't. Both nights were too horrific.

 

But I did pick myself up, be positive and test myself again so even then I made the whole experience a good one for just me.

BTW - I decided not to date and did not date during my 3 months. Nor was I out there picking guys up or having sex. It was purely to get myself out of feeling so shy.

 

ZA - don't pay for company or 'whatever'. Please.

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I probably cannot express properly how awkward I come off in person, I literally have nothing in common with people, politics, nobody is interested in that, writing nobody is interested in that, they all talk about chicks, booze and sport. Hardly my idea of fun. I don't dance either.

 

OK - if you aren't interested in chicks, booze, and sport, a BAR is the worst place for you to hang out! Of course you don't fit in there - and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Find places to hang out with girls who are into politics and writing. Book readings, the book store, the library, political rallies, local politics meetings...places where you can be yourself and talk to girls who are on your intellectual level.

 

Another thing is to join online groups. Like Facebook groups for local politics, young Republicans/Democrats/whatever your political persuasion, local authors' groups. Chatting with people online is a great way to make connections! You can just reply to posts and be smart and witty. When a girl comments, see if you can strike up a message convo with her.

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