Bitter Over The Fact That I Have No Experience With Women

[Dark Horse]

I'm a 21 year old male who's never had a girlfriend, still a virgin, never kissed, never been on a date etc... I am completely inexperienced when it comes to women. Iv'e been having a lot of depression lately because I want to start dating and being around pretty girls but its very hard for me to interact with them.

 

Iv'e developed a negative and bitter attitude over my lack of experience. I read and hear about people who talk about the number of dates they've been on, the amount of sex partners they've had; and success comes easy for them and i'm not going to lie it makes me angry how most people can get sex so easily while I rarely even get any interaction with women my own age, I can't even get a date! I hate it so ***ing much, I really do! Even reading posts here gets me pissed off because people talking about their dating success stories and sexual encounters makes me super angry and jealous! Its unfair how easy a lot of people have it attracting somebody and finding success and they so often take it for granted!

 

And I know that i'm only 21 years old which is still young but I feel like it will only get harder to date as I get older because the older you get, the more a woman is going to expect you to be experienced and know how to date and how to have sex; plus I really don't want to miss out on dating and sex while i'm still young; I don't want to be a 30 year old virgin, that would friggin suck!

 

 

Love is a drug I have been deprived of and it is a pain that I can't conquer and a cycle I can't break. It is equally as emotionally painful to search for love and be rejected and to not search for love, and be lonely. Therefore I am flawed because I have the desire and drive, but not the resilience to withstand failing.

 

 

Someday I do wish to find love, sex, intimacy. But I must first conquer the darkness before the darkness conquers me and another Elliot is born out of a result of the darkness.

 

 

And please understand that everybody searches for love and everybody desires some form of intimacy, it doesn't matter what you look like or what your situation is. Some people in life have been deprived of love or it was snatched from them and if I had the power, I would make everybody feel loved because I know the pain of loneliness.

 

 

Dark Horse out...

[JuneJulySeptember]

21 is a very bad age for a guy with no experience because all other guys do is talk about women and sex. There's a lot of peer pressure.

 

It is very hard not to be frustrated and bitter unless you are totally off the map socially and fine with it, which I have very rarely met people like that.

 

I mean, if I had a friend or a cousin in your situation, I would just tell him to go gonzo and get it done. Find somebody who will date/have sex with you. Sex and even relationships are not that big of a deal.

 

It will be hard, but devote some time and energy to it, and take the first one who will take you.

[basil67]

You've gotta crawl before you can walk. Therefore, you should be working towards having and relating to female friends before you can even think about finding a girlfriend.

 

What does your social group look like? Is it a reasonable size and mixed gender?

[Satu]

snip

*I read and hear about people who talk about the number of dates they've been on, the amount of sex partners they've had; and success comes easy for them

 

*Be aware that more than a few of these people are lying and/or exagerating.

[ZA Dater]

and take the first one who will take you.

 

Terrible advice in my honest opinion.

[ZA Dater]

I'm a 21 year old male who's never had a girlfriend, still a virgin, never kissed, never been on a date etc... I am completely inexperienced when it comes to women. Iv'e been having a lot of depression lately because I want to start dating and being around pretty girls but its very hard for me to interact with them.

 

Iv'e developed a negative and bitter attitude over my lack of experience. I read and hear about people who talk about the number of dates they've been on, the amount of sex partners they've had; and success comes easy for them and i'm not going to lie it makes me angry how most people can get sex so easily while I rarely even get any interaction with women my own age, I can't even get a date! I hate it so ***ing much, I really do! Even reading posts here gets me pissed off because people talking about their dating success stories and sexual encounters makes me super angry and jealous! Its unfair how easy a lot of people have it attracting somebody and finding success and they so often take it for granted!

 

And I know that i'm only 21 years old which is still young but I feel like it will only get harder to date as I get older because the older you get, the more a woman is going to expect you to be experienced and know how to date and how to have sex; plus I really don't want to miss out on dating and sex while i'm still young; I don't want to be a 30 year old virgin, that would friggin suck!

 

 

Love is a drug I have been deprived of and it is a pain that I can't conquer and a cycle I can't break. It is equally as emotionally painful to search for love and be rejected and to not search for love, and be lonely. Therefore I am flawed because I have the desire and drive, but not the resilience to withstand failing.

 

 

Someday I do wish to find love, sex, intimacy. But I must first conquer the darkness before the darkness conquers me and another Elliot is born out of a result of the darkness.

 

 

And please understand that everybody searches for love and everybody desires some form of intimacy, it doesn't matter what you look like or what your situation is. Some people in life have been deprived of love or it was snatched from them and if I had the power, I would make everybody feel loved because I know the pain of loneliness.

 

 

Dark Horse out...

 

I can relate to all of this, only difference is I am older.

 

Everything you say here resonates strongly with me but none more so than the bold above.

 

Personally I became lost searching for over 10 years, barring perhaps two nice experiences the rest were severely deflating and demotivating. Its how you take that, had I been wiser back then I would not have let it effect me the way it did, I went to some very dark places emotionally, I felt scarred, my confidence was zero and for the most part I felt worthless to other people but also unaware of my own worth.

 

The more questions I asked myself the less clear the answers became, there was no positivity at all about dating and one day recently I woke up and realised one thing: I have the power to be better and I don't have to live a miserable life because of the rejection of others.

 

Yes, I am not looking anymore and I feel much better, the darkness which seemed to swallow me for so many years is gone. Its not me alone, its the invaluable contribution made by others, small things they do for me which make me feel valued, make me feel like I am not some outcast.

 

You need to try and find that, you should be looking for all the great things about dating, absolutely but be aware so long as you live in that black dark cloud you wont present well and no amount of looking will get you the reward you so desperately seek.

 

The hardest thing in my experience is watching everyone else get the things you so desperately want, for me that's still very tough.

 

I cant really offer much concrete advice but I can tell you at 32 I wish I had the opportunity you have to turn things around and make something of your 20's in terms of dating, don't let your opportunity go to waste like I did mine.

 

Focus on being the best you possible. Find things that make you happy and pursue them, find something else to enjoy barring chasing dates 24/7. I was lucky for the only time in my life I know have a platonic female friend and for me at least that gives me most of what I want, barring physical and actually spending lots of time with her, she takes an interest and that's more than anyone else ever has. Don't underestimate how good that feels and how it will boost you.

[LookAtThisPOst]

After he said his age, 21, I don't see it much as a big deal as opposed to being in your late 20s. I never had a girlfriend when I was 21 *shrug* and I wasn't making as much of a stink about it then...guess my interests lied elsewhere.

 

Of course, there's a lot of pregnant teens doing it, so that tells you about their upbringing.

[elaine567]

Terrible advice in my honest opinion.

 

He is 21, he needs to start somewhere.

 

No-one learned to ride a horse, by waiting for that million dollar racing stallion to show up at the riding centre, did they?

No, they learn to ride on Barney the friendly and biddable Sheltand pony, they gain experience and confidence and if they stick at it they will eventually be able to ride that stallion around the racing track. Had they attempted to do that the first day they would have fallen off or been hospitalised with a kick.

You cannot expect to be able to run until you can walk

 

People have to learn how to date, and learn what does or doesn't suit them.

If the list of requirements is so long no-one matches up, then how would they even know what suits or what doesn't?

[clia]

What are you doing to meet women? Are you asking women out on dates?

[ZA Dater]

He is 21, he needs to start somewhere.

 

No-one learned to ride a horse, by waiting for that million dollar racing stallion to show up at the riding centre, did they?

No, they learn to ride on Barney the friendly and biddable Sheltand pony, they gain experience and confidence and if they stick at it they will eventually be able to ride that stallion around the racing track. Had they attempted to do that the first day they would have fallen off or been hospitalised with a kick.

You cannot expect to be able to run until you can walk

 

People have to learn how to date, and learn what does or doesn't suit them.

If the list of requirements is so long no-one matches up, then how would they even know what suits or what doesn't?

 

I wont ever agree with this. What was being prosed the way I saw it was one or all of the following

: pay for sex

: look only for sex with someone

: date some you aren't attracted to gain experience.

 

The OP made no reference to list or requirements. He did mention he had no success. You cannot define success as scraping the bottom of the barrel in the name of getting experience and frankly I don't know anyone who has had to resort to going on dates with people they don't like to gain experience.

 

Me personally, I'd rather get half a ride on that racing stallion and fall off than resorting to riding donkeys that don't appeal to me.

 

That's just me.

[elaine567]

I wont ever agree with this. What was being prosed the way I saw it was one or all of the following

: pay for sex

: look only for sex with someone

: date some you aren't attracted to gain experience.

 

I would never suggest anyone pay for sex, that is a whole different ballgame and no-one who is vulnerable should go down that road, IMO.

Also people looking for love and attention will get badly burned if they mix with those whose main aim is getting NSA sex.

 

But dating those for who you have no immediate spark may be illuminating, especially if your requirements in reality are unnecessarily rigid.

[ZA Dater]

I would never suggest anyone pay for sex, that is a whole different ballgame and no-one who is vulnerable should go down that road, IMO.

Also people looking for love and attention will get badly burned if they mix with those whose main aim is getting NSA sex.

 

But dating those for who you have no immediate spark may be illuminating, especially if your requirements in reality are unnecessarily rigid.

 

I don't really think so, all you are doing is leading someone else on who may actually like you.

 

For me at least if I am going to gain experience I'd like it to be with someone I am attracted to rather than demean myself and the other person by simply using them.

 

IMHO the OP would be better served to better himself, cast off the bad and try find anything good in life, good things give positive attitude, I am still lonely but I am busy with things, on the go, busy writing my novel, busy with my social club, busy with work.

 

At 21 the opportunities are endless, I wish I could go back and change that part of my life.

 

Fact is at 21 you aren't expected to be experienced which makes things easier, its an easier sell if you need to sell it at all.

 

Its critical to cast off the bad, I wasted years feeling crappy, ultimately people saw that and the small chances I had vanished totally. I cant say people transform over night but you can find an inner peace, you can direct positive energy. Sure, I don't have any better prospects now, the opportunities are far less which is why for the OP he MUST find that inner peace because it will change the way he projects himself to other and likely may change his prospects.

 

Nobody at 21 is looking to get married, or few are so again its a time to gain that experience.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

But dating those for who you have no immediate spark may be illuminating, especially if your requirements in reality are unnecessarily rigid.

 

Put absolutely well. Not to mention my first 'real girlfriend' I was totally hot for, and she cheated on me, and made me feel like sh@t a lot of the time. Still, I don't regret it (though I would have regretted marrying her ).

 

Another woman I dated (later), I had more of a lukewarm attraction to and we broke up, but it was still overall an experience I don't regret.

 

At age 21, it helps to get in the game. It will improve your overall confidence and happiness in my opinion.

[ZA Dater]

Put absolutely well. Not to mention my first 'real girlfriend' I was totally hot for, and she cheated on me, and made me feel like sh@t a lot of the time. Still, I don't regret it (though I would have regretted marrying her ).

 

Another woman I dated (later), I had more of a lukewarm attraction to and we broke up, but it was still overall an experience I don't regret.

 

At age 21, it helps to get in the game. It will improve your overall confidence and happiness in my opinion.

 

Clearly my logic is wrong if two posters disagree with me

 

Another point for the OP, being bitter doesn't help your cause, only you feel bitter, nobody else feels bitter for you and really I can tell you, you can despise being inexperience, you can despise who you are, can you look at other but fundamentally none of that changes your circumstance.

 

I still think you should chase what you like rather than "oh that will do she likes me".

[losangelena]

Have you tried going after fat chicks, OP? I hear they're easy to date.

[Toodaloo]

Oh get a grip.

 

Your attitude is holding you back.

 

Instead of being happy and getting on with life you are like Golum in the corner. get up, get out and go have some fun. Quit whining. Its really dull and unattractive.

 

I know a girl that didn't have her first kiss until she was 26, she got married a lot faster than I did!!!

[JuneJulySeptember]

Clearly my logic is wrong if two posters disagree with me

 

Another point for the OP, being bitter doesn't help your cause, only you feel bitter, nobody else feels bitter for you and really I can tell you, you can despise being inexperience, you can despise who you are, can you look at other but fundamentally none of that changes your circumstance.

 

I still think you should chase what you like rather than "oh that will do she likes me".

 

As usual, there's practical, concrete reality and there's abstract LoveShack dating theories and platitudes and hypothetical situations.

 

So, let's rewind. When I was a sophomore in college, I worked with a woman who was about the same age. One of our fellow co-workers told me I should ask her out and that she thought I was cute (which remains one of the very few instances in my life that sort of thing has happened).

 

The reasons as I recall that I was lukewarm on her were because 1) she was kinda cute but not 'wow what a cutie' cute, 2) she wasn't in school (sure she has her degree by now), 3) she wasn't born here (though her English was good). She was also quite nice and pretty funny.

 

So, I kind of made a half ass attempt and then bailed. In retrospect, all of those reasons why I was lukewarm about her are totally retarded. And we could have had some fun.

 

But again, live life your own way.

 

Hey, the guy is on here whining and miserable, so I'm just giving him advice to change it up.

Edited August 11, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[preraph]

You do realize that at some point in every man's life, he had no experience with women, right? So you're no different. They all have to start from scratch just like you will, so get started and stop putting it off and being fearful. Even if you stumble and fall your first outing, then you will no longer be able to say you have no experience with women.

[Inflikted]

Yeah, I understand the feeling. Me, I'm 27, soon to be 28, and I've never even been in a flirtatious conversation with a girl, let alone dated, been in a relationship, or had sex.

 

Me, I went through a lot of the different emotions over the last several years. I wasn't even really thinking much about it when I was 21 or 22. I mean, it kinda sucked to see everyone around me "mingling" and dating, but I wasn't personally connecting with anyone, so it didn't get to me as much.

 

Around 24, I met a girl that was everything I always wanted in a partner. She seemed to like me, too, and I thought "This is it! It's finally happening!". But, of course, she didn't feel the same way, and after I made my feelings clear, she wanted nothing to do with me, and that's what started me on the path of feeling bitter, sad, angry, depressed, etc.

 

I spent three years cycling through those emotions, and I started craving "dating" so badly that I was trying my luck on various online dating sites, and whatnot. Of course, I never got anywhere with those, but eh.

 

Finally, some time last year, I just kind of "let go" of the idea of dating. I've come to accept that it's not in the cards for me. I'm not physically attractive, I don't have a good personality, I don't have a good job/ career, I'm not interesting or intelligent or funny or exciting, I'm completely unable to connect with another human being. There's no hope for me. That realization made me sad for a bit, but now, now I just understand that it's just a fact of my life. It is what it is. It doesn't make me sad or bitter or angry, or anything, to know that, anymore.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting to give up and accept that it's never going to happen for you. Me, I'm "unusual". In my experience, a vast majority of people I've seen have SOMETHING to offer to another person. Whether it be physical attraction, a likable personality, a good dependable career, whatever. So, odds are, you'll eventually date and get to have those experiences, and things will work out for you.

 

What I am saying is, well... There's nothing wrong with being realistic. A lot of people, especially in communities like this, want to be encouraging and supportive, and want to tell you that everything will work out in the end. Unfortunately, that's not true. Some people, such as myself, are so fundamentally "defective" and have absolutely nothing to offer, and there is no fixing that, and thus, there is no hope. I struggled for a long time with that, but I feel a lot more calm, now that I've come to accept it.

 

Whether learning to accept it is the right choice for you, well, that's completely up to you. Again, in my experience, a vast majority of people are "normal" and will have "normal" experiences with dating and relationships, and all that. So, you'll most likely get to experience those things, just based on pure odds. But, no one here knows you better than you know you. And if you come to the conclusion that, like myself, you are incapable of experiencing these things, than so be it. But learn to accept it, and let it go.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Yeah, I understand the feeling. Me, I'm 27, soon to be 28, and I've never even been in a flirtatious conversation with a girl, let alone dated, been in a relationship, or had sex.

 

Me, I went through a lot of the different emotions over the last several years. I wasn't even really thinking much about it when I was 21 or 22. I mean, it kinda sucked to see everyone around me "mingling" and dating, but I wasn't personally connecting with anyone, so it didn't get to me as much.

 

Around 24, I met a girl that was everything I always wanted in a partner. She seemed to like me, too, and I thought "This is it! It's finally happening!". But, of course, she didn't feel the same way, and after I made my feelings clear, she wanted nothing to do with me, and that's what started me on the path of feeling bitter, sad, angry, depressed, etc.

 

I spent three years cycling through those emotions, and I started craving "dating" so badly that I was trying my luck on various online dating sites, and whatnot. Of course, I never got anywhere with those, but eh.

 

Finally, some time last year, I just kind of "let go" of the idea of dating. I've come to accept that it's not in the cards for me. I'm not physically attractive, I don't have a good personality, I don't have a good job/ career, I'm not interesting or intelligent or funny or exciting, I'm completely unable to connect with another human being. There's no hope for me. That realization made me sad for a bit, but now, now I just understand that it's just a fact of my life. It is what it is. It doesn't make me sad or bitter or angry, or anything, to know that, anymore.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting to give up and accept that it's never going to happen for you. Me, I'm "unusual". In my experience, a vast majority of people I've seen have SOMETHING to offer to another person. Whether it be physical attraction, a likable personality, a good dependable career, whatever. So, odds are, you'll eventually date and get to have those experiences, and things will work out for you.

 

What I am saying is, well... There's nothing wrong with being realistic. A lot of people, especially in communities like this, want to be encouraging and supportive, and want to tell you that everything will work out in the end. Unfortunately, that's not true. Some people, such as myself, are so fundamentally "defective" and have absolutely nothing to offer, and there is no fixing that, and thus, there is no hope. I struggled for a long time with that, but I feel a lot more calm, now that I've come to accept it.

 

Whether learning to accept it is the right choice for you, well, that's completely up to you. Again, in my experience, a vast majority of people are "normal" and will have "normal" experiences with dating and relationships, and all that. So, you'll most likely get to experience those things, just based on pure odds. But, no one here knows you better than you know you. And if you come to the conclusion that, like myself, you are incapable of experiencing these things, than so be it. But learn to accept it, and let it go.

 

You probably shouldn't give up at your age though.

 

Because early 30s is when some women start to come around and will accept 'good guys'. By then, they'll have dated guys who are better looking and more charismatic/accomplished, but a lot of them might have been dishonest, unfaithful, apathetic. Two-faced is the word I have heard most often that women use to describe their exes.

 

For instance, I know a guy who dresses like crap, lives like a total slob (or used to before he met his GF), has very little 'universal' social skills, and is extremely non-PC and uncouth. His job is OK, but nothing special and he was making a lot less when they met. However, he is a good guy and he is pretty honest.

 

And his girlfriend told me that is why she is dating him.

 

I remember there was a line from Bad Teacher where she tells the geeky junior high school kid he probably has to wait until he's 30 to get a woman. I mean, it's a joke ... but there's some truth to it.

 

I'm also assuming that you guys are indeed 'good guys'. Lol. Most guys who don't get any women are though.

Edited August 11, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[Sunkissedpatio]

Dark Horse, get out and date try online dating and don't go for the girls you ultimately wish to be with try girls that you sill find appealing and who are not at the top of your desire pile. Learn to relate to women in a date setting. My ex worked for an entire summer as camp counsellor at an all-girl camp. He said he learned everything he needed to know about women and how to related to their "craziness" after that summer. He also said one summer was enough.

 

Point being, it wasn't in a romantic setting and he learned a LOT about women that way.

 

 

 

Me personally, I'd rather get half a ride on that racing stallion and fall off than resorting to riding donkeys that don't appeal to me.

 

Yes but all things being equal and attraction working on the premise of being within the same league as the person you aspire to be with...is your overall package more equal to a stallion, donkey, or something in between?

 

I think that what the Elaine567 was saying was that you have to start somewhere. Not use people, nor pay for sex but let's face it the OP is not at the level of attracting a stallion at this point. He may have the physical attributes to do so but the emotional are not there. He is a self-admitted negative and possibly "scared/insecure" person about his dating abilities.

 

The problem I see with some people when they are younger is that they see their friends who have more experience or more confidence and looks attract a certain level of people and they feel entitled to the same.

 

It's a known fact in this world that some people just need to work harder. Some people will not attract the 9 and 10 packages that others are attracting unless they can work on certain aspects of themselves that compensates for the parts they are not scoring that "highly" on the attraction scale.

 

I HATE having to attach numbers to explain this but it's the clearest way to explain it.

[Inflikted]

You probably shouldn't give up at your age though.

 

Because early 30s is when some women start to come around and will accept 'good guys'. By then, they'll have dated guys who are better looking and more charismatic/accomplished, but a lot of them might have been dishonest, unfaithful, apathetic. Two-faced is the word I have heard most often that women use to describe their exes.

 

For instance, I know a guy who dresses like crap, lives like a total slob (or used to before he met his GF), has very little 'universal' social skills, and is extremely non-PC and uncouth. His job is OK, but nothing special and he was making a lot less when they met. However, he is a good guy and he is pretty honest.

 

And his girlfriend told me that is why she is dating him.

 

I remember there was a line from Bad Teacher where she tells the geeky junior high school kid he probably has to wait until he's 30 to get a woman. I mean, it's a joke ... but there's some truth to it.

 

I'm also assuming that you guys are indeed 'good guys'. Lol. Most guys who don't get any women are though.

 

*Shrug* I dunno. I don't really look at in a "good guy/ bad guy" or "good girl/ bad girl" way. Aside from a handful of people, most of the people and couples I've known and encountered have been pretty normal people who weren't dating "bad" people, or anything like that.

 

Besides, in your scenario, I don't really want to be the person that someone else "settles for". I don't want to be with someone that's basically like "I dated guys that were hot and fun and exciting, and it was good times, but I'm ready for something more boring, and you seem nice enough, I guess". That wouldn't really sit well with me.

 

Am I a "good" guy? Meh. I don't know. I'm polite and I try my best to live a life that doesn't inconvenience anyone around me, but whether that alone makes me "good", I don't think is for me to say. Beyond that, I'm fairly selfish and self-absorbed, and I find people to generally be annoying. I'm a bit of a curmudgeon that lives in my own little bubble. Whether I'm "good" or "bad", I don't know, and I don't much care. I'm just me, and as I've come to learn, "me" doesn't really have much of a place anywhere, with anyone.

[JuneJulySeptember]

*Shrug* I dunno. I don't really look at in a "good guy/ bad guy" or "good girl/ bad girl" way. Aside from a handful of people, most of the people and couples I've known and encountered have been pretty normal people who weren't dating "bad" people, or anything like that.

 

Besides, in your scenario, I don't really want to be the person that someone else "settles for". I don't want to be with someone that's basically like "I dated guys that were hot and fun and exciting, and it was good times, but I'm ready for something more boring, and you seem nice enough, I guess". That wouldn't really sit well with me.

 

Am I a "good" guy? Meh. I don't know. I'm polite and I try my best to live a life that doesn't inconvenience anyone around me, but whether that alone makes me "good", I don't think is for me to say. Beyond that, I'm fairly selfish and self-absorbed, and I find people to generally be annoying. I'm a bit of a curmudgeon that lives in my own little bubble. Whether I'm "good" or "bad", I don't know, and I don't much care. I'm just me, and as I've come to learn, "me" doesn't really have much of a place anywhere, with anyone.

 

OK, well maybe you shouldn't wait it out.

 

I don't know. Yes, I was generalizing, but LS is a bunch of gross generalizations.

[BlueIris]

OP, You could have a date. Stop being picky.

Yeah, the new thing these days is to say, “don’t settle!” but that is such a superior arrogant mindset because it implies that the person thinks he/she is better than others. And THAT thinking precludes relationships. Start appreciating all kinds of people and ask out lots of women- or make peace with the fact that your standards are too high and you'd rather be alone.

[Imajerk17]

What are you doing to meet women? Are you asking women out on dates?

 

I'm surprised that no one commented on this, because it is so simple, so basic. Sometimes the simplest posts are the best.

 

OP, for all the griping you did, you actually told us very little. What have you tried? How are you even putting yourself out there, if at all?

 

The guys your age who are going on dates are....(1) actually working with these girls via summer jobs, (2) taking classes with these girls and flirting with them there, (3) meeting women through friends of friends, (4) seeing these girls around via activities such as CrossFit or whatever you're into, (5) meeting girls going out these warm summer evenings (I assume you are like 75% of the board and live in the Northern Hemisphere). Some of them are even meeting them via cold approach in the daytime! (rare but it happens) See where I'm going with this? Many ways to meet women, I just thought of six right on the spot. How many of these have you tried?

Edited August 11, 2016 by Imajerk17