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Why do people always say "Nice Guys Finish Last"?


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The whole "nice guy" vs "bad boy" thing I never really understood.

 

Guys saying they're nice guys but girls aren't attracted to them and prefer the guys who are jerks or in some cases straight up sociopaths.

 

Girls saying nice guys just aren't really actually nice guys and are the same as the other guys but are doing a poor job in manipulating women with their niceness to get into their panties while the "bad boy" is direct, and acts more "manly" and nice guys are just boring wimps.

 

But I find the whole concept to be foolish, since everyone is for some reason ignoring the blatant elephant in the room, physical attractiveness.

 

The real reason "nice guys" finish last is because "nice guys" are simply unattractive men who are also nice, so while they may seem like a catch to girls based on personality alone they aren't attractive to the girls they are trying to get with so the girls call them "nice guys" meaning they see them as an actual nice guy good enough to be friends with but they don't find him "sexy" enough to be boyfriend material.

 

The real reason girls go after "bad boys" because they are simply physically attractive men with bad personalities. Most girls simply don't desire ugly, non-wealthy men, with terrible personalities, like how most guys don't desire a fat, old, and ugly woman who treats him like garbage, nothing attractive about any of that.

 

Girls are willing to overlook his negative personality traits because she finds him to be sexy and unconsciously she thinks his genes are superior to that of the nice guy. So for at least a time she will be willing to put up with his terrible behavior and toxic personality because she is basically blinded by his attractiveness. So while he doesn't seem like a person that would be a good friend, he meets her needs as someone who is sexy enough to be boyfriend material maybe more if possible.

 

 

Though of course there are some women who deliberately seek out guys with terrible personalities and in the most extreme cases these girls may find serial killers, torturers, and rapists to be her ultimate fantasy but these girls are probably just basket cases anyway.

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Fortunately, I've never had to worry about picking between a "nice guy" (good character, integrity, conscientious, etc.) and a "bad boy" (attractive to me, exciting, sexy, etc.); I've always been able to find both sets of qualities in the men with whom I've dated/related.

 

 

Thanks for the mansplaining, though!!! :rolleyes:

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Catching a little movie right now a well-known actor made about his racing experiences back in 1970, I'm reminded of what some pros shared with me when I was starting out a few years later....

 

'There's plenty of time to be nice after the race is over'

 

You'd likely know the actor from his role in 'The Rockford Files'. In the movie, his real life lead mechanic and I have the same name and a remarkable likeness. Great memories.

 

It took me awhile to apply my racing philosophy to romance but I got there eventually. Competition for mates can be brutal. That's life!

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Fortunately, I've never had to worry about picking between a "nice guy" (good character, integrity, conscientious, etc.) and a "bad boy" (attractive to me, exciting, sexy, etc.); I've always been able to find both sets of qualities in the men with whom I've dated/related.

 

 

Thanks for the mansplaining, though!!! :rolleyes:

 

Good for you, but not sure how that invalidates what I said.

 

What I'm saying is that nice guys finish last is a dumb statement because how nice they are is irrelevant what matters is how attractive they are, so while most women would find it ideal to find a guy that is both nice and attractive but if they have to choose between nice unattractive guy and super attractive but not nice guy they'll choose the attractive guy all the time.

 

No different then most guys really. Between the choice of a sweet, kind, and honest but fat and ugly woman and a rude bitchy but super sexy woman most guys going to go with the sexy woman even if she treats them bad. Even though most guys would actually like a combination of both.

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coolheadal

Most of what you say is true because women tend to go for the wrong man for the wrong reasons. I can tell how they had lived prior. So much divorce going on and yet most are unhappy. The woman who have been married more than 3 times most be overlooking something. My last Ex-GF was married 3 times. She told me she was an emotional wreck, but to me she always falls back on the second boyfriend she had as teenager.

 

They fornicated after her 3rd husband she wasn't even divorce yet and then the 2 second boyfriend drove down to be with her. She got pregnant with his kid but she soon learned he was engage to get married. So to me being nice and being mean buy which he was in this case doesn't matter it's up to the woman to decide who she wants. But most tend to go after mean guys because that's all they know and like.

 

You can be nice and still be exciting, attractive and sexy. To me the mean ones look rough and don't care about the woman. While we nice guys do care about the woman. Mean/Bad (players) still woman still put up with them.

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Good for you, but not sure how that invalidates what I said.

 

What I'm saying is that nice guys finish last is a dumb statement because how nice they are is irrelevant what matters is how attractive they are, so while most women would find it ideal to find a guy that is both nice and attractive but if they have to choose between nice unattractive guy and super attractive but not nice guy they'll choose the attractive guy all the time.

 

No different then most guys really. Between the choice of a sweet, kind, and honest but fat and ugly woman and a rude bitchy but super sexy woman most guys going to go with the sexy woman even if she treats them bad. Even though most guys would actually like a combination of both.

 

Except it's simply not true; not all women go for just looks all the time.

 

Yes, with most people there will be a desire to be attracted to the other person, but attraction is not just about the other person's looks.

 

 

The 'they just picked the other person because they're shallow and they only care about looks' (i.e., The Nice Guy / Good Girl Syndrome) is only used when one is upset that someone they were attracted to,

 

picked someone else.

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JustGettingBy

"Nice guy" refers to someone who puts them self on a pedestal for being nice. Genuine people, and those who improve themselves use their other good qualities because "nice" is assumed for them.

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PrettyEmily77

You think you're a 'nice' guy? That's your problem right here. Most women (those I know) can very easily distinguish between a genuinely good person and a self-described 'nice' guy, whatever their physical attributes.

 

Self-proclaimed 'nice' guys typically have next to no requirements for a romantic partner (other than she should be hot, because unfair) but their expectations are suffocatingly sky-high - the 'I've done all of this for you / treated you like a Princess even though you didn't ask / want me to so why are not treating me like a King, which is what I deserve for being 'nice' ' scenario.

 

Genuinely good guys finish first, fwiw...

Edited by PrettyEmily77
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coolheadal

See we nice guys take the wrong rap here I see by the different views on this subject. Shouldn't we pick a person based on what values we seek.

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We frequently see posts from self described dateless nice guys. What quickly becomes apparent is that they aren't all that nice. With some of them, it's obvious from a million miles away why they are single. But they don't want to hear because they are convinced that they are truly nice and it's the women who are screwed up.

 

If I wanted a jerk, I'd at least go for a hot bad boy - not the guy who is in denial about being a jerk.

 

Though as it is, I will stick with my good bloke.

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angel.eyes

You're very fixated in your threads on attractiveness, and you see women as this monolithic group. Until you see women as individuals, start to relate to them as such, and stop telling us how we pick guys (:rolleyes:), you'll struggle. Rather than waste time coming up with these misguided theories, you would be better served to spend time implementing at least a little of the oodles of advice you've been given.

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We can all play this game

"Why do men always go for bad girls, the girls who treat them mean and cheat on them, I am a "nice girl" why do they never pick me... wah wah wah!!!!"

 

People in general like to be treated well, they want to be stable and happy, and they want to have fun.

People who are genuinely "nice", are good to be around, but people who "choose" to be nice, who "decide" to be nice, who are "playing" nice because they have an agenda, are not good to be around as their mask always tends to slip.

 

People especially when young also like excitement and danger, so that tends to rub off onto their dating choices too.

Some are always relationship minded and choose accordingly, whereas others date to just have fun, so they want the "bad" boy or girl, as they do not want to date someone who thinks and acts like their Mum or Dad? They want to be on the edge...

Of course long term, that desire for excitement and danger fades and people usually make wiser choices for long term partners, but not all. Some are eternally seeking "excitement" and go through hell to get it in some cases.

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This whole discussion can be summed up neatly with one statement. They are nice because they have to be. A lot of those nice guys are nice because they don't have much else going for them. Maybe they lack charm, aren't good looking, aren't successful, and aren't dynamite in the bedroom. So, they just treat women nicely, and hope for the best. Trouble is, many women would rather date a good looking, charming, successful guy who rocks their world in the bedroom. Just how it is. That guy doesn't have to be nice, because women are already hitting on him.

 

Also like to add that this idea is not just limited to men. Plenty of "nice" girls out there too. They know they aren't pretty, so they try to be nice. They tend to have the same problem the nice guys have.

 

 

Really good post, especially the bold part.

 

 

My experience of observation is you are for the most part 100% right and as someone who sits in the nice guy category I feel qualified to say so.

 

 

The problem facing nice guys is they don't know how to loose manners, how to be a jerk, how to play ladies up against each other, that's just not how they think and thinking is a powerful thing, especially if it has been going on for many years.

 

 

Equally the problem facing bad guys is a simple over selection and abundance of choice, unless they come up against a lady who is attracted with her mind and goes after a good guy persona.

 

 

I also think the line between good and bad is very murky and open to huge levels of interpretation.

 

 

I look around me and try to understand why people date who they do and for the most part cannot fathom why.

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OP, I have to mostly agree with you. "Nice guys vs bad guys" is a distinction mostly only men draw and it seems to serve as an excuse for their lack of popularity in most cases and inevitably descends into bitterness. I think you're right: Broadly speaking it's about the total package of whether you're attractive or not, including looks and personality.

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Except it's simply not true; not all women go for just looks all the time.

 

Yes, with most people there will be a desire to be attracted to the other person, but attraction is not just about the other person's looks.

 

 

The 'they just picked the other person because they're shallow and they only care about looks' (i.e., The Nice Guy / Good Girl Syndrome) is only used when one is upset that someone they were attracted to,

 

picked someone else.

 

You see I never said All women but Most women and people in general think like the way I described. There are always that rare few who think and act differently than the majority in any situation but that's not what I'm talking about.

 

The majority of attraction is based off looks, the rest is just extras or negatives for most people.

 

Let's say you are a girl and you don't date black guys for whatever reason, that means no matter what the guy does or what type of person he is you will never go for him because of his looks.

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GravityMan
Why do people always say "Nice Guys Finish Last"?

 

"Nice Guys Finish Last" is a silly and stupid phrase. It often leads to confusion because some people interpret the phrase too literally or take it out of context. I don't recall hearing it a single time IRL from anyone, man or woman. Heck I don't recall hearing it back during my high school or college days. I hear it on the internet, 98% of the time from insecure men who care too much and pay too much attention to PUA and AskMen and that kind of stuff...and don't spend enough time engaging life in the outside world.

 

The vast majority of people are a complex, unique, fluid and dynamic combination of nice, mean, firm, kind, funny, witty, serious, intelligent, stupid, spontaneous, methodical, selfish, selfless, generous and on and on and on. And genuinely good guys don't seriously self-identify themselves as nice (or not-nice or smart or humorous or whatever).

 

Also, while there may be "competition", dating is not a race and should not be treated as such.

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You think you're a 'nice' guy? That's your problem right here. Most women (those I know) can very easily distinguish between a genuinely good person and a self-described 'nice' guy, whatever their physical attributes.

 

Self-proclaimed 'nice' guys typically have next to no requirements for a romantic partner (other than she should be hot, because unfair) but their expectations are suffocatingly sky-high - the 'I've done all of this for you / treated you like a Princess even though you didn't ask / want me to so why are not treating me like a King, which is what I deserve for being 'nice' ' scenario.

 

Genuinely good guys finish first, fwiw...

 

I would say I can be considered a nice guy as I try to treat others how I would like to be treated, and I don't have high requirements at all, most of the girls that reject me are just plain average looking girls.

 

But the entire point I was making is that "Nice Guy's" niceness is irrelevant you can't make girls like you by being nice, and being good is something most people can appreciate but it doesn't make you "sexy" all of a sudden, what it really comes down to is how physically attractive you are to the girl.

 

Guys complain and say "I guess women all like bad boys" or whatever after being nice to a girl and getting turned down for another guy but the truth is the other guy won out not because he wasn't nice, it's because he simply looked better.

 

[]

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language violation ~6
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PrettyEmily77
the truth is the other guy won out not because he wasn't nice, it's because he simply looked better.

 

Or, most likely, because he was a better fit in terms of compatibility.

 

Plenty of women I know have rejected good looking azzholes because at some point in your life, sometimes earlier sometimes sooner, most people realise that physical attraction can only get you so far; in all truth, past a certain age, that's not very far at all.

 

Also, physically attractive =/= physically good-looking.

 

Really OP, not everything can be reduced to looks.

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"Nice Guys Finish Last" is a silly and stupid phrase. It often leads to confusion because some people interpret the phrase too literally or take it out of context. I don't recall hearing it a single time IRL from anyone, man or woman. Heck I don't recall hearing it back during my high school or college days. I hear it on the internet, 98% of the time from insecure men who care too much and pay too much attention to PUA and AskMen and that kind of stuff...and don't spend enough time engaging life in the outside world.

 

I disagree. There's a reason based in reality why the phrase exists. Often younger, immature women will choose the short term thrill over the longer term prospect. They think they can actually change a "bad boy". Later when said "bad boy" breaks their heart, they'll then wonder where all the good men are at.

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MrNate 2.0

I don't think we can exactly group the term 'nice' with all of these other traits.

 

For just about any person out there, being nice won't be enough.

 

You're correct in that looks do matter. So it generally does behoove anyone to be as presentable as possible, as that generally helps your odds and portrays you at someone who takes pride in themselves.

 

 

Since life is ever changing and hardly a race, I don't think anyone finishes last.

 

Even A 'nice guy' having trouble with women can do a 180 in his life if he is humble enough to work on his opportunities.

 

However, I really do think a nice guy and a guy having trouble with women are two different things. Not sure why they're being combined here.

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The problem facing nice guys is they don't know how to loose manners, how to be a jerk, how to play ladies up against each other, that's just not how they think and thinking is a powerful thing, especially if it has been going on for many years.

 

*Facepalm* You really don't take anything we've said on board do you.

 

Let me fix it for you.

 

The problem facing perpetually single nice guys (as opposed to the majority of nice guys who have relationships) is that they have little to offer other than being nice and employable. They don't know how to improve their social skills. They don't know how to be a good conversationalist. They think that being an arsehole is the solution to their problems. And most importantly, they DON'T LISTEN to all the advice given by women who date and love nice guys.

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Or, most likely, because he was a better fit in terms of compatibility.

 

Plenty of women I know have rejected good looking azzholes because at some point in your life, sometimes earlier sometimes sooner, most people realise that physical attraction can only get you so far; in all truth, past a certain age, that's not very far at all.

 

Also, physically attractive =/= physically good-looking.

 

Really OP, not everything can be reduced to looks.

 

You're very fixated in your threads on attractiveness, and you see women as this monolithic group. Until you see women as individuals, start to relate to them as such, and stop telling us how we pick guys (:rolleyes:), you'll struggle. Rather than waste time coming up with these misguided theories, you would be better served to spend time implementing at least a little of the oodles of advice you've been given.

 

I'm just describing what I experience and see.

 

I'm a young guy, so girls my age may think differently, but girls I know in real-life when they talk about a guy they are interested in they don't say "Wow, we both have the same interests and ideas about life we are so compatible I really want to go on a date with him."

 

Instead girls generally talk about how good-looking the guy's body is, how fresh his clothes are, how handsome his face is, how cool his car is, and basically how "cool"/"smooth" the guy is. Then maybe after several dates they then may say something about "compatibility".

Edited by Necris
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I'm just describing what I experience and see.

 

I'm a young guy, so girls my age may think differently, but girls I know in real-life when they talk about a guy they are interested in they don't say "Wow, we both have the same interests and ideas about life we are so compatible I really want to go on a date with him."

 

Instead girls generally talk about how good-looking the guy's body is, how fresh his clothes are, how handsome his face is, how cool his car is, and basically how "cool"/"smooth" the guy is. Then maybe after several dates they then may say something about "compatibility".

 

I think you need new friends.

 

My daughter is 16 - so still young. Her comments about the new boyfriend? He plays guitar so we can jam together. He skis, so we can ski together. He's got the same philosophies about social issues as me. He's kind and thoughtful. AND he lives near!

 

And you're trying to tell me that girls don't say these things. Pfft.

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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Necris, I'm not sure who you're trying to kid when you say that you're a 'nice guy'. Because this makes you sound very unpleasant.

 

The bit which really has me stumped is: If rude and unpleasant men get the girls, why don't men who write things such as this have women clawing at them?

 

First how is this rude?

 

Just saying sounds like the guy is getting a raw deal, I mean if the only reason the girl likes him is he provides some financial security and she throughout her life had only been with the more exciting guys but now can't this sounds like a bad situation for the guy. Because her past dating behavior shows she likes exciting guys and so she is just settling down with the other guy only for her own personal benefit which is financial security not love.

 

Also 2nd I never said rude and unpleasant guys are the only guys who get girls what I was saying is that the reason they get girls is because they are attractive despite their behavior.

 

Same thing goes with girls, kike how attractive but rude women can find men because they are attractive not because they are rude.

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I think you need new friends.

 

My daughter is 16 - so still young. Her comments about the new boyfriend? He plays guitar so we can jam together. He skis, so we can ski together. He's got the same philosophies about social issues as me. He's kind and thoughtful. AND he lives near!

 

And you're trying to tell me that girls don't say these things. Pfft.

 

That is what she tells you, you are her dad. Saying "Dad, wow my new boyfriend has some of the sexiest legs I've seen" is probably not going to go over well.

 

Most likely she has been seeing him for some time before telling you he's her new boyfriend.

 

People generally get attracted first to the person's physical appearance and once this happens they are willingly to date this person, during the dating process they learn more about their other attributes and if this is what they are in to, they then try out a relationship becoming boyfriend and girlfriend, if this relationship seems to be working they may then go further into a marriage.

 

 

Common interests and compatibility help keep the relationship together, but physical attractiveness is what get the sparks flying.

 

If you have nothing but common interests and compatibility you become merely friends.

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