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May be wrong thread, but is love worth it? (Very long question)


John Dough

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I'll start by telling a little bit about myself. I'm 21 years of age, 5'7", 140 lbs. I am tested to be above average with physical fitness and intelligence. I'm extremely open minded and give no judgement towards any person until I know them for at least a month. I have overcame many mental obstacles in my younger years including anger issues, by writing down anything that triggered the emotional feeling of anger and figured out a reasonable answer to it and come to a solution. I also an extremely energetic child when I was younger which I noticed lead to people becoming annoyed, angry, and even hurt, so I taught myself to meditate and took "Think before you speak" from my 4th grade teacher very seriously. I became very quiet and only spoke after thoroughly analyzing a situation. Everything I do is based around being thoughtful, avoiding conflict, and overall making everyone I come in contact with an overall happier person.

 

Unfortunately, what I've noticed over the years is that humans are very much animals as well and respond highly to instinct and reaction, aka "Thinking with the heart". We as a society do not seem to want reason, or care about morals. We don't care about a lot of things that I've put a lot of effort perfecting in order to make the general populous a happier place. If you take a second to think about this:

Leadership is driven by a strong voice, and good train of thought.

Attraction is driven by looks, height, shape, weight, and communication.

Fitness is perceived to be men with bigger muscles and women with a smaller frame.

Organization is perceived to be clean cut hair and good train of thought.

Jocks are perceived to be the most flamboyant, or cocky, in a sport.

Geeks or nerds are perceived to be out of shape, whether it be fat or skinny, and smart.

Professionalism is perceived by uniformity and politeness.

Intelligence is perceived by using large vocabulary.

Ghetto is perceived by being loud, obnoxious, dirty, or unintelligent.

 

These are just a few large judgements that are not a wrong way of thinking, but are simply human instinct. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we only function off instinct. What I am saying is that it is a choice that most people don't choose to be fully coherent to.

 

That being said I also want to continue introducing myself. I am a respectful, quiet person. However, my presence is welcomed for the simple fact that I love to have fun. Using intellect to my advantage, I make a lot of cheesy jokes/puns on the spot. I love to dance to anything even though I prefer edm music. (Yes even country, trap, and sometimes metal.) I never cause problems. I love trying anything new for the experience, never say no to dares, and I would definitely consider myself an adrenaline junky.

 

When it comes down to relationships, I am usually "The Friend" and I always help my guys out when it comes time to be a wingman. The problem I have is that I have thought a lot about is that, as hard as it is for me to say it, I have never been in a relationship. I've never even been as close as to hold hands with a woman. The problem I have is not confidence, talking, hygiene, dress, but simply because I'm a bad combination of short, skinny, and ugly. As a realist, I'm not offended to admit the truth.

 

The question I have is this: As much as I enjoy my free time, relaxation, video games, TV, meals, beach trips, partying, snorkeling, scuba diving, biking, hiking, writing, and drinking, is it worth it to dedicate everything to working out until I can't move, and eating until I puke, for a very long period of time, overall making myself miserable, just for the CHANCE that I could get big enough that maybe a woman will find me attractive for a nice body and consider spending time with me alone or should I just wait around for the right one (Which in all honesty will probably not happen)?

The two things that honestly scare me:

1) There are 2 times in my life that I have given up everything for each 1 year at a time in order to achieve an ultimate goal. Both times I came so close, both times, I failed. I took the challenge, made myself miserable in the same exact sense, one for training for special operations where I trained 3 times a day and ate 4800 calories a day, reaching 4% body fat. The other for very intense schooling where I was receiving an associates degree in 8 months time. Neither of the situations that I failed in, were my choice, but it was from an outside act forced upon me.

 

2) Every woman in my life with any form of significance has contributed to destroying my future, my father's future, my friends' health, turned people against me, and changed people I really cared about in the worst way. Without exposing too much detail, they were my close family, and women in power that went out of their way to contribute. I know this may be similar to an underlying phobia, but it's definitely real and leaves me to the conflict of "should I give up everything for a chance at something that has caused so much damage"

 

I don't know what the right answer is because I've never seen the other side. However, it's recently become a problem because I've been having a large amount of very memorable dreams of me spending a large amount of time with a woman that I began to like over time and just before I wake up, they turn me down, or end up with somebody else. It's starting to scare me because although I know a relationship is a biological craving, I've never felt this much pain over something I don't feel I have control of and I feel the need to do something.

 

I know it's a lot to read, but it's such an detailed question, I want to make myself fully understood instead of getting the "Yeah just go for it response". It's ultimately not something I want to do, but it's something that is presenting itself so prominently.

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Son, you are only 21 years old. Entirely too young to be thinking like this and analyzing things so intently. You have your entire life ahead of you and so much more to experience. The things you've experienced up to this point may have been difficult for you, but that should not be your center for projecting into the future. You are talking as though you've lived a lifetime and you haven't seen anything yet.

 

Every woman in my life with any form of significance -- It is very unfortunate that these women have caused you so much pain. However, just because these women did that, doesn't mean every woman will be like that. Whoever these women were were clearly toxic people. Don't let those experiences color your opinions/views or your vision for the future.

 

I've never felt this much pain over something I don't feel I have control of and I feel the need to do something. -- Something I hope you will learn as you get older, is not to feel pain about something you can't control but to actually feel relief for not having to be in control of things/everything. Learn how to accept that. And, in terms of finding a woman, you just need to let things happen naturally. You say you seem to just always be the "friend" and that may be to some degree about your past experience involving toxic women that causes you to "hold back" your natural ability to escalate a relationship when you find one you are attracted to. "Those other women hurt me, so this one will too if I let her know I like her in anyway". Sure, some will turn you down. You shouldn't take that too personally. Not everyone is going to be attracted to you just like you aren't attracted to every girl.

 

is it worth it to dedicate everything to working out until I can't move, and eating until I puke, for a very long period of time, overall making myself miserable, -- Give yourself a break. This is very unhealthy, physically and mentally And, if you're miserable all the time, you aren't going to come across very well to a potential dating partner. This will take it's toll on you. It might be wise to go to a doctor or nutritionist/personal trainer who will guide you properly toward being able to build your body the right way.

 

Get out of your own head for a while and just enjoy life. There is no rush to find a woman/relationship. Save that for when you've got your life established and on solid ground. And, don't be so hard on yourself.

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John you're doing it wrong.

 

You don't have to break your back or have muscles like Flash Gordon.

 

You do have to have self esteem, interests, grounded personality and pick wisely.

 

I went to visit an ageing aunt and uncle last week. The aunt has dementia. I was lucky. She knew who I was for 5 minutes. It wasn't a great visit if I am honest but...

 

I saw the way my uncle looked at her. Her mind is gone, she is a mess, a far cry from the proud woman she was. But he still sees that woman he married 60 odd years ago. He still loves that woman he married 60 odd years ago. He does not regret one single second of it even though he is now going through hell.

 

So yes. It is worth it when you get it right.

 

What others see when they look at you is not what you see in the mirror.

 

Concentrate on your career, going and doing those fun things and the rest will come. Ask girls out and shrug off the rejections. The right one will say yes and that is all that matters. All the ones that say no do not matter at all.

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JuneJulySeptember

I wouldn't do the working out thing.

 

You have to work out religiously and eat a pretty strict regimen for you to transform your body and even then, if your shirt is on, most women can't even notice. Women are more about face and height. If you woke up tomorrow looking like Brad Pitt, would that help? Oh yes. But that won't happen. :p

 

A lot, lot, LOT of work for small returns. Another thing like that would be learning to play the guitar. A ton of hours to be any good at all.

 

In general, my philosophy is that it is a numbers game and your best returns will come from going out and meeting a lot of women, especially for guys like you and me who aren't anywhere near the physical ideal for women.

 

But if you want to do something to improve your chances with women, do something with lower investment, higher returns. An example would be salsa dancing or swing dancing. It only takes several hours to get the basics down and that would put you above 90% of men who cannot do that. Will it help you get women? Probably not. But it's low investment, and just as likely to help you as say spending 5 years learning to play the guitar.

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normal person

"If I lift until I'm huge, women will like me!"

 

Such would be true if the only thing women cared about was how muscular you are. Seeing as you're young, I'll cut you some slack on this train of thought. Are your odds of raising eyebrows better being in shape than out of shape? For sure. Is working out endlessly going to yield better results commensurate to the time and sacrifice? Very, very, doubtful.

 

I'll save you a lot of trouble. Here's what you need to do to get women to like you: make them feel something. You need to be some combination of funny, exciting, entertaining, mysterious, etc. Will looks and other things you can't control play a part? Yes, but there's no point worrying about as it's out of your hands, mostly. There needs to be some aspect of you that makes her want to have more of you. If you humor and entertain a girl and make her feel "alive," the width of your biceps is almost irrelevant. Figure out how to make the fireworks go off in your brain. Think about the people you admire or love being around. What do they do to make you feel that way about them? Now, take whatever that thing is and do it to someone else.

 

Best of luck.

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So, right now I'm watching "My 600 Pound Life." Plenty of the 600-pounders are married and weren't exactly skinny when they walked down the aisle. Some conjoined twins get married, "little people" get married, paralyzed people get married, murderers in prison for life get married, people with a dozen kids get married, toothless meth addicts get married, mentally retarded people get married... I'm sorry, what was your question again?

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A philosopher that I read said that when we increase our sensitivity to pleasure, we also increase our sensitivity to pain/suffering.

 

Anything you derive pleasure from, has in itself, the potential of bringing you suffering.

 

Is it worth it, it will be up to you to decide but let me ask you a question. Knowing that as a human, you are going to die, did you stop sleeping at night?

 

Pain/suffering is unavoidable. Some of if can help you grow; the rest of it can feel useless as in - without purpose or meaning. Why choice do we have.

 

You will see that many guys are not muscular at all, yet women are attracted to them. There will be a specific reason why a specific women likes you. It's up to you to find out and remain congruent. It's like playing a part in a movie.

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Leadership is driven by a strong voice, and good train of thought.

Attraction is driven by looks, height, shape, weight, and communication.

Fitness is perceived to be men with bigger muscles and women with a smaller frame.

Organization is perceived to be clean cut hair and good train of thought.

Jocks are perceived to be the most flamboyant, or cocky, in a sport.

Geeks or nerds are perceived to be out of shape, whether it be fat or skinny, and smart.

Professionalism is perceived by uniformity and politeness.

Intelligence is perceived by using large vocabulary.

Ghetto is perceived by being loud, obnoxious, dirty, or unintelligent.

 

Leadership is an ability to gather people to follow - a leader is not strong, they are empowering. You can be strong without being a leader - think of a boss that just yells and bullies. Compare that to the quiet mom whose children listen and respect her. Which is the leader?

 

Fitness is not your body shape but your body's abilities. There are small, thin men who are very fit - think jockeys, track runners, endurance athletes. There are also large, incredibly fit women - lifters, track & field, triathletes, Crossfit competitors.

 

Geeks/nerds are considered intelligent, with a high focus on their preferred activity/field. However there are many, many very fit and "geeky" people.

 

What you're describing are really stereotypes, not "instinct." Seeing someone thin and smart and assuming they're "geeky" is making a judgment. Interacting with someone and feeling like they're not a match for you is closer to "instinct."

 

The problem I have is not confidence, talking, hygiene, dress, but simply because I'm a bad combination of short, skinny, and ugly. As a realist, I'm not offended to admit the truth.

 

You might be short, you might be thin framed. Lots of other guys are too. Ugly is an opinion. It's also an option. If you consider yourself ugly, you're going to make others see you that way... not consciously, but people pick up on those vibes. If you don't like yourself, how do you expect others to?

 

The question I have is this: As much as I enjoy my free time, relaxation, video games, TV, meals, beach trips, partying, snorkeling, scuba diving, biking, hiking, writing, and drinking, is it worth it to dedicate everything to working out until I can't move, and eating until I puke, for a very long period of time, overall making myself miserable, just for the CHANCE that I could get big enough that maybe a woman will find me attractive for a nice body and consider spending time with me alone or should I just wait around for the right one (Which in all honesty will probably not happen)?

 

It's only worth doing if it's something you're going to build into you're lifestyle and if it's something you enjoy. It only works if you do it for YOU. Fitness is for your body, your mental well being. Big muscles will not guarantee you a mate... Being fulfilled and doing things you love makes you 10000000 times more attractive.

 

Now, I do see you participate in several outdoor activities. Are they things you're passionate about? They're not exactly passive activities, I'll bet you have some lean muscle on you. If you're insistent on muscle building, do it because the weight training will improve your performance in those activities you enjoy. But killing yourself over it for anyone but yourself is how you burn out, lose passion, and become bitter about the whole thing.

 

You're way overthinking it all. This isn't a game of statistics and there is no pack mating hierarchy. Enjoy who you are, and eventually someone will come along who enjoys you as much as you do.

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Leadership is an ability to gather people to follow - a leader is not strong, they are empowering. You can be strong without being a leader - think of a boss that just yells and bullies. Compare that to the quiet mom whose children listen and respect her. Which is the leader?

 

Fitness is not your body shape but your body's abilities. There are small, thin men who are very fit - think jockeys, track runners, endurance athletes. There are also large, incredibly fit women - lifters, track & field, triathletes, Crossfit competitors.

 

Geeks/nerds are considered intelligent, with a high focus on their preferred activity/field. However there are many, many very fit and "geeky" people.

 

What you're describing are really stereotypes, not "instinct." Seeing someone thin and smart and assuming they're "geeky" is making a judgment. Interacting with someone and feeling like they're not a match for you is closer to "instinct."

 

 

 

You might be short, you might be thin framed. Lots of other guys are too. Ugly is an opinion. It's also an option. If you consider yourself ugly, you're going to make others see you that way... not consciously, but people pick up on those vibes. If you don't like yourself, how do you expect others to?

 

 

 

It's only worth doing if it's something you're going to build into you're lifestyle and if it's something you enjoy. It only works if you do it for YOU. Fitness is for your body, your mental well being. Big muscles will not guarantee you a mate... Being fulfilled and doing things you love makes you 10000000 times more attractive.

 

Now, I do see you participate in several outdoor activities. Are they things you're passionate about? They're not exactly passive activities, I'll bet you have some lean muscle on you. If you're insistent on muscle building, do it because the weight training will improve your performance in those activities you enjoy. But killing yourself over it for anyone but yourself is how you burn out, lose passion, and become bitter about the whole thing.

 

You're way overthinking it all. This isn't a game of statistics and there is no pack mating hierarchy. Enjoy who you are, and eventually someone will come along who enjoys you as much as you do.

 

I specifically wanted to reply to you because I agree with you, but disagree. I kept the "Instincts" in there because they are a perception of reality, not actual reality. For instance, a mother speaking softly and listening well is most definitely more of a leader than a man that barks orders, however it's not recognizable to see that. If you looked at a quiet, maybe slightly depressed woman in her mid 30s, you wouldn't see a leader, as opposed to you might if you saw a large, buff man with a deep voice telling people how it's going to be. It's not truth, but it is judgement; and judgement is simply human nature.

 

I am also tied close to what you were talking about with fitness. being my short, thin stature I have not once met a person where their first thought is "Damn he must be fast, strong, and athletic". However, I am highly competitive and have been volunteered to lead physical training activities and sporting events by people that have trained with me.

 

On the note where experiences make you look attractive, I have very thoroughly enjoyed my single life. Definitely love trying new things and getting good at them. Everything from doing gainers in a trampoline park, to free diving in the ocean, to killing soccer on the turf. However through these 21 years of great experiences, I have had not a single woman find me attractive.

 

And lastly, I do consider myself ugly, but I don't have any reason not to. Sure I may be subconsciously making myself ugly, but what's to say otherwise. I mean I got hit on by a gay guy once when I was 14, does that count for anything?

 

I guess I just need a reason for women to like me? Because having fun, and doing things I love is not a reason. And apparently, my personality isn't either from what I gathered from another comment, which I think may be true because I have talked to a lot of women. They almost treat me like a gay dude in most cases.

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"If I lift until I'm huge, women will like me!"

 

Such would be true if the only thing women cared about was how muscular you are. Seeing as you're young, I'll cut you some slack on this train of thought. Are your odds of raising eyebrows better being in shape than out of shape? For sure. Is working out endlessly going to yield better results commensurate to the time and sacrifice? Very, very, doubtful.

 

I'll save you a lot of trouble. Here's what you need to do to get women to like you: make them feel something. You need to be some combination of funny, exciting, entertaining, mysterious, etc. Will looks and other things you can't control play a part? Yes, but there's no point worrying about as it's out of your hands, mostly. There needs to be some aspect of you that makes her want to have more of you. If you humor and entertain a girl and make her feel "alive," the width of your biceps is almost irrelevant. Figure out how to make the fireworks go off in your brain. Think about the people you admire or love being around. What do they do to make you feel that way about them? Now, take whatever that thing is and do it to someone else.

 

Best of luck.

 

Thanks, I appreciate the answer because I feel like you're definitely right, however in my opinion the reason people like hanging around me is mainly because they don't expect me to do what I do. They just accept me because I'm down for anything. Atleast that's my reasoning. We only become good friends because I surprise them and when they do something that most people won't and I respect them for it. And I mean when I'm somewhere and I'm trying to game, I always make her laugh and I feel like I'm sure she's having a good time, but it never gets past that. Guess I'm just not sure where the disconnect is to be completely honest. Like any other human being, I just assume what I can't explain... especially if it makes sense.... short, skinny, ugly.

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If you're insistent on muscle building, do it because the weight training will improve your performance in those activities you enjoy. But killing yourself over it for anyone but yourself is how you burn out, lose passion, and become bitter about the whole thing.

A philosopher that I read said that when we increase our sensitivity to pleasure, we also increase our sensitivity to pain/suffering.

 

Anything you derive pleasure from, has in itself, the potential of bringing you suffering.

 

Is it worth it, it will be up to you to decide but let me ask you a question. Knowing that as a human, you are going to die, did you stop sleeping at night?

 

Pain/suffering is unavoidable. Some of if can help you grow; the rest of it can feel useless as in - without purpose or meaning. Why choice do we have.

 

You will see that many guys are not muscular at all, yet women are attracted to them. There will be a specific reason why a specific women likes you. It's up to you to find out and remain congruent. It's like playing a part in a movie.

 

What I got from that is pain=love, and I'm looking for pain.

I'm going for it.

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So, right now I'm watching "My 600 Pound Life." Plenty of the 600-pounders are married and weren't exactly skinny when they walked down the aisle. Some conjoined twins get married, "little people" get married, paralyzed people get married, murderers in prison for life get married, people with a dozen kids get married, toothless meth addicts get married, mentally retarded people get married... I'm sorry, what was your question again?

 

 

I want a passionate relationship, not lowered expectations from self doubt.

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I wouldn't do the working out thing.

 

You have to work out religiously and eat a pretty strict regimen for you to transform your body and even then, if your shirt is on, most women can't even notice. Women are more about face and height. If you woke up tomorrow looking like Brad Pitt, would that help? Oh yes. But that won't happen. :p

 

A lot, lot, LOT of work for small returns. Another thing like that would be learning to play the guitar. A ton of hours to be any good at all.

 

In general, my philosophy is that it is a numbers game and your best returns will come from going out and meeting a lot of women, especially for guys like you and me who aren't anywhere near the physical ideal for women.

 

But if you want to do something to improve your chances with women, do something with lower investment, higher returns. An example would be salsa dancing or swing dancing. It only takes several hours to get the basics down and that would put you above 90% of men who cannot do that. Will it help you get women? Probably not. But it's low investment, and just as likely to help you as say spending 5 years learning to play the guitar.

 

I like that, definitely thinking outside the box. I guess personally I almost feel like it's cheating haha xD. But hey I'll keep it in my bag of tricks.

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John you're doing it wrong.

 

You don't have to break your back or have muscles like Flash Gordon.

 

You do have to have self esteem, interests, grounded personality and pick wisely.

 

I went to visit an ageing aunt and uncle last week. The aunt has dementia. I was lucky. She knew who I was for 5 minutes. It wasn't a great visit if I am honest but...

 

I saw the way my uncle looked at her. Her mind is gone, she is a mess, a far cry from the proud woman she was. But he still sees that woman he married 60 odd years ago. He still loves that woman he married 60 odd years ago. He does not regret one single second of it even though he is now going through hell.

 

So yes. It is worth it when you get it right.

 

What others see when they look at you is not what you see in the mirror.

 

Concentrate on your career, going and doing those fun things and the rest will come. Ask girls out and shrug off the rejections. The right one will say yes and that is all that matters. All the ones that say no do not matter at all.

 

Thinking about how you put it, I only ask the ones out that actually seem interested, the ones that look at me when I talk to them, or laugh when theres obviously something funny. I'm almost more afraid of a girl that doesn't like me saying "yes", rather than her saying "no".

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Get out of your own head for a while and just enjoy life. There is no rush to find a woman/relationship. Save that for when you've got your life established and on solid ground. And, don't be so hard on yourself.

 

It's just how I am. I am a very passionate and driven person. If I can't get something right I will beat myself up until I do. This is something I've chosen to ignore for a lot of my life, but it's definitely eating me alive. Even just a woman that wants to talk to me for a change. Really anything at this point. It's just so frustrating.

 

Also, me being a picky person probably doesn't help either.

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I think I am in love with you John Dough :love::love::love::love::love::love:

 

All your concerns are MY concerns OMG!! You just talked me down as all the things you've mentioned are straight out of my head.

 

Sigh. I hope, I can get past these thoughts too.

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John, take it from someone who has actual experience, goes to festivals and has done exactly what you are contemplating.

 

 

Yes!!!

 

By all means, do it!!

 

You will never be huge (as I won't either), there are genetics involved.

 

However, if you develop a good, aesthetically pleasing body shape, it definitely helps you get a huge, huge, ridiculous selection of women to choose from.

 

In a way, that can be bad. There are studies out there that show when a person is presented with a few items on a store shelf, they choose readily. When the number of items increases, they suffer an indecision paralysis.

 

Basically, this is a problem I now have. I'm so ridiculously picky now (because there is a stream of new women constantly coming in) that I can't focus on one. This was never an issue in the past. Now, it's confusing. Be aware this is a side effect.

 

I'm already a too confident, bordering on cocky (but not quite) person. Confidence is important, as others have mentioned, but you have correctly identified true human behavior in your initial post.

 

As the famous quote from Eastern philosophy goes...

 

It's easier to change yourself than to change the world.

 

Do it. You'll be glad you did.

 

Feels kind of nice having women look as you walk down the street too. :)

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It is a long post and yet what I took away is that it all boiled down to what a challenge you see it as to get up to a better weight. I think if that's what you think is holding you back, you need to talk to a psychologist and see if you have an eating disorder.

 

You may just be naturally thin, but that's actually not very common. Anyway, it's something you can change and the thought of eating good food shouldn't make you want to puke, and that's why I think you have an actual disorder. Probably no worse than mine is, being overly fat, mind you, but it is stopping you from moving forward, so you need to fix it. It's compulsive. I saw talk to someone about that asap. Good luck.

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John, take it from someone who has actual experience, goes to festivals and has done exactly what you are contemplating.

 

 

Yes!!!

 

By all means, do it!!

 

You will never be huge (as I won't either), there are genetics involved.

 

However, if you develop a good, aesthetically pleasing body shape, it definitely helps you get a huge, huge, ridiculous selection of women to choose from.

 

In a way, that can be bad. There are studies out there that show when a person is presented with a few items on a store shelf, they choose readily. When the number of items increases, they suffer an indecision paralysis.

 

Basically, this is a problem I now have. I'm so ridiculously picky now (because there is a stream of new women constantly coming in) that I can't focus on one. This was never an issue in the past. Now, it's confusing. Be aware this is a side effect.

 

I'm already a too confident, bordering on cocky (but not quite) person. Confidence is important, as others have mentioned, but you have correctly identified true human behavior in your initial post.

 

As the famous quote from Eastern philosophy goes...

 

It's easier to change yourself than to change the world.

 

Do it. You'll be glad you did.

 

Feels kind of nice having women look as you walk down the street too. :)

 

Bro. I'm so glad you said this. I'm going for it and this is what I'll have in mind. I will forever be in love with festivals, and that will be just one more motivator saying "Look where you can be"

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It is a long post and yet what I took away is that it all boiled down to what a challenge you see it as to get up to a better weight. I think if that's what you think is holding you back, you need to talk to a psychologist and see if you have an eating disorder.

 

You may just be naturally thin, but that's actually not very common. Anyway, it's something you can change and the thought of eating good food shouldn't make you want to puke, and that's why I think you have an actual disorder. Probably no worse than mine is, being overly fat, mind you, but it is stopping you from moving forward, so you need to fix it. It's compulsive. I saw talk to someone about that asap. Good luck.

 

I know it's a shock to a lot of people that would love to eat without gaining weight, but because of my metabolism and genetics, I am hindered from gaining weight from regular meals. I currently eat 1 very large portion per meal 3 times a day. However, if I want to gain weight I will need to be forcing myself to eat. Because I have just started this routine I am eating 6 meals 3 times a day, and I want to point out, it's not fun by any means. It's the complete opposite of your problem, but it's still most definitely a problem.

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I think I am in love with you John Dough :love::love::love::love::love::love:

 

All your concerns are MY concerns OMG!! You just talked me down as all the things you've mentioned are straight out of my head.

 

Sigh. I hope, I can get past these thoughts too.

 

I appreciate that xD however, in my personal opinion, I think something needs to be done in order for it to change. Hence the reason why I need to go hard as hell in the gym and in my meals. If you find a different outsource, then by all means go for it. But at this point, especially after talking to a lot of people here, change of pace is required and what better way than to getting my head straight and looking sexy naked.

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Bro. I'm so glad you said this. I'm going for it and this is what I'll have in mind. I will forever be in love with festivals, and that will be just one more motivator saying "Look where you can be"

 

Hopefully, you can find a way around the force feeding part.

 

I didn't do any force feeding.

 

I think I started a little bit heavier than you describe... a tiny bit.

 

I identified where my shape wasn't stacking up to the ideal shape women like and even asked a few lady friends what I needed to change.

 

Then, I made those changes. It was all upper body because I was snow/skate boarding, biking, hiking all my life. Legs were always over developed from that.

 

I used (use) test boosters and protein with a normal diet.

 

But... as the muscle grows your appetite will naturally increase anyway.

 

If you got Electric Forest tix before they sold out, btw... i hate you. :D

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You sound just like me when I was your age. When I graduated high school I was approx 5'10" and around 145lbs.

 

I too struggled with living in the friend zone and was the class clown and comic relief for the guys that were getting girls.

 

I wasn't an actual virgin and I did have a high Scholl GF my senior year and had a couple GF s in the few years after high school. I could get GF s that knew me but I couldn't attract girls that were not in my circle and I couldn't get hook ups or FWBs or FB s or anything.

 

That changed like a like switch when I hit around 165lbs and had visible muscle development in my mid 20s and about a year after Basic Training.

 

Here's a slogan to burn into your brain - muscles on dudes are like tits on chicks.

 

Now here's the thing I think you are missing, you sound like a bit of an extremist and an "all-or-nothing" kind of person that becomes obsessed and of total focus when you do something. You don't need to do that. You don't need to spend 24/7 eating dehydrated kelp fritters and spending 16 hours in the gym and you don't need to be a 250lb muscle bound giant.

 

You need a lean, athletic physique with visible muscular development. In otherwords your muscles need to be visible, they don't need to be "big".

 

So to answer your initial question the answer is YES, it will be worth it to engage in a programmed bodybuilding routine that focuses on muscular growth and development.

 

It will be worth it because the cost will not need to be as high as what you are thinking it will be.

 

A balance, nutritious, common sense diet of adequate (not outrageous) caloric intake with a little extra protein and a sound full-body weight training program geared towards mass growth is all you need.

 

You don't need to spend two hours in the gym a couple times a day and you don't need an extreme diet. A linear progression weight training program that focuses on heavy, compound lifts like squats, deadliest, bench presses, rows and overhead presses and a healthy protein rich diet will do the trick.

 

I reccommend finding an actual bodybuilding gym and hiring an actual bodybuilding coach initially to get you off to the right start. If that coach doesn't have you doing squats, deadlifts, rows, bench press etc initially and has you doing 6 different forms of curls and anything o do with big rubber balls, find another coach.

 

If the gym has a bunch of people on treadmills reading magazines and watching tv. Find another gym. Find a gym that has multiple squat racks and deadlift platforms and has guys that actually grunt and sweat while they are lifting.

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I want to mention another thing about responses on posts like these where skinny dudes bitch about their girl problems.

 

Women will come on to these threads and say things about a guy's character and how he needs to develop his confidence and that he needs to be a good person blah blah blah and the right girl will come along some day blah blah blah.

 

Here's the catch and what they are not telling you - they are not telling you that the guys they went home from the bar with last had muscles and wasn't scrawny.

 

They know eventually their fat, desperate friends will break down and date a skinny dude when they realize they can't get anyone else, but they themselves haven't actually hooked up with a skinny dude.

 

Take it from someone who has been on both sides of the fence, muscles matter. Muscles on dudes are like tits on chicks, they get noticed and they drop pants.

 

You don't have to be a huge competitive bodybuilder on stage in Speedos flexing and posing. But visible muscular development pays huge dividends over having stick arms and legs and IS worth the effort. (Again keeping in mind that the effort isn't as much as you are making it out to be)

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