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Men and women would be better off romantically if...


LookAtThisPOst

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LookAtThisPOst

...they spent more time being friends first.

 

The aforementioned seems to be rather true as a lot, unfortunately, seem to rely upon the "big bang theory" of attraction, "instant spark" and all that crap. That's why online dating is rather flawed, as it relies on instant gratification up on first meet and a lot of pressure to have a relationship right away.

 

In person, the other alternative allows for this romantic aspect to grow over time as you get to know each other.

 

I fall in this category and sometimes attribute my (and others) challenges in dating to having met meeting many people that have the "other" belief on how dating should work and likely why ONLINE dating doesn't work for some people.

 

Thoughts on this? It does make sense.

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Everybody is wired differently

 

I have never fallen for a guy who was my friend first. When I meet somebody if the spark is there I pursued a romance. I'm able to snuff it out when I'm in a relationship; the "attraction" doesn't go beyond the superficial "gee he's cute" when I'm not available. Anyway, even if I had some spark, if the guy wasn't interested & we became friends, the friendship dampened the romance. If I'd allready been inside his head, talking about his other relationships, he lost all sexuality for me & became my friend only.

 

On the flip side, DH & I have been married for almost 7 years. I'm only now starting to explore the friendship / best playmate side of our relationship. It took a while to build up the confidant side of things (& to bring him out of his shell; as a vet & a stoic guy he isn't the most talkative person).

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In theory this might scan, and in the past when people weren't as mobile and everyone knew everyone in their little 'burg' and people paired off with people they knew, it often worked well. Then came jet aircraft, the sexual revolution and equal rights and society became much more mobile and fast-paced. Times changed.

 

Personally, I haven't known a woman long enough to become friends then ask her on a date, at least successfully. Well I have but they've gone through multiple boyfriends and even a husband or two in some cases. IMO, people adapt to their local demographic or die, romantically anyway. The guys who were successful with women didn't do the friends thing and, once I got over my natural proclivities and started paying attention to what successful men did, I got dates, relationships and a marriage too. On the other end, I simply don't wish to depart so markedly from my natural style just to say, wow, I've got a date or a girlfriend or a wife so I do what I do and life goes on.

 

Since I'm surrounded by married folks, I'd say their way is working just fine. IMO, they shouldn't change a thing.

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LookAtThisPOst
On the flip side, DH & I have been married for almost 7 years. I'm only now starting to explore the friendship

 

I'm on the fence on whether it's an "on the fence" thing or not about us being "wired" a certain way when it comes to dating. I'm currently in touch with a woman, that I think likes me, but has always run into men that rush things quickly with her and not a friendship nurture.

 

One man accused her of putting him in the friendzone and just using him for free meals of which he paid. She was actually offended by this as this was not true, she implied that if he didn't cut her off like he did immediately, and just gave their friendship a longer time to process...they would have turned into something more.

 

I sometimes wonder that's why so many relationships are short lived and divorces are on the rise because people just dove right in without letting any kind of friendship develop (its more of a familiarity, too).

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The woman you described doesn't make sense to me. If I am dating a man, there is some physical involved even if we do delay sex. In that context I still try to keep things economically fair but if we are just friends no way in heck am I going to stick a guy with the check. I will pay my share. Dating & social norms aside, I try not to be a militant femanazi about splitting the costs but except for the rare occasions in my past when I knew the man made substantially more money then me if we weren't dating, I didn't accept the freebies.

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fitnessfan365

In reality, the typical dynamic is - lovers first and friends second.

 

Friends first is usually based on - a man afraid to pursue or a woman rejecting him and only wanting to be friends. In either case, the chance of a romantic attraction happening is slim to none.

 

When you hear someone say that they married their "best friend" it's usually two people that became best friends after being in a relationship for years.

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utilisateur
...they spent more time being friends first.

 

The aforementioned seems to be rather true as a lot, unfortunately, seem to rely upon the "big bang theory" of attraction, "instant spark" and all that crap. That's why online dating is rather flawed, as it relies on instant gratification up on first meet and a lot of pressure to have a relationship right away.

 

In person, the other alternative allows for this romantic aspect to grow over time as you get to know each other.

 

I fall in this category and sometimes attribute my (and others) challenges in dating to having met meeting many people that have the "other" belief on how dating should work and likely why ONLINE dating doesn't work for some people.

 

Thoughts on this? It does make sense.

 

My female therapist told me this but I am highly doubtful it works. Isn't it kind of dishonest and deceitful to want to be friends with somebody because you are attracted to them, and then to proposition them for a date out of the blue? Even if the guy ends up liking the woman as a person and they both like each others' company as friends?

 

Women, how would you feel if you heard this from a male friend: "Jess, will you go out with me? I've liked you since the day three years ago that we became friends and wanted to ask you out. Now that I'm no longer with my ex, want to go out on a date with me?"

 

I'm wondering whether what normally happens is that two people notice a spark between each other become "friends" but continue to flirt with each other until one of them (usually the man) finally makes a move. I don't know...I was abused as a kid so I have no idea if this is what people do.

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loveweary11

"Men and women would be better off romantically if..."

 

 

They were gay.

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GoodOnPaper
Thoughts on this? It does make sense.

 

It makes perfect sense, but I also know that I am one of the very few people wired this way -- where friendship and romantic feelings are two parts of the same spectrum as opposed to being two completely separate tracks. Maybe it's part of being introverted or being a "nice guy" or a "struggling guy", but I know that if I feel comfortable enough with a woman that I want to spend a lot of time with her and have heart-to-heart level discussions, I'm going to fall for her . . . end of story.

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I've hardly ever dated a stranger. Every significant, long-term relationship I've ever had started out as a friendship first.

 

In college, I hung out with different groups of people and became friends with them, was introduced to their friends and made more friends, etc. Same for after college. I'd make friends at work, at my yoga and belly dancing classes, running club, whatever and then met their friends and eventually started dating someone who had been a friend first, either a casual friend or closer than that.

 

It's a fantastic way to date and meet someone who can become truly meaningful to you!!! You really get to know people when you hang out with them for months or years. Sometimes there's a spark right away, but sometimes there isn't and it grows and grows when you see what kind of person they are and how they treat other people.

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In reality, the typical dynamic is - lovers first and friends second.

 

Friends first is usually based on - a man afraid to pursue or a woman rejecting him and only wanting to be friends. In either case, the chance of a romantic attraction happening is slim to none.

 

When you hear someone say that they married their "best friend" it's usually two people that became best friends after being in a relationship for years.

 

Yep, in general, I agree and this is what I observed successful men doing. My personal issue was I never met a woman I wanted to be lovers with right off the bat; well, I did meet one but she turned out to be married after a couple months of 'lover'. Hence, the style simply failed due to time; in the time I found attraction, the woman already had a new boyfriend because, well, the successful men didn't concern themselves with such things. Their parts got hard and a healthy woman likes a man with hard parts in hot pursuit. That's how the world works, in general.

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Sounds like a lot of beating around the bush and wasting time. How long does this "friendship" period last? A week? A month? A few months? Is the woman you are romantically interested in aware of your preferred friendship-to-relationship time frame? Do you skip dating and go straight from friendship to relationship, or is there friendship-to-dating-to-relationship? I would expect any woman or man to be completely confused by this.

 

And how do you tell a woman you are only interested in her as a friend first, but maybe down the road you would be interested in dating her, after you get to know her?

 

Now, if you WERE friends first...actually friends without any romantic interest in each other, and down the road you became attracted to her and acted on it, that's a different story.

 

But what it sounds like you are talking about is hiding your romantic interest until she sees how good a friend you are to her, and hoping that she will develop romantic feelings. Either that, or you don't really like her that much but hope that after becoming friends with her that you will yourself develop feelings?

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Most of the tine this wont work.

 

Most of the time men are attracted to their female friends. We have all heard Chris Rock. :lmao: So little chance of friendship on that end.

 

Usually, if im picking a man as a friend im choosing someone who is very unattractive to me. This can be alleviated by picking sexu guy friends, but hey, thats not exactly friendship either...

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I've hardly ever dated a stranger. Every significant, long-term relationship I've ever had started out as a friendship first.

 

In college, I hung out with different groups of people and became friends with them, was introduced to their friends and made more friends, etc. Same for after college. I'd make friends at work, at my yoga and belly dancing classes, running club, whatever and then met their friends and eventually started dating someone who had been a friend first, either a casual friend or closer than that.

 

It's a fantastic way to date and meet someone who can become truly meaningful to you!!! You really get to know people when you hang out with them for months or years. Sometimes there's a spark right away, but sometimes there isn't and it grows and grows when you see what kind of person they are and how they treat other people.

 

 

Maybe you thought they were friends, but they were most likely checking you out.

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GravityMan

I don't agree, OP...even though d0nnivain's right in that everyone's wired differently (and even the SAME person might want to move things forward rapidly with woman A, but take things slower with woman B). For most adults, they sense very quickly (as in within a few minutes or even seconds) whether they're potentially attracted to someone or not. It's intuitive, natural and not something a person can control...it just is what it is. The attraction can grow or fade over time depending on a variety of factors. So in most cases, the "friends first" option is taken off the table almost immediately.

 

Note that I said "potentially attracted". That does not necessarily mean that the person knows within a few seconds whether they want to actually DATE the guy/woman, or be in a relationship with him/her. It can shake out that way sometimes, but usually you have to at least chat with each other for a bit to see if you're OK with actually going out on a date. The decision to date someone IS within a person's control, unlike raw attraction.

 

Rester makes a good distinction here - there's a difference between deliberately being friends first before dating...and just naturally being friends (with no foresight of future intimacy) and then some months or years later things naturally and unexpectedly turn romantic. The former is a bad idea, don't do it. The latter occurs pretty commonly - especially among teens and young adults who are still growing and learning about themselves.

 

I think men and women would be better off romantically if they stopped thinking/trying so hard and over-analyzing everything. Just relax and live a little. Some reasonable standards are important to have, however it's interesting, liberating and fun to just go for it and let the chips fall where they may...instead of waiting until every I is dotted and T is crossed.

 

I also think it would help if they were more open to having opposite-sex friends in general...especially during their formative years in high school and college. Not a "friends first, then date" deal...but just a normal friend or acquaintance. That may help them learn how to RELATE better to each other, and understand (generally speaking) how the opposite-sex mind works. I think a guy with some good male AND female friends is less likely to put a woman he's dating on a pedestal, and more likely to view the date as "just a date where we can have fun & hopefully enjoy each other's company...if it leads to something more special, great; if not, no biggie".

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i always try to be friends first, and for a VERY long time. i've tried internet dating and my preference is for a long friendship first. but, my success rate with friends has been no better than men i met from online and dated. in fact, a long friendship could be worse; the more you know someone the easier it is to know their weak (and strong) points and upset one another much faster

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Love Chris Rock. His views on relationships are generally spot on. With that said, I do think that more people could benefit if they tried being friends with someone first. I am a bit biased though, because that is generally my preferred method of dating. I just talk to women, spend time with them, and see where it goes. If I find them attractive, and I enjoy spending time with them without having to f*ck em, then we might be on the road to something more.

 

I do think that a slower pace can help. Longer courtships perhaps? Ive found it almost impossible to find a guy willing to move slowly unless theres distance between us. *shrug*

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LookAtThisPOst

The woman that I had recently encountered...I think she's just wanting to make friends because...well...she has none. When it winds up being men, these men tend to want to date her and not want to be friends...whether or not there's an attraction to them on her end, may not be relevant.

 

She told me of a time where a man brought her to an event with his friends, and they were already assuming they were a couple and patting him on the back saying, "You did good!" Giving him the thumbs up, and she's like "OMG!! We barely went out a couple of times!"

 

It's been a pattern with her and "male friends" where somewhere down the line, after a few nights out together that the man deemed her a "woman they are dating now." or even "girlfriend."

 

Apparently, this has been a thorn in her side and a pattern that's been occurring with her and male "friends."

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LookAtThisPOst

I got another situation for you (another woman). I know this woman in Meetup, usually I only see her at events...but she's been hanging around this one male friend all the time. They are just friends, nothing more.

 

I have known her longer than this guy has, me and her have the same sense of humor, but I don't think of her in a romantic or dating way. I got access to see a screening of a movie and allowed a +1.

 

I usually randomly pick friends to go with me as a +1 since the advance screening allows it.

 

I had asked her if she'd like to come and she said, "You mean as a date or as friends?" and I said, "As friends". She was like "Oh...okay, well....I'm busy that night."

 

I had tried a couple other times to get together with her and her other friends she's been hanging out "off to the side", but I think she's a part of this little "clique" recently. I think she was just using the "friends" line to get me out of her hair, but when I said I was okay with a friendship...she still blows me off...but funny, she likes hanging out with some other man all the time....I think it's because she has the hots for him and he's good looking....but he'd never date her.

 

But it's like some women use the "friends" line to get you off their back, even though you're actually OKAY with doing things as friends.

 

SO I'm just saying it's rather moot to ask a woman out "as friends" because they use "the friends" line to get you out of their hair...and they actually DO NOT want you even as a friend in their lives.

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Well, when i meet a man i am interested in, i dont want to be his friend, I want more. Simple as that. Of course i dont suddenly jump into a relationship, there's a "get to know" phase called dating.

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LookAtThisPOst
Well, when i meet a man i am interested in, i dont want to be his friend, I want more. Simple as that. Of course i dont suddenly jump into a relationship, there's a "get to know" phase called dating.

 

Yeah you'd think it'd be that cut and dry, but I think this woman doesn't have many friends in her life and she's trying to get friendships more than dating relationships, but it all seems to be back firing 'cause.

 

1. The "friends" she's been encountering are male.

2. Her male friends ALL want to DATE her.

3. She does have some female friends, but they haven't been really the kind of friends she clicks with.

 

So its been a loose-loose situation with her and seems to value friendships, in general, more so than a relationship.

 

Basically, she's new to Meetup, but is trying to establish a social circle of friends first before anything else.

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SammySammy

I think relationships would be better off if people were friends DURING the relationship. Many of the problems most couples have start as unkind, inconsiderate and selfish behavior. Too much game-playing and trying to date using ridiculous "rules" designed to screw each other over.

 

If only we would be true friends during the relationship, how we met wouldn't matter much.

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Grumpybutfun

I have friends...even female ones. When I met my wife, the last thing I was thinking of was making her my friend. I wanted to make her mine. And I did. We are friends....best friends...but that developed over time as it should....the desire to make her mine was primal and indicative that she was more than just a friend.

G

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I got another situation for you (another woman). I know this woman in Meetup, usually I only see her at events...but she's been hanging around this one male friend all the time. They are just friends, nothing more.

 

I have known her longer than this guy has, me and her have the same sense of humor, but I don't think of her in a romantic or dating way. I got access to see a screening of a movie and allowed a +1.

 

I usually randomly pick friends to go with me as a +1 since the advance screening allows it.

 

I had asked her if she'd like to come and she said, "You mean as a date or as friends?" and I said, "As friends". She was like "Oh...okay, well....I'm busy that night."

 

 

Surely that means, she would have accepted a date, but she doesn't need to go to the movies and waste her time with just another guy "friend" so she declined.

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LookAtThisPOst
the desire to make her mine was primal

 

I think that's the part I intend to avoid, the primal part as I'm above that (no offense to you.) Though, I'm thinking since it's primal, and she is....well, your wife...how can you assure the longevity of your marriage and not wind up the typical divorce statistic? (Not saying anything will happen with your marriage.)

 

I'm just kind of seeing how someone can act primarily and actually consider marriage with something when thinking with your "other head" because when I think primal...I think the person is thinking with their genitalia and not with the brain.

 

I recall, now divorced men admitting and fessing up that when they married their wives, that they married a pair of t*ts...meaning that they married their wife for that big juggs and not for them.

 

Yes, people even MARRY for superficial reasons...arm candy pretty much. The aforementioned woman I was talking about likes me because I don't consider her like arm candy like so many men she's veered away from that attempted to do this with her.

 

I mean, if you're going to act on your primal urges...why not just live together...why get married? I'd figured people who act on primal urges aren't committed to the "M" word. LOL

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