BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 okay, well I know and am aware of how guys are expected to be assertive, as in, it's the guys role to do the pursuing, be the initiator, the long and short of it? approach the girl first and ask her out, take the lead all the time, so how do you do it without coming across as needy or desperate? I will admit, it often times feels like a paradox of damned if you do, damned if you don't, because if I don't do anything, don't take action, obviously nothing will happen between the girl and the guy, and if I do take action, it can come across as needy or desperate, which obviously girls are repulsed by. Also, another thing, why is it okay for a woman to need or want a relationship more than a guy does, because from doing some research online, it mentions that being needy, desperate are feminine traits, but yet guys, men are expected to be the ones to go after what you want, so it sounds illogical like that, you would think the person that is allowed to be needy, desperate, should be the one that goes after what you want, is the one that actively pursues, but yet reality is not like that. Its that it seems its far more important for a man to be comfortable and content while single than the other way around. Much easier said than done if you are going through a long dry spell, or worse yet, always been single, but I obviously gotta do something about it if I want change in my life. Link to post Share on other sites
La.Primavera Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 If you want to get to know someone then let them know you are interested. That would be considered assertive. If she is doesn't respond positively or doesn't commit to plans and mucks you around, do not continue to pursue her. Have standards of how you expect to be treated by a potential partner and do not put up with less. That indicates that you are not needy or desperate for her attention. By not appearing desperate for one person's approval you are sending a clear message that you have other options, which is good. It is not worth getting hung up on one person who is disrespectful, although plenty of people do it and that tends to weaken their self-esteem. It is better to move on to the next potential date before it gets to that point. Find someone who appreciates you for all your qualities and who treats you with dignity and respect. This doesn't just apply to men in dating but woman as well. Women have more experience expressing their vulnerable side but I would argue against labeling needy and desperate as feminine traits as they are undesirable traits in both men and women. I think it is important to be yourself, treat others with respect and expect the same in return. If someone doesn't show enough interest, its not worth sticking round to beg for their attention. Move on to the next because they might be the one you are looking for. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) one word ....initiative takes assertiveness ASSERTIVENESS IS COURAGE IN SPITE OF FEAR.....to act even though the outcome is unknown...the unknown scares most people..to not blindly follow and agree but to have a voice......to stand up ....the more you stand up ......the more you gain assertiveness..... true leaders are assertive.... solid....they arent arrogant and cocky...they dont speak in raised voices....leaders always take into consideration...the thoughts and feelings fo others...but still can assert change...by being a listener as well as a speaker.truly assertive men are willing to admit defeat mistakes and errors.....they actually are humble spirits...they just dont take crap.....that to me is true leadership...true assertiveness....and men among men.........deb Edited May 16, 2015 by todreaminblue 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 If you want to get to know someone then let them know you are interested. That would be considered assertive. If she is doesn't respond positively or doesn't commit to plans and mucks you around, do not continue to pursue her. Have standards of how you expect to be treated by a potential partner and do not put up with less. That indicates that you are not needy or desperate for her attention. By not appearing desperate for one person's approval you are sending a clear message that you have other options, which is good. It is not worth getting hung up on one person who is disrespectful, although plenty of people do it and that tends to weaken their self-esteem. It is better to move on to the next potential date before it gets to that point. Find someone who appreciates you for all your qualities and who treats you with dignity and respect. This doesn't just apply to men in dating but woman as well. Women have more experience expressing their vulnerable side but I would argue against labeling needy and desperate as feminine traits as they are undesirable traits in both men and women. I think it is important to be yourself, treat others with respect and expect the same in return. If someone doesn't show enough interest, its not worth sticking round to beg for their attention. Move on to the next because they might be the one you are looking for. Good luck. I guess it was from reading the book "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida, and some articles by Dr. Robert Glover, who wrote a sort of known book for men titled "No More Mr. Nice-Guy", they were kinda implying on how being needy, desperate is feminine. Link to post Share on other sites
mario_C Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What chances do you take in life aside from asking girls on dates? (Which is the hard part, I know, it's so easy after you do that ) Looking for a job, establishing your career, pursuing your dreams? It takes bravery to do these things, and you build your bravery up by doing these things. It takes dedication, doing new scary things every chance you can - for example, last year I quit my job, bought a new car and started my new career as an Ub3r driver. It was scary as hell, but I did OK. Tomorrow I'm getting my art evaluated by professionals for the first time ever, and it's horrifying, but I'm doing it. What have you done that's scary lately? Link to post Share on other sites
calvincline47 Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 What chances do you take in life aside from asking girls on dates? (Which is the hard part, I know, it's so easy after you do that ) Looking for a job, establishing your career, pursuing your dreams? It takes bravery to do these things, and you build your bravery up by doing these things. It takes dedication, doing new scary things every chance you can - for example, last year I quit my job, bought a new car and started my new career as an Ub3r driver. It was scary as hell, but I did OK. Tomorrow I'm getting my art evaluated by professionals for the first time ever, and it's horrifying, but I'm doing it. What have you done that's scary lately? Personally, I've done a ton of things that most people would consider "scary" and I've been in some sticky situations, to the point where nothing really fazes me anymore. I also have no difficulty asking women out. However, I have significant difficulty finding women that are a combination of desirable and don't play games. I find that most women turn me down and want me to keep pursuing (possibly either as some strange form of passing a test or validation/ego boost....I still haven't figured it out). 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 Wish I could use the social-norm, status-quo, gender role to my advantage Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 By not appearing desperate for one person's approval you are sending a clear message that you have other options, which is good. I disagree, what's wrong with being totally honest and admitting you don't have other options instead of simply spinning a half truth to get someone to believe something which isn't true. To me this amounts to nothing more than manipulation. Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2 Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I disagree, what's wrong with being totally honest and admitting you don't have other options instead of simply spinning a half truth to get someone to believe something which isn't true. To me this amounts to nothing more than manipulation. I think as far as what women are attracted to, honesty ranks considerably below 'guy who is cool enough to have other options besides me.' I think there was a quote by a female character admonishing her nephew in a de Balzac novel: 'a woman will never value you if others don't seem to value you.' Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 The hardest part is to stop saying "Why" and just do it because wondering why won't change it, even if I don't like how it is Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I disagree, what's wrong with being totally honest and admitting you don't have other options instead of simply spinning a half truth to get someone to believe something which isn't true. To me this amounts to nothing more than manipulation. That's logical but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. Women only want what other women want. It's the big reason why man whores are held in such high regard. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) okay, well I know and am aware of how guys are expected to be assertive, as in, it's the guys role to do the pursuing, be the initiator, the long and short of it? approach the girl first and ask her out, take the lead all the time, so how do you do it without coming across as needy or desperate? Basically, if you're a guy (or a gal), you have to be OK being single forever. For instance, I've been on a few dates in the past year, and I don't come across as desperate because I'm looking for a connection and commonality. In my youth, if I didn't have that, I might still try and 'go for it' just to maybe get some action. But I've had sex, I've had girlfriends, so I don't need any notches. I think the way I come across (recently) is someone who actually is curious if a connection is there, not trying to impress her. That said, the reasons you don't have that many options will still be there whether you come off as desperate or not. My pool happens to be really small. Not many women will give me a chance. So, those that do probably don't care how many options I have. Edited May 18, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Basically, if you're a guy (or a gal), you have to be OK being single forever. For instance, I've been on a few dates in the past year, and I don't come across as desperate because I'm looking for a connection and commonality. In my youth, if I didn't have that, I might still try and 'go for it' just to maybe get some action. But I've had sex, I've had girlfriends, so I don't need any notches. I think the way I come across (recently) is someone who actually is curious if a connection is there, not trying to impress her. That said, the reasons you don't have that many options will still be there whether you come off as desperate or not. My pool happens to be really small. Not many women will give me a chance. So, those that do probably don't care how many options I have. I know from personal observation, its far more important for a man to be comfortable and content while single than it is for women Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I know from personal observation, its far more important for a man to be comfortable and content while single than it is for women Women have a number of advantages in the dating game. Best to just accept it and enjoy the things in your life that you enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Women have a number of advantages in the dating game. Best to just accept it and enjoy the things in your life that you enjoy. Yes I know, its just I hate how so many people think we men have it easier, if we did, then we wouldn't be posting on Loveshack Link to post Share on other sites
La.Primavera Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I disagree, what's wrong with being totally honest and admitting you don't have other options instead of simply spinning a half truth to get someone to believe something which isn't true. To me this amounts to nothing more than manipulation. I am not suggesting you should behave that way to get them back, quite the opposite. Once they have blown their chance that is it. It is what you believe that matters. I believe everyone should have standards with how they are treated and should refuse to be seen as desperate and willing to put up with anything just to get another date with someone. There are always other options! It may be harder to find a partner for some but it doesn't mean there isn't a better person out there. It is better to be out there looking for the right person than wasting time on someone who doesn't really care. Everyone deserves a partner that loves and respects them. Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Everyone deserves a partner that loves and respects them. But long before you ever even get a woman to be your 'partner' you have to get her to respect you, like, the first time you even meet. Which can be difficult, especially when first impressions are based largely on exceedingly arbitrary things over which we have no power. Link to post Share on other sites
La.Primavera Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I think as far as what women are attracted to, honesty ranks considerably below 'guy who is cool enough to have other options besides me.' I think there was a quote by a female character admonishing her nephew in a de Balzac novel: 'a woman will never value you if others don't seem to value you.' That is not true. Ask any woman, honesty ranks as one of the highest attributes they find attractive in a man. This is about having your own standards. There are always other options, even if that option is being alone. Link to post Share on other sites
La.Primavera Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 But long before you ever even get a woman to be your 'partner' you have to get her to respect you, like, the first time you even meet. Which can be difficult, especially when first impressions are based largely on exceedingly arbitrary things over which we have no power. You shouldn't have to "get her to respect you", that should go without saying. If you are pursuing a woman who doesn't return your calls, plays mind games or stands you up, you shouldn't waste another second on her. The right woman won't behave like that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 That is not true. Ask any woman, honesty ranks as one of the highest attributes they find attractive in a man. This is about having your own standards. There are always other options, even if that option is being alone. But how they rank it and how things work out in practice don't necessarily jive with each other. You shouldn't have to "get her to respect you", that should go without saying. If you are pursuing a woman who doesn't return your calls, plays mind games or stands you up, you shouldn't waste another second on her. The right woman won't behave like that. Ah, would to God that I could even get to the point of pursuit. One has to meet them and get their number and all that before 'pursuit' even begins, and the 'right girl' has a lot more options than I do in terms of picking which guy she bothers to talk to. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 But long before you ever even get a woman to be your 'partner' you have to get her to respect you, like, the first time you even meet. Which can be difficult, especially when first impressions are based largely on exceedingly arbitrary things over which we have no power. I would say there is a difference between deserving something and being entitled, owed something, they say everyone deserves love, a relationship, but doesn't mean they are entitled or owed one Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 This is something I got from the blog of dating coach, she said that part of the harsh screening process women put men through before strongly considering him a potential boyfriend, is they will subsconsciously "test" a guy to see how needy, desperate, and clingy they will make him: "Unfortunately, most guys emotions DO NOT act in their best interest when it comes to getting a girl (especially when you really like her) You’re emotions cause all kinds of mischief like making you act insecure, needy, clingy, and predictable… All things that MURDER attraction. The reality is that when these “emotions” take over… it’s like it disengages your logical brain. And you start doing all the things you know you SHOULD NOT be doing… - feeling a compulsion to call or text her - Unable to “play it cool” - blurting out your feelings too soon - making yourself too available - showing noticeable jealousy when she mentions other guys - showing too much disappointment when she can’t hang out. Here’s the worse part… She is going to TEST YOU to see how “needy” she can make you… (she does this subconsciously of course) It’s her way of screening out weak guys. She’ll cancel plans and pay close attention to how you react… She’ll “forget” to text you back to see how you handle it… She’ll challenge you on stuff to see how quickly youback down… Here’s a very simple example of a “test”… If you’re listening to a certain type of music that you like she might say… ”Do you like that?” in a tone that expresses that she definitely doesn’t. How do you respond? Do you lie and say “not really”? Or ”It’s OK” If so, you’re TRYING HARDER. And the pendulum of power is tipped in HER favor." Another dating Coach said that women will often play little mind games with a guy, will be flakey at the last minute with him, will be wishy-washy when you ask her to do something, will be like "maybe i'm free, maybe i'm not", will fill out other options. Even ditch out on her. Do little things that will disrespect him. Also to see how assertive he is. She will also test him to see if the guy is really needy, clingy, desperate, the guy will take him at any chance he can get her, clear his schedule and wrap it around hers. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 You’re emotions cause all kinds of mischief like making you act insecure, needy, clingy, and predictable… All things that MURDER attraction. Murder attraction. LMFAO! Link to post Share on other sites
Author BronzeAgeJaeger217 Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Murder attraction. LMFAO! Well duh its the truth Link to post Share on other sites
johndoe2 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Murder attraction. LMFAO! Not just kill it, murder it, premeditated, and bury the remains, haha. 'You’re emotions cause all kinds of mischief like making you act insecure, needy, clingy, and predictable…' Unfortunately I think this is likely fairly true. Despite the purportedly enlightened age we live in, a man's ability to suppress his emotions will probably always be a key train by which he's measured. A female hominid from the neolithic era looking for a mate isn't going to want the guy who cries and emotes a lot; she's going to want the guy who can kill a mountain lion with a stick and carry the carcass 8 miles back to the cave without so much as furrowing his brow. And our brains really haven't changed much in the last 12,000 years. This is all just a solid reminder that we're animals; some species have some not altogether dissimilar methods of vetting their mates from humans. Female kangaroos, for example, will often reserve mating privileges for the male that successfully wins a (or multiple) fight(s) to the death with other male kangaroos. Female kangaroos are also, like female humans, attracted to males with large biceps. But it's all still a competition, same stakes as ever, just a different kind of tournament. Link to post Share on other sites
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