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New member; 25 and never had a gf


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Hello I am a 25 year old Incel(google the term). I have virtually no experience with women, except for a very brief relationship when I was 19.

I was extremely withdrawn as a teenager, but pretty much broke out of my shell at age 19. I began working out religously and approaching people in general, as well as being as open as I can with women. despite this I was constantly rejected, by my own estimate at least 175 times. Thing is at the moment I am not shy whatsoever, but I really lack any motivation to approach women, due to all the rejection I recieved.

 

A little side note, I am Arab American and live in a city in Michigan that is mostly Arab( not by my choice). The fact that I am of Arab descent has virtually nothing to do with my rejections from women, as nearly all my rejections came from Arab women. Arab women, interestingly enough are rarely the sexual prudes they are stereotyped to be. The seek high status men and men with fat wallets, both categories I do not fall in.

 

I believe my major flaw is my looks. One girl who rejected me told me I was a wonderful friend but hideous. I appreciated her honesty and till this day she is still my friend. I am curious to see if there are any other male members in the same shoes as myself

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PegNosePete
Incel(google the term)

OK, I did:

"Involuntary Celibate". A frustrated virgin who feels as if the world owes them sex. A self-described 'incel' is highly likely to blame their virginity on the other 6,999,999,999 people on the planet rather than consider that maybe the problem lies inward.

 

Your problem is your lack of self esteem and confidence.

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PegNosePete

Looks are not inward, they are outward. Like I said your problem is your lack of self esteem and confidence.

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...And you reached that conclusion online? I know plenty of guys who cant get endless women, despite their loathsome personalities, due to their looks. Anyway I'm not here fishing for sympathy. I was merely trying to see if I was the only guy in this situation

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Good point. I have approached white girls... with the same results( rejection).

I approach Arab women for one particular reason: validation. They are strictly forbidden from premarital sex, yet engage in it frequently, with men whom they deem worthy. This fuels my obsessive need for validation from them. It's not so much a racial thing, as Arab women tend to be quite unattractive. It's an ego thing with me.

 

Just out of curiosity, are there other men in the same position I'm in? In their mid 20's and very unsuccessful with women? Logically they should exist, yet it is quite rare to see a man admit he is a loser with women. Society has harsh labels for such men.

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Frank2thepoint

Yes there are plenty of men in their 20s, even 30s, that have visited this site, bellowing the incel mantra of "woe is me". I won't deny that physical looks play a role in the initial attraction between people. But having a good personality does most of the work of sealing the deal beyond attraction. Just from your shadowy picture alone, you are no ugly. What can make you ugly is your personality. If you call yourself an incel, then you will express that through body language and what you say to women. And that is what women find hideous. Work on being positive, add humor to your repertoire, flirt and tease the ladies, and being confident with asking them out. If they say no, oh well, their loss. Also, fine tune your boundaries. Maybe some of the women you keep flirting with are just very superficial.

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Go after girls that you find attractive, not those that you feel will fuel your ego. Once the ego boost wears off, you'll find it hard to maintain any type of relationship with them.

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OP your views on dating/relationships appear to be a skewed if you're seeking validation in the way that you are.

 

If you have to seek validation, you're going to come off as undesirable. There's a reason PUA tactics advise against trying to validate yourself to a Woman.

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Op, if it makes you feel any better I'm almost 28, single, and suck when it comes to women. One thing that helps is dating sites-try Tinder and Okcupid..and keep hitting the gym. Try to go around times there are a lot of younger adults (usually I find around 5-6pm is the best time)..any friends that could hook you up?

 

As for approaching in public-hey, at least you're trying. None of my friends approach women on the street, including myself unless it's a perfect situation..so I give you props. Keep asking them out...it only takes one to say yes.

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I doubt the problem lies with me. Does that sound big headed? I know there are many more men in the same position as myself.

 

It's also important to note that there is ferocious competition for even mildly attractive women. I aim low, yet that yields no results. Why you may ask?

Take you average moderately attractive girl. She will get approached at least several times a day. That adds up to 100 times a month. From her perspective all she must do is choose the best among men who are hitting on her. Clearly I don't meet those standards. There is always some better looking, more muscular, more charismatic, richer etc... you get the point. I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass; I've worked in restaurants for seven years, with hundreds of women. I know how the system works. The bizarre thing is I have met quite a few guys that I am certain are in the same boat as myself. Thing is guys will seldom admit to being unsuccessful with women. There is a MAJOR taboo against it.

 

Looks are incredibly important for initial attraction; meaning if a girl does not find you good looking enough in the first place then your out of luck( unless you can make up for it with money or social status)

 

It is fundamental to note that I am not some basement dwelling loser as many guys whom are unsuccessful with women are stereotyped. I have my own place, own a car, have a job, and am in fairly decent physical condition. Problem is there are guys who exceed these qualities who are hoarding all the women(20/80 rule)

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Mrlonelyone

You are not the first or the last person to come here. You are celibate and you don't want to be anymore but you can't find anyone to break your draught.

 

The 20/80 rule is not true. (That 20% of the guys get/ are attractive to 80% of the women.) The real rule is that women like variety.

 

 

A guy in that 20% might have a girlfriend but that girlfriend will have sex with 80% of his friends. That's the real 20/80 rule. At least when we are talking very young adult women.

 

Fundamentally speaking most women would have sex with every man that caught their eye if there were not serious consequences for it. Especially in the age of birth control.

 

 

I'll bet right now there are one or two women around you who would love to do you but you are so down on yourself you can't see it.

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Since you called yourself incel, I too did as you asked & found the same definition PegNosedPete located.

 

You need to re-read it because it highlights your problem. It's really not anybody else's fault but yours that you can't get a date / get laid.

 

You have to want to change. By the label you have applied to yourself, you don't want to change. You want all of us to pity you & assure you that it's not your fault that you don't have money or an active sex life. We can't do that because we'd be lying to you.

 

Do you know the classic definition of insanity? It's doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results.

 

Here you admit you hit on women who are interested in prestigious men who make a lot of money but you have neither. Sorry but any woman with an agenda is going to get her agenda filled & she is goal oriented. If you can't get her what she wants she wants nothing to do with you. So you need to stop focusing on those woman you can't have or you need to do something to improve your social and financial status.

 

What exactly are you doing to meet women? Are you kind? Do you smile and banter or are you aggressive & come on to her like she owes you something because you are a man & she's "only" a woman? The latter will get you nowhere.

 

Have you told friends and family that you are open to being fixed up? I'm sure your mom, sister, aunts & cousins would love to help you find somebody to date unless of course you only want sex rather than a relationship with a nice young woman. Sex and love can be different goals & most women can spot a guy who only wants to use them for sex a mile away.

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SawtoothMars
I doubt the problem lies with me. Does that sound big headed? I know there are many more men in the same position as myself.

It's also important to note that there is ferocious competition for even mildly attractive women. I aim low, yet that yields no results. Why you may ask?

Take you average moderately attractive girl. She will get approached at least several times a day. That adds up to 100 times a month. From her perspective all she must do is choose the best among men who are hitting on her. Clearly I don't meet those standards. There is always some better looking, more muscular, more charismatic, richer etc... you get the point. I'm not pulling this stuff out of my ass; I've worked in restaurants for seven years, with hundreds of women. I know how the system works. The bizarre thing is I have met quite a few guys that I am certain are in the same boat as myself. Thing is guys will seldom admit to being unsuccessful with women. There is a MAJOR taboo against it.

Looks are incredibly important for initial attraction; meaning if a girl does not find you good looking enough in the first place then your out of luck( unless you can make up for it with money or social status)

It is fundamental to note that I am not some basement dwelling loser as many guys whom are unsuccessful with women are stereotyped. I have my own place, own a car, have a job, and am in fairly decent physical condition. Problem is there are guys who exceed these qualities who are hoarding all the women(20/80 rule)

 

Hey.... if that is a real picture of you, then looks are absolutely not your problem.

 

I'm going to be straight with you. Part of the problem is you have not yet learned how to deal with rejection. Yeah... you are going to get hit with rejection 100 times to one success... but that one success may change your life. Another part of your issue is projecting your feelings onto women. You have to understand that they want to feel special and attractive just as much as you. Learn to use flattery!

 

As for suggestions about changing your targets.... I'm not convinced you are going to have any better luck with white girls in Michigan. My strong bet is that 70-80% will reject you straight out due to racial issues. Besides... the Arab girls I know are excessively pretty!

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I made that perfectly clear I'm not looking for pity. I highly doubt my issue with women is one of race either. I have approached white girls before too. Same result. Most white women are not overtly racist and I really doubt that they will reject me on account of my race.

 

I was just trying to see how many more guys were in the same boat as myself that's all. I've lived a life of hard knocks and don't generally seek sympathy online

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Mrlonelyone
I made that perfectly clear I'm not looking for pity. I highly doubt my issue with women is one of race either. I have approached white girls before too. Same result. Most white women are not overtly racist and I really doubt that they will reject me on account of my race.

I was just trying to see how many more guys were in the same boat as myself that's all. I've lived a life of hard knocks and don't generally seek sympathy online

 

Whether they are racist or not they will have one or two friends who are. Those friends influence on them can make your life hard. Remember young women love social approval. They will "date" a guy who gets them that approval and screw a guy who would not.

 

What you will find is that as a minority in the USA you will be looked at in a sexually objectified and exoticized way by many women. The upside is you will find lots of women wanting sex but not many wanting an rlship.

 

You could stop trying to have a relationship and instead just try to et laid.

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I made that perfectly clear I'm not looking for pity. I highly doubt my issue with women is one of race either. I have approached white girls before too. Same result. Most white women are not overtly racist and I really doubt that they will reject me on account of my race.

 

I was just trying to see how many more guys were in the same boat as myself that's all. I've lived a life of hard knocks and don't generally seek sympathy online

 

Sure, you'll probably find people in the same boat... but I'm not sure what that's going to gain you?

 

Looking for others to reinforce our own ideas is called "Confirmation Bias". It's a sure fire way to distort your view of the world.

 

As others here have pointed out, there'll be a reason you're not getting women and it starts and ends with your attitude.

 

Men way less attractive than you manage to get girlfriends. Men with no jobs, gambling problems and drug addictions get girlfriends.

 

I can assure you, it ain't all down to looks.

 

Or, as a different perspective.

 

If you know what kind of man the women your chasing go for (High Status, Fat wallets), then I guess the answer is... become one of those men.

 

If that doesn't work for you? Then maybe readjust your thinking about the kind of woman you're chasing.

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Hey... You are 25!! That is really not old in my opinion...

I'm not a guy, but due to my own circumstances (school, relocations) I haven't had a bf by 27, I haven't even been dating by then. Now, 3-4 years later I'm getting it all: after a couple of unsuccessful relationships (and many dates) I met a man that I'm truly compatible with, on any level. I'm just sharing this with you to give you some hope that (love) life at 25 is ahead of you.

 

P.S. Just to make it clear: it is a MYTH that all women have swarms of men around them. Just consider the ones that are preoccupied with work in female-dominated jobs/schools - they don't even have the chance to meet men to start with. Maybe you should just change your target group.

 

I made that perfectly clear I'm not looking for pity. I highly doubt my issue with women is one of race either. I have approached white girls before too. Same result. Most white women are not overtly racist and I really doubt that they will reject me on account of my race.

 

I was just trying to see how many more guys were in the same boat as myself that's all. I've lived a life of hard knocks and don't generally seek sympathy online

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Good point. I have approached white girls... with the same results( rejection).

I approach Arab women for one particular reason: validation.

... This fuels my obsessive need for validation from them.

 

You have pretty much self diagnosed your problem right there.

Now go work on fixing that issue you have and things may well improve immensely.

 

Regarding approaching, ladies out there, do you get approached over 100 times a month on average? Just curious.

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Actually I have posted on other sites dedicated to "Incel" and have met many men like myself. I once met a ( Jewish)guy who due to his ugliness, approached and was rejected by 1,000 different women. I think most here know of an "Uncle Fred" or a "cousin Timmy" who despite being heterosexual never seem to be with a significant other. Some of us are left out of the dating game through no fault of our own. I cant help being ugly;I was born that way.

 

Also apparently some members here were referring to the urban dictionary definition of Incel, which I find to be rather insulting. Involuntary celibacy is generally defined as when a guy who despite his efforts is unable to obtain a romantic or sexual relationship. And I certainly don't blame women for my conundrum. They are merely following their biological imperative as outlined by the theory of selective breeding.

 

Keep in mind there are many hidden "Incel's". I have met at least ten from the internet. Were they smelly, video game playing basement dwellers? A few were.

Others included a naval veteran/Oncologist, an school administrator currently in China, a writer, an IT consultant, a loan officer and a businessman

 

I have tried my hardest to get into a relationship, yet was rejected each and every-time. I improved my body, changed my wardrobe, had girls I know set me up on blind dates etc.. to no avail.

 

I am fairly certain that I will always be alone and after much meditation and introspective thinking I have mostly come to peace with that. Truth be told very few women want a guy who never in his mid twenties who dosen't even know how to kiss a girl. It is a major turnoff. I worked with many women over the years and know what they say about guys like me.

 

One final note regarding the 20/80 rule. I define that as 80% of women being attracted to 20% of men. Now I'm not saying the remaining 80% of men cant get a girlfriend. Let me give you an example: if one was to take ten men and ten women and put them in a social setting where the theme was hooking up, do you think they will be evenly distributed? From my experience the answer is a resounding HELL NO! What will happen is usually the two top tier( good looking, wealthy, charismatic, alpha) guys will get the attention of most of the women and the remaining guys will be lucky if the girls even look their way. At least two of those guys will get no women. I've been in these scenario's so often I would bet my life that would be the case. Men will usually fall into four categories: 1) top tier guys. those guys can pretty much attract most women effortlessly 2) Mid tier guys. Those guys get girlfriends but often struggle. 3) Bottom tier guys. Those guys struggle to obtain any girl yet may succeed at times 4) Omega guys. Like yours truly, these guys get no women nor do they ever receive any indication of interest from women. Typically these men will live lives of agonizing loneliness and usually never know the touch of a women.

 

One final note as people here keep bringing up the race issue. The fifteen or twenty white women I approached did not reject me on account of me being Arab. I'm not some bearded Saudi Bin Laden look alike damn it. I am very well assimilated, having been born in this magnificent country. Reminds me of a hilarious story that happened to me. Some old guy from Alabama looks at me and says loudly" do you speak English?" I replied to him " My dear sir I teach English at an Advanced level"

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You still haven't discussed what you are doing to meet women. I highly doubt you will find any on some Incel website.

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I've given up. However in the past I have tried meeting women through school, work, social circles, online, blind dates, clubs, bars, parties, cold approach etc...

 

Example: I met a girl who was an ethical vegetarian just like me. Also like me she was into vintage films. I thought we had a good thing going and asked er out. She initially agreed until until she got swept off her feet by this very handsome guy who notorious for basically pumping and dumping. And that is exactly what he did to her. I got to here the marvelous stories of what a great lover he was to her too! It would be so funny if it was not so sad:)

 

To quote Ernst Borgnine's character from his 1955 film Marty," I don't know ma but whatever it is that women want I don't have!" In this case I'm sure it's my looks.

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I won't deny that physical looks play a role in the initial attraction between people. But having a good personality does most of the work of sealing the deal beyond attraction.

 

 

I used to believe this but to me it amounts to nothing more than fiction, as someone in the similar position to the opening poster, I can comprehensively personality counts for absolutely nothing, nor does being a nice guy or being a well mannered gentleman.

 

 

No, all that seems to count is the size of ones wallet and the appeal of ones looks.

 

 

Sad but I have yet to see any instance where the above doesn't apply.

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Truth be told very few women want a guy who never in his mid twenties who dosen't even know how to kiss a girl. It is a major turnoff.

 

+1, as proven by another thread here.

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