Tayken Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Having been round the block once, there are lessons learned and as the saying goes, "fool me once shame on me", but "fool me twice, shame on you" I think any higher any man or woman, will be STUPID to go in blind without having some kind of pre-nup / co-habitation agreement in place. I have a 22-page drawn up already for any future Mrs Tayken.... Unmarried couples who are living together have the option of creating a number of legal documents (often called “cohabitation agreements”) that can help protect their rights as a couple, while at the same time safeguarding their individual interests and assets. Since unmarried couples who live together may one day split up, especially outside of the legal bonds and social institution of marriage, it makes sense to plan ahead in order to avoid future conflicts. This sub-section includes information about when you might need a cohabitation agreement; what it can do for you; the different ways they can be drafted; and related matters such as wills and durable power of attorney. - See more at: Cohabitation Agreements - FindLaw ]Unmarried couples who are living together have the option of creating a number of legal documents (often called “cohabitation agreements”) that can help protect their rights as a couple, while at the same time safeguarding their individual interests and assets. Since unmarried couples who live together may one day split up, especially outside of the legal bonds and social institution of marriage, it makes sense to plan ahead in order to avoid future conflicts. This sub-section includes information about when you might need a cohabitation agreement; what it can do for you; the different ways they can be drafted; and related matters such as wills and durable power of attorney. - See more at: Cohabitation Agreements - FindLaw Unmarried couples who are living together have the option of creating a number of legal documents (often called “cohabitation agreements”) that can help protect their rights as a couple, while at the same time safeguarding their individual interests and assets. Since unmarried couples who live together may one day split up, especially outside of the legal bonds and social institution of marriage, it makes sense to plan ahead in order to avoid future conflicts. This sub-section includes information about when you might need a cohabitation agreement; what it can do for you; the different ways they can be drafted; and related matters such as wills and durable power of attorney. - See more at: Cohabitation Agreements - FindLaw As you can see from the rest of this website, the law relating to common law relationships in Canada is a mess. For instance, property division often relies on a legally complex and expensive claim for unjust enrichment. You may want to avoid this, and share property equally as if you were married. Or not share property at all. The point is that getting a cohabitation agreement allows you and your partner to define what you believe is fair, rather than relying on what the government thinks is fair. Some of the different themes I’ve seen in couples who want cohabitation agreements: * they want certainty and to avoid legal disputes * they want to ensure that the mother doesn’t suffer financially for taking time off work to raise the children * they want to ensure that one partner’s family business stays in the family * they want to ensure that children from a previous relationship, rather than a new partner, get their assets * they want to ensure that the financially less secure partner is protected * they want to communicate their wishes and expectations for the relationship ideally you want to enter into a cohabitation agreement before moving in together or before having children together. Obviously, that’s not always possible. However, you can enter into a cohabitation agreement any time you want, even if you are already living together or have children together. What Can and Can’t Be in a Cohabitation Agreement? Neither child custody and access (visitation) nor child support can be dealt with in a cohabitation agreement. The thinking behind this is that a court always has to do what is in the best interests of a child, regardless of any agreement. As well, Canadian courts generally won’t enforce moral type clauses such as penalties for adultery. The two big things normally dealt with in a Canadian cohabitation agreement are property division and spousal support. As for spousal support, typical types of provisions are for lump sum spousal support, no spousal support at all, or a sliding scale of spousal support that increases the longer the relationship lasts. As for property, typical types of provisions are for no property division (each party keeps what is in their own name), provisions dealing with how the matrimonial home is to be dealt with, provisions emulating how property is divided by married couples, and provisions excluding specific assets, such as a business or cottage, from being divided. Sometimes cohabitation agreements set out different results if the relationship ends via separation rather than via death. SOURCE Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't think a cohabitation agreement is necessary. I think a 22 page one is ridiculous. My marital prenup covering real estate & assets isn't that long. People planning to live together need to talk about issues before moving in & signing a lease. How will you handle chores & grocery shopping? Who will pay the bills -- 2 checks, 1 person writing & the other paying back etc. As long as you don't co-mingle the money or make expensive joint purchases, its all easy to split apart at the end. No documentation required. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't think a cohabitation agreement is necessary. I think a 22 page one is ridiculous. My marital prenup covering real estate & assets isn't that long. People planning to live together need to talk about issues before moving in & signing a lease. How will you handle chores & grocery shopping? Who will pay the bills -- 2 checks, 1 person writing & the other paying back etc. As long as you don't co-mingle the money or make expensive joint purchases, its all easy to split apart at the end. No documentation required. OK...May I exaggerated, once you take away the cover page, definitions and foot notes....it shrinks down to about 12-10 pages. It will see you and I are on the same wavelength though Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Seems to me it would be easier to get married. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iris219 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Maybe I should get one that says I get half of everything if we breakup, just like I would if we were married. Both people often benefit financially by co-habitating. Before we lived together, my fiancé and I paid a lot more each month to live. We have separate accounts and won't make large joint purchases until we're married. As far as household stuff, I don't care because I'm not petty and things are replaceable. I lived with someone for 4 years and left with almost no household stuff because I didn't want it. My fiancé can keep any dishes or furniture we purchased together if we break up. I'll walk away with what I came in with or less. No agreement is needed and one that broke down random items would be dumb anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Protect Yourself...How many have co-habitation agreement in mind? I'll never have one simply because I'll never 'cohabit', and have never 'cohabited', with anyone I wasn't married to. However, with apparently fewer people getting married in favor of cohabitation, or cohabiting prior to marriage, perhaps your assertion has some merit, especially for those who have life work and accomplishments to protect and/or address. As an example, if someone is 'living with' someone else and they purchase a house, their contributions and/or ownership interests should be addressed. Same if one cohabitant contributes materially to the success of the other in business or profession, as example providing for home and hearth while the other person invests in education and/or business. For two average worker bees who earn a paycheck, spend it, share a lease and BBQ on the weekend and generally live life for today, I would opine such agreements would be unnecessarily onerous and expensive. It all depends. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 (edited) Maybe I should get one that says I get half of everything if we breakup, just like I would if we were married. Both people often benefit financially by co-habitating. Before we lived together, my fiancé and I paid a lot more each month to live. We have separate accounts and won't make large joint purchases until we're married. As far as household stuff, I don't care because I'm not petty and things are replaceable. I lived with someone for 4 years and left with almost no household stuff because I didn't want it. My fiancé can keep any dishes or furniture we purchased together if we break up. I'll walk away with what I came in with or less. No agreement is needed and one that broke down random items would be dumb anyway. Yes...you will be surprised at how many men and women have heard that one before...and yes some of us just walk away from the fluff and only concentrate on what is important i.e child You might think it's "dumb", but am sure you know of couple that are fighting stuff out in court as we speak, and it has been going on for years. The truth is breakups turn people into MONSTERS, and once the emotions kick in and outside influence like bad friends...things get nasty For two average worker bees who earn a paycheck, spend it, share a lease and BBQ on the weekend and generally live life for today, I would opine such agreements would be unnecessarily onerous and expensive. True...it's more for the highest earner than two people on minimum wage. Disparity in income this side of the pond is an automatic entitlement to spousal support. So if you are on 6 figures and you partner is on minimum wage for some odd reason (cos you were in love), then it will cost you indefinitely depending on duration of common law / marriage Edited February 23, 2014 by Tayken Link to post Share on other sites
aussietigerwolf Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 so... if you found a girl that you wanted to move in with you then you'd hand her a 22 page legal document first? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Presuming the OP has engaged competent legal counsel, or is a lawyer himself, to draw up a 22 page cohabitation contract, I'd certainly hope he'd use it, since he invested time and/or money into it. IME, and I do have experience with contracts, such a contract is more effectively drafted according to the particulars of a unique association. No way would I spend 350per on a generic contract and pay again to dial it into the specifics of a particular partnership. To me, such would be like creating a prenup when there are no nuptials on the horizon. Waste of time/money. Regarding complexity, I've perused reams of legal documents to make a simple, though court adjudicated, trustee change. One 'partnership' redefined, though seemingly simple on the surface, can be extraordinarily complex legally. I won't even go into our divorce decree. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 so... if you found a girl that you wanted to move in with you then you'd hand her a 22 page legal document first? That is just it...am not into girls, women more like...and am not currently looking for the latter. Don't be silly...."the document" only comes out after certain things have been taken care of.....if you know what I mean See my other thread for RED FLAGS.....if the woman passes the "red flag" test i.e. phase 1, then we move to phase deux Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Wait, wait, wait... You're missing the relationship agreement that comes before that! Maybe a child support waiver document too, before the two of you have sex for the first time? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Not really because am not going to get into LTR with somebody with kids at my age. Additionally, I gave myself a Xmas gift that prevents me from having more kids Wait, wait, wait... You're missing the relationship agreement that comes before that! Maybe a child support waiver document too, before the two of you have sex for the first time? Link to post Share on other sites
darkmoon Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) if love goes sour, I read somewhere that the guy can claim off the woman if she gets successful - even if they have already split up they might have been broke and in love at one time, and then the fan gets hit Edited February 24, 2014 by darkmoon Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If you aren't going to get into another relationship, why the cohabitation agreement or are you just worked up wanting to rant? Be careful, soon you will sound like treehouse. All will be well if you just stay away from women, try dating men since they are so sweet and innocent....worth a shot so you won't be lonely and they take nothing in a breakup according to LS men. I think there is a truth to this. Sometimes I see people who have great mistrust and anger towards the opposite gender, and I think, why don't they try exploring relationships with their own gender? It seems to be easier for some people to comprehend and trust someone of their own sex, due to socialization and long-held beliefs about gender. If they can develop relationship-type feelings towards their own gender, they'd probably be happier, ultimately. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Badsingularity Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 If they can develop relationship-type feelings towards their own gender, they'd probably be happier, ultimately. Or they could do their best to put themselves in the shoes of the other gender and try to see things from their perspective and understand their reality which is usually much different then their own. If more men and women did this there would be many more happy relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Sure, but some people aren't willing or capable of doing that, don't see the problem clearly, or their beliefs about "the way women are" or "the way men are" are too powerful. I've seen that here many times. The path of least resistance may be to accept that one has very negative feelings towards the opposite gender that aren't going anywhere, and more fully explore relationships with their own. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 If you aren't going to get into another relationship, why the cohabitation agreement or are you just worked up wanting to rant? Be careful, soon you will sound like treehouse. All will be well if you just stay away from women, try dating men since they are so sweet and innocent....worth a shot so you won't be lonely and they take nothing in a breakup according to LS men. Who said I wasn't going to get into another relationship.....have you been following my threads? How does a woman with kids, equate to a woman with grown kids / doesn't want kids? Am guessing you are currently involved in what you just proposed then? Link to post Share on other sites
TheBladeRunner Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Good point Tayken, IF......and I mean IF I were to even live with someone I would do the same (some sort of WRITTEN agreement). Twice to the divorce rodeo and twice it has been financially devastating. I think an agreement is a good idea, the way I feel money and property should not be an issue with either party at my age....mid-forties. Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 And, after dating a few people of their own gender, they would find out the truth- one gender doesn't have a monopoly on arseholes. They are everywhere and in each gender. Yeah, probably, but at least they won't say, "all men are [insert negative stereotypes]" because they'd be saying that about themselves too. It would allow them to be more generous in the sense of seeing prospective partners as individuals rather than this mass of despicable and untrustworthy beings. I really do believe that this is a viable alternative for men who distrust and dislike women (really, not being facetious), but they have to open themselves up to it. One problem I think is that if it's a general, barely conscious hatred of the feminine, then homosexuality veers into that territory, so it may be hard to open oneself to that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Although they might not admit it (doesn't really matter cos someone of us know), getting married / divorce has become an easy cash cow mostly for those women that have decided to make nothing of their lives......i.e. dropped out of school, ran off with an older guy, drugs, just doing odd jobs and decision to just have multiple kids The sad from all this.....these women raise their kids to be just like them, so the cycle sort of continues. You can only live on child support and spousal support for so long...at some point reality will set it. Someone posted a thread here along the lines of....what is the problem that men have with women with kids when it comes to OLD? Right off the bat, if a woman has primary custody of the kid(s), I'll say that should be ringing bells in your ears..... and urging you to find out more about the situation before you get involved with this person. Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I thought about this long and hard before I let my girlfriend move in with me. I don't have any documents but I'm very familiar with the laws now and having a cousin that is a family court lawyer doesn't hurt! Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Not really because am not going to get into LTR with somebody with kids at my age. Additionally, I gave myself a Xmas gift that prevents me from having more kids Vasectomies are not 100%. Best be sure... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tayken Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Vasectomies are not 100%. Best be sure... I am aware of that thank you...hence the reason I have appointment for follow ups I thought about this long and hard before I let my girlfriend move in with me. I don't have any documents but I'm very familiar with the laws now and having a cousin that is a family court lawyer doesn't hurt! So obviously you know where I am coming from...ignorance is bliss if you leave yourself wide open. Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So obviously you know where I am coming from...ignorance is bliss if you leave yourself wide open. Yes. I agree with your general point and have seen several guys lives ruined because of greedy women. Having said that, handing a girl a multi page document isn't the way I'd go about it... I would imagine that'd be a big turn off. Just be really informed of the laws in your country and watch for signs you're with a user. Link to post Share on other sites
man_in_the_box Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 I have a 22-page drawn up already for any future Mrs Tayken.... Well, good luck with the gold diggers dude. Link to post Share on other sites
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