Friendship got weird and I want it normal again

[jb38]

I wasn't sure if maybe this should go into the friends and lovers forum, but since I'm hoping for just friendship, I'll post here.

 

Anyhow, there is this girl that I've known for about one year. She's truly beautiful, and I thought that she was extremely cute when I fist met her. To make things even better, it's almost like she doesn't realize just how cute she really is...She's not at all b**chy like a lot of girls like her would be.

 

But I found out quickly that she had a boyfriend. I've met him and he's a standup guy. They're perfect for each other, have been dating for almost 4 years now, and I hope that they end up getting married one day. I think they will.

 

I've always, I guess when it comes down to it, felt at least somewhat attracted to her, but I ignore it and move on. There are other girls who I like at least almost as much, who are actually available. It bothers me that sometimes I will have a thought like "hopefully they break up" or something stupid like that, because I don't want that to happen and, even if it did, (1) who knows if it would help me? and (2) I would probably find myself less attracted to her. There's something about a girl being in a loving relationship that I think is adorable (and would never want to mess up...)

 

Now onto the real problem... Lately things have gotten weird between us.

We've always been good friends, she's called me her favorite guy (friend) and whatnot multiple times. I've been really careful to respect her relationship. I don't dance with her. I try not to do more physically than give her a hug hello and goodbye (which I give everyone). The other thing that I always feel terribly guilty about is she will sometimes fish for compliments while drunk and I am completely afraid of saying something too affectionate so I end up insulting her. She's always just laughed it off. Lately, she's been taking everything I say/feel waaaaay too seriously. Once someone asked if we were friends and I jokingly said "no, we hate each other" then smiled and winked at her. She flipped, saying she thought we were great friends, etc. If I say something critical, she gets really upset. Then, recently, she criticized me (she called me scrawny) and I acted a little offended--it does bother me when people call me scrawny--and she freaked. She apologized like 15 times to me, and even went and got 3 friends to come and apologize to me (we were drunk, if that is significant...).

 

I don't know what to do! It makes me SOOO uncomfortable that she cares about what I say/feel so much... I talked to my best friend about this, and he had talked to her about this. She had told him about what she had done, and said that she just thought of me as "a great friend" or something like that. He then accused me of wanting her, said it was reasonable--its pretty much impossible to be friends with her without that happening--but then said it was time to move on. And he's right. But then he made some comments that made me even more uncomfortable than I was before. He said that he knew it was hard because (1) if she didn't have a boyfriend "she's the type of girl who would totally go out with" me and (2) normally he wouldn't have any problem with what was happening, but that her boyfriend is a great guy and to think of him. Those comments lead me to believe that maybe she said something that I really hope that she wouldn't say. That is, I hope she doesn't feel anything towards me. And I hope she knows that I would never EVER want to do anything to harm her relationship. I'm used to sorta falling for girls who I can't have, but I move on, and would never, ever, EVER, do ANYTHING.

 

Also, last time I saw her, I was completely hammered and said "we need to talk about something." She left before we could talk and I sent her a message like "why'd you leave? we needed to talk..." She was like, "tomorrow after 5?" I was too drunk to reply and still haven't responded. This was a few days ago... I really had no intention of saying more than telling her that she was making me uncomfortable. And I'm guessing she realized what she was doing too...IDK. In any case, I still haven't met with her and need advice on what to do...

Does anyone have a take on the situation? What should I do? Right now, I'm thinking that it might be best just to avoid her as much as possible, but she will be weirded out by that, since we're friends.

 

Thanks a lot!

[WTRanger]

Wait just a second here. You told her you and her needed to talk. She asked if the next day at 5 was good. You never went through on it. What the hell is your problem here? You want to talk to her, you want things normal, yet you chicken out when it comes to actually talking to her.

 

Does this make any sense to you? Because it makes no sense to me. My advice. TALK TO HER!! We're not mind readers.

[jb38]

I did say we needed to talk, but then (and this might sound hard to believe) my phone died so I couldn't respond to her.

 

I am really worried about what to say. I just want us to be normal friends...That's all...And maybe thats what she sees what we have now as, but I don't feel okay about it...

[xpaperxcutx]

What exactly do you want to talk to her about? Do you want to talk to her about the awkwardness? Then you would have to tell her how you feel about her and she would be even more weirded out.

 

I actually would advise against any conversations that involve you asking her why she acts the way she does. Have you noticed that the both of you seem to play with each other's emotions when you're both drunk? Alcohol can impair your senses, and at least in your case, made the both of you act more than what you would call friendship behaviour.

 

You obviously like her but I admire your integrity in respecting her relationship. However, if you feel like your feelings for her (because of how she sometimes treats you) are making things awkward, then be the better person and step back for a bit. Give yourself space to renew your perspective and the values of this friendship. Sometimes you can't control other people's feelings but you can control your own.

 

And the answer is yes you can make things normal again, but that would mean that you've finally came to terms with your feelings and know that you can only like her as a friend and nothing else. Otherwise, if you continue to hang out with her with a black cloud over your head, eventually not only will you end up emotionally hurt, but the friendship may shatter as well.

[jb38]

Thank you so much for your reply xpaperxcutx. I think that that your advice is exactly what I needed.

 

It does seem prudent that I step away from the situation for a bit. Even though intellectually and in my heart I know that I only want friendship, I can still get my feelings mixed up. Spending time away from her might help me get get my feelings back in check and I don't know what's going on in her head, but hopefully she gets everything sorted out, too.

 

Thanks again!

[jb38]

One more question though--

What if she asks me something like are you avoiding me or what's going on? then what?

Thanks!

[carhill]

I responded in your crosspost but, if she does contact you, merely say you want to get your head straight and try to drink less. Since most of your interactions appear to revolve around drinking (your words), perhaps that is the core issue.

[jb38]

Thanks carhill! Drinking less should help a lot; at minimum in the way we interact. Part of the problem, I think, is that in general one of us is waaaaay more sober than the other (and it alternates which one of us is which), which makes it hard to talk about anything. When we are both sober, we act just as I'd like us to act. What terrifies me is that I always knew in the back of my head that I liked her, but I was able to ignore it and let this problem get so big. I should have just stayed away, I think now.

 

Also--I'm SO embarrassed. I don't know what she knows about how I feel or even what she feels herself, but I'm almost afraid to talk to her again (I didn't even do anything really that stupid, just said we needed to talk).

[carhill]

What will likely happen is she will be (or is now) angry at you because she came to rely upon you as a intellectual and emotional validation and your silence (or expressing your 'feelings') disrupts that energy flow for her. Disrupt a woman's 'force' at your own risk.

[jb38]

disrupt a woman's "force"? what do you mean?

 

i'm not really worried about her getting angry; though, i think that would be better than how she might react. like me, she doesn't really get "angry" just "upset"/"embarrassed"/etc. you can tell she's genuine, because one look at her face will tell you her emotion more clearly than anything else. once someone suggested that such-and-such might have a little crush on her, and I thought she was going to die of embarrassment.

 

in any case, do you have advice on how to make her not "rely upon me" as "intellectual and emotional validation"? i've tried so hard to avoid that, if it's happened...i have pretty much treated her like any one of my other girl friends, i've just worked extra hard to avoid being too complimentary, etc. which seems to have maybe backfired.

 

i still can't even begin to understand how she could be stressed about what i think,about everything i say about her, and about everything she says to me. it makes no sense to me.

 

all i know is that once i she started doing it, i started doing the same thing, which led me to become very attracted to her, which is how i know that i have to change something.

[carhill]

disrupt a woman's "force"? what do you mean?

 

A woman creates an aura (force) around her where men are concerned, generally based in the knowledge from a young age of how to manipulate men (daddy was the first) with her femininity. She uses this aura to get what she wants. When I speak of disrupting the force, what I mean is your independent behavior serves to contaminate the purity and consistency of what she wants and has been getting from you, and this frustrates her. It's a glitch in the female version of the Cheer's effect (Norm walks in and, on cue, everyone goes "Norm!").

 

IMO, she wants you as what we call here a backup boyfriend, meaning to validate certain areas of her ego. The vacillation in her responses underscores this. She's playing the same 'you don't have me' game as she would with a boyfriend, except there's no sex.

 

Tell me, what does she think of your parents? Tell me about the last interaction she and they had. It's normal for friends (best friends especially) to know each other's families. How interested is she in your world, pursuits and family life? Besides drinking, what interests do you share? Friendships are based to a degree in shared interests, since such fuels discourse and interaction. As an example, in my past, some of my female friends have shared interests like auto racing (as drivers), camping, traveling, bicycling, horticulture, animals (like at a zoo), etc. These interactions built the friendships.

 

Anyway, back to the Open. Looks like Venus is uncharacteristically behind in the final set.....abnormal

[jb38]

I've tried to avoid talking about my family, when possible, because I'm a bit of a momma's boy, and I'm trying to move away from that. But she knows my parents' and sister's names, which is more than I can say about her family. Because of the context in which I know her, I've never met her family and she's never met mine. I know about whatever few issues are happening in her family, and she knows all that I would want her to know about mine.

 

We both speak the same foreign language and we met abroad--which leads to a lot of shared experiences and emotions. That is by far the biggest thing. The thing is, I don't really have that many "hobbies"--I play some sports recreationally, but only with guys, really. Mostly all I do with any of my friends is talk about stuff--life, politics, school--and we "party" together. I have one friend who I lift with another who I golf with but that is really all. I'm passionate about everything that I study. She doesn't really play sports anymore, or play an instrument, etc. But with this girl, most of our interactions come: (1) when we are studying together, (2) when we have reunions of our abroad group--which always includes alcohol--and (3) when we are out partying--we have mutual friends. We usually just talk a lot. I have never thought that much of it. I avoid being completely alone with her and thats it. She initiates a good amount of physical contact if she is drinking, but I have tried to ignore that.

 

I don't understand how I could end up in the position of "2nd boyfriend" when I've been trying SO hard to avoid that. I don't validate her every time I have the opportunity (though I easily could). She used to say all the time things about how she was jealous of me for how good I was at this or that, which I didn't like, but now it's moved on to her freaking out about everything I say/do. I can't take that and I need it to stop. As much as I may like her (and I liked her more before this happened), I want nothing to do with her relationship.

 

What should I do in the future to avoid this?

[carhill]

"We're not a couple. You have a boyfriend. I'm confused about the state of our friendship. What do you think?"

 

Compare the answer to her past actions and accept the result.

[jb38]

Are you suggesting that I actually use that line on her and see what she says?

 

This girl is innocent. To the point that it is unbearable. She's gorgeous, but doesn't realize it. She's only had one boyfriend ever (and their relationship started in high school). I'm not sure that she fully grasps what she can do to guys. She's the type of girl that guys accidentally dream about (and I don't even mean in a sexual fashion) then feel terribly guilty about it.

 

The thing is, I do just want to be friends with her. That is it. I'm horrified that she has thought of this friendship as something that she needs to analyze with her friends and my friends. Even if she doesn't want anything (which is what I'm hoping and am going to assume), if I were her boyfriend I would still be uncomfortable with what is going on. period. And that's a lot of why I feel so guilty.

[carhill]

OP, where's your dad? OK, I'll play him...

 

"Son, those words aren't a 'line', they're honest communication. To have healthy interpersonal relationships, you communicate; you don't use 'lines'"

 

"Son, can you see how you've put this girl on a pedestal? How you've made her perfect in every way? Tell me, when you dream about her, do you imagine her sitting on the toilet grunting as she takes a shyte and wipes her ass? Changing her tampon during her period? Smelling like dead fish a few days of the month? Here, let me get your mother and she'll tell you of the realities of who women are" ..... motions to mom

 

Get it?

[jb38]

Touché carhill, touché.

 

I would like to say a couple things about your second point though. First of all, I've dreamed about many women (literally), but never her. I have blocked out all sexual thoughts regarding her. That might sound impossible, but so far it's worked. I do realize that this girl is human. She poops, farts, and has a period. Unlike a lot of girls, she freely admits when she has to do any of these things. I've reminded myself a few times of these things to make myself less interested; it didn't work.

 

I think that a lot of my problem right now is that I have no idea what I want. Last week alone, there were 2 girls that I nearly asked out and another 2 who I don't think are interested in me, but who I think are really cute nonetheless. But now I know better than to befriend those in the second category. That would just create trouble.

 

Then there's this girl. I want her as a friend. She is all of the things that I listed, but I know that she's not perfect. She's way too perfectionistic for me. She's not religious. And she, like me, ended up in the awkward position (whether she knows it or not). Mostly I'm bad at seeing the bad in anyone....And there are other girls who have characteristics that she lacks. Like similar/stronger academic interests and a more nurturing personality. I just don't know what I want.

 

I do know though that she is a great person and if I can be friends with her even after a few weeks away that that is what I want. But if I'm going to end up in a position where she starts acting like this around me again, I don't want that, at all. I can, when a girl treats me normally, keep my emotions in check.

[carhill]

"Son, go for what you want. Failure is a part of life. You will fail many times in your life. You will succeed many times in your life. Do you know that neither will happen if you don't try? The value is in the effort, not the achievement."

 

The key is controlling *you*, since you cannot in any way, shape or form control how other people (girls, here) treat you.

 

IMO, it's odd to have never dreamed about someone who has such an impact on your life. It doesn't have to be sexual dreaming. As some of your feelings, even if not romantic, are unrequited, there should be stuff going on at the subconscious level. The only possibility I can think of is that you spend so much conscious time with her on your mind that you process everything in that state.

 

Tell me, even though this is a 'friend', is she there with you all the time? Not physically, but just 'there'. Such connections don't have to be romantic, a key component I was not cognizant of decades ago. Hope you do better than I

[jb38]

Mostly I don't dream. While awake I think of her a lot, but try not to. It wasn't so bad even like 2 weeks ago, but lately she's been getting more time than she should (at first because I had a crush on her and now because I realize how stupid that was and that it can never work). So I do, I guess, think of her a lot. She makes me happy (even as just a friend); we have a lot of shared stories; etc.

 

The other thing I'm beginning to realize is that she controls me, but she doesn't know how. When she treats me like this, I freak. Otherwise, we can just be friends. And its up to her. Though I'm going to try to take more control of my emotions now.