You think I'd learn!!!!

January 22, 2001

Hi peoples...

Well I was about to give up on the Internet Personals...was going to delete my ad and take a good long break........but then this seemingly normal/decent guy responded to it.

We emailed for a bit, chatted on ICQ....ended up talking on the phone. Seemed rather nice, 'together', decent job, independent, etc. Then a quarter of the way through our conversation, he seemed really distracted.......I could hear his ICQ msg thing going off in the background...could hear his "you've got mail" thing going off.....could hear him typing away. I'd say something, you could hear him typing...then 30 seconds later he'd respond, but you could tell he hadn't been listening.

He's 35.

So last night I was doing some work online, and he msg's me on ICQ. We chit-chat a bit, I ask him what he's doing..he says he's in a chat room. (I have NO use for chat rooms..BORING). I asked him which one? He was in an ADULT chat room..."men with pics of their -----" He said him and his online friends go in there to have a laugh. ?????? He told me to check it out....so I did. GEEZUS....whatta buncha morons. People being crude, calling people sluts, nothing but people looking for cybersex...totally stupid! I asked him WHY he and his friends would go to such a place? He said he goes there just to read. Okayyyyy. He says it's just something he does "Sunday nights for a laugh." Judging by the language and behavior in this place, I'm willing to guess that most of the people in there were very young.

What the hell kind of grown man would invite a propespective date into a place like this and talk about how fun and entertaining it is..and that it's something he does on a regular basis. SO much for normal LOL Oh, and he reassured me that he didn't 'have cyber'. WEIRD!!!!!! He said his last long term relationship was many years ago, because he's shy. I think he's just freaking weird.

*sigh*

Laurynn

January 22, 2001

laurynn, he sounds like a real screwball, what is he doing in chat rooms at 35? Then again, i dont know what age men really do mature.

Did you get my email? I sent it to you last night.

Well ill talk to you later.

strawberry

January 22, 2001

Yes, a screwball indeed.

I just emailed you back...have a peek.

Laurynn :-)

January 23, 2001

Frankly I prefer the ICQ chatroom where we discuss the mathematical formulas for measuring the volume of each other's genitalia. Given your medical background, you might find it more intellectually stimulating than just viewing pictures.

January 23, 2001

What kind of device does one use to measure the volume of their mammaries, Tony...do ya know? *LOL* Hopefully JustAGirl is reading this, she can ask her attentive boyfriend and I'll no longer be in the dark :-)

Speaking of ICQ, weirdo-dude is on ICQ now.....asking *why* I skipped out on him last night. I'm gently telling him that I think he's on a different wavelength (planet?) than myself. It's awfully quiet now. No response LOL

Laurynn

January 16, 2002

Yes folks, it's the Queen of Stupidity here (again).

For those who don't have a clue what situation I'm referring to, I've posted over the past few days (not too far down the board) about "more" goings-on with the guy I've been dating.

For those who've followed this truly pathetic saga (mostly pathetic on my part because I can't stick to my guns and put an end to the insanity), here's a little recap and what's currently taking place.

So Sunday night we talk on the phone....for over 2 hours. Regardless of all that's said, he does tell me that I'm a "cool chick" and that he's not ready to thrown in the towel yet, though he's tentative and has some doubts that things between us will work out. Based on a lot of what was said during that conversation, it was quite apparent that he's not able to see things from my point of view at all, he SUDDENLY (perhaps) has different ideas about what he's looking for in a relationship and IF I want this to work, basically I'd have to do all the changing, cuz he don't change, he is the way he is, period. Uh huh.

Midway through our conversation, I asked if he felt like some company (I'd go visit him)..he was quite upfront in telling me that he just felt like being alone.....that he'd spent all day thinking about "our stuff" and that he just needed some time to process it all and 'put it away'.... Of course this made me feel uncomfortable because usually when a couple goes through a bad patch, a few hugs and some time FACE TO FACE helps to make both parties feel more assured about things.

So Monday night he has a class to go to. He calls me at 9:45pm. I wasn't home. I made it a point of not being home. I figured if he couldn't call me all day, I wasn't going to be sitting at home waiting by the phone. Stupid move on my part, I guess, cuz today (err, Tuesday) I felt really guilty.... so around 11:30am, I called him on his cell. Well, no answer (gee, cuz he always has the ringer turned off or what?)...tried an hour later. No answer. You'd think he'd answer at lunch time. Called the last time at 1:20pm.....still no answer.

Of course at this point, all kinds of thoughts are running through my head. The 'topics' of the weekend resurface (the note I'd found that was written by a recent ex, the fact that she'd be back from her trip around now, was he ignoring me cuz he was with her?....)

Finally around 2pm he calls. Not overly friendly. Now this is a really slow time of year in the industry he's in. So since I've met him, and because he's a "boss" there, he pretty much sets his own hours and comes and goes as he pleases... Well....he starts telling me that he's having a really busy day...that he'll be there til 5 or 5:30pm..that he was "thinking" of coming to see me after work/before the Hockey game he was going to......wasn't sure if he was going to the game. Said he'd call me as he left work to let me know.

Well....6:30 the phone rings. He matter of factly tells me that he's on his way to the game. Geez, thanks for telling me at the last minute (I'd been cleaning the house, running around doing my hair and getting all dolled up...apparently all for freakin' nothing). He then tells me rather straightforwardly that he's got to be at work at 8am..that he's got an "all day meeting" (uh huh)....the first thing that runs through my mind as he tells me this is:

1) he's covering ass so that if I call his cell tomorrow, he won't answer because he's apparently in an "all day meeting" (uh huh)

2) he needs his beauty sleep cuz he has to be up early (that's early for him) so that means he'll have to go straight home from the game to get to sleep, meaning he can't see me.

By now, my heart is in my throat and my gut is telling me that I'm getting blown off here......this is a guy who, up until a few days ago, made sure to see me almost every day..he couldn't stay away....now wild horses can't seem to bring him here. I ask him if he's blowing me off.......that if he doesn't want to see me anymore, to just have the balls and tell me, but not to string me along and avoid me and have a million excuses. He says to me,

"no, if it was over I'd just tell you, I wouldn't drag it out."

I told him that the "timing" of his sudden busy-ness is peculiar...it's a few days after our difficult weekend. He says it's just the way things are...and that Wednesday night (tonight), he wont' see me either cuz he has his weekly pool league to go to, which goes til 10 so he'll just go straight home (yeah, right). So I say, "oh, well maybe you can pencil me in for Thursday, cuz you have your kids from Friday night til Monday morning so I won't get to see you much over the weekend, you'll be busy with them.

He says, "yeah, I'll see you on Thursday"....and he also says that next week he'll be busy again.....that he's NOW not going to be taking the week of holidays that he'd planned to (in which he told me a few days ago that when he took a week off, we'd spend lots of time together)...and that next week, there might even be *2* nights in a row where he has to go to hockey games (work related, client-thing)....

It's almost like he's blurting out how busy he's going to be......like he's rehearsed it........like he's enjoying telling me how he's not going to be able to see me much from now on.

I asked him if maybe he simply didn't have time for a relationship at this time. He said that wasn't the case and that this is just the way things are right now. He said, "if I could be there with you right now, I would, but I can't."

So I let him go cuz he's about to go into the stadium and it's not really the time to be discussing my insecurities, I guess.

My gut, all evening, was telling me that "SOMETHING" is going on. My gut was telling me that he COULD have come over after the game (it ended around 9:30 or 10pm) if he wanted to...but that he was either meeting up with someone or not going home (going to see his ex g/f/the slutty secretary who'd left the note I found this past weekend?..the note apparently being from 2 months ago..uh huh).

So around 9:30pm, I follow my gut. I call his house, leave a very cheery and friendly and BRIEF email....just asking him to give me a quick call before he goes to bed, that I just have to ask him something (or tell him something? can't remember which it was).

I figured if he's not going home after the game, he's obviously not going to call. And if he rolls in at midnight, I'll know due to the time he calls me.

Well folks, it's now 2:25am and he's not called. So what does that say? I don't think he's the kind of guy to NOT return a phonecall....so my money is on the fact that:

a) he went out with slutty secretary, to talk about her trip to Mexico (uh huh) and he got home late..so late that it would be tough to explain to me HOW he can stay out that late but can't come to see me, cuz he has to get up early..

b) he stayed overnight at her place

I'll never know which one it was.

I gave him a perfect opportunity to tell me it was 'over'......but he said that's not what he wanted and that he wasn't making excuses to see me due to the fact that he no longer wanted to see me...........but what the hell are his actions saying to me??

Is he trying to hurt me enough so that I'll dump HIM?

Is there such a thing as a person who doesn't want to go out with you, and you give them an easy 'way out' and chance to just tell you they don't want to, but they don't have the balls to just say it?

Or could it be that he's got someone else on the line but isn't sure if it will pan out so he's going to keep me online just in case the other falls through? Yeah, that's possible.

Well, I totally blew it (from a 'pride' standpoint)..at 11:50pm I called him...just left a very brief and slightly less friendly message saying "oh, I guess you're not home yet"........by 1am, I was not sure whether to pop a blood vessel (angry) or get into the fetal position and cry like a baby....so I called him again..and this time I left quite the message (god, I haven't done sh*t like this since I was in my early 20's...).....just told him that him not calling me, making it look like he never got home to get my message "didn't look very good" and that he can tell me all he wants that he wants to still see me but that his actions say otherwise.....and that I deserve much better......that if he wants to play the field or lie and cheat, then be a man and tell me...hell, even drop me a cowardly EMAIL and tell me "it's over".........just don't leave me in limbo, not eating, not sleeping, stressed to the max, not sure what's up or down.

This is SOOOO not like the guy I was starting to fall in love with. He's acting like a first class jerk. And yes, I fell right into it. I should have never called, never made it looked like I cared....but if I hadn't left the msg asking him to call me, I'd have never known that he either got home super late or never made it home, period.

I dont' expect to hear from him again...if he knows what's good for him. Me sitting here at home all evening, pacing the floor and my gut doing flip flops because I sense that something is 'really up'.....God I don't need this.

Can someone explain to me how a human being can be so mean? I would NEVER do this to anyone. Hell, if I had changed my mind about dating someone and I couldn't gather up the balls to tell them in person, or on the phone (how hard can that be?), there's always writing them a "Dear John" letter by email (we've emailed in the past).

hell...on Sunday night we had this discussion......frig.

I told him that if he ever decided he wanted to see someone else, or was wanting to sleep with someone else, to tell me BEFORE It happened.......to write me an email and say "sorry, it's over".........to just not do it behind my back...that that hurts so much more. Christ..I practically gave him step by step instructions on how to dump me, what more could a guy want???

Can anyone make sense of this?

Sure...he'll lie his way out (or try)..and see he got home after 10, was tired, had a shower and didn't hear phone ring (uh huh).....or that he knew he had to be up at 6:30 so he turned the ringers off both of his phones (uh huh) so that he could get some sleep. Anybody wanna make a bet? Then of course he'll twist it around and say, "YOu just don't trust me......I was just trying to get some sleep, can't a guy do that?"...then he'llmake me out to be some kind of jealous, paranoid, insecure nitwit....and he'll say "I can't date someone who doesn't trust me"

Fek, I can hear it now.

OR...he'll say, "I got your message and I'm stressed out enough because of work, I was tired, I knew I had to be up early and I just wasn't up for a possible confrontation on the phone, so I just chose not to return your call."

You know..it's been snowing lightly here this evening. If the roads weren't so bad, I would have seriously contemplated driving to his house to see if he was home..would be a snap to see if he'd come home. If there were no tracks in the driveway, that would prove it.

But that's out of the question and that's insane, I know.

So folks....2 weeks before me he'd been dating the "slutty secretary"....then she left for Mexico for a month..he likely didn't want to be alone, so he places an Internet Personal Ad (though he swears they were 'just friends' but that it could have been "more if he wanted it to be more")...meet me, sweeps me off my feet, sucks me in, ...now she's back (he said she'd be gone for about 4 weeks and that she left mid december).....so I guess he picks up where he'd left off? That's surely what it appears to me...and that note I found, as IF it was an old note from November...I'm thinking she left it recently.

If there's anyone reading this who prays, could you please say a prayer for me..I really mean it. I am too emotionally and physically worn out to pray. Please pray that God will SOMEHOW give me some peace here......that He'll help me to get over this guy ASAP.......that I will somehow not have to spend one more day with my stomach in knots....that I will stop crying.......that God will SHOW MY HEART that this guy is a LOSER and that he's not even worth wasting one second stressing and hurting over.

I am so busy with school and have such major deadlines around the corner...I can't even think straight. I am so hurt. A week ago things were great, now they have gone to hell and I don't know why. What did I do? Am I not even worthy of the truth?

If you made it this far, bless you.

Laurynn

<e-mail address removed>

January 16, 2002

n/t

January 16, 2002

ahhh laurynn,

after reading your e-mail, i couldn't help but think:

~WHY~ and ~WHAT~ are you doing to YOURSELF? *sigh*

it could be that what is preventing you from leaving him is simply fear and lack of confidence, but it's probably more complicated than that. you are intelligent, independent, witty...the list goes on.

i can't seem to find the words to describe this guy you have been dating...loser, twat, suss, selfish pig, blah, blah, blah.

ambivalence is the name of his game. yes, he wants to be with you (when HE feels like it). no, he doesn't want to commit to this relationship like you do. he can't appreciate - and perhaps even feels threatened - by a strong woman. now, you'd be crazy to let him threaten your identity and sense of self.

after reading your post, i can't help but wonder if he feels the ball is in HIS court because you are the one that appears to be doing most of the chasing here. he has the best of both worlds right now, and he doesn't deserve it. DON'T LET HIM HAVE HIS CAKE AND EAT IT TOO!!! he has very little regard for how you are feeling. as far as i am concerned, when it comes to relationships and another person's feelings, it's on or it's not. there is no middle-ground (well, not for me anymore anyway).

this guy is very particular about what he commits himself to (and it would be interesting to explore the history of that). sure, he's just as entitled to his independence as much as the next person, but it's one thing to show through actions and words that you are willing and ready to commit to a relationship and all of a sudden turn the tables once you think you have got a person where you want them.

one thing that particularly concerns me in this situation is the possiblity of ending up in a very controlling (perhaps even emotionally abusive) relationship. it is as though he can only feel secure if the his partner's individuality is swallowed up (even conforming to what HE wants), if she becomes incapable of making any independent choice. "it's my way or the highway, baby". don't become his sucker. he will be so blasè (sh*t, he's halfway there already). don't let yourself become one of those chicks you desperately want to grab by the throat and shake some sense into.

i have been in your shoes, laurynn. you probably recall me mentioning the alcoholic twat i was with for nearly 5 years. for the first 6 months, everything seemed greeeat. like your current situation, things progressed very quickly. too quickly in fact. after that 6 months, things went downhill very quickly. he distanced himself, it was all about me calling and him seeing me when he felt like it....i became someone i didn't recognise anymore. he didn't give a ranatoonga because controlling me and seeing me lose my identity made him feel secure in himself.

don't let yourself become a convenience to him, laurynn. you are far too good for that. you have already been through enough in your life. another dipstick is not what you need. watch out though: you could be nurturing what may be a bit of a fantasy that you have fallen for the 'real' him (the guy he wanted to show you in order to get you where he wanted), when in fact the 'real' him is not that man at all.

even if you feel like a fool when relationships go awry, that doesn't make you a fool. it doesn't make you ridiculous - you've merely joined a club which has millions of members, many of whom have written to this site.

it's a sad fact of life that while it takes two people to make a relationship, it can take only one to break it up; you might say this present episode is a comma, but if he says it's a full stop - really meaning it - then that's a trump card....

you are worthy of the truth. the truth is, this guy is not good enough for you. he is not on the same relationship wavelength that you are. he does not posses the qualities that you do that make a relationship an admirable one. it's his loss chicky babe - not yours. the only thing you'd be losing is something that was never truly there in the first place.

take courage: it may not matter too much what you do next, so long as it is in some observable way different to whatever may have been a pattern before.

best wishes

January 16, 2002

i meant to write "after reading your post", not e-mail.

January 16, 2002

YOU WRITE: "when a couple goes through a bad patch, a few hugs and some time FACE TO FACE helps to make both parties feel more assured about things."

I don't see the two of you as a couple. He is married. He's got two kids who take over your place when they visit. I don't see anything romantic or loving about this whole thing. The only thing you'll ever be assured about is that this is the wrong deal and you are wasting serious time with this guy. I don't see anything warm, cozy or promising here. I feel terrible each time I read one of your installments. I just hate so much to see you stuck here.

This guy is USING YOU, USING YOU, USING YOU!!! I don't know for what but I'm sure you'll learn in time. He is untruthful, deceptive, etc. However, this is a classic example of where some women are attracted to the unpredictable, the uncertain and even the abusive. This guy is certainly emotionally abusive to you. He is a first class jerk of the worst kind. He is a super dud.

I just don't know what to say. This is a roller coaster like I've never seen one. I can't read what you want out of this, what you think you'll get out of this. You are way too smart to think this is going anywhere yet you deny you're in love with this guy.

These things could not happen if your mind was more clear. Something has come upon you. The laurynn that I know would not participate in this kind of drama.

It's no longer worth commenting on individual issues. It's now the broad situation, the overview. From satellite hovering miles overhead, your association with this guy is a big black blob over part of Canada.

This is a soap opera and one that will wear you down.

Turn the channel and watch some cartoons.

January 16, 2002

no no NO NO NO MORE OF THIS!!

But not because HE says so. Because you should be saying so Laurynn. You've known this guy, what, two months? In that two month time, weigh the amount of happy times you've had as a result of your connection to him vs. the amount of unhappy time that has ensued therefrom. And? At least in the last two or three weeks it sounds like the unhappy times, the worrying times, the wondering-what-the-hell-is-going-on times outnumber the smiles by far. So what are you getting out of this?

I can't begin to know if this guy is a master game player or simply a clueless idiot (there's probably something in-between and that's probably what he is). But here's what you know:

1. He's only interested in his perspective

2. If you have problems with how he is, you need to change

3. He is in no way committed to your relationship

Those 3 things are huge HUGE problems -- and they're not your problems! They're not his problems either if he's not interested in a real relationship with a wonderful person (and he might well not be). If that is what he's looking for though, well, he needs to stop being self-centered, clueless, inconsistent and cagey. His behavior is not reassuring.

Question: in my experience, and those of several girlfriends, a lot of guys seem to love melodrama & angst. What's up with that? I thought women had the reputation for irrational game-playing. Just a little aside ...

Tony made a car analogy a couple of weeks back that I think with a little reconfiguration applies here: you are a Jaguar, standard transmission, a rare & lovely thing made to be cherished and driven fast on the open road. This guy is in the market for a used Chevy, cheap & dependable when he needs it, automatic transmission (cause he doesn't know how to drive well), something to just get him around town and something he won't have to maintain or give much thought to. Cause he's a busy guy with a busy life -- all those hockey games -- he just doesn't have time to think too much about his car. He's not looking to take a long road trip. You're too much car for him and while no one in their right mind would turn down a Jaguar, this guy isn't going to treat you like one. He's just going to drive you to the store, he's going to grind your gears (ouch!) -- in short, he'll treat you like the used Chevy that he's really looking for. Of course he's not going to say, "I need to trade down and free this Jag up for someone more suited to what she is." No no. Ego and perhaps the vague hope that someday he might be ready for the open road will prompt him to keep you (unless you become so difficult that he can't even drive you to the mall). So you need to repossess yourself and put yourself back on the market. It'll be a crying shame if this idiot gets to waste even a moment more of your time.

OK, sorry about the car analogy if you resent being compared to a car. It's one I developed for thinking about myself vis-a-vis my ex but I thought you might enjoy it too.

Dump him. Yuck. Look at the havoc he's creating in your life. Your goal, if I read you right, is to have a nice relationship that makes you happy. That is your primary goal, right? Well this guy isn't making you happy. Your goal is not to have HIM in your life (but it's easy to forget that once the emotions kick in). He does not fit the bill.

It's not about proving yourself to him. You already know how great you are. He may well be incapable of appreciating it. So why waste your time? It really is wasted on him.

January 16, 2002

Laurynn,

I first would like to thank You, Midori, Tony, Miss Mojo, & Been There for the great advice you have given me. You might remember under my posting "What Should I Do" a few days ago.

I fully understand what you are going through. I am stuck in a similar situation. My ex girlfriend broke things off with no warning or reasoning other than vague meaninless words. I am doing almost the same as you, waiting by the phone, checking mail, pacing the house wondering if she will make some effort to make contact.

The great advice that was given to me here applies to you as well. You have gone out of your way to tell him what you want and how you feel. You have made every effort to contact him by calling or mailing him. There is nothing else that you can do! It is up to him to make the next move, no matter how painfull it is too you. You have made you feelings and wishes known as he has just avoided you and given you false hopes.

Take the advice from the ones here and let it go,,,,, step back and focus yourself as to what you really want. Take some time away from him. It is him that needs to do the explaining.

Believe me, I am going through the same. My ex called again last night. She loves me, misses me, her kids miss me but she doesn't see a future because she doesn't know what the future will hold for us. No valid reasons just fears of the future.

Take the great advice that was given to me and just let go. I know it is painfull and it is a hard thing to do. But it is better than you falling into an emotional slump thinking and knocking your brain over this.

Good Luck,

Hi Fi Guy

January 16, 2002

God Midori!

Can I say I love you?!?!? LOL I just love your posts! The car analogy got me thinking, and I too relate to it. What a wonderful post, as for you Laurynn, I am so sorry for whats happening, and I can relate, but we all have to release that which is toxic to us and this guy is toxic. Good luck...........

no no NO NO NO MORE OF THIS!! But not because HE says so. Because you should be saying so Laurynn. You've known this guy, what, two months? In that two month time, weigh the amount of happy times you've had as a result of your connection to him vs. the amount of unhappy time that has ensued therefrom. And? At least in the last two or three weeks it sounds like the unhappy times, the worrying times, the wondering-what-the-hell-is-going-on times outnumber the smiles by far. So what are you getting out of this? I can't begin to know if this guy is a master game player or simply a clueless idiot (there's probably something in-between and that's probably what he is). But here's what you know: 1. He's only interested in his perspective

2. If you have problems with how he is, you need to change 3. He is in no way committed to your relationship

Those 3 things are huge HUGE problems -- and they're not your problems! They're not his problems either if he's not interested in a real relationship with a wonderful person (and he might well not be). If that is what he's looking for though, well, he needs to stop being self-centered, clueless, inconsistent and cagey. His behavior is not reassuring. Question: in my experience, and those of several girlfriends, a lot of guys seem to love melodrama & angst. What's up with that? I thought women had the reputation for irrational game-playing. Just a little aside ... Tony made a car analogy a couple of weeks back that I think with a little reconfiguration applies here: you are a Jaguar, standard transmission, a rare & lovely thing made to be cherished and driven fast on the open road. This guy is in the market for a used Chevy, cheap & dependable when he needs it, automatic transmission (cause he doesn't know how to drive well), something to just get him around town and something he won't have to maintain or give much thought to. Cause he's a busy guy with a busy life -- all those hockey games -- he just doesn't have time to think too much about his car. He's not looking to take a long road trip. You're too much car for him and while no one in their right mind would turn down a Jaguar, this guy isn't going to treat you like one. He's just going to drive you to the store, he's going to grind your gears (ouch!) -- in short, he'll treat you like the used Chevy that he's really looking for. Of course he's not going to say, "I need to trade down and free this Jag up for someone more suited to what she is." No no. Ego and perhaps the vague hope that someday he might be ready for the open road will prompt him to keep you (unless you become so difficult that he can't even drive you to the mall). So you need to repossess yourself and put yourself back on the market. It'll be a crying shame if this idiot gets to waste even a moment more of your time. OK, sorry about the car analogy if you resent being compared to a car. It's one I developed for thinking about myself vis-a-vis my ex but I thought you might enjoy it too. Dump him. Yuck. Look at the havoc he's creating in your life. Your goal, if I read you right, is to have a nice relationship that makes you happy. That is your primary goal, right? Well this guy isn't making you happy. Your goal is not to have HIM in your life (but it's easy to forget that once the emotions kick in). He does not fit the bill. It's not about proving yourself to him. You already know how great you are. He may well be incapable of appreciating it. So why waste your time? It really is wasted on him.

January 16, 2002

Well i can only say 2 things....

Of all the fighting etc that goes on between you two

well you cant really have a fight without having it with someone now ca you... i4e. both parties are to blame.

But all that can be dealt with if you 2 start communicating

if he seems unwilling just ask him why and if there is no answer after trying a few times just dump his ass.

Maybe im being a bit strong with that but its a clear cut easy solution for it all and if you think you love an abusive guy that much i think you should take a step back

and try to find a "nice guy" date him as friends for a while or go see a shrink to get a new perspective on things.

Here is my second comment... if he is so difficult to get along with why did you go for such a guy in the first place

or did you meet hi at a club/ bar after having a few

lets just say "refreshments".

Yes folks, it's the Queen of Stupidity here (again). For those who don't have a clue what situation I'm referring to, I've posted over the past few days (not too far down the board) about "more" goings-on with the guy I've been dating. For those who've followed this truly pathetic saga (mostly pathetic on my part because I can't stick to my guns and put an end to the insanity), here's a little recap and what's currently taking place. So Sunday night we talk on the phone....for over 2 hours. Regardless of all that's said, he does tell me that I'm a "cool chick" and that he's not ready to thrown in the towel yet, though he's tentative and has some doubts that things between us will work out. Based on a lot of what was said during that conversation, it was quite apparent that he's not able to see things from my point of view at all, he SUDDENLY (perhaps) has different ideas about what he's looking for in a relationship and IF I want this to work, basically I'd have to do all the changing, cuz he don't change, he is the way he is, period. Uh huh. Midway through our conversation, I asked if he felt like some company (I'd go visit him)..he was quite upfront in telling me that he just felt like being alone.....that he'd spent all day thinking about "our stuff" and that he just needed some time to process it all and 'put it away'.... Of course this made me feel uncomfortable because usually when a couple goes through a bad patch, a few hugs and some time FACE TO FACE helps to make both parties feel more assured about things.

So Monday night he has a class to go to. He calls me at 9:45pm. I wasn't home. I made it a point of not being home. I figured if he couldn't call me all day, I wasn't going to be sitting at home waiting by the phone. Stupid move on my part, I guess, cuz today (err, Tuesday) I felt really guilty.... so around 11:30am, I called him on his cell. Well, no answer (gee, cuz he always has the ringer turned off or what?)...tried an hour later. No answer. You'd think he'd answer at lunch time. Called the last time at 1:20pm.....still no answer. Of course at this point, all kinds of thoughts are running through my head. The 'topics' of the weekend resurface (the note I'd found that was written by a recent ex, the fact that she'd be back from her trip around now, was he ignoring me cuz he was with her?....) Finally around 2pm he calls. Not overly friendly. Now this is a really slow time of year in the industry he's in. So since I've met him, and because he's a "boss" there, he pretty much sets his own hours and comes and goes as he pleases... Well....he starts telling me that he's having a really busy day...that he'll be there til 5 or 5:30pm..that he was "thinking" of coming to see me after work/before the Hockey game he was going to......wasn't sure if he was going to the game. Said he'd call me as he left work to let me know. Well....6:30 the phone rings. He matter of factly tells me that he's on his way to the game. Geez, thanks for telling me at the last minute (I'd been cleaning the house, running around doing my hair and getting all dolled up...apparently all for freakin' nothing). He then tells me rather straightforwardly that he's got to be at work at 8am..that he's got an "all day meeting" (uh huh)....the first thing that runs through my mind as he tells me this is: 1) he's covering ass so that if I call his cell tomorrow, he won't answer because he's apparently in an "all day meeting" (uh huh) 2) he needs his beauty sleep cuz he has to be up early (that's early for him) so that means he'll have to go straight home from the game to get to sleep, meaning he can't see me. By now, my heart is in my throat and my gut is telling me that I'm getting blown off here......this is a guy who, up until a few days ago, made sure to see me almost every day..he couldn't stay away....now wild horses can't seem to bring him here. I ask him if he's blowing me off.......that if he doesn't want to see me anymore, to just have the balls and tell me, but not to string me along and avoid me and have a million excuses. He says to me,

"no, if it was over I'd just tell you, I wouldn't drag it out." I told him that the "timing" of his sudden busy-ness is peculiar...it's a few days after our difficult weekend. He says it's just the way things are...and that Wednesday night (tonight), he wont' see me either cuz he has his weekly pool league to go to, which goes til 10 so he'll just go straight home (yeah, right). So I say, "oh, well maybe you can pencil me in for Thursday, cuz you have your kids from Friday night til Monday morning so I won't get to see you much over the weekend, you'll be busy with them. He says, "yeah, I'll see you on Thursday"....and he also says that next week he'll be busy again.....that he's NOW not going to be taking the week of holidays that he'd planned to (in which he told me a few days ago that when he took a week off, we'd spend lots of time together)...and that next week, there might even be *2* nights in a row where he has to go to hockey games (work related, client-thing)....

It's almost like he's blurting out how busy he's going to be......like he's rehearsed it........like he's enjoying telling me how he's not going to be able to see me much from now on. I asked him if maybe he simply didn't have time for a relationship at this time. He said that wasn't the case and that this is just the way things are right now. He said, "if I could be there with you right now, I would, but I can't." So I let him go cuz he's about to go into the stadium and it's not really the time to be discussing my insecurities, I guess. My gut, all evening, was telling me that "SOMETHING" is going on. My gut was telling me that he COULD have come over after the game (it ended around 9:30 or 10pm) if he wanted to...but that he was either meeting up with someone or not going home (going to see his ex g/f/the slutty secretary who'd left the note I found this past weekend?..the note apparently being from 2 months ago..uh huh). So around 9:30pm, I follow my gut. I call his house, leave a very cheery and friendly and BRIEF email....just asking him to give me a quick call before he goes to bed, that I just have to ask him something (or tell him something? can't remember which it was). I figured if he's not going home after the game, he's obviously not going to call. And if he rolls in at midnight, I'll know due to the time he calls me. Well folks, it's now 2:25am and he's not called. So what does that say? I don't think he's the kind of guy to NOT return a phonecall....so my money is on the fact that: a) he went out with slutty secretary, to talk about her trip to Mexico (uh huh) and he got home late..so late that it would be tough to explain to me HOW he can stay out that late but can't come to see me, cuz he has to get up early.. b) he stayed overnight at her place I'll never know which one it was. I gave him a perfect opportunity to tell me it was 'over'......but he said that's not what he wanted and that he wasn't making excuses to see me due to the fact that he no longer wanted to see me...........but what the hell are his actions saying to me?? Is he trying to hurt me enough so that I'll dump HIM? Is there such a thing as a person who doesn't want to go out with you, and you give them an easy 'way out' and chance to just tell you they don't want to, but they don't have the balls to just say it? Or could it be that he's got someone else on the line but isn't sure if it will pan out so he's going to keep me online just in case the other falls through? Yeah, that's possible. Well, I totally blew it (from a 'pride' standpoint)..at 11:50pm I called him...just left a very brief and slightly less friendly message saying "oh, I guess you're not home yet"........by 1am, I was not sure whether to pop a blood vessel (angry) or get into the fetal position and cry like a baby....so I called him again..and this time I left quite the message (god, I haven't done sh*t like this since I was in my early 20's...).....just told him that him not calling me, making it look like he never got home to get my message "didn't look very good" and that he can tell me all he wants that he wants to still see me but that his actions say otherwise.....and that I deserve much better......that if he wants to play the field or lie and cheat, then be a man and tell me...hell, even drop me a cowardly EMAIL and tell me "it's over".........just don't leave me in limbo, not eating, not sleeping, stressed to the max, not sure what's up or down. This is SOOOO not like the guy I was starting to fall in love with. He's acting like a first class jerk. And yes, I fell right into it. I should have never called, never made it looked like I cared....but if I hadn't left the msg asking him to call me, I'd have never known that he either got home super late or never made it home, period.

I dont' expect to hear from him again...if he knows what's good for him. Me sitting here at home all evening, pacing the floor and my gut doing flip flops because I sense that something is 'really up'.....God I don't need this. Can someone explain to me how a human being can be so mean? I would NEVER do this to anyone. Hell, if I had changed my mind about dating someone and I couldn't gather up the balls to tell them in person, or on the phone (how hard can that be?), there's always writing them a "Dear John" letter by email (we've emailed in the past). hell...on Sunday night we had this discussion......frig.

I told him that if he ever decided he wanted to see someone else, or was wanting to sleep with someone else, to tell me BEFORE It happened.......to write me an email and say "sorry, it's over".........to just not do it behind my back...that that hurts so much more. Christ..I practically gave him step by step instructions on how to dump me, what more could a guy want??? Can anyone make sense of this? Sure...he'll lie his way out (or try)..and see he got home after 10, was tired, had a shower and didn't hear phone ring (uh huh).....or that he knew he had to be up at 6:30 so he turned the ringers off both of his phones (uh huh) so that he could get some sleep. Anybody wanna make a bet? Then of course he'll twist it around and say, "YOu just don't trust me......I was just trying to get some sleep, can't a guy do that?"...then he'llmake me out to be some kind of jealous, paranoid, insecure nitwit....and he'll say "I can't date someone who doesn't trust me" Fek, I can hear it now. OR...he'll say, "I got your message and I'm stressed out enough because of work, I was tired, I knew I had to be up early and I just wasn't up for a possible confrontation on the phone, so I just chose not to return your call."

You know..it's been snowing lightly here this evening. If the roads weren't so bad, I would have seriously contemplated driving to his house to see if he was home..would be a snap to see if he'd come home. If there were no tracks in the driveway, that would prove it. But that's out of the question and that's insane, I know. So folks....2 weeks before me he'd been dating the "slutty secretary"....then she left for Mexico for a month..he likely didn't want to be alone, so he places an Internet Personal Ad (though he swears they were 'just friends' but that it could have been "more if he wanted it to be more")...meet me, sweeps me off my feet, sucks me in, ...now she's back (he said she'd be gone for about 4 weeks and that she left mid december).....so I guess he picks up where he'd left off? That's surely what it appears to me...and that note I found, as IF it was an old note from November...I'm thinking she left it recently. If there's anyone reading this who prays, could you please say a prayer for me..I really mean it. I am too emotionally and physically worn out to pray. Please pray that God will SOMEHOW give me some peace here......that He'll help me to get over this guy ASAP.......that I will somehow not have to spend one more day with my stomach in knots....that I will stop crying.......that God will SHOW MY HEART that this guy is a LOSER and that he's not even worth wasting one second stressing and hurting over. I am so busy with school and have such major deadlines around the corner...I can't even think straight. I am so hurt. A week ago things were great, now they have gone to hell and I don't know why. What did I do? Am I not even worthy of the truth? If you made it this far, bless you. Laurynn <e-mail address removed>

January 16, 2002

First of all, before I forget (hopefully you're reading this, midori)..that "car analogy" was ABSOLUTELY PERFECT. I was definitely not offended in the least. I'm going to print that one out because it couldn't be any MORE perfect (Thanks Midori, thanks Tony).

yes, I know...at this point I'm doing this all to myself. Shame on me. All of you have raised such good points, I *think* they're really starting to finally register in my brain.

Yes, over the past few weeks there's been much more stress, uncertainty, insecurity, being upset, tears, frustration, feeling like I'm not getting 1/8th of what I'm giving.......all of these far outweigh any of the good that I've gotten or am getting from him. And yes (someone said)..this is no relationship. It's a farce. A joke.

Yes, in regards to last night (him not calling/not going home?), screw it. It doesn't matter what excuse he gives me (he did call today at noon but I just didn't answer)..I will never believe him, ever. I could be totally wrong....I could be right out to lunch about his whereabouts last night (though my gut DOES insist that something is very fishy)...but it doesn't matter at this point. In light of the 'note', the slutty secretary, the picture of his wife just 'appearing' and the zillion other little 'red flags', this is just not someone I will ever or SHOULD ever trust. For all I know, his marriage ended because of behavior like this.

At this point, it doesn't matter what the actual facts are......what matters is how he is making me feel. I refuse to spend nights apart from the person I date and have knots in my stomach and wonder what they're up to, and even CONSIDER driving to their place to see if they went home. that is such BS!!! I, like everyone, deserve to be with someone i can TRUST.

He's done and said things to give me major red flags that he can't be trusted.

Not only that, perhaps to him I'm now nothing more than a booty-call (though he won't be gettin' none of that). He totally jumped into my life with two feet..immersed himself in it.....swept me off my feet....sat there on my couch and looked me in the eye and promised me that he'd treat me better than the guys in my past...that he'd treat me like I deserved......that he'd spoil me....all those 'promises'....what a fekkkkking crock. In all honesty, he's treated me worse in this short period of time than even my abusive ex hubby......and you can't get much worse than that.

He's a control freak, a manipulator. He wants to call the shots and if I don't oblige, well then *I* am the one with the problem..*I* am the one making the 'big issue' out of a 'non-issue'.......he dictates what we can talk about and when......he's voiced reservations about dating me NOW cuz he foresees that I'll be going through a stressful time in the summer (christ..I've dealt with stress all my life, and mostly on my own...I do it quite well, as most nurses do..I think it's inherent)......HE decides when HE wants to see me but when I want to see him, then he tells me "NO"...WTF is that? This is not an equal partnership, it's anything but.

He doesn't respect me cuz I'm independent. I don't think he really respects anything about me, cept for maybe my body (but that's not respect either). Last Thursday night he showed up very late at my house.....with a small bundle of half dead flowers and wanted to take us out for a nice dinner. He didn't have more than 2 words to say to me at dinner. And the words he did say, were all about him...his job and his stuff. When I talk about myself, it's like he's really not even interested..almost like I'm simply some "yakky woman who talks too much."

He has no respect for my feelings whatsoever. If he doesn't think what he did or said hurt me, then in his mind he DID NOT HURT ME and that if I want to make a big deal out of it, that's my problem. He is the epitome of selfish, self-centered, narcissistic.

This is a guy (did I mention this?) who doesn't watch the news because he says he's ONLY interested in what affects him personally/directly. Can you believe that? How narrowminded and self-absorbed IS that? Everything in the world affects us to some degree...and even if it didn't, why not enlighten and inform yourself..so that if nothing else, you can have one more reason to be thankful for all you have.

You know...from the start, he seemed sooooo much different than the other guys I've dated in the past. I've gone back over the years and tried to find the common denominator between all the dicks i dated.....and I felt he was completely different than them. Wrong. Nothing but a wolf in sheep's clothing.

I truly want nothing more to do with him. I have to stick to that and I think this time it will be easier. I didn't sleep all night, I tossed and turned (again)....wondering where he was, who he was with. It's obvious he didn't get home last night or he'd have at LEAST listened to my msg's in the morning...and if he didn't think he should call and wake me up, he could have dropped me an email. but no, he calls at noon.

I don't even care. It's so done. It's so over. I don't want any contact with him. I don't want to hear his BS excuses or him twisting it all around and accusing me of being a jealous, insecure, untrusting twit..cuz that's what he'll do........he'll go on and on about how he's offended that I don't trust him. He will put all the focus back onto me. There is no 'excuse' or 'reason' in the world that I'm going to buy, none whatsoever. He blew it. I guess I should be thankful that I found out now......versus a week or more of hanging around (me) and going through this BS.

I'm not perfect, I'm far from it. Yes, I do have a hard time trusting...yes I am overly sensitive to some things....yes I get my feelings hurt easily....yes I have a fear of being abandoned (whether physically or emotionally)....yes, I can read too much into things...yes I can be far too analytical.......but I have a few good qualities, too.

I can't believe this dogfekker actually said to me on a few occasions that "not all men are the same".....now aint that a laugh!!! He's no different than the other jerks I've been with, no different at all..cept maybe he's shown what a jerk he is, sooner.

If it wouldn't cost so much and be such an inconvenience, I'd get both my home and cell #'s changed. And my email address, too.

He's already said that when a relationship ends, he gets over the hurt instantly ...but what hurts him most is if he's lost or had taken from him,material possessions (obviously referring to his ex wife, who took him tothe cleaners).......well good. I will not make it easy for him to get his jacket (expensive one) and shoes and other stuff back. It's not being immature or petty. Of course I don't want it but if I know it will get his goat, yahoo. I guess he should have thought about that before he started acting like such a horse's ass.

I guess this was the 'big sign' that I needed. Yes,part of me wonders what excuse he'd give me, to account for his behavior last night..and why he didn't call.......but I know that I won't buy it anyway, and I'll just be further hurt and more deeply angered at him for continuing to lie...thinking I'm so stupid that I'll fall for it. Even if I hadn't called last night, asking him to call.....my gut was still telling me loud and clear that something was going on.....I could hear the guilt and weirdness in his voice.......I could just tell.

ANyway, thanks all...I'm sorry I've written so much. I'm sure this won't be as easy as I'm thinking it's going to be at this moment (cuz I'm p*ssed right off).....but I'll try to stay strong and remember all the things you've all told me.

Thanks a lot

Laurynn

January 16, 2002

If he's so hard to get along with, then why did I go out with him to begin with? Well gee, Einstein.....he obviously was very easy to talk to in the beginning......I obviously didn't know what a jackass he was until lately. In the beginning, we used to stay up til 3am most nights, talking about everything and anything.

As for it takes 2 people to fight, bravo for you. You win a prize. Of course it takes 2 people but we weren't fighting..I was simply trying to get us to dialogue about things that people in new relationships usually talk about...and he flipped right out. Guess you weren't there.

I've read some of your responses here......you come across as really hostile, rude and unfeeling....like you purposely respond in such a way that will further antagonize the person posting. I saw it in a response you gave to "raven".....giving her hell about getting pregnant...something really stupid and crass and non-helpful.

Do you just come to this site to get your kicks and get a few little digs in? Do you have some big chip on your shoulder toward women? Does it make you feel like a big man to write such thoughtless and rude responses?

Of course I didn't meet him in a bar. God, you obviously don't know me. Fek.

January 16, 2002

Well id just like to say if i come of a rude and uncaring etc. well thats just me i "cut to the chase" without all the junk in between some find that hard to follow and some what hostile but.... well... like i care.

Im a realist and i try to offer relavent information on what i have seen others in similar situations do and

on how they ended up in those situations.

As to the comment i gave raven that was a remark on reality

since in her message she was comming of in a way that she was blaming the pregnancy only on the guy and that there was absolutely no responcibility on her shoulders for it.

Again equal responsibility... it takes 2 to dance etc etc...

i donw have a big chip on my shoulder towards women nor anyone else really and the only problems i ammuse my self with are my own if you noticed the things i wrote in the query of having been the nice guy that grew cold/ uncaring

from constant rejection.

My question is do you have towards men since they seem to be the only ones responcible for all the failed relationships and abuse in the world. (Or atleast from what i have read.)

Well all i can say to your response is that "the first stage of denial is anger...." and the proof of that anger can be seen in a way in the "big man" comment etc. you made.

Well i have a hard time seeing how anyone could have a problem with any comment on how equal rights come with equal responsibility and that any relationship is a partnership where that responsibility is divided 50/50.

As to the question of did you meet him in a bar or club that was just a propability a shot in the dark since most such relationhips start in such places and end in a manner

similar to what you have had.

You are right i dont know you but since about 90% of the average population can be categorized under certain behavior models and tendencies for certain

paterns of behavior their actions can be at times taken in the so called "text book" analysis fashion.

But then again thats just my view on things and how realities affect other realities and just to quote what Dennis miller said

"...I could be wrong"

The first thing to do when dealing with a problem is to accept its existance.

The second thing to do is to try to evaluate why the problem exists ie who has done what when and where and how ones personalities clash.

The third thing to do is to try to find a solution to the problem ie. how can i change how can my partner change.. but that requires the agreement of both parties to try and solve the situation and for them to be on the same page on the book. (That means both asign them selves the "blame"

for the things they are responsible for.)

The fourth thing is to try to apply the solution and if by this stage both parties do not agree you should take a "breather" and get back to the situation at a later time.

Usually counseling helps people deal with their problems

but if one party is not willing to deal or accept responcibility for/with the problems

well you are smart enough to figure out what the best solution then might be.

Thats the basis for most of my posts add the usual over simplification and slight exageration to it with a bit of sarcasm and synicism and you will start to understand what i mean. The only thing about my writinhg style is that

i have noticed even though people might not take the time to solve their problems according to the advice given

the crass direct responce to their query can give them

a basis to think of the problem of what they are dealing with and a basis from that so that they wont repeat the mistake again.

(They may run away but eventually they will understand what you meant by your comment or in this case my comments.)

Well what can i say im an "egghead" and you can grow to become like me when your treated as "less than human" by

basically everyone but then agian thats my problem which i mentioned in my own query earlier.

Just as a final note there are more ways then 1 to fight...

sometimes you are fighting even though you might not realize how the situation affects your relationship.

If he's so hard to get along with, then why did I go out with him to begin with? Well gee, Einstein.....he obviously was very easy to talk to in the beginning......I obviously didn't know what a jackass he was until lately. In the beginning, we used to stay up til 3am most nights, talking about everything and anything. As for it takes 2 people to fight, bravo for you. You win a prize. Of course it takes 2 people but we weren't fighting..I was simply trying to get us to dialogue about things that people in new relationships usually talk about...and he flipped right out. Guess you weren't there.

I've read some of your responses here......you come across as really hostile, rude and unfeeling....like you purposely respond in such a way that will further antagonize the person posting. I saw it in a response you gave to "raven".....giving her hell about getting pregnant...something really stupid and crass and non-helpful. Do you just come to this site to get your kicks and get a few little digs in? Do you have some big chip on your shoulder toward women? Does it make you feel like a big man to write such thoughtless and rude responses? Of course I didn't meet him in a bar. God, you obviously don't know me. Fek.

January 16, 2002

kkkllo

January 17, 2002

Anthony,

I love it that all of this relationship "advice" you are putting out is coming from someone who has never been in a relationship. It would be very nice if relationships followed a rule book, but they don't, and situations need to be handled differently with different people. People experience and feel different things, and you will be very shocked how many of your "textbook rules" fly out the window when emotions get involved.

I also love it that you claim to be such a "nice" guy who got screwed over, when you've posted nothing but rude things to people who have come here asking for meaningful advice, then get angry at them for not listening to your advice. Did you listen to any of the advice given to you, or even give it any consideration?

Further, you seem to be a big proponent of 50/50 responsibility, yet you neglect to take responsibility for your life and happiness, instead choosing (or so it seems) to wallow in misery based on past rejections. You are 20! It's not strange that you haven't had a relationship yet. It's also not strange that you have been rejected. I'll say it again. Everyone goes through rejection, as you can see on this board. The difference is that most people find a way to get through it and put it behind them. My advice to you is to do just that. Stop blaming new people you meet (both on this site and in person) for things people have done to you in the past.

I sincerely wish you the best in finding someone who is as perfect as you.

(Sorry to butt in, Laurynn.)

Well id just like to say if i come of a rude and uncaring etc. well thats just me i "cut to the chase" without all the junk in between some find that hard to follow and some what hostile but.... well... like i care. Im a realist and i try to offer relavent information on what i have seen others in similar situations do and on how they ended up in those situations.

As to the comment i gave raven that was a remark on reality since in her message she was comming of in a way that she was blaming the pregnancy only on the guy and that there was absolutely no responcibility on her shoulders for it. Again equal responsibility... it takes 2 to dance etc etc... i donw have a big chip on my shoulder towards women nor anyone else really and the only problems i ammuse my self with are my own if you noticed the things i wrote in the query of having been the nice guy that grew cold/ uncaring from constant rejection. My question is do you have towards men since they seem to be the only ones responcible for all the failed relationships and abuse in the world. (Or atleast from what i have read.) Well all i can say to your response is that "the first stage of denial is anger...." and the proof of that anger can be seen in a way in the "big man" comment etc. you made.

Well i have a hard time seeing how anyone could have a problem with any comment on how equal rights come with equal responsibility and that any relationship is a partnership where that responsibility is divided 50/50. As to the question of did you meet him in a bar or club that was just a propability a shot in the dark since most such relationhips start in such places and end in a manner similar to what you have had. You are right i dont know you but since about 90% of the average population can be categorized under certain behavior models and tendencies for certain paterns of behavior their actions can be at times taken in the so called "text book" analysis fashion. But then again thats just my view on things and how realities affect other realities and just to quote what Dennis miller said "...I could be wrong" The first thing to do when dealing with a problem is to accept its existance. The second thing to do is to try to evaluate why the problem exists ie who has done what when and where and how ones personalities clash. The third thing to do is to try to find a solution to the problem ie. how can i change how can my partner change.. but that requires the agreement of both parties to try and solve the situation and for them to be on the same page on the book. (That means both asign them selves the "blame" for the things they are responsible for.)

The fourth thing is to try to apply the solution and if by this stage both parties do not agree you should take a "breather" and get back to the situation at a later time. Usually counseling helps people deal with their problems but if one party is not willing to deal or accept responcibility for/with the problems well you are smart enough to figure out what the best solution then might be. Thats the basis for most of my posts add the usual over simplification and slight exageration to it with a bit of sarcasm and synicism and you will start to understand what i mean. The only thing about my writinhg style is that i have noticed even though people might not take the time to solve their problems according to the advice given the crass direct responce to their query can give them a basis to think of the problem of what they are dealing with and a basis from that so that they wont repeat the mistake again. (They may run away but eventually they will understand what you meant by your comment or in this case my comments.) Well what can i say im an "egghead" and you can grow to become like me when your treated as "less than human" by basically everyone but then agian thats my problem which i mentioned in my own query earlier.

Just as a final note there are more ways then 1 to fight... sometimes you are fighting even though you might not realize how the situation affects your relationship.

January 17, 2002

And I hope you are holding up well.

January 18, 2002

And once again missing the point my question was whats wrong with me or in the other case whats wrong with them.

I also mentioned that i do take responsibility for my own actions and that i wouldnt have goten to the point i am

now if i had done otherwise.

As i was explaining its not just that i have been rejected a few times here and there but rather that it is a constant kind of like gravity. As to taking responsibility for my own happiness well duhh thats what i have been doing for the past 17 or so years.

By such commentary you propably missed my whole point of emotional resources and such since you most likely belong to the group fo individuals whom have no problems "dating".

who said anything about a rule book i only noted that most people own behaviors that can be predicted upon and that sertain action have sertain reactions and so forth and so on

nothing about rules just observation. but even as cush i mentioned earlier that i do treat each case at its individual "parameters" to the point of responding in kind to how they respond to me... meaning if they ignore me i stop bothering... if they talk back a conversation might develope... so on and so forth.

As to my "Advice" on relationships well like i said people and their behaviors can be extrapolated on as in the format of all actions have consequenses and reprecutions which can be seen in advance but should be applied to the basis of the individual. From there add to that my own experiences with and how people so far have reacted ot me.. well i can offer advice more or less to the extent of pointing out that the person in question should learn from the mistakes they have made... take responsibility for their own actions... and in sertain cases seek help from whic ever legal branch, facility or institution their problems might

require.

Just to point out that even emotions can be viewed from the same perspective of predictability i mentioned... and like

i said that it all depends on the individual.. besides i have yet to be shocked by anything... exept maybe the limited capasity for thought of some "normal" people i have

come across over the years.

Anthony, I love it that all of this relationship "advice" you are putting out is coming from someone who has never been in a relationship. It would be very nice if relationships followed a rule book, but they don't, and situations need to be handled differently with different people. People experience and feel different things, and you will be very shocked how many of your "textbook rules" fly out the window when emotions get involved.

I also love it that you claim to be such a "nice" guy who got screwed over, when you've posted nothing but rude things to people who have come here asking for meaningful advice, then get angry at them for not listening to your advice. Did you listen to any of the advice given to you, or even give it any consideration? Further, you seem to be a big proponent of 50/50 responsibility, yet you neglect to take responsibility for your life and happiness, instead choosing (or so it seems) to wallow in misery based on past rejections. You are 20! It's not strange that you haven't had a relationship yet. It's also not strange that you have been rejected. I'll say it again. Everyone goes through rejection, as you can see on this board. The difference is that most people find a way to get through it and put it behind them. My advice to you is to do just that. Stop blaming new people you meet (both on this site and in person) for things people have done to you in the past. I sincerely wish you the best in finding someone who is as perfect as you. (Sorry to butt in, Laurynn.)

January 18, 2002

Oh and just to point out i havent gotten angry about anything just tried to explain my point of view and maybe throw in a joke or two most of which have been for what ever reason mistaken upon as insults.

Something i forgot to mention in my previous post

I have been in love on more than one occation unfortunately

those feelings were never returned and were allways towards

people whom i had thought had felt the same.

just to give you a few examples on how it has gone before i turned the way i am now by the way it was a slow process.

1st girl i tried to approach a "friend" of 2 years whom i had started to get close to and eventually fell for....

well she laughed in my face when i tried to bring it up

and later on ostracized me and became very mean in other aspects.... a few months later i learned that she had started dating one of the guys whom used to torture me on a daily basis. We were both around 15 so mistakes of youth

can be placed for blame on that 1 but i learned from it.

Next would be a girl i met in a college class about the same age i was which was about 18 she sat next to me right from the first day from her own choise and flirted back and forth we got to know each other and had quite a few lunch dates... most of which i paid for. as the semester came to an ned i had developed feelings towards her not quite love but close enough.. as i asked her if she wanted to go out on a date... well she told me a little fun thing she forgot to mention during the semester and all of our lunch dates...

her boyfriend of 5 years... oh so much fun.Learned a few things from there too.

Just a few pinacles of my "dating life" add to that a few random dates here and there some psychotic women i met with from the personals i placed and others i met in real life whom turned out as being the same as the ones before.

Just think of situation where you have had to sit alone in a preverbial corner with out anyone asking you to dance and everyone you ask refuses to dance with you not dependant of what the person you have tried to approach has been like or what your history with that person has been.

Suffice to say if you have felt love and tried tried and tried again and time again never recieving anything back you eventually grow cold.

As a guy if i try to complain about such behavior on the part of women i get harassed by them but no one has any problem with women complaining about abusive men.

Just a bit of that irony i was talking about.

Oh yeah and on that predictability thing try reading a few books on psychology and you might get the hang on what i have tried to explain.

Anthony, I love it that all of this relationship "advice" you are putting out is coming from someone who has never been in a relationship. It would be very nice if relationships followed a rule book, but they don't, and situations need to be handled differently with different people. People experience and feel different things, and you will be very shocked how many of your "textbook rules" fly out the window when emotions get involved.

I also love it that you claim to be such a "nice" guy who got screwed over, when you've posted nothing but rude things to people who have come here asking for meaningful advice, then get angry at them for not listening to your advice. Did you listen to any of the advice given to you, or even give it any consideration? Further, you seem to be a big proponent of 50/50 responsibility, yet you neglect to take responsibility for your life and happiness, instead choosing (or so it seems) to wallow in misery based on past rejections. You are 20! It's not strange that you haven't had a relationship yet. It's also not strange that you have been rejected. I'll say it again. Everyone goes through rejection, as you can see on this board. The difference is that most people find a way to get through it and put it behind them. My advice to you is to do just that. Stop blaming new people you meet (both on this site and in person) for things people have done to you in the past. I sincerely wish you the best in finding someone who is as perfect as you. (Sorry to butt in, Laurynn.)

January 19, 2002

Laurynn, Laurynn, Laurynn

I feel like I've just read something I would've written a couple of years ago! You probably don't remember me, but I am the bag who helped to break up my ex boyfriend and new wife last summer by telling her he was still on the single's line. Well, she went back to him after all that, but she eventually got a restraining order and divorced him in October. We started seeing each other again in August. I let him talk me into it--my bad!! Even though I live out of town, we'd see each other every two weeks until Nov. 17, when he calls at 6 am to tell me about the meteor shower and that he can't see me when I come home for Thanksgiving because he's got family coming in. After that, it's been pretty much over. But this is all par for the course between me and him. When we first started dating in June '99, He called me everyday (long distance) came to visit me, proposed, then suddenly, unexplicably, got spooked and drifted away. I do pray, and I will pray for you. It is sad to go through this. You are in the first stages, so it's much more painful, I know. I've finally decided to get off the roller coaster I've ridden for almost 3 years! He says I deserve better-he's right. YOu deserve better,too. Most guys won't just come out and break it off-they like to keep their options open. He knows you're crazy about him, so he's not feeling insecure. He knows you'll be there. Just like I was for my guy. Operative word-WAS!!!

Yes folks, it's the Queen of Stupidity here (again). For those who don't have a clue what situation I'm referring to, I've posted over the past few days (not too far down the board) about "more" goings-on with the guy I've been dating. For those who've followed this truly pathetic saga (mostly pathetic on my part because I can't stick to my guns and put an end to the insanity), here's a little recap and what's currently taking place. So Sunday night we talk on the phone....for over 2 hours. Regardless of all that's said, he does tell me that I'm a "cool chick" and that he's not ready to thrown in the towel yet, though he's tentative and has some doubts that things between us will work out. Based on a lot of what was said during that conversation, it was quite apparent that he's not able to see things from my point of view at all, he SUDDENLY (perhaps) has different ideas about what he's looking for in a relationship and IF I want this to work, basically I'd have to do all the changing, cuz he don't change, he is the way he is, period. Uh huh. Midway through our conversation, I asked if he felt like some company (I'd go visit him)..he was quite upfront in telling me that he just felt like being alone.....that he'd spent all day thinking about "our stuff" and that he just needed some time to process it all and 'put it away'.... Of course this made me feel uncomfortable because usually when a couple goes through a bad patch, a few hugs and some time FACE TO FACE helps to make both parties feel more assured about things.

So Monday night he has a class to go to. He calls me at 9:45pm. I wasn't home. I made it a point of not being home. I figured if he couldn't call me all day, I wasn't going to be sitting at home waiting by the phone. Stupid move on my part, I guess, cuz today (err, Tuesday) I felt really guilty.... so around 11:30am, I called him on his cell. Well, no answer (gee, cuz he always has the ringer turned off or what?)...tried an hour later. No answer. You'd think he'd answer at lunch time. Called the last time at 1:20pm.....still no answer. Of course at this point, all kinds of thoughts are running through my head. The 'topics' of the weekend resurface (the note I'd found that was written by a recent ex, the fact that she'd be back from her trip around now, was he ignoring me cuz he was with her?....) Finally around 2pm he calls. Not overly friendly. Now this is a really slow time of year in the industry he's in. So since I've met him, and because he's a "boss" there, he pretty much sets his own hours and comes and goes as he pleases... Well....he starts telling me that he's having a really busy day...that he'll be there til 5 or 5:30pm..that he was "thinking" of coming to see me after work/before the Hockey game he was going to......wasn't sure if he was going to the game. Said he'd call me as he left work to let me know. Well....6:30 the phone rings. He matter of factly tells me that he's on his way to the game. Geez, thanks for telling me at the last minute (I'd been cleaning the house, running around doing my hair and getting all dolled up...apparently all for freakin' nothing). He then tells me rather straightforwardly that he's got to be at work at 8am..that he's got an "all day meeting" (uh huh)....the first thing that runs through my mind as he tells me this is: 1) he's covering ass so that if I call his cell tomorrow, he won't answer because he's apparently in an "all day meeting" (uh huh) 2) he needs his beauty sleep cuz he has to be up early (that's early for him) so that means he'll have to go straight home from the game to get to sleep, meaning he can't see me. By now, my heart is in my throat and my gut is telling me that I'm getting blown off here......this is a guy who, up until a few days ago, made sure to see me almost every day..he couldn't stay away....now wild horses can't seem to bring him here. I ask him if he's blowing me off.......that if he doesn't want to see me anymore, to just have the balls and tell me, but not to string me along and avoid me and have a million excuses. He says to me,

"no, if it was over I'd just tell you, I wouldn't drag it out." I told him that the "timing" of his sudden busy-ness is peculiar...it's a few days after our difficult weekend. He says it's just the way things are...and that Wednesday night (tonight), he wont' see me either cuz he has his weekly pool league to go to, which goes til 10 so he'll just go straight home (yeah, right). So I say, "oh, well maybe you can pencil me in for Thursday, cuz you have your kids from Friday night til Monday morning so I won't get to see you much over the weekend, you'll be busy with them. He says, "yeah, I'll see you on Thursday"....and he also says that next week he'll be busy again.....that he's NOW not going to be taking the week of holidays that he'd planned to (in which he told me a few days ago that when he took a week off, we'd spend lots of time together)...and that next week, there might even be *2* nights in a row where he has to go to hockey games (work related, client-thing)....

It's almost like he's blurting out how busy he's going to be......like he's rehearsed it........like he's enjoying telling me how he's not going to be able to see me much from now on. I asked him if maybe he simply didn't have time for a relationship at this time. He said that wasn't the case and that this is just the way things are right now. He said, "if I could be there with you right now, I would, but I can't." So I let him go cuz he's about to go into the stadium and it's not really the time to be discussing my insecurities, I guess. My gut, all evening, was telling me that "SOMETHING" is going on. My gut was telling me that he COULD have come over after the game (it ended around 9:30 or 10pm) if he wanted to...but that he was either meeting up with someone or not going home (going to see his ex g/f/the slutty secretary who'd left the note I found this past weekend?..the note apparently being from 2 months ago..uh huh). So around 9:30pm, I follow my gut. I call his house, leave a very cheery and friendly and BRIEF email....just asking him to give me a quick call before he goes to bed, that I just have to ask him something (or tell him something? can't remember which it was). I figured if he's not going home after the game, he's obviously not going to call. And if he rolls in at midnight, I'll know due to the time he calls me. Well folks, it's now 2:25am and he's not called. So what does that say? I don't think he's the kind of guy to NOT return a phonecall....so my money is on the fact that: a) he went out with slutty secretary, to talk about her trip to Mexico (uh huh) and he got home late..so late that it would be tough to explain to me HOW he can stay out that late but can't come to see me, cuz he has to get up early.. b) he stayed overnight at her place I'll never know which one it was. I gave him a perfect opportunity to tell me it was 'over'......but he said that's not what he wanted and that he wasn't making excuses to see me due to the fact that he no longer wanted to see me...........but what the hell are his actions saying to me?? Is he trying to hurt me enough so that I'll dump HIM? Is there such a thing as a person who doesn't want to go out with you, and you give them an easy 'way out' and chance to just tell you they don't want to, but they don't have the balls to just say it? Or could it be that he's got someone else on the line but isn't sure if it will pan out so he's going to keep me online just in case the other falls through? Yeah, that's possible. Well, I totally blew it (from a 'pride' standpoint)..at 11:50pm I called him...just left a very brief and slightly less friendly message saying "oh, I guess you're not home yet"........by 1am, I was not sure whether to pop a blood vessel (angry) or get into the fetal position and cry like a baby....so I called him again..and this time I left quite the message (god, I haven't done sh*t like this since I was in my early 20's...).....just told him that him not calling me, making it look like he never got home to get my message "didn't look very good" and that he can tell me all he wants that he wants to still see me but that his actions say otherwise.....and that I deserve much better......that if he wants to play the field or lie and cheat, then be a man and tell me...hell, even drop me a cowardly EMAIL and tell me "it's over".........just don't leave me in limbo, not eating, not sleeping, stressed to the max, not sure what's up or down. This is SOOOO not like the guy I was starting to fall in love with. He's acting like a first class jerk. And yes, I fell right into it. I should have never called, never made it looked like I cared....but if I hadn't left the msg asking him to call me, I'd have never known that he either got home super late or never made it home, period.

I dont' expect to hear from him again...if he knows what's good for him. Me sitting here at home all evening, pacing the floor and my gut doing flip flops because I sense that something is 'really up'.....God I don't need this. Can someone explain to me how a human being can be so mean? I would NEVER do this to anyone. Hell, if I had changed my mind about dating someone and I couldn't gather up the balls to tell them in person, or on the phone (how hard can that be?), there's always writing them a "Dear John" letter by email (we've emailed in the past). hell...on Sunday night we had this discussion......frig.

I told him that if he ever decided he wanted to see someone else, or was wanting to sleep with someone else, to tell me BEFORE It happened.......to write me an email and say "sorry, it's over".........to just not do it behind my back...that that hurts so much more. Christ..I practically gave him step by step instructions on how to dump me, what more could a guy want??? Can anyone make sense of this? Sure...he'll lie his way out (or try)..and see he got home after 10, was tired, had a shower and didn't hear phone ring (uh huh).....or that he knew he had to be up at 6:30 so he turned the ringers off both of his phones (uh huh) so that he could get some sleep. Anybody wanna make a bet? Then of course he'll twist it around and say, "YOu just don't trust me......I was just trying to get some sleep, can't a guy do that?"...then he'llmake me out to be some kind of jealous, paranoid, insecure nitwit....and he'll say "I can't date someone who doesn't trust me" Fek, I can hear it now. OR...he'll say, "I got your message and I'm stressed out enough because of work, I was tired, I knew I had to be up early and I just wasn't up for a possible confrontation on the phone, so I just chose not to return your call."

You know..it's been snowing lightly here this evening. If the roads weren't so bad, I would have seriously contemplated driving to his house to see if he was home..would be a snap to see if he'd come home. If there were no tracks in the driveway, that would prove it. But that's out of the question and that's insane, I know. So folks....2 weeks before me he'd been dating the "slutty secretary"....then she left for Mexico for a month..he likely didn't want to be alone, so he places an Internet Personal Ad (though he swears they were 'just friends' but that it could have been "more if he wanted it to be more")...meet me, sweeps me off my feet, sucks me in, ...now she's back (he said she'd be gone for about 4 weeks and that she left mid december).....so I guess he picks up where he'd left off? That's surely what it appears to me...and that note I found, as IF it was an old note from November...I'm thinking she left it recently. If there's anyone reading this who prays, could you please say a prayer for me..I really mean it. I am too emotionally and physically worn out to pray. Please pray that God will SOMEHOW give me some peace here......that He'll help me to get over this guy ASAP.......that I will somehow not have to spend one more day with my stomach in knots....that I will stop crying.......that God will SHOW MY HEART that this guy is a LOSER and that he's not even worth wasting one second stressing and hurting over. I am so busy with school and have such major deadlines around the corner...I can't even think straight. I am so hurt. A week ago things were great, now they have gone to hell and I don't know why. What did I do? Am I not even worthy of the truth? If you made it this far, bless you. Laurynn <e-mail address removed>

You think I'd learn!!!!

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