Engagement fights

[manny1]

Hi all,

 

I had been dating my fiancee for 12 months and got engaged four months ago.

We seem to be arguing about wedding planning a lot. My parents and her parents are helping with wedding costs but there is a massive gulf in ideas on each side.

Her parents want a big do in a fancy expensive hotel for which they want my parents to share the costs. The amount of money involved is excessive to me and I don't feel comfortable spending the amount of money they are asking.

They have been quite aggressive about the fact that it is important for their status that it happens in a fancy venue.

My fiancee and I don't see eye to eye on this and she is not willing to compromise. They do not want to reduce the numbers on their side nor go to a cheaper "less fancy" venue for the evening reception as it would be disrespectful to their guests! Her mother is fairly controlling and I can see that even if my parents pay what they can I'll struggle to have any say. For them it is about giving their daughter away in a fancy venue to show people and whenever I disagree the fights start.

 

I'm worried about what a future with her will be like as it appears people's feelings don't matter as long as she gets what she wants. My family don't see any future for me with her and I am afraid of walking away. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks

[d0nnivain]

For now slow everything down.

 

 

Then apply the Golden Rule to your wedding, which is S/He who has the gold makes the rules.

 

 

I'd sit everybody down with a budget. Explain how much money you have & what that affords you. If somebody (her parents) is unhappy about that then invite them to pay for the whole thing; if they agree then you shut up. If they won't increase their budget to accommodate their wishes then your FI has to tell them to shut up. If she can't do that, you put everything on hold & get premarital counseling on the issue of balancing family or origin issues with new marriage issues.

 

 

I will share with you that DH & I wanted a small wedding. My parents wanted the expensive over the top gala they threw us. It was their money so we went with their wishes.

[carhill]

OP, first, congrats on your engagement. Second, welcome to the world of the to be betrothed. It gets a little nuts!

 

You've identified two major points of potential conflict in a marriage; family and money. The third will rear its head if you have children.

 

Hence, now, IMO, is a perfect time to form the framework of the team and how it faces internal and external conflict and outside forces. PMC is a perfect place for that. IMO, better to get PMC now rather than, oh no the marriage is falling off the cliff MC later on. Work things now.

 

Back when I was married, we ended up standing in for the groom's parents at my exW's nieces wedding because, well, her family and the groom's family had a similar tiff about 'stuff' and the groom's parents boycotted the wedding I mean, here my wife and I are lighting candles in some cathedral and going WTF! Later on, it got so bad that the groom denied his parents visitation with their first grandchild from the male family heir. Crazy stuff. However, he and his wife were a team, had been together a long time before getting married, and were unshakable.

 

Good luck!

[privategal]

My parents were not wealthy at ALL his were. They also wanted the fancy venue...my parents finally just said we can contribute this amount of $ only.

The other half would have to decide to change venue or not. As for you two...the wedding matters not..the marriage does.

Don't get caught in the middle. State your wishes on how big and style...then put the parents in touch to battle costs. There should ve ZERO fighting...you guys dont have to get stressed or argue.

Its your day and your not paying so think of what matters is you found your WIFE and you will have fun if its in a back yard or in a fancy hotel. Just enjoy the engagement and pick ur battles and go with the flow!!

[BettyDraper]

My mother tried to force my husband and I to let her plan and pay for a luxury wedding. She didn't care that we wanted something upscale yet intimate. My MIL wanted to plan the wedding in the area where she was from. Since both our mothers were impossible to reason with, my husband and I decided to elope even though we knew there would be a backlash. We tired of the interference and our elopement taught our mothers a valuable lesson.

 

If you want control of your wedding, you will have to pay for the event yourselves.

 

It is worrisome that your in-laws are this controlling but hardly uncommon...especially in families who are materialistic and at least upper middle class. I say this as someone who had the same experience. It isn't a good sign that your fiancee is not willing to compromise or stand up to her parents. Too many women focus far too much on their weddings and not their marriages. Tell your fiancee that if she cannot compromise and she cannot set boundaries with her parents, you would like to postpone the wedding until she can show that she is mature enough to be a wife.

[manny1]

Thanks for the replies.

My family have suggested they pay for the whole thing and do what they like and my family will host an evening function another day at a place we can afford to reciprocate. They were totally against this and even belittled my parents and began arguing with me that we would host it in a venue that is beneath their guests. Her side cannot afford to do a fancy wedding by themselves . My other half at no point stood up for me during these arguments. My other half herself wants a fancy wedding too so me and her cannot agree on this point at all.

They have a slightly larger budget than us and they are willing to pay the difference but I still don't feel comfortable with my parents being kind of forced to spending an excessive amount of money.

 

I agree we need to cool things down and take a step back. I'll definitely look into PWC. I've spoken to her about compromising and setting boundaries so will see how she responds.

Edited January 1, 2016 by manny1

[ShatteredLady]

You guys need to pull together. REALLY talk about this! Maybe include the person doing your service (I don't know what religion you are) our vicar was GREAT with these things....it really helps having an 'authority figure' give you guidance. The excitement & expectations of a wedding can become so stressful!

 

The fact that her family wants something that they can't afford is the most worrying thing in my opinion. They 'need' to pretend to their guests (close family & friends) that they are more affluent than they really are! WHY? Ugh!

How does your future wife handle money? Remember that financial stresses are one of the HUGE causes of marital problems.

 

It's best to iron out these things BEFORE you tie the knot.

 

I think you're right in worrying about your parents. They want you & your wife to have the 'perfect' day. Please don't let them get into financial problems over your wedding.

Traditionally the brides parents pay. It's not unreasonable to expect them to pay the lions share, particularly because it's what they want.

 

Congratulations!! The rest of your life is the important bit NOT just the one day

[d0nnivain]

My other half at no point stood up for me during these arguments. My other half herself wants a fancy wedding too so me and her cannot agree on this point at all.

 

 

This is the problem. If you can't get her focused on having a wedding you two can afford -- without any contribution from either set of parents -- then her priorities are not in line with yours. Going into debt for a party is insane.

[BettyDraper]

Thanks for the replies.

My family have suggested they pay for the whole thing and do what they like and my family will host an evening function another day at a place we can afford to reciprocate. They were totally against this and even belittled my parents and began arguing with me that we would host it in a venue that is beneath their guests. Her side cannot afford to do a fancy wedding by themselves . My other half at no point stood up for me during these arguments. My other half herself wants a fancy wedding too so me and her cannot agree on this point at all.

They have a slightly larger budget than us and they are willing to pay the difference but I still don't feel comfortable with my parents being kind of forced to spending an excessive amount of money.

 

I agree we need to cool things down and take a step back. I'll definitely look into PWC. I've spoken to her about compromising and setting boundaries so will see how she responds.

 

I think it is crass of your in-laws to demand that your parents help pay for a luxury wedding. If the in-laws want a luxury wedding, they should be prepared to pay for it! The temerity is astounding.

 

Your fiancee sounds rather spoiled and entitled. Be careful about marrying a woman who has champagne taste and a beer budget. You could end up in a lot of debt trying to keep her happy over the years. I don't understand women like this because I don't even like it when my husband spends full price on an item I want. It's Ebay all the way for me.

[ShatteredLady]

If a person (male or female) can't manage their spending without filling-up credit cards they're not ready to get married & DEFINITELY not ready to even think about having children!

 

We are living in a crazy world. I know too many couples who divorced STILL in debt over wedding expenses.

[ShatteredLady]

My friends daughter eventually asked family to 'donate' the money they set aside for a big wedding to add to their house deposit & had a very simple, beautiful ceremony in their new home

[BettyDraper]

My friends daughter eventually asked family to 'donate' the money they set aside for a big wedding to add to their house deposit & had a very simple, beautiful ceremony in their new home

 

That's what I'm talking about! Smart woman.

 

My mother told me that the wedding gifts of money would pay for a house.

She also hinted that she and my father would give me money towards a home.

 

I wouldn't have accepted financial assistance from my parents because I know that comes with strings attached. My mother would want to choose our house, have a key and choose decor. We just bought our first home in October after 5 years of marriage and living in apartments. We didn't want my parents to have anything to hold over our heads.

[MJJean]

Then apply the Golden Rule to your wedding, which is S/He who has the gold makes the rules.

 

My DH's friend, C, married a young woman from an affluent family. They were dating in their mid-20's, she got pregnant, they got married. Her parents paid for the wedding, so they made the decisions. Her parents also bought them a house, which they chose. And her parents bought them cars when theirs fell apart. And the parents picked the cars, too. When the baby was old enough to go to school, her parents decided the child needed to go to private school and they got to pick the school since they were paying for it. Ditto with family vacations, holidays, etc. etc. As far as I can tell, C has spent the last 12 years living his life exactly the way her parents want him to. He's educated and working, but because her parents have money and bought their way into the marriage years ago, he doesn't get to have so much as an opinion of his own.

 

If you don't put a foot down now, I can almost guarantee you her parents will be telling you where/how to live, what to drive, how to raise the children and where they will be educated during their formative years, etc etc.

 

Sometimes, we tend to over complicate things in an effort to keep the peace. Frequently, that fails and more damage is done than would have been had things been handled a bit more....forthrightly.

 

You do have the ability to simply say "My family can not and will not pay for a wedding beyond their means. If you are taking control of the decision making and refuse to compromise, then you will also be responsible for the costs. This is not open for debate or discussion. Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd demonstrate basic decency and keep any negative comments and opinions about my family and their financial means to yourselves."

 

 

My DH and I got married by a Justice of the Peace in his chambers. Because we didn't want to "have a wedding", his parents decided to just give us the money. It was enough to put 30% down payment on our house. A few years later, I acted as Matron of Honor for my friend. After going through planning a wedding and reception with her I was on my knees thanking God I opted out of a "real wedding".

Edited January 2, 2016 by MJJean

[Mr. Lucky]

My family have suggested they pay for the whole thing and do what they like and my family will host an evening function another day at a place we can afford to reciprocate. They were totally against this and even belittled my parents and began arguing with me that we would host it in a venue that is beneath their guests. Her side cannot afford to do a fancy wedding by themselves .

 

I'd say it's time for your family to stop "suggesting" and to calmly state "here's what we can afford".

 

Were it me, I'd be tempted to elope. Weddings are supposed to bring people together...

 

Mr. Lucky

[ShatteredLady]

I know Mr Lucky. It's crazy isn't it?!?!

 

Everyone I know who has eloped in this situation has eventually caved & had a church 'blessing' to keep the peace. Families can be so complicated.

 

This is a wife's family who CAN'T AFFORD the lifestyle that they want to portray they have to others! They're demanding that HIS family spend huge amounts of money that they can't afford just to show-off. Ugh! Horrible situation.

 

I think he needs to protect his parents. They clearly want to make him & his wife & her family happy. It's so wrong that they should be made to feel like this. They SHOULD NOT go into debt to keep the peace. That's so wrong.

[11012015]

Her parents want a big do in a fancy expensive hotel for which they want my parents to share the costs.

 

They have been quite aggressive about the fact that it is important for their status that it happens in a fancy venue.

 

They do not want to reduce the numbers on their side nor go to a cheaper "less fancy" venue for the evening reception as it would be disrespectful to their guests!

 

Her mother is fairly controlling and I can see that even if my parents pay what they can I'll struggle to have any say. For them it is about giving their daughter away in a fancy venue to show people and whenever I disagree the fights start.

 

Easy. Remind them girl's parents cover the wedding [something I didn't know before] and let them have all the control and decision re: #of guests and 5-star hotel. You didn't ask his parents $ to cover half of the engagement ring ... it is so unreasonable for them to expect certain things and then ask half of that to be covered by your parents. So silly as any normal thinking person can realize chances are both of your families aren't going to be at the same financial situation.

[11012015]

The fact that her family wants something that they can't afford is the most worrying thing in my opinion. They 'need' to pretend to their guests (close family & friends) that they are more affluent than they really are!

 

Great point!

 

I first thought her family wanted your family to contribute but after seeing your remark that they can't afford the whole thing by themselves, one wonders what kind of a family she grew up in and whether it is her behavior as well. Think about that.

[todreaminblue]

for em personally i have always wondered why anyone would want to go into a marriage with a heap of debt from just one wedding day of over indulgence.....weddings that cost the price of a house ......or a small hobby farm to me...would be better to put money away for a future together than blow it on an extravagant one day only wedding.......but ....that's me and i understand some women like to have their nuptials surrounded by diamond studded silverware and that makes it really special to them....

 

 

 

i think what donnivain suggested was really positive to sit down and discuss the budget and what you are comfortable with....it is a little concerning that it seems to be more about the wedding day venue then the actual marriage and not very respectful to your wishes and ideas....you should have input as should the bride to be......and there should be at least compromise on the table.....if you cant compromise on a wedding...hows it gonna be when things get rough down the track....i really wish you well and hope everything works out well for the both of you...both families should be respectful of the fact it is yours and her day .even if they are paying for the majority of it...your views should be shown respect and talked about openly.....deb

[Popsicle]

My parents were going to pay for the whole wedding but my in laws volunteered on their own to pay for the flowers, except that they wanted fake flowers because they were less expensive. My parents were like no way, if you don't want to pay for real flowers then nevermind, we'll just pay for them. So my in laws relented and paid for the real flowers and then spent the rest of our marriage being resentful and attitude-y towards my parents. I had no stance back then, but looking back I think my in laws were being very petty.

[privategal]

Its your fiance herself Id look closely at. Do you like her attitude about finances and are you comfortable with the way she is communicating and seeing your side and having your back?

These things do matter as the same issues will happen in marriage too so are you speaking up? Are u certain you are ready to marry her after seeing this side?

Also please know you will "marry" her family too so take a closer look and really really be aware and go in with eyes wide open.

[BettyDraper]

My parents were going to pay for the whole wedding but my in laws volunteered on their own to pay for the flowers, except that they wanted fake flowers because they were less expensive. My parents were like no way, if you don't want to pay for real flowers then nevermind, we'll just pay for them. So my in laws relented and paid for the real flowers and then spent the rest of our marriage being resentful and attitude-y towards my parents. I had no stance back then, but looking back I think my in laws were being very petty.

 

I agree and I'm sorry this happened to you. Weddings bring out the crazy in families because weddings symbolize so many things...one of the big indicators being status.

 

My husband and I wanted a wedding but we are happy that we eloped because we didn't have to deal with our families on our special day. Both sides learned that we are a couple who does what WE want.

[BettyDraper]

Its your fiance herself Id look closely at. Do you like her attitude about finances and are you comfortable with the way she is communicating and seeing your side and having your back?

These things do matter as the same issues will happen in marriage too so are you speaking up? Are u certain you are ready to marry her after seeing this side?

Also please know you will "marry" her family too so take a closer look and really really be aware and go in with eyes wide open.

 

This. I don't even know the fiancee and I already find her attitude quite problematic. Couples need to agree on how to handle family interference and finances.

[manny1]

I do worry about this side of my fiancée. She wants a fancy do which will cost a lot of money which I'm not comfortable with. To me I'd rather have a more reasonably priced wedding and have some money as a gift towards a house. For one day to spend a small fortune is not worth it in my eyes. Whenever I try to bring my view up its met with arguments as it goes against her and her family's dream wedding. They have offered to subsidise whatever share my parents can't afford but my parents have their own feelings and do not want to accept money from others as they have their pride. It seems that they do not understand this and believe that they should give their daughter the best regardless of how it makes me or my family feel. They've argued with me saying that didn't I know what would be expected of wedding arrangements when I was dating their daughter. It makes me wonder what other expectations they have.

My fiancée has her own mind but I find that she'll most times side with her parents or not want to make any decisions and leave it up to her parents.

I'm slowly losing respect for my in laws as on the one hand they act like this and then switch and act very nice so I find it hard to trust them. They've taken what should have been a happy time for me and ruined it. It's making me question my feelings for her. I've tried talking but it always ends the same with us arguing and no compromises on anything.

Edited January 3, 2016 by manny1

[BettyDraper]

I do worry about this side of my fiancée. She wants a fancy do which will cost a lot of money which I'm not comfortable with. To me I'd rather have a more reasonably priced wedding and have some money as a gift towards a house. For one day to spend a small fortune is not worth it in my eyes. Whenever I try to bring my view up its met with arguments as it goes against her and her family's dream wedding. They have offered to subsidise whatever share my parents can't afford but my parents have their own feelings and do not want to accept money from others as they have their pride. It seems that they do not understand this and believe that they should give their daughter the best regardless of how it makes me or my family feel. They've argued with me saying that didn't I know what would be expected of wedding arrangements when I was dating their daughter. It makes me wonder what other expectations they have.

My fiancée has her own mind but I find that she'll most times side with her parents or not want to make any decisions and leave it up to her parents.

I'm slowly losing respect for my in laws as on the one hand they act like this and then switch and act very nice so I find it hard to trust them. They've taken what should have been a happy time for me and ruined it. It's making me question my feelings for her. I've tried talking but it always ends the same with us arguing and no compromises on anything.

 

I can relate to feeling like your in-laws have ruined a happy time. My mother cast a pall over my engagement with her behavior.

 

If your fiancee can't even compromise on a special event, that doesn't bode well for your marriage. It also sounds like you have different financial priorities; you come across as more mature than she is when it comes to money. Have you thought of putting the wedding on hold until you're more comfortable? I couldn't marry someone who thought like your fiance but I realize that you may not think the same way as me.

[Anderlie]

You guys have only been together a year, it's supposed to take two for the real person to emerge from the honeymoon period - use this time before the wedding wisely as I think you have inadvertently accelerated the process.