Why the wait

[Chrissy1961]

My partner has asked me to marry him. He wanted to declare his intentions towards our relationship but said we would sit down on our anniversary date in February to discuss it and become engaged. Divorced 2 years he said of he hadn't been married to that woman he would have got down on bended knee with a ring already. He asks me where I want to live, etc. I won't answer as I feel he is spending the next 4 months being selfish in trying to work out if my thoughts parallel his. Isn't love about compromise. When you want to marry someone why use a time frame to get engaged. I feel

Like he is keeping me suspended with a promise that may not develop. Am

I wrong to think these things?

[Diezel]

He's divorced. Don't you think that's a good reason for him to be apprehensive about jumping into the next marriage?

Edited October 7, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed mean comment

[Chrissy1961]

I too am divorced but love is love. I contracted a house for my security and he knows that if the sale goes through i have another 13 months in which i am legally required to reside there. He has his own home. He's talking possible engagement in February and married soon after. His non commiting current reasoning leaves me in limbo for 5 months and not knowing which way to go. If he committed now I could work out my home and work future. As it stands he thinks I can just change my life in 5 months to suit him then. I simply have a discussion about possibilities but nothing concrete to plan my life decisions.

[Mascara]

I don't get his logic. An engagement simply means you intend to get married. You can't intend to intend to get married. I'm always puzzled when people say things like "we're getting engaged on my birthday". Umm if you've agreed to get married, then surely you're already engaged?

 

This feels like he's edging for time if he's already asked but says you're not engaged. If he wants to get married soon after the "engagement", why not just be "engaged" now but have a longer preparation period for the wedding.

[The Like Fairy]

My partner has asked me to marry him. He wanted to declare his intentions towards our relationship but said we would sit down on our anniversary date in February to discuss it and become engaged.

 

Divorced 2 years he said of he hadn't been married to that woman he would have got down on bended knee with a ring already.

 

He asks me where I want to live, etc. I won't answer as I feel he is spending the next 4 months being selfish in trying to work out if my thoughts parallel his. Isn't love about compromise. When you want to marry someone why use a time frame to get engaged.

 

I feelLike he is keeping me suspended with a promise that may not develop.

 

Am I wrong to think these things?

 

You are not wrong to think these things. It sounds like he still has unresolved issues from his last marriage, that he needs to work through. Also known as 'baggage'.

 

I suggest you both see a marriage/relationship counselor a few times to talk through what's going on.

 

Here is a link explaining the many benefits and purpose of premarital counseling.

 

Another great article on this subject

 

And another article

 

Barring that, you need to ASSERT YOURSELF here and tell him that this 'limbo' nonsense is very aggravating - particularly when you have just signed a contract to a house for the next 13 months, and yet he is vaguely making plans for some relationship changes to take place in the next 6 months. You guys are out of sync.

 

I personally think he isn't ready to be married again, and is stalling and buying time.

 

Marriage is important- worldwide and universally, since the beginning of time. It is a sign of commitment and security.

 

You have EVERY RIGHT to not want to be in perpetual 'limbo' or even the next 4 months of 'limbo'. Either he wants to get married or he doesn't.

 

Ask him for full discussion and full disclosure regarding everything you mentioned in your two previous posts.

 

I can recommend another smart investment of your time regarding intentions of getting married.

 

Dave Ramsey has a Financial Peace University course for couples planning to get married. Dave Ramsey is a very famous money advisor and works with couples especially.

 

It is a 9 week course that insures both parties are on the same page regarding finances. His course is top notch bar none. Please look into it. Catholic churches also tend to have premarital counseling courses, I'm sure other religious organizations may as well.

 

The top reasons people get divorced are disagreements regarding money, sex, children, religion, inlaws, infidelity, physical or emotional abuse, and substance or alcohol abuse.

 

Work this out, and the odds are in your favor that your marriage will be solid. Good luck!

[Chrissy1961]

Thank you "mascara and the like fairy" for posting comments. You both make sense.

 

I told him last night that I didn't think it fair for him to leave me in limbo until February and to tell me that he had searched for an engagement ring a month ago but bought me earrings instead. I told him it feels like I did something wrong for him to change his mind, only to ask me with a February date set to sit and discuss it in detail. Yet he keeps asking me where I want to

Live and that he will sell his house and combine finances to rebuy. All the while I have a contract looming.

 

I told him I feel in limbo and I just want to go back to the relationship we have and if we ever get engaged it should be decided and done in one hit instead of this promise of limbo. I got the following response.

 

"Wow !!!!

This certainly wasn't what I expected when I set out to try tell you how I felt,

I certainly didn't want to stress you or ever question our relationship.

Ok I now see your point and must apologise as I didn't think about it from that angle. We do have a beautiful relationship and I Love you dearly xx".

 

I don't believe that he is ready to get married. I believe he is worried that I may walk away and through his own insecurities is using a potential engagement as a means to hold me when it is not necessary. He is not over his marriage I agree, he stays in contact with "their" friends so he has good knowledge of her current life. I refuse to go to activities with them as she is present. I don't need to see him wearing his best shirt and preening himself and wearing sad eyes. I just want to love him, two people in this relationship, marriage not being my current agenda until he is totally committed to our relationship. I'm beginning to feel second best, second choice

[evanescentworld]

I think you need counselling, if only to teach him how to close one book and open the new one... he can't straddle both camps. He either needs to work on getting over his past, and insecurities, or he's going to lose you....

[Diezel]

I think something is missing to this story.

 

Either way, you do your life and don't wait for him. If you are in limbo, it's only because you are keeping yourself there. You do have choices you can make on your own.

[Chrissy1961]

Honesty from his side is what's missing in this story. His logic is one sided. And yes I do have choices and the way I feel at the moment I'd be a whole lot happier without his insecurities in my life. ))

[Chrissy1961]

Well our anniversary has passed. It was the date for us to get engaged supposedly. 4 months ago he spoke of introducing our adult children to each other yet to date none of my boys have met his family. He says our money is one big pool as a couple so it doesn't matter if he pays for things like my petrol and clothes. He wants us to buy a business. If the guy can't marry me I'm not making my money "our pool". He loves me but fear stands in his way and I'm just about over it all. We aren't married, not engaged, nor do we live together.... It is all talk.

[elaine567]

You knew in October it was a stalling tactic and you have been proven to be correct.

He, for some reason doesn't want to make this official. You need some honesty from him. Do not accept that "he loves me but it is just fear". B***s*** .

That is just you assuming stuff to make you feel better.

He will have reasons, he is just not being forthcoming with them.

Any man that truly wants to marry a woman, makes his intentions very plain.

 

Is it his adult children? Maybe they are opposed your relationship, hence why none of your family have met his family.

Is it that he doesn't want to get married again?

Is he still grieving for his ex?

Is it you? Are you not the person, he ever saw himself marrying?

 

I don't know the reason(s) here, but unless you want to hang on indefinitely as a "gf in the dark", then you need to find out why and then take appropriate action. Do not be the "rebound" waiting in in the wings for years and then you find two months after you split, he marries someone else: it happens.

 

Be very wary of "the pool", even if you do manage to get him to marry you. I would keep your money completely separate from him and have a joint account for bill paying, that you both pay into.

Personally, I would not be putting any big sums in, until you can see some good return from such a business.

Make sure you make any business transactions legal too, so that if you do split or he is just taking you for a ride, you can get your money back.

Be aware, he may have targeted you as the wealthy divorcee. Has he any experience in business?

[TigerCub]

If you guys aren't even living together or engaged - definitely DO NOT pool your money together.

 

I don't get how your families have not met (especially your kids) and you guys are talking engagement.

 

It doesn't sounds like you're that far along in this relationship to be considering marriage.

 

And on top of that he's stalling on the meeting, and now he wants to pool your money together so that he can open a business - sounds more like a scam.

 

be careful.

[preraph]

Sounds to me like he's just looking for a business partner at this point. He's giving no import to your financial decisions. Did you contract for that house? I think you either need to put him on hold and make decisions without considering him in your future, or you need to put the house on hold and wait and see. The bigger issue is do you want to spend the rest of your life trying to figure out what this guy is thinking.

[BlackHat]

He asks me where I want to live, etc. I won't answer as I feel he is spending the next 4 months being selfish in trying to work out if my thoughts parallel his. Isn't love about compromise. When you want to marry someone why use a time frame to get engaged. I feel

Like he is keeping me suspended with a promise that may not develop. Am

I wrong to think these things?

 

Yes and not.

 

Let's make one thing absolutely clear: LOVE IS NOT ABOUT COMPROMISE.

 

Consider the following: You like football and hate baseball. Your boyfriend loves baseball and hates football. Because you "compromise" you end up doing things you hate to make him happy, and he does things he hates to make you happy.

 

Question: Wouldn't it be easier for you to find a boyfriend who likes the same things as you do and hates the same things as you do?

 

Of course, we can adapt in small things, but compromise is the beginning of a nasty divorce.

 

Your boyfriend has clearly learned his lesson with his ex and he wants to do the right thing this time. Marriage is a contract for life, and as such must be carefully planned. Would you buy a house and get into a mortgage without proper planning? Well, a marriage is much more important than that.

 

On top of that, he is very intelligent by using the engagement time to make sure that everything is parallel as it should be. Say you want to live in NY and he wants to live in CA, so you prefer to marry first, and get into the big fights later, right?

 

WRONG.

 

Just follow his lead because he clearly knows what he is doing.

[Chrissy1961]

Answering a few questions. He has diplomas in business management however has never run his own business and always worked as a consultant, not in a managerial position. I didn't buy my house, I have been ill and off sick leave for 5 months so put that financial burden on hold. My money is safely tucked away in my own bank account and I won't be buying a business with him.

 

His children range from 20 to 27 years of age. Mine are 21 to 32. All adults however he is a helicopter parent with all 4 of his kids. Two are dysfunctional dole bludging drug addicts and he feels his breakdown of his last marriage (not their natural mother) contributed to their delinquency and he needs to smother them and make their world perfect. Both severely disrupted his marriage, broke house rules etc and were asked to move back with their mother. He feels so insecure about whether or not his kids love him or blame him that he spends his life fluttering around to their every whim. He is so frightened of losing their love that he can't live his own life.

 

He proposed 5 weeks ago on bended knee with a ring. Only after our anniversary date had been and gone and I had started to go my own way, away from him. I suppose he realized that he was losing me. I accepted thinking things would change but....

Our children all ranging from 20 to 32 have not met still.

It took him a month to tell his children as he said he had to find the right moment. Omg most people would not be able to contain it.

People ask when we are getting married and he avoids the subject.

He has not given any time frame nor discussed dates with me.

 

Will I marry him? No. He lives in the aftermath of his last marriage breakdown still. She left him because he always put his kids before his marriage. He is still insecure about his kids. My 3 sons are all hardworking adjusted adults because I let them fall, pick themselves up and start over again. I get frequent messages from my sons thanking me for what I have taught them, for loving them always, unconditionally. I had to be able to say that if I left this earth tomorrow my job was done and my sons would continue being responsible and accountable. This man I see has not learnt to let go. I come second in his thoughts and I clearly have to always consider his kids every whim and whinge. My sons say "if mum is happy we are happy. We have our lives so why shouldn't mum. We have no right to interfere". But this man thinks, "if my kids aren't happy with what I want to do, them i won't do it".

 

So all these months of pussy footing around is as a result of his insecurities. A father who can't let his children be adults, a partner who can't be happy without fear his kids will disapprove. I give up with trying, he's a lost cause.

[elaine567]

So all these months of pussy footing around is as a result of his insecurities. A father who can't let his children be adults, a partner who can't be happy without fear his kids will disapprove. I give up with trying, he's a lost cause.

 

Yes, your life is sorted, you have your ducks in a row and will always have your ducks in a row, no matter what life throws at you.

He is only going to cause hassle and bring chaos into your life, for very little gain.

[Chrissy1961]

Yes and not.

 

Let's make one thing absolutely clear: LOVE IS NOT ABOUT COMPROMISE.

 

Consider the following: You like football and hate baseball. Your boyfriend loves baseball and hates football. Because you "compromise" you end up doing things you hate to make him happy, and he does things he hates to make you happy.

 

Question: Wouldn't it be easier for you to find a boyfriend who likes the same things as you do and hates the same things as you do?

 

Of course, we can adapt in small things, but compromise is the beginning of a nasty divorce.

 

Your boyfriend has clearly learned his lesson with his ex and he wants to do the right thing this time. Marriage is a contract for life, and as such must be carefully planned. Would you buy a house and get into a mortgage without proper planning? Well, a marriage is much more important than that.

 

On top of that, he is very intelligent by using the engagement time to make sure that everything is parallel as it should be. Say you want to live in NY and he wants to live in CA, so you prefer to marry first, and get into the big fights later, right?

 

WRONG.

 

Just follow his lead because he clearly knows what he is doing.[/quote

 

 

Unfortunately I have to disagree. Relationships require comprise. We cannot agree 100 percent of the time on all subjects and decisions so compromise out of respect for the other half of a couple is required. It is not possible to find a partner who totally agrees and likes all that their mate likes. I was happily married for 28 years until an accident took my life partner from me, major depression changed him. Together over the 28 years we compromised on disputed topics and always found a happy medium. Inability to compromise leads to selfishness.

 

As far as following his lead...pfff.... If he knew what he was doing I would be happy to. He doesn't know what side of the bed to get out of literally. He's trying to juggle his children and partner in two separate lives. My sons have never been invited to his home, he's frightened if his kids turn up that they will become jealous... Quoting his words. Do I want to follow his lead and be an insecure, helicopter parent who aides and abets delinquent kids by not making them stand on their own feet? He is using this time to work out if his kids accept us being married or whether he feels he is betraying them by marrying me. I can see why his last wife walked away. Her words "your kids will always come first". He doesn't discuss where we will live. He lives 5 mins away from each of his kids, his insecurity won't let him move. He isn't working out if I am right for him, he's working out if his kids will feel betrayed. We went overseas last year and all he thinks about is how he can even the score with his youngest because he feels he owes her a holiday now. Meh, he's got issues.

[Chrissy1961]

It was his birthday yesterday. We had arranged for him to come to my place. His children, as at the day before, had not arranged anything for him. I ordered a special cake, made a booking at a nice restaurant and was taking the cake over on the day for the waiter to bring out with sparkler as a surprise. The evening before his birthday he was standing in my kitchen when I arrived home. I had just read a message from his eldest daughter saying she was having dinner at her place the night of his birthday and asking me to attend. It was kind Of her to ask and I appreciate my inclusion. However, he made no apology for the change. Could have said "do you mind, i would like us to go there". All he said was "it was nice of her to ask you". She had asked him what his plans were and he had told her he was spending it over my side of town. He gave me no thought, no consideration. Had he discussed it with me I would have fallen into line with his wishes. It was the way my plans were discarded without thought. I couldn't go over last night, I had an appointment late Arvo and the trip over would have made me late for dinner. So I cancelled the dinner booking and ate his cake alone. We have a dinner out with all his kids planned for tomorrow night as a birthday celebration. So, he bumps me to the side whenever his kids want anything. I know it was his special day, but I had gone to effort and expense and was dropped like a hot cake, without any thought.

 

It happened before. Asked one night if I wanted to go to the markets the following morning. I said " lets sleep in and go out for brekkie, my shout". There was nothing we needed at the markets. 7am the following morning his eldest daughter walks through the house and wakes us up to go to the markets. He had texted her the day before and asked her to go. She had agreed, then he asked me without telling me about her. Maybe right or wrong, I told him his obligation was to go with her as he had arranged it prior. I did not want to look the ogre. But, I was unhappy about him hiding the arrangement and it being sprung on me. I went out myself, stayed gone the whole day and had my own fun, long after he had arrived back home to an empty house. Sounds terrible, but it was the best I could do to stop from exploding. I'm sure if he could he would marry his daughters, sex excluded as he isn't incestuous.

 

I'm venting, it helps.

[stillafool]

My partner has asked me to marry him. He wanted to declare his intentions towards our relationship but said we would sit down on our anniversary date in February to discuss it and become engaged. Divorced 2 years he said of he hadn't been married to that woman he would have got down on bended knee with a ring already. He asks me where I want to live, etc. I won't answer as I feel he is spending the next 4 months being selfish in trying to work out if my thoughts parallel his. Isn't love about compromise. When you want to marry someone why use a time frame to get engaged. I feel

Like he is keeping me suspended with a promise that may not develop. Am

I wrong to think these things?

 

Did you ask him why the wait? What did he say?

[Chrissy1961]

His words recently about why he waited to ask. "I had to make sure my youngest daughter didn't feel left out. Now she has a boyfriend she won't be so jealous I hope".

[Chrissy1961]

Do I love this man. Yes, but lately since getting engaged and seeing how he had to approach his kids with the news has appalled me. They are adults and don't have any right to persuade his life choices nor should he feel guilty or any betrayal of them. I don't look at him with the love I once had... It is diminishing as I bear witness to events. I guess my respect is faultering as I see a weak man beside me. It all hurts when I should let it go completely.

[Chrissy1961]

Sitting this morning fretting after a sleepless night. Do I play hard ball and give him a taste of his own medicine to see if he wakes up to himself? Do I start putting my kids first, changing my plans with him when my kids say jump? If I talk to him about it he will say that I am just like his xwife and past girlfriends. He thinks he has this ultra special relationship with his kids, it seems ever so important to him that he is constantly reassured that they love and need him. He's insecure, not a cheater or liar, he just can't let go. Every single conversation with them ends with "I love you sweetie". Texts have multiple kisses. The norm for many people but extreme on a daily basis. He's skipped out on an engagement lunch today with my mother because he wants to drive his daughter to an appointment because he feels she can't afford petrol. If she didn't spend every cent on smokes and drugs she would be independent. She abused him and became violent a few months ago, she moved out. He feels guilty, that his marriage breakdown when she was 16 messed her up, yet she was a druggie and disruptive long before. So now they spend sessions in counseling with her crying and saying she wants him to really feel her pain and how she felt discarded because he married a woman who had house rules and couldn't tolerate her misbehavior. 20 years old, never worked, says she's depressed and unloved. Suck it up princess. Best of all I just got a call to say that's she's ditched on their appointment today. Am I available? Not in your sweet bippy. Any hope for him ? Have I exhausted all avenues before I walk away?

[isolatedgothic]

I have to wonder if *you* would feel better if you could just break things off, walk away, and live life for you. Right now, I see that your guy is all wrapped up in his kids and what they are doing, and I see that you are all wrapped up in what he is doing, and everyone is concerned with what everyone else is doing, and nobody is concerned with what they themselves are doing.

 

Can you step back for a moment and envision life without this chaos in it? I know that you love him and have an idea in your head of what you want life to look like with him, but the reality is that he cannot give you what you want.

 

I think you want a man who loves his kids, but has healthy boundaries. I think you want a man who makes you feel valued, respected and loved. I don't see that this man has the ability to give that to you. I don't think you are going to be happy in this relationship. You love Fantasy Man -the man you need this guy to be - and he cannot be this guy. It just isn't in him.

 

He pretends to be Fantasy Man every now and then, and it gets your hopes up, but then he fails. He is who he is, right now in this moment. That isn't enough for you. That is okay, too. It is okay to admit he isn't enough for you, and he isn't meeting your deep seated needs.

 

I wonder what would happen if you could say goodbye, close the book, and move on. I wonder how you would feel each day if you woke up and knew that this man and his kids were no longer a part of your story, but that you are the story now. I wonder if, in time, you found a real sense of peace restored that has been taken from you through the chaos of this man and his smothering devotion to his kids.

 

You really cannot control anyone except yourself. It's a shame he cannot learn this, but I strongly believe that you can.

[Chrissy1961]

Very wise words isolatedgothic. So true on all accounts and I see validity regarding my future. Thank you

[georgia girl]

Chrissy,

 

 

It's hard for us all to know because we don't live your life and we don't see what the two of you do together and how you treat each other on a daily basis. However, in your last two posts I sense real anger at his children. Is that true? And if so, how would YOU reconcile it? Not what should he do to alleviate your anger, but how can you reconcile it?

 

 

The reason that I ask is because you two are blending families and even if you don't have children together, you both are still parents with what appears differing parenting styles. The top three reasons for divorce are money, parenting styles and fidelity. If you yourself and the two of you as a couple can't reconcile your parenting styles - even with grown children - you're setting yourself up for a lot of heartache and a much higher risk of divorce.

 

 

For example with the birthday story, I think it's really sweet that his daughter decided to do something. I'm sure that was so incredibly validating for him, particularly if the other daughter is struggling. And genuinely, outside of the disruption in your plans for dinner, what was the rub? You were still going out so you didn't have to cook, she included you in the plans and you could have taken the cake to her house. In that instance - and again, I don't know how many bricks went into the wall before the birthday dinner invitation arose - you seemed to me a bit inflexible. I can also say that I'm in my 40's. I tell my family I love you when I get off the phone. Is it silly? Yes. Will it be the last thing they heard if something awful happens? Yes. That's why I do it. I also would have expected and respected him to tell his children he plans on getting married to seek their blessing. That's what we all do when we get married. It doesn't change your mind if your love ones disagree, but it sets the stage for the inclusion of all parties in what should be an affirming live event.

 

 

It feels like I'm judging you for your feelings and I'm sorry. I don't wat to do that. Instead, I think that his children and his parenting style are real, significant issues for you. I'm not sure if its because you believe he's not putting your relationship first? Or because you have a different relationship with your children and you see his parenting style as incorrect?

 

 

I actually think the two of you should attend counseling together as you prepare to decide about marriage. In a very controlled environment, I think you should express your anger, your fears and your disappointments. I think you may be surprised to hear his as well. If you're this unhappy and he has doubts about marriage, I think he may have a lot of anger, fear and resentment himself. In the end, I think you may come out of this a much stronger couple with a shared sense of purpose.

 

 

Good luck to you. I hope it all works out.