My boyfriends alternative to a wedding

[NattieAttack]

So I am one of those girls who's been waiting and waiting, dropping hints and pushing for a proposal. Sadly I haven't got one yet for months of waiting. I finally confronted my boyfriend why won't he propose, we have been dating for almost 3 years (next month is our anniversary).

 

His response was negative. I actually recorded it as a friend suggested, if he said I will get around to it, I have proof he said that and to confront him if nothing happens. so I'll put the conversation up

 

Me: Why won't you propose to me, it's been almost 3 years, what is wrong with me that you aren't proposing?

Him: Nothing is wrong with you, but why do you want a proposal?

Me: Every girl dreams of getting married, its a milestone in any girls life, if there is nothing wrong then why haven't you proposed?

Him: I don't believe Marriage is a strong concept?

Me: What do you mean?

Him: Ok...Marriage if you look at it...was used for strengthening a family, royalty married to keep an empire strong by gaining more land and stuff. So Marriage is a tool.

Me: It isn't a tool! It is a commitment between two people who love each other

Him: Let me finish, Marriage is also used between two people, for women it was having a man who would stay with them and protect them, because men wanted to pass his genes down to a new generation, so women were used years ago for child baring, men had to be in a monogamist relationship to make sure the women carrying his child, carried his child and no one elses. So women married as virgins, you have the wedding night where both men and women were virgins and have sex, the sheets were checked to see if the woman bled from sex. So my point is, we've had sex, we've taken that away from the concept of marriage, the intimacy factor is gone. Secondly, in a marriage, you make a commitment, a vow to a public of witnesses to be there for the woman regardless of what life throws at you, sickness, poverty, whatever happens, the man stays around for the woman and viceversa.

Me: So what is your point? You won't marry me because we've had sex?

Him: I didn't say that, I just think we don't need to get married. All we can get from that is the commitment, the vows to be there for each other, So...If you want to make that commitment, I am happy to, I do love you but there is no reason to go through the marriage process because it's not applicable, we can just make a commitment in front of people we know and love to be there, so you have the commitment, isn't that enough?

Me: No, it's not enough

Him: So you want me to shell out a ****load of cash for a wedding? Is that it?

Me: No, I just think that saying we'll be there for each other should be done traditionally, we can have a small wedding, so we don't spend too much

Him: You want the commitment from marriage? I can give you that, we don't need to be sheep and follow the herd. I had a feeling you wouldn't want the commitment

Me: What is that supposed to mean?

Him: Well my option says alot about the girl, if she went along with it, she doesn't care about the wedding or following the herd, she will make that commitment because she loves you. Your showing me that you want money, money wedding, why isn't the commitment enough?

 

At that point I got up and left as I couldn't reason with him.

 

I've had time to think and I don't know what to do, he basically said he won't have a wedding right? He only wants to do a speech and make our vows..

 

Am I wrong?

Do I go along with this, I am not money minded, is this a good or bad idea?

Who do you agree with?

Please offer me some advice

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

I think that he has given you some very strong, well-thought out reasons for not wanting to do a wedding. Now you should do the same. Lay out your reasoning and make it solid enough so that he may want to compromise, if for no other reason than to make you happy. You need to make your points just as strong as his and not just "because I want it". In the end, his level of commitment and love towards you will mean much more than the legal document. Just my opinion...

[carrie_o]

You aren't wrong. You want a wedding. You shouldn't feel bad about that. Is there a way to compromise? Could you do a courthouse wedding? Or elope?

 

Personally, I did the courthouse wedding. We got the wedding out of the way as quickly and inexpensively as we could so we could enjoy the marriage.

[NattieAttack]

You aren't wrong. You want a wedding. You shouldn't feel bad about that. Is there a way to compromise? Could you do a courthouse wedding? Or elope?

 

Personally, I did the courthouse wedding. We got the wedding out of the way as quickly and inexpensively as we could so we could enjoy the marriage.

 

I'm not sure, after what he said, I got the impression there is no compromise. I just don't know what to say to him, when he said all this, all I heard was "I don't want a wedding, no wedding". I want to do the traditions, throwing the bouquet, first dance, dad walking down the aisle with me. I just feel like withholding sex because after what he said, I feel like he is blaming me for having sex with him and that is why he won't. Would that work?

[iris219]

I'm not sure, after what he said, I got the impression there is no compromise. I just don't know what to say to him, when he said all this, all I heard was "I don't want a wedding, no wedding". I want to do the traditions, throwing the bouquet, first dance, dad walking down the aisle with me. I just feel like withholding sex because after what he said, I feel like he is blaming me for having sex with him and that is why he won't. Would that work?

 

There's nothing wrong with wanting a wedding, but it sounds like you're uncompromising too.

 

What if he agreed to get married at the courthouse?

[carrie_o]

I just feel like withholding sex because after what he said, I feel like he is blaming me for having sex with him and that is why he won't. Would that work?

 

I'm pretty sure that won't work. Sex should not be a weapon. It should be a physical representation for the love that you feel for him. As long as you still love him and you know that he loves you, don't hold back. It will only cause resentment.

 

The impression I got was that he hates the traditional roots of the wedding. He mentioned that he would be ok with making the commitment. What did he mean by that? Does he want the marriage without the pageantry of a wedding?

[sterlingarcher]

What difference does it make to you if you agree to what he is proposing, which is making vows in front of other people?

 

Do some thinking and find out what a wedding and marriage means to you, other than being a dream. Why is it a dream?

[NattieAttack]

I'm pretty sure that won't work. Sex should not be a weapon. It should be a physical representation for the love that you feel for him. As long as you still love him and you know that he loves you, don't hold back. It will only cause resentment.

 

The impression I got was that he hates the traditional roots of the wedding. He mentioned that he would be ok with making the commitment. What did he mean by that? Does he want the marriage without the pageantry of a wedding?

 

It isn't getting married, we wouldn't be legally married, all he said was he would make the vows publically, he wouldn't legally be a husband & I wouldn't be a wife, there wouldn't be a marriage, just the commitment part we make publically.

[todreaminblue]

to em the wedding is a way to stand in front of god and say yep this is for life.....sickness health wealth or dirt poor poverty good times and bad...i dotn need a wedding to do that commitment.......but vows an standing before god and someone who is legal to join two people together yes..i am not a money girl either........i am however a committed partner and if the person i am with si the same he would want to make it official......i have never married ...but my heart has been just nto officially and the desire and commitment of course was one sided and all me.....i am tired of that....as my father said to me once....why buy th ecow when can have the milk for free....he was right.....i was the cow......not once but twice....twice engaged...broken promise and not from me.......i dont break...my father also told me no one would marry me i was worthless blah blah(i used to tune out when that stuff started to be said).........i dont believe that......i just think my worth isnt obvious till they have to say goodbye then they realize.....too late..a wedding isnt important ...if commitment isnt there mutually to go beyond the wedding and all the years after....its just another day then.........deb

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

It isn't getting married, we wouldn't be legally married, all he said was he would make the vows publically, he wouldn't legally be a husband & I wouldn't be a wife, there wouldn't be a marriage, just the commitment part we make publically.

 

Then after 3 years, you need to decide if this is something you can accept - never being "legally" married, because it doesn't sound like this is something he's willing to do. Withholding sex will get you nowhere except reinforce what he already believes to be your shallow perspective on marriage and commitment.

[TAV]

Marriage is also about compromise and working through your differences. You got up and left when he did not tell you what you wanted to hear. And now you are thinking about withholding sex to get your way???

 

Why are you here, asking us if he wants a wedding or not? Why are you not discussing this with him? He says he wants to commit to you but does not like the fact that getting married in the traditional way is bound to push him into all sort of rituals and spending money recklessly. You act as if he told you that you are only good enough to have sex and not wife material. I think he said no such thing.

 

Is this about not losing face in front of your friends or really about what you and him mean to each other? Try to work it out. Together!

[clia]

It sounds to me like he doesn't want to get married. Whether the reasons he gave you are the full and complete reasons behind why he feels that way is unknown.

 

He is willing to have a commitment ceremony with you in front of your friends and family, but he does not want to be legally bound to you. I don't think this is about the cost of the wedding, either; I think he through that out there as an afterthought.

 

If you truly want to try to convince him to marry you, you need to come up with something better than this:

 

Me: Every girl dreams of getting married, its a milestone in any girls life, if there is nothing wrong then why haven't you proposed?

 

Explanations like this do indeed make it sound like you are more interested in the wedding than the marriage.

 

That said, you may need to start accepting that if you stay with him, you may never have a wedding. If you truly want to have a traditional wedding and get married, you may have to end the relationship and find someone else.

[carrie_o]

So why not do the public vows? You should discuss with him so you can both agree to the wedding of your dreams (or as close as you can agree on) while not being involved in the legal aspect of marriage.

 

Have you tried pointing out the benefits of marriage? Maybe he'll respond better to a more logical argument. Marriage could possibly save you money on health care and taxes.

 

You should also look up the common law marriage rules for your area. You will eventually get married that way as long as you live together.

[CarrieT]

Sounds like he has stated his ground and that involves not being married.

 

If you want a marriage, you should find someone who shares those views.

 

Personally, I would not have waited three years to have a discussion about view on marriage...

[Miss Awesome]

So I am one of those girls who's been waiting and waiting, dropping hints and pushing for a proposal. Sadly I haven't got one yet for months of waiting. I finally confronted my boyfriend why won't he propose, we have been dating for almost 3 years (next month is our anniversary).

 

His response was negative. I actually recorded it as a friend suggested, if he said I will get around to it, I have proof he said that and to confront him if nothing happens. so I'll put the conversation up

 

Me: Why won't you propose to me, it's been almost 3 years, what is wrong with me that you aren't proposing?

Him: Nothing is wrong with you, but why do you want a proposal?

Me: Every girl dreams of getting married, its a milestone in any girls life, if there is nothing wrong then why haven't you proposed?

Him: I don't believe Marriage is a strong concept?

Me: What do you mean?

Him: Ok...Marriage if you look at it...was used for strengthening a family, royalty married to keep an empire strong by gaining more land and stuff. So Marriage is a tool.

Me: It isn't a tool! It is a commitment between two people who love each other

Him: Let me finish, Marriage is also used between two people, for women it was having a man who would stay with them and protect them, because men wanted to pass his genes down to a new generation, so women were used years ago for child baring, men had to be in a monogamist relationship to make sure the women carrying his child, carried his child and no one elses. So women married as virgins, you have the wedding night where both men and women were virgins and have sex, the sheets were checked to see if the woman bled from sex. So my point is, we've had sex, we've taken that away from the concept of marriage, the intimacy factor is gone. Secondly, in a marriage, you make a commitment, a vow to a public of witnesses to be there for the woman regardless of what life throws at you, sickness, poverty, whatever happens, the man stays around for the woman and viceversa.

Me: So what is your point? You won't marry me because we've had sex?

Him: I didn't say that, I just think we don't need to get married. All we can get from that is the commitment, the vows to be there for each other, So...If you want to make that commitment, I am happy to, I do love you but there is no reason to go through the marriage process because it's not applicable, we can just make a commitment in front of people we know and love to be there, so you have the commitment, isn't that enough?

Me: No, it's not enough

Him: So you want me to shell out a ****load of cash for a wedding? Is that it?

Me: No, I just think that saying we'll be there for each other should be done traditionally, we can have a small wedding, so we don't spend too much

Him: You want the commitment from marriage? I can give you that, we don't need to be sheep and follow the herd. I had a feeling you wouldn't want the commitment

Me: What is that supposed to mean?

Him: Well my option says alot about the girl, if she went along with it, she doesn't care about the wedding or following the herd, she will make that commitment because she loves you. Your showing me that you want money, money wedding, why isn't the commitment enough?

 

At that point I got up and left as I couldn't reason with him.

 

I've had time to think and I don't know what to do, he basically said he won't have a wedding right? He only wants to do a speech and make our vows..

 

Am I wrong?

Do I go along with this, I am not money minded, is this a good or bad idea?

Who do you agree with?

Please offer me some advice

 

 

 

I think his response was negative because you started the conversation in a very confrontational way - you told him twice that something must be wrong with you if he doesn't want to marry you. Basically that's an accusatory statement. And you recorded the conversation so that you can use it against him later if needed. None of that seems to bode very well for good communication and a solid marriage.

 

 

I think you couldn't reason with him because you didn't offer any solid reasons for what you want. If my partner told me he wanted to marry me because marriage is a milestone that every woman wants, I would be skeptical. What kind of reason is that? Marriage is a legal decision. You say his making a public commitment to you isn't enough and that you want a traditional (i.e., legal) ceremony, but again, you haven't given any solid reasons why you want that. Yes, love and a desire to commit must be present in a marriage, but if one of the partners doesn't see the value in a legal marriage, then the one who wants it (i.e., you) needs to have some good reasons to even get the other to consider it.

[Keenly]

What really stood out to me was your bad response to his question about why you wanted a wedding .

 

your response was basically " just becaaue " as in " because I want a wedding , girls want weddings "

 

 

Basically I didn't see you saying you wanted to marry your boyfriend, you just want to get married.

 

 

 

Also, ages? That part is important.

[oldshirt]

Sounds like he has stated his ground and that involves not being married.

 

If you want a marriage, you should find someone who shares those views.

 

Personally, I would not have waited three years to have a discussion about view on marriage...

 

This ^^^^^^^

 

You two have very different views and different values when it comes to marriage. That is just cause to dissolve the relationship and find someone that shares your views and values on marriage.

 

He's already burned up 3 years of your because he's been getting the milk for free. It's time for the cow to grazing in other pastures.

[central]

There are very few tangible benefits to marriage that can't be created via legal documents (e.g., medical power of attorney, financial power of attorney, wills, trusts, etc.). The few that do exist, such as filing taxes jointly, and eventually social security benefits (only advantageous if one earns substantially more than the other over their lives), may be mixed or even negative depending on circumstances. Sometimes spousal health insurance may be a benefit, but that's less of an issue now with domestic partner coverage and "Obamacare".

 

Commitment exists - or not - regardless of marriage. Marriage does not guarantee anything, except legal confrontation in divorce.

 

Basically, you want the symbolism, because you've been conditioned by your upbringing to value it. He does not - he sees marriage as a facade that is pretty meaningless, and he's not wrong. However, neither are you, but maybe you can try to see his perspective before you push for it. Would you be okay with things if you both created all the legal documents that bound you together short of marriage?

[d0nnivain]

I wasted 10 years -- my child bearing years -- on a guy like your BF. Don't be me.

 

He doesn't want to get married & you won't change his mind.

 

Marriage & civil commitment ceremonies convey legal standing that his goofy idea cannot convey.

 

You two want different things. Accept him or get out. There is no third choice.

[man_in_the_box]

Actually your boyfriend makes a number of very good points while you offer very few to none. I think i pretty much share his sentiments on marriage.

 

However I also have to take into account my relationship. My girlfriend does regard marriage as something she would like to have (in contrary to insisting on it). Combined with the realization that the points your bf makes are not actually anti-marriage has made me open to getting married anyway. After all in my specific scenario i think it will bring my partner happiness and subsequently me as well.

 

After all i dont get anything from not marrying regarding these arguments while theres something to gain for the relationship by marrying.

[Emilia]

The fact that you recorded the conversation and got up when he wouldn't come around to your point of view tells me that either you (or both of you) are very young or that you are quite immature. Is it ethical even to record your partner's conversation without his knowledge? Is it just me who has problem with this?

 

Dropping hints for 3 years?

 

I don't think this guy takes you seriously enough anyway. It was all a lot of BS fobbing you off.

[oldshirt]

It really doesn't matter if her BF has valid points or not and it doesn't matter if she is right or wrong.

 

What matters is they have very different beliefs and values on what marriage is and what being married means.

[MissBee]

You guys don't share the same values about marriage.

 

A proposal isn't something you should have to beg, beseech and drop hints about. If you are interested in marriage then pretty early in your relationship you should discuss what commitment means to you and you should have already known whether or not your SO even believes in marriage. Then as the relationship progresses you BOTH would have been moving closer to marriage or not. I am really strongly against the idea that a proposal is some gift a man bestows upon you, but rather, marrying someone is a MUTUAL decision, you discuss this together and make a choice that you see each other as people you want to take that step with, then the ceremonial aspect: proposal, rings, weddings etc can come later. If you are in a relationship where it is one-sided where you are the one pushing for it or sitting around waiting with bated breath but not sure...something is wrong.

 

If in 3 years he's never brought it up, you two have never discussed it etc...and if you have to record your conversations as "evidence" to go back and show him so you can force a proposal out of him...it doesn't bode well.

Edited June 25, 2014 by MissBee

[firmness]

This analogy might not be perfect, but it is close enough in my mind to warrant me putting it out there.

 

Imagine you met a new friend. The coolest, best, most thoughtful friend ever. S/he called you first thing on your birthday, listened to you, cried with you, and drank with you in your times of need. Three years go by and s/he says to you: "You know, I have been wondering something over the years that I have known you - I am an insurance salesman and I wonder if you have thought about your family's security. Do you have insurance?"

 

If someone did this to me I would be absolutely floored. I would be devastated - that I trusted them and thought they liked me for ME, and not for my stream of premium payments. That is was all a game to get me to this point. I would look back and think about all the "hints" that I missed. I know that everyone does business. I know s/he has to make money. I know this is his/her dream career. But I would be very deeply sad at this manipulation.

 

That is how I feel when I read stories like this. Like the whole relationship is a scam. A leadup to a manipulation, a coercion, a "pressure" to marry - to achieve a status a ring or a dress.

 

It is made all the more horrible when others chime in with "If he doesn't give you the status you are seeking, then dump him and move on to another guy. He just doesn't get it." That sounds like "If he doesn't sign the insurance policy, dump him and move on to another target. He just doesn't get it"

 

I hope this guy does the sane thing and cries his eyes out at this duplicitous and horrible betrayal of trust. Sadly, he (like many men) are so used to this sort of thing, we hardly blink any more! Wow. Think about that! What that says about us as humans, about the nature of men, and about the nature of women.

 

The good news is that he is standing up for what is right and good. He wants a relationship -not a status. He should find a woman who wants to put the love, intimacy, trust and partnership before some status/ring/ceremony.

 

These sorts of posts make me so very sad. This is scary that this still happens. So many little babies are devastated by the aftermath of this it is just sickening and so many millions of people feel completely justified in supporting this behavior.

 

Sad indeed.

[MissBee]

This analogy might not be perfect, but it is close enough in my mind to warrant me putting it out there.

 

Imagine you met a new friend. The coolest, best, most thoughtful friend ever. S/he called you first thing on your birthday, listened to you, cried with you, and drank with you in your times of need. Three years go by and s/he says to you: "You know, I have been wondering something over the years that I have known you - I am an insurance salesman and I wonder if you have thought about your family's security. Do you have insurance?"

 

If someone did this to me I would be absolutely floored. I would be devastated - that I trusted them and thought they liked me for ME, and not for my stream of premium payments. That is was all a game to get me to this point. I would look back and think about all the "hints" that I missed. I know that everyone does business. I know s/he has to make money. I know this is his/her dream career. But I would be very deeply sad at this manipulation.

 

That is how I feel when I read stories like this. Like the whole relationship is a scam. A leadup to a manipulation, a coercion, a "pressure" to marry - to achieve a status a ring or a dress.

 

It is made all the more horrible when others chime in with "If he doesn't give you the status you are seeking, then dump him and move on to another guy. He just doesn't get it." That sounds like "If he doesn't sign the insurance policy, dump him and move on to another target. He just doesn't get it"

 

I hope this guy does the sane thing and cries his eyes out at this duplicitous and horrible betrayal of trust. Sadly, he (like many men) are so used to this sort of thing, we hardly blink any more! Wow. Think about that! What that says about us as humans, about the nature of men, and about the nature of women.

 

The good news is that he is standing up for what is right and good. He wants a relationship -not a status. He should find a woman who wants to put the love, intimacy, trust and partnership before some status/ring/ceremony.

 

These sorts of posts make me so very sad. This is scary that this still happens. So many little babies are devastated by the aftermath of this it is just sickening and so many millions of people feel completely justified in supporting this behavior.

 

Sad indeed.

 

What on earth are you talking about?

 

It's not wrong to want to be married, the point is that at the beginning of any relationship you need to make sure that you and your potential partner have the same ideas about what you want for yourselves...that way it isn't a surprise or seems like manipulation later on. Marriage, having kids, moving in, all these things are big issues that people have different views on and that can make or break a relationship and it is only wise that if you're in a serious relationship you sure away your views on these MAJOR issues early on.

 

If you don't believe in marriage and think it is just about status, cool....make sure to only be with women who agree with this view and don't date someone for 3 years without ever finding this out first, likewise for her, it was foolhardy to know she wanted to be married and date a man for years without ever finding out his views on the topic.