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Engaged for to long! Should I move on?


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My Fiancé and I have been engaged for almost 5 years now, have been together for almost 8. I was completely surprised by the proposal but gladly said yes. We weren't in a rush to make it to the alter, we wanted to buy a home, take our time planning the wedding, and just enjoy being engaged. 7 months after the proposal-Surprise! We were expecting our first baby. We were both excited (not in the plans just yet) and things are moving in the right direction. He bought our first house and we had our daughter in 2009. We decide I would stay at home with her while he works. Getting married took a backseat..fast forward to now. Our daughter is 3, we are more than financially sound, and still NOT married!! Ive really been pressing the issue and it's one excuse or another, I've said we could elope and then those plans suddenly get changed, or he says "nothing changes if we are married, so what's the point" or blames me and says I'm the one who keeps putting it off. (Not true!) Meanwhile, he's pressing the issue of having another child! At this point, I'm completely financially dependent on him, but my name is not on HIS bank account, or on HIS house deed, we have nothing "together" but our daughter. At this point I think he likes playing house with no legal strings attached. I'm almost 29, and feel if he's not going to marry me then I need to move on. Easier said than done, I'd have to start from scratch and force my daughter to come from a broken home. I feel so cheated by him, the promise of a marriage and family and a "happy ever after" in reality is he's made it almost impossible for me to pack up and leave...not by force, I went along with these great ideas too, because I never thought we would NOT be married. He's been a great provider, friend, and father and truly puts me and our daughter first. Except when it comes to getting married. I need to know if he's NEVER going to marry me, even if the truth is painful and could tear our family apart. I deserve to be with someone who is fully committed to me,I've outright asked him if he wants to marry me and of course I hear the same "absolutely" every time. He is upset I've started taking birth control again, which just says to me he wants to have a home, kids, and a "wife" without the full commitment. Please give me your advice, opinions, experience!! This is killing me more and more everyday!!

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You're just going round in circles, because you have said plenty, but done NOTHING to make him see what he would lose, if you walk.

 

The problem is, giving him an active (Active as opposed to Verbal) ultimatum, is coercion - and unless he marries you - because he really sees the point, and truly wants to - then you're on a hiding to nothing.

 

Another lady on this forum - minus the child - is going through the same thing, after 8 years.....

 

I hate this 'broken home' label, truly, I do.

Simply because a couple break up, doesn't mean the home is broken. It could actually be in better shape than before.

I agree - do NOT have a 2nd child with this man.

 

And if you really feel strongly about this, "Go home to mother" or separate yourself from this situation.

He will at least, be responsible for Child Support, even if he has no obligation to you in a committed financial sense.

 

That's the security marriage would have afforded you.

 

Another good reason to refrain from starting a family UNTIL the ring is on.... :rolleyes:

 

But there, what's done is done.

The only way you will resolve this - one way or the other - will be to leave.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

he may see how great his loss is - but only once he's lost you.

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well.. you won't like what I'm gonna say to you... I think you're focusing on this because you have too much free time.

 

Get yourself a job, be less dependent on him financially, don't have a second baby and then you'll see if you actually want to be married to this man.

 

Put yourself in his shoes, for a minute - yes, you are a great mom, yes, you are a great woman to him... but he is financially providing for you. This limits your independence drastically. So start there. How about love? do you love him or is it about him not giving you something that you want.... it is your own deed to have let yourself so dependent on him, not his... now, take some responsibility and focus on another area of your life. if it ain't broken, don't fix it. So focus on something that does need fixin'.

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^^Some good points^^

 

But it's not as simple as being a question of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.

 

It DOES need fixing, because she's the mother of his child - and therefore, being unmarried, this leaves her insecure, both insofar as his obligations to her, and her own well-being as a spouse, are concerned.

 

But you make great points about work, yeah.

Indubitably.

 

:)

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She already is insecure, but she just doesn't realize it yet, because he never withdrew his financial help to her. But he can, potentially, if he wants to - no law preventing him from it.

 

Personally - I appreciate that most people don't think this way - I feel that the only "obligation" a guy has is towards the child, not towards the woman / me. Regardless if I am married or not to the guy. I'm obviously not married and obviously have zero children... anyway, in theory, that's how I feel about the matter.

 

As a working woman, I feel she is highly vulnerable because she has zero income, zero savings and that exposes both herself and her daughter. Marrying the guy is the easy solution to that problem. People should marry for love, not for the children, financial or emotional security or any other reason.

 

Maybe he is reluctant to marriage for that reason as well? I think if you are financially independent, and you have your freedom, and you choose to stay with the same person that you were seeing before that independence... to me that shows commitment and love. Maybe he isn't sure the OP wants to marry him for love... having one, two, three children is no guarantee for love... nor does it mean the man owes anything but love to the woman and sound support to the kids (financial included)

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She already is insecure, but she just doesn't realize it yet, because he never withdrew his financial help to her. But he can, potentially, if he wants to - no law preventing him from it.

 

That's exactly the point I'm making.

Marrying him would cement that relationship. As things stand, she is actually more of a disadvantage than if she DIDN'T have a child.

Without a kid, she could simply up sticks and leave, and make a new life for herself....

Having a child has greatly complicated things and actually made her more vulnerable and dependent.

 

Personally - I appreciate that most people don't think this way - I feel that the only "obligation" a guy has is towards the child, not towards the woman / me. Regardless if I am married or not to the guy. I'm obviously not married and obviously have zero children... anyway, in theory, that's how I feel about the matter.

I see your point - but I would say that once you have children, it does change your slant on things... when you have a man's child, your perception shifts.

 

As a working woman, I feel she is highly vulnerable because she has zero income, zero savings and that exposes both herself and her daughter. Marrying the guy is the easy solution to that problem. People should marry for love, not for the children, financial or emotional security or any other reason.

I'm sure she does love him. I'm sure that the child is a result of a loving union. The sad thing is, they obviously view this union in a different light - and he really doesn't need to do anything towards making her secure because from his PoV he has everything in place the way he wants it. He's riding the cushy car....I don't think we can judge this as solely a remedy she has to provide - although I take your point on her financial independence.

 

 

Maybe he is reluctant to marriage for that reason as well? I think if you are financially independent, and you have your freedom, and you choose to stay with the same person that you were seeing before that independence... to me that shows commitment and love. Maybe he isn't sure the OP wants to marry him for love... having one, two, three children is no guarantee for love... nor does it mean the man owes anything but love to the woman and sound support to the kids (financial included)

 

No, but he's the one pushing for more children, not her.

Again, while I see your point about her trying to gain some outside independence, really, things so far have been engineered his way.

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I think we should agree to disagree, Tara.

 

Is he, who is working, having a professional life and fulfilling personal life having it easy, or is she, who does not have to work for a living, have it easier?

 

He did not engineer anything, they both agreed to this current situation. to the question "who's having the bigger piece of the cake?", I have no idea, only they can answer that question. She knew she put herself in that position and situation, since having that baby and agreeing to be completely financially dependent on him. Maybe she was not 100% aware of it then, like she is now, but yeah... she made a choice. IT is not up to him to pay for her choice.

 

What I am saying is that, in that specific situation, where she has little independence and freedom to choose anything else but her bf - who is also the main provider, can we really talk about proves of love versus those of security? That is my main question. When both partners can both find "bigger and better" alternatives, but choose to stay with each other, yes, I would find that a proof of love.

 

So maybe he would feel more reassured by having a second child - to make extra sure she wouldn't leave, but maintain the status quo... while she already feels disappointed by his not keeping his word. To me, these are big big decisions, big talks... they both have their own fears, so the point is to find the best way - most accommodating way for both of them - to live together.

 

Sometimes, being entirely selfish is the best thing one can do, because this way, one becomes happy and thus, a better partner in that relationship. just sayin'

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Oh I agree to disagree.

I think we agree on more than we disagree....

 

I don't know if you've had children, but I have.

I'm not saying that gives me an advantage, but I can see both sides, because honestly, having a child to nurture, bring up, look after and devote time to, is a very hard job.

 

Our previous Tory Government admitted that if stay-at-home parents were to be paid a living wage for what they do, the country would be bankrupt overnight (Much like it is now! :D)

 

I digress.

 

I'm just thinking maybe getting a job wasn't such an easy option with a child to bring up as well.

While the practicalities are evident, it's not always easy for a functioning mum to secure employment, because other factors have to be considered, such as child-care and transportation....

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ok, you are 100% right there, I know NOTHING about that... I am green with jealousy for you have a beautiful (I am sure) baby :) !

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There is much more to wanting to be married to your partner, the father of your child, than wanting the emotional committment or the security of a relationship.

 

When parents, as a team, decide one will work and one will stay home....that's a huge decision, its an agreement, a plan, like a contract.

 

When you are staying home doing your part as a member of this team , but the working partner has only his name on the assets that in reality belng to the team...that's jut not right.

 

Now, I get that there may be practical reasons for this.

 

And those same practical reasons and logistics are a very very good reason to make your partnership a legal contract by getting married.

 

Now, if you want to just address your contributions to the partnership as well as the security you need to protect yourself and your child in the event your partner should lose his life ....he should be willing to do that.

 

Both of you sit down with a lawyer and ask questions. He should ask " how can I protect my family in the event something happens to me" and you should ask " since I'm the partner staying home, I can protect my share of our income and assets?"

 

You don't have to get married, but you still need a contract. You are parents, you are grown ups.

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It's just a very painful feeling to think that this person I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with has had different intentions the whole relationship. I've been with him since I was 21 years old, we were building a life together (or so I thought). And I feel like I've wasted these years on a fraud. I feel like he's cheated our daughter too. This is the example he wants to set for her? Believe me, I'm doing what I need to to get back into a career. I guess I'm looking for the answers I already know. It enrages me to think that I let it get this far, I never pressured him to propose, that wasn't even on my mind yet!! Ugh, I'm just sick over it. And no it's not because I'm over thinking it or need a job. It's because he asked me to be his wife, and he should have followed through. Now I just resent him for it. Suppose I can be the "angry baby-momma" pretty soon.

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makes totally sense to feel that way, horrible place to be in... I've been there once, I left the guy as soon as I realized he wasn't ready. But did your bf say flat to your face that he does not want to marry you? Did he say why he didn't want to marry you?

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It's just a very painful feeling to think that this person I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with has had different intentions the whole relationship. I've been with him since I was 21 years old, we were building a life together (or so I thought). And I feel like I've wasted these years on a fraud. I feel like he's cheated our daughter too. This is the example he wants to set for her? Believe me, I'm doing what I need to to get back into a career. I guess I'm looking for the answers I already know. It enrages me to think that I let it get this far, I never pressured him to propose, that wasn't even on my mind yet!! Ugh, I'm just sick over it. And no it's not because I'm over thinking it or need a job. It's because he asked me to be his wife, and he should have followed through. Now I just resent him for it. Suppose I can be the "angry baby-momma" pretty soon.

 

I suspect that what candie13 said, about him being afraid you will walk away with 'half of his stuff' [child including] is true ... mostly because i'm a guy, and i was untill recently a member of what is called on this forum 'angry bitter men' who post about women being vile vixens who want to destroy us so as such i did study/think a lot on what can be lost during a D.

 

You might want to speak to a lawyer but if you lived with him for so long, and the house was bought enough time ago, chances are that you two might be considered common-law married.

Most countries have a provision for this.

So speak to a lawyer, but in the meantime get a career and also try to improve communication with him.

 

At some point you and him might be able to salvage this, and if not ... you will be in a better place since this plan is good.

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Sorry, but have you seen the movie about the 5 year engagement? Had to ask.

 

5 years is not an engagement. An engagement to me is when you have a date set, a ring and wedding planning in the works. If you're not planning a wedding or to get married anytime soon...you are not engaged. It's that simple. It's time to move on...

Edited by pink_sugar
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lostindreams

Well i hate to tell you this but i was engaged for 5 years and finally said WHEN are we getting married and he said hes not sure if hes ready or if he will ever be.

 

a few weeks later and he has found a teenager that he is 'in love with' and 'wants to marry'.

 

 

so the answer; YES MOVE ON. RIGHT NOW. if nothing else, break it off, tell him you felt the relaitonship wasnt heading anywhere, Get yourself Independent financially, move in with someone else.

 

it sounds like what my grandma used to say 'why buy the cow when the milk is free?"

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I suspect that what candie13 said, about him being afraid you will walk away with 'half of his stuff' [child including] is true ... mostly because i'm a guy, and i was untill recently a member of what is called on this forum 'angry bitter men' who post about women being vile vixens who want to destroy us so as such i did study/think a lot on what can be lost during a D.

 

You might want to speak to a lawyer but if you lived with him for so long, and the house was bought enough time ago, chances are that you two might be considered common-law married.

Most countries have a provision for this.

So speak to a lawyer, but in the meantime get a career and also try to improve communication with him.

 

At some point you and him might be able to salvage this, and if not ... you will be in a better place since this plan is good.

 

 

Thanks for the input, really interesting to hear a male perspective. I'm sure at this point we would be considered common law. However, I'm not interested in half his stuff. And when it comes to our daughter I know how much she needs her father in her life and vice-versa. I would never try to interfere in that. I tried to convince myself he's a victim of his mother. A terrible vicious person when it comes to men. But I really think it comes down to he just doesn't want to get married....to ME.

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Well i hate to tell you this but i was engaged for 5 years and finally said WHEN are we getting married and he said hes not sure if hes ready or if he will ever be.

 

a few weeks later and he has found a teenager that he is 'in love with' and 'wants to marry'.

 

 

so the answer; YES MOVE ON. RIGHT NOW. if nothing else, break it off, tell him you felt the relaitonship wasnt heading anywhere, Get yourself Independent financially, move in with someone else.

 

it sounds like what my grandma used to say 'why buy the cow when the milk is free?"

 

 

The answer I already "know" just needed someone else to say it!

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makes totally sense to feel that way, horrible place to be in... I've been there once, I left the guy as soon as I realized he wasn't ready. But did your bf say flat to your face that he does not want to marry you? Did he say why he didn't want to marry you?

 

No. He tells me that he wants to marry me. It's just when it comes down to really planning or just eloping, it's always a reason as to why we should wait until a different time, or location. And I'm sick of asking. I shouldn't have to keep bringing it up. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.

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Sorry, but have you seen the movie about the 5 year engagement? Had to ask.

 

5 years is not an engagement. An engagement to me is when you have a date set, a ring and wedding planning in the works. If you're not planning a wedding or to get married anytime soon...you are not engaged. It's that simple. It's time to move on...

 

Yes! We watched it together!! Haha, the funny thing is we moved about 6 months ago from where we were both born and raised and our families are still there. We are about 8 hours away now. We moved for his job. And I'm slowly starting to turn into Jason Segels character! And no, no solid plans, dress, etc. A ring I have. A very very large ring...why go through the trouble?! I just don't get it.

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How difficult for you, I can tell you are suffering greatly because of this marriage issue. I don't really have advice, I have two children with someone to whom I am not married, although he has asked a few times, I am not particularly interested in getting married again. We have been together for nearly 8 years. Both of us were married before, and we were both divorced when we met. I have my own home, and I provide for myself and take care of insurance for our children. I don't share a bank account, we have separate finances, we split the costs of providing for our children and have established legally binding custody agreements via the family court system.

 

It seems like there is some kind of communication issue going on between the two of you since you have, from what I gather, discussed the matter with him and he has merely presented a series of excuses as to why he doesn't want to get married yet. Could this stem from a fundamental difference of what "commitment" means? To me, being committed means waking up every day and choosing to work it out with the same person. Since I have been divorced, the idea of a marriage making a relationship into something committed doesn't really make sense in terms of my experience. But you know, reading about your experience makes me a bit more sensitive to my partner's continued insistence that we get married some day. I just keep putting it off.

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You might want to speak to a lawyer but if you lived with him for so long, and the house was bought enough time ago, chances are that you two might be considered common-law married.

Most countries have a provision for this.

 

I hate to disappoint you, but you're wrong.'Common Law' means absolutely nothing in 'Law'. Certainly in the UK, there is NO provision for such an arrangement.

Each case is evaluated on its own merits, there is no yardstick.

There is, in short, no such thing as a 'common Law' 'marriage'.

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Thanks for the input, really interesting to hear a male perspective. I'm sure at this point we would be considered common law. However, I'm not interested in half his stuff. And when it comes to our daughter I know how much she needs her father in her life and vice-versa. I would never try to interfere in that. I tried to convince myself he's a victim of his mother. A terrible vicious person when it comes to men. But I really think it comes down to he just doesn't want to get married....to ME.

 

It's not about taking his stuff.

It's about being prepared and having a plan.

Having a plan will give you peace of mind and acceptance even if the plan is not implemented.

As a mother you probably have your child's safety foremost in your mind.

Unfortunately you can never guarantee that others see it this way.

 

Your man might be the scared guy i believe him to be, or he might be a selfish SOB who has a need for absolute control of things.

I don't know, and i suspect that not even you know for sure, evidence being this thread.

 

Be prepared, know what your rights are, because worst case scenario you might have to make sure that your daughter does in fact receive some kind of help from her father in live [financial] and half of his assets could provide just that.

Or, if you get kicked out of 'his' house, you as you plainfully put it will have nothing.

 

In the end, your post here was about insecurity, insecurity brought on by what you feel to be a broken promise and a position where you feel vulnerable.

While we might not agree on what goes on in his head or what the future holds, we all -including you- agree it's a bad position, and when you are in this bad position you need information/knowledge.

Knowledge brings about power, and some power in your hands will both give you some peace of mind and change the dynamic you feel being played out right now.

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I hate to disappoint you, but you're wrong.'Common Law' means absolutely nothing in 'Law'. Certainly in the UK, there is NO provision for such an arrangement.

Each case is evaluated on its own merits, there is no yardstick.

There is, in short, no such thing as a 'common Law' 'marriage'.

 

I know in the U.S., very few states recognize common law marriage anymore...which I believe used to be after 7 years. However, I know that you can claim Alimony after 5 years of living together, married or not. I believe it was Alimony...unless it was called something else for unmarried couples.

 

I understand why some have prolonged engagements, such as they plan to get married after college or they are in a LDR. However, if he really wants to marry you, there is no reason for him to wait this long. You need to tell him that in such and such time, if there isn't at least a date set or approximate date, you're going to move on. Having a child with someone is a life-long commitment and a much bigger commitment than marriage. There's no reason for him to shy away from marriage now.

Edited by pink_sugar
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exactly! that's just it. you can tell him, look we don't need to get married and have a big wedding. but we still have to take care of all of the logistics...like financial security and all of the what ifs...like if it doesn't took out or if something happens.

 

Those issues are valid. See a lawyer. Get married or don't .

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