Parent dissent

[Walk]

I recently got engaged to a man I've dated for 4 years. Everything is great as far as that goes. But I'm having a problem with the people who are supposed to be family.

 

My parents have been so blah about the whole thing. They say the right things, as far as congratulations and stuff. And if I bring up the topic they'll ask a question or two. But... its more of a feeling I'm getting. Like they disapprove but are keeping their mouths shut.

 

So a couple weeks ago, I was talking to my parents about my brother. They were going to take my brother and his kids on a week long trip to vacationland. My jealous side kind of got the better of me, and I asked them if they would help me purchase a house since they bought my brother two already, and a new car, and pay his internet bill, and his babysitter bills. And this vacation would be my brothers 4th this year.

 

I don't really want them to give me money, I want the offer. I want them to willingly say they would give me the same things they give my brother so freely.

 

Anyway, they were quiet for what seemed like a long time, then finally suggested that they would help me with a down payment on a house within reasonable prices. And that they would let me pay it back in small monthly payments at 6% interest. This was great as far as I was concerned. That's all I wanted. An offer. Considering they're giving all their money to my brother, then they probably just offered me quite a lot by offering that.

 

Then 2 weeks later my mom says that if they help me with the downpayment, my fiance's name can NOT be on the title at all. WTF? I was so shocked all I said was fine. But now I'm pissed. I'm hurt, I'm angry, I want to tell them off and let them know exactly what I think of them and their spoiled brat of a son. I feel betrayed.

 

But before I go off, or say anything, I need some other perspectives, and view points.

 

How would you feel about this? Would you mention this to your fiance/SO? Would you talk to your parents about how it affected you or let it stay under the radar? Would you feel insulted, or not? Any other opinions would be great. I need some perspective on this.

 

All I know at this point is I'm NOT going to ask for help with the downpayment, and under the stipulations my parents gave I could not accept it even if it was pushed on me.

[sally4sara]

It sounds like they don't care for or trust your fiance's motives. They also feel you will end up divorced and don't want a house they invested in get lost during those proceedings. I would ask them why that is when you sound like you have put the time into getting to know him for four years and love who he is enough to marry him.

And I would talk to them before you talk to your fiance about it. What can you tell him really if you don't know why they have misgivings?

[Art_Critic]

I think they are correct in not wanting his name on the house..

They are not helping him with the down payment , they are helping you.

Nothing wrong with protecting their own investment.

 

and that is nothing to say that if you both break up then you lose half of the down payment to someone you are no longer connected to.

There is also the issue if one or both of you die before you get married.. his family would then own half your house and vice versa.

 

I watched my Step Mom do this same thing with 2 of my sisters and it worked out great..

With them they only lived in those houses for a few years they then sold them and bought a new house in both names of their now husbands..

 

Just go with the flow..your BF is a big boy and should be able to handle not having his name on it.. unless he wants to come up with half of the down payment..

Edited January 20, 2008 by Art_Critic
spelling

[Walk]

Thank you for the replies. I can kind of understand their point of view a little better. But... I'm not sure how to explain this clearly... I view marriage as placing a significant amount of trust in your partner. Saying "I do" means you trust them with your life, your money, etc. Not "I trust you, as long as you stay away from my money, my house, my retirement savings (fill in whatever is important to you)."

 

So to segragate the man I have decided to marry from owning a house we ultimately will pay for together, seems.... wrong. I guess I could kind of see it if the down payment wasn't expected to be paid back. Or if for some reason I got a divorce and he got the house, then I was free and clear of repayment. But that's not how I see it. No matter what, that money needs to be repaid. Just like if I bought a new car, and totalled it the next day, I still owe the full amount of the loan on the car. So to ask me to cut out my fiance because he poises a risk to their investment, makes me believe that they don't trust me. That this has nothing to do with whoever else is in my life, this is about me repaying the loan, and their inability to trust that I will.

 

Pisses me off because my brother doesn't even try to repay them, yet they continue to give him money. I have always repaid them, with interest, but I have to tell my fiance to go f*ck himself because even though he's never accepted a cent from them, he's too big of a risk to bother with.

[vander]

I'm in the opposite situation. My fiance was just given a very large amount of money from his father for a down payment on a house.

 

My name will not be on the house at all, period -- and I like it that way.

 

It was my fiance's decision to purchase a house, and it was his father's decision to come up with the down payment. My fiance will make all of the mortgage payments.

 

So in my opinion for my situation, my name does not belong anywhere in that transaction. I would not feel comfortable with it.

[amaysngrace]

Hey Walk. First off Congratulations on your upcoming marriage!

 

I was split when I read your post. I understand your parents' concern but it sounded as if it were a loan to you and not a gift. Is that correct?

 

If it is then he will be paying it back too so I don't really see how you'd need to protect yourself from this bad man your parents think he is.

 

Is there any way you can do this without your parents' help? If not you can always have a lawyer draw something up so that they can protect that money until it's paid back.

 

Man, what a way to rain on your parade, huh?

[norajane]

I do my parents' taxes and stuff, and whenever I sit down with them and discuss their finances especially as it relates to upcoming retirement, my dad never ever counts my mother's 401(k) in their pool of accumulated assets. He does that because it makes my mother more comfortable to know she has that extra nest egg all her own in the event she would be left without him. They've been married over 40 years and they always do everything jointly as far as finances goes, but that 401(k) is totally separate.

 

The point I'm trying to make is, I think your parents are concerned for YOU as you are their daughter and they want to make sure you are taken care of in the event you end up on your own again by having the house in your name only. They don't want to contribute to a house if it means that your fiance could end up with half of it if something went badly between you. They want to make sure your assets are yours, just in case.

 

While it's romantic to think that when you get married it all belongs to both of you, the reality is that there are many ways to handle finances and there isn't necessarily a need to have it all split down the middle. I, personally, would have a pre-nup drawn up saying that everything I bring into the marriage remains mine. I would not want to be at the mercy of standard divorce laws if it turned out the love of my life was a lying cheater or something some years down the line.

 

The question I would ask myself if I were you is, do they have reason to be doubtful of your fiance? Is your history with him during these 4 years rocky, and did they see him as being abusive or untrustworthy? Have they seen your fiance be 'all about you', or have they seen a selfish side to him? In other words, is there any validity to their concerns that your relationship might not be as solid as you believe it to be? If so, then it seems clear your parents believe they are looking out for you. I wouldn't get mad at them about that - it really serves no purpose.

 

If you are upset with them because their generosity to your brother does not compare to their generosity toward you, that's a separate issue. Keep in mind, neither you nor your brother are entitled to anything from them - whatever they choose to give or however they choose to assist financially is their prerogative and entirely up to them.

[Storyrider]

The question I would ask myself if I were you is, do they have reason to be doubtful of your fiance? Is your history with him during these 4 years rocky, and did they see him as being abusive or untrustworthy? Have they seen your fiance be 'all about you', or have they seen a selfish side to him? In other words, is there any validity to their concerns that your relationship might not be as solid as you believe it to be? If so, then it seems clear your parents believe they are looking out for you. I wouldn't get mad at them about that - it really serves no purpose.

 

This is along the lines of what I was thinking, although I don't want to be negative or intrusive. I have read many of your threads over the last year. At times when things were rough with your bf, I strongly empathized with you, and felt angry with him, based on things you posted. I wonder if you confided some of these same details to your parents during these rougher times? They would probably empathize with you 100 times more than I would. I'm sure they were furious with him on your behalf.

 

And now you're asking them to forget all that and trust him. But they don't love him, so they have no reason to start fresh with him the way you have. Wouldn't that explain their skepticism, whether justified or not?

[Art_Critic]

but I have to tell my fiance to go f*ck himself because even though he's never accepted a cent from them, he's too big of a risk to bother with.

 

Why do you have to go back and tell him to go fuqk himself ?...

 

He is a big boy Walk... If he wants a house with his name on it he can do that to.. all he has to do is pay for it.. .. for him or you to expect your parents to pay his way isn't right either..

 

I think you are more upset over the brother issue thing than with this..

Do yo know for fact that he doesn't have to pay those loans back ?

[Art_Critic]

I'm in the opposite situation. My fiance was just given a very large amount of money from his father for a down payment on a house.

 

My name will not be on the house at all, period -- and I like it that way.

 

It was my fiance's decision to purchase a house, and it was his father's decision to come up with the down payment. My fiance will make all of the mortgage payments.

 

So in my opinion for my situation, my name does not belong anywhere in that transaction. I would not feel comfortable with it.

 

Very good way of looking at things Vander..

[HokeyReligions]

Have you talked with your parents about how it makes you feel? You said all you wanted was an offer I guess as a demonstration of their love for you, because it sounds like you think they love your brother more than you. Maybe if yu put it to them like that, they will be able to explain better why it appears that they love him more or value him more or trust him more. They may not even realize the significance of their actions or how deeply it hurts you. If you are calm and rational about it with them, then perhaps they won't see it as a petty jealousy on your part, thereby devaluing your true emotions.

 

A lot of times, sad to say, it comes down to a gender bias. Women are more emotional, their rationalizations are not respected or taken as serously as a man's. Lots of people feel this way and don't even know themselves that they are treating others this way.

[Touche]

You have two choices:

 

1. Take it

2. Leave it

 

That's it.

 

That said, I don't blame them given your rocky history with this guy. I've always feared that you were going to go down the very same path I did. And I see you are. Marrying this guy will be the only way you will ever get him out of your system. I say that because your chances of this marriage succeeding are slim to none and your parents can see that.

 

Sorry, Walk. I'm sure that's not what you wanted to hear.

[blind_otter]

My parents are a lot like your parents. I live in a house provided by my mother, but she has made it clear that my SO must "pay his way" because she is not beholden to him; she wants to make sure that I am taken care of.

 

Maybe because of this, I kind of understand where your parents are coming from. It's nice to be in love and completely trust your partner, but your parents are coming from a more practical line of thinking.

 

Personally, even when I was married I never blended my finances; I plan to always have my own bank account and handle my own bills. It just makes things simpler that way, believe me.

[Trialbyfire]

I think your parents are smart. It doesn't mean that your fiance is so bad or a terrible person.

 

In my previous marriage, we never co-blended our finances. We divvied up the expenses and each person took care of their own share. We did purchase our homes together but it was always a 50/50 split. In this way, we never, ever had any dissension about financial matters. Keep in mind that both of us are in the finance industry so we were always fiscally responsible, ensuring that we never exceeded our individual means.

[Walk]

This is NOT a gift!

 

They are not giving me any money. This would be a short term loan of maybe 3 thousand dollars. I would pay them interest on the money. They will make money off of loaning me money.

 

The idea was that both my fiance and I would be paying for the house. NOT that it would be only me paying for it. He would share the burden finacially equally.

 

 

1. Take it

2. Leave it

I agree. And I'm leaving it.

If he wants a house with his name on it he can do that to.. all he has to do is pay for it..

That was the idea. Half his money, half mine. I should tell him my parents feel that since they are LOANING me 3 thousand, then the 40,000+ he'll pay on the house is worth less then the 3 grand my parents loaned us?

[Art_Critic]

That was the idea. Half his money, half mine. I should tell him my parents feel that since they are LOANING me 3 thousand, then the 40,000+ he'll pay on the house is worth less then the 3 grand my parents loaned us?

 

Walk.. then why doesn't he buy the house and you both live in it and when you marry he can then quit claim deed over your half ?

 

Then you don't even have to entertain the idea of borrowing money from your parents..

[Walk]

They don't want to contribute to a house if it means that your fiance could end up with half of it if something went badly between you. They want to make sure your assets are yours, just in case.

What I'm hearing is, if they loan me money, then they want to make sure they can get their hands on it if things go bad. If they don't loan me money, then they won't say a word, and even if they think this man is going to take me for everything I've got, they're just going to keep their mouths shut.

 

The question I would ask myself if I were you is, do they have reason to be doubtful of your fiance? Is your history with him during these 4 years rocky, and did they see him as being abusive or untrustworthy? Have they seen your fiance be 'all about you', or have they seen a selfish side to him? In other words, is there any validity to their concerns that your relationship might not be as solid as you believe it to be?If so, then it seems clear your parents believe they are looking out for you. I wouldn't get mad at them about that - it really serves no purpose.

What makes me angry is if they feel that I am in a relationship where I'm being abused, taken advantage of, or am being screwed over, then why are they are keeping their mouths shut about it. I've never given them reason not to voice an opinion, and they'll voice it loud and clear about any other choice I make in my life. How I invest money, the type of job I have, how I interact with co-workers, friends, relatives, etc. They can't keep their mouths shut about anything they think I need to fix, but they're curiously mum when it comes to this?

 

So either A.) they don't think he's a bad guy who's out to get me, or B.) they do and they'd rather say nothing then come talk to me about it.

 

If you are upset with them because their generosity to your brother does not compare to their generosity toward you, that's a separate issue. Keep in mind, neither you nor your brother are entitled to anything from them - whatever they choose to give or however they choose to assist financially is their prerogative and entirely up to them.

 

I know they don't 'owe' me anything. I don't normally ask for anything. Sometimes they push stuff on me and then they tell me I have to do things their way because they gave me something. But since I am a good little daughter, I go along with their wishes, and I thank them profusely. I go over and mow their lawn, rake their leaves, clean their house, etc. To try to show them I appreciate all the things they've done for me. Its just sometimes I end up feeling like the ugly step daughter, while my brother is some kind of knighted saint who deserves special treatment because he has testicles. And this was one of those times, and I wanted to see if they would offer the same conditions to me as they did to my brother. They didn't. I accept that. Not happy with what I learned from their response, but I'm not bothered that they aren't paying for a house or anything.

[Walk]

never mind

[sunshinegirl]

Why do your parents treat your brother so differently? Has it always been this way in your family?

 

It seems to me the real issue that spurred your thread was the unequal treatment between you and your brother.

 

While I agree that nobody's 'entitled' to anything from their parents, it would hurt as hell if my sisters consistently received generous gifts from my parents and I didn't. This isn't about money, it's about love, belonging, acceptance.

[Walk]

This isn't about money, it's about love, belonging, acceptance.

 

Exactly!

 

It's always been this way. If I wanted something (as a child) I got a job and I earned the money to buy it. They hand it to my brother. Still do. He's 35 years old and his mommy and daddy have given him everything he owns. Now they're saying they don't understand why he is so bad with money, and confused about why he doesn't understand the value of it.

 

I've lived with this for 30 years though, so I've mostly come to terms with it. But dang it. I wanted my parents to accept my fiance because they believe in my judgement, and believe in me. And to stipulate that he not be on the title screams they don't trust that judgement. If they did trust me, they would've voiced their concerns and allowed me to decide. What they did is stipulate the conditions to which they would loan the money, ensuring that their money is "safe". Understandable.... if they are a bank and don't know me from jane doe that walked in off the street.

[Art_Critic]

I wanted my parents to accept my fiance because they believe in my judgement, and believe in me.

 

Walk.. you have to give your parents some time.. acceptance of an SO isn't always a guaranteed thing

 

Your relationship is going great.. you are engaged and you both have worked past your previous issues but your parents still remember some of the bad times you both went thru..

It wasn't long ago and you broke up and moved out...I'm sure that is very close in their thoughts as well when you talked with them about the downpayment

 

I think you might want to have a sit down with them.. quit using your brother as a baseline to how you should be treated..

Parents very rarely do the exact things with one child they do with the other..

You may also find out that they don't give him as much as you might think..There may be agreements of payment that you know nothing of..

 

I think you need some understanding from them and you also need to start to understand where they are coming from and the only way to do that is a sit down face to face discussion talking about their feelings of your fiance and how that affects you.. you will then hear their viewpoint about things..

 

Hang tough girl... .. by the way.. I bolded the most important part of my post...

Edited January 20, 2008 by Art_Critic

[HokeyReligions]

What makes me angry is if they feel that I am in a relationship where I'm being abused, taken advantage of, or am being screwed over, then why are they are keeping their mouths shut about it. I've never given them reason not to voice an opinion, and they'll voice it loud and clear about any other choice I make in my life. How I invest money, the type of job I have, how I interact with co-workers, friends, relatives, etc. They can't keep their mouths shut about anything they think I need to fix, but they're curiously mum when it comes to this?

 

So either A.) they don't think he's a bad guy who's out to get me, or B.) they do and they'd rather say nothing then come talk to me about it.

 

There is an option C) that you haven't considered.

 

They know your rocky past with this man. They also know you love him. They know that if they tell you not to see him anymore and cut him out of your life you will be hurt, resent them, and not do it anyway. Give them some credit for knowing a little about human nature and love. They love you and want what's best for you, but they also know that when it comes to love and attraction and attachment between a man and a woman - those outside that relationship - especially parents - can easily become estranged to put it nicely. They are probably trying to avoid that and I warrant that they hurt for you without you knowing it. It's hard for parents to let go, and when you have some that do - its harder on all parties to balance that. Its a very fine line.

 

I'm confused now though. Is this still a sibling issue of love and trust? Or is this how your parents feel about your betrothed?

[Walk]

I'm confused now though. Is this still a sibling issue of love and trust? Or is this how your parents feel about your betrothed?

Sorry that's my fault. I'm caught between those two issues and I'm not seperating them very well.

 

I never really told my parents about the problems with the relationship. I'd tell them we had a fight if they asked what was wrong, but I never went into detail about it. I'm not even sure they were aware I moved out. I didn't want to bother them with my issues at the time, and I might have mentioned things weren't going well, but I'm amazingly tight lipped about my thoughts.

 

I guess maybe I could see it though... I think they know me well enough to know that even a small mention of something wrong means it's probably a pretty serious problem. Otherwise I don't say anything. So maybe they filled in the missing details with their own version of events?

[Walk]

I'm going to write my parents an email (can't have a sit down now because they're on vacation. And I won't send this til after they get back). I think writing allows me the option of rewording my feelings into friendlier terminology then I might currently be feeling. Which would get me a more positive response, and an actual discussion, instead of angry emotional parents.

 

Any ideas on how to approach their feelings on my fiance? I'd really like to discuss it with them... and I was thinking along the lines of "why the hell don't you like him?" But I thought that might be kind of abrasive... How about, "when you stipulated that the loan of the money meant (fiance) couldn't be on the title of the house, it really bothered me. Is it that you don't trust him? If so, I really would like to discuss that with you. Either I'm not seeing something you see, or maybe I've left you with the wrong impression about him, or there's been some kind of miscommunication that maybe we could clear up. "

 

Does that sound okay? I do want to hear their opinions, but I don't want them to assume that this is a free for all, and I'm going to do as they say without having my own opinions on the matter.

Does it come off as "I'm an adult and would like to talk to you about adult things?" Do you think they'll approach it like adults? Not as parents?

 

geez I hate confrontation...

 

 

 

ART: Thank you very much for the great post. I get what you're saying. Your definitely right.

[oyster]

I'm in the opposite situation. My fiance was just given a very large amount of money from his father for a down payment on a house.

 

My name will not be on the house at all, period -- and I like it that way.

 

It was my fiance's decision to purchase a house, and it was his father's decision to come up with the down payment. My fiance will make all of the mortgage payments.

 

So in my opinion for my situation, my name does not belong anywhere in that transaction. I would not feel comfortable with it.

 

how do you work out the living expense since you are not making mortgage payment?

do you pay rent equivalent or something like that?