Can men and women be friends

[Elise]

question:

 

can a heterosexual woman and a heterosexual man be good friends without one of them having feelings for the other.

 

discuss.

[tokyo]

I've answered a similar thread a long time ago. Last year in summer. Then I said, it's absolutely possible, you just have to keep the distance. Now I think, it's really hard, less for me, but for the guys. I think guys use friendships in order to get further. I have two friends and I used to see them nearly every day at university and I think it's really clear to them that they'd not get further than a friendship and one also has a girlfriend. The other one is too smart and knows me too well to believe that it could work out with me. I think a friendship between men and women is possible if the guys are aware that friendship will not automatically lead to anything more even if you get very close to her. It doesn't have to mean anything (I'm just speaking for myself though).

 

Honestly, with time I've come to the conclusion that they are a big fuss those friendships and I wish I had more women as friends than men.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Yes, it is possible. I have had friends who were women, without them being GFs. I have also had friends who were women, who through either me or her initiating something more, became closer (emotionally/physically/romantically) relationships.

 

It really just varies, and there are LOTS of different kinds of friendships that can happen between men and women, and lots of different things those friendships may, or may not ever turn into.

 

Sometimes, the spark just is NOT there, but you really like someone, and they become a real talking and hanging out buddy, notwithstanding the fact that they happen to be of the opposite sex, but nothing more is even really seriously thought about. My cousin is like this for me. She is cool, and she is my friend, but even if she wasn't my cousin, she is just a friend. I have even been a sounding board for her when she was trying to understand men, and vice versa.

 

Sometimes, the spark IS there, but you make a conscious choice not to act on it for fear of screwing up a really great friendship.

 

Every once in a while, two people are close friends, and neither loves the other romantically, but one of the things those two people who are really just good buds enjoy doing together is sleeping with each other once in a while if they happen to be of the opposite sex and are otherwise uninvolved at the moment. There is an emotional connection, just like with any friend, but the physical is just that. Some call this "friendships with benefits". I don't mind that term, but I think it is important that the friendship be about the friendship, not the benefits, and the sex is something secondary that just happens once in a while. It's also important that both are on the same page, and that nobody is using someone who does have deeper feelings and wants more. Some may have a moral problem with this kind of relaitonship, but sex is fun, and if you don't have a GF/BF at the moment, and your good friend wants to do ya - well, let's just say I'm not one to judge.

 

Then there is the other type of FWB relationship, which is mostly just about the sex, and not really about friendship at all (an "f-buddy"). These kinds of relationships are more dangerous I think because there is a lot of potential for someone using someone if the two people don't otherwise know each other well enough to know that they are both truly on the same page, and that one of them does not have lots of hidden feelings.

 

Sometimes, the spark is REALLY there or shows up at some point into the friendship, someone acts on it, and it turns into something really beautiful. In my experience, these have turned into the best kinds of loving relationships (and the hardest breakups, because most of the time you lose a really special friend too - which just really sucks).

 

It just depends on the people involved, and the relationships.

 

But to reiterate, the answer to your question is "yes, a man and a woman, neither of whom are gay, can be friends without either of them having romantic feelings for the other." It happens.

[Elise]

wow. good response withorwithoutyou...but i still have to disagree with you

 

sowwy...

 

ok fine. i think like 2 in a million people can do it. but i really think if a straight guy and girl are really good friends...there is that sexual tension there always. and then one will have feelings and the other won't and blah blah.

 

this is very interesting.

[tokyo]

Withorwithoutyou, please, be my friend and show me that I'm totally wrong. Men are just causing problems. My experience.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Originally posted by kooky

Withorwithoutyou, please, be my friend and show me that I'm totally wrong. Men are just causing problems. My experience.

 

LOL, sounds good. I have had lots of women friends actually, [sarcasm]believe it or not, some of whom I never even slept with![/sarcasm].

 

Like I said, everything in life is situational, and it really just depends on how two people relate to each other and what happens. That's the nice thing about life, you just never know. But it is very possible. I've seen it, and I've done it (or, um, not done it, as the case may be).

 

And not all men are after a romantic relationship with every woman they spend time with. That's a bit of a stereotype. Of course, if the attraction happens, it happens. I've actually been hit on be a few of my female "just friends" too, so it's not just a "guy thing".

[d'Arthez]

Barely ever had a problem with male-female friendships. And I am / have been in quite a few of these friendships. Whether the girl was attached or not. And they were heterosexual, just as I am.

 

It really depends on the agenda of the man and the woman. Do they both want friendship and nothing more? Or does one secretly want more? I never had to make a conscious efffort to stop developing romantic feelings. They simply were not there.

 

I am one of these people who will either have something for a woman, or won't have it. If I am not drawn to her upon meeting, I will never be. So that makes it really easy for me, to have male-female friendships. Of course, I can't tell how the women perceive the respective friendships, but let me just say, that my behavior remains purely platonic.

[tokyo]

I think I always appeal to nice guys, but you can't be friends with nice guys. It's a lot easier to be friends with guys who are not desperate for a girlfriend. I've realized you can't be friends with a nice guy and email him every day, I think that was my mistake. I would say, you can't be very close friends with a guy though, like see him every day alone and share two many things together. I mean, I do have other guys as friends than the ones I mentioned above, but we are not that close or they live in other countries and I do not really see them that much.

 

I think friendship is possible when both are not too desperate for finding a girl/boyfriend and are also not too romantic and do not do stuff together on a regular basis. I think these conditions are essential if you want to maintain a platonic friendship.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by kooky

I think friendship is possible when both are not too desperate for finding a girl/boyfriend.

 

That is true. But in our sexed-up world, relatively few people, can maintain that standard. Especially as a lot of people behave in an "instant-gratification mode."

[tokyo]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

That is true. But in our sexed-up world, relatively few people, can maintain that standard. Especially as a lot of people behave in an "instant-gratification mode."

Now you're getting something wrong. I do not think that someone who is looking for a girl/boyfriend is only looking for sex, they are looking for a partner, for someone to love them and whom they can love back and that is only legitime. I think the problem is not sex, or not only at least, because if they wanted to have some it wouldn't be such a problem. What they are looking for is someone who understands them and helps them out of their lonelines and that's a very natural thing.

[d'Arthez]

I should have stated that more clearly kooky. I have worded things somewhat inexact, hence the confusion.

 

A lot of people are highly goalorientated in their behavior. For a lot of people becoming friends is just a stepping stone, to getting something more. It might be sex, it might be a relationship. It depends on the man and woman in the situation what is desired. Oftentimes a (wo)man is interested in the friendship, and friendship only, whilst the other party is looking for something more.

 

Loneliness can only be overcome by being able to be alone. Most people can't, though.

[Donut]

I think men and women can have purely platonic relationships. I have alot of male friends and love hanging out with them, sometimes more than I enjoy the company of my female friends!

 

It's natural to develop feelings for someone you know well, and it can work out and turn into a really good loving relationship, since you've already been friends for so long.

 

On the other hand, if either of you develop feelings and they aren't returned then a strong friendship should be able to withstand that test. You can still hang out and enjoy the persons company, just realise and truly accept that is all it is, friendship and nothing more.

 

If you can't do that then both people should understand and not have hard feelings about the friendship ending if it must, but that would be such a shame if that happened.

 

I suppose it depends on how mature you both are and how strong the friendship is in the first place.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Loneliness can only be overcome by being able to be alone. Most people can't, though.

I again don't agree (are you contradicting me intentionally? ).Loneliness can be overcome if you can reach out to someone without having the fear to get rejected. I actually see these nice guys as lonely people, because they have no clue what women want and they get rejected for this. And most people who say I'm proud to be alone are lying to themselves about the fact they are scared to sh*t to go out and meet someone else, but are in desperate of someone to listen to them and share their thoughts with.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by kooky

I again don't agree (are you contradicting me intentionally? ).

 

Of course . It comes with the job description that was handed to me, when it was discovered that I had two dissimilar chromosomes-23.

 

Loneliness can be overcome if you can reach out to someone without having the fear to get rejected. I actually see these nice guys as lonely people, because they have no clue what women want and they get rejected for this. And most people who say I'm proud to be alone are lying to themselves about the fact they are scared to sh*t to go out and meet someone else, but are in desperate of someone to listen to them and share their thoughts with.

 

Which exactly proves my point. A lot of people are lonely, because they hate being alone. And then you have people who are always part of the crowd, in an attempt to avoid the same feelings of loneliness. But without a deep spiritual connection (if possible), the loneliness will resurface time and again, or will become something chronical.

 

The nice guys you mentioned can't stand their being alone, and seek for ways to compensate that, for instance a gf. Who they can smother with attention, blah blah blah, the whole insecurity thing they often have. A nice guy, who has a backbone and does not blame women for his problems, can be alone, and does not have to have the same person around constantly, or even anyone around.

 

I love being alone. It allows me to do, what I must do and want to do. Of course, at times I suffer from loneliness. We all do, as it is part of the human condition.

[Israfil]

Originally posted by Elise

i think like 2 in a million people can do it. but i really think if a straight guy and girl are really good friends...there is that sexual tension there always. and then one will have feelings and the other won't and blah blah.

 

I totally disagree. My best friends from college are men, and I am extremely close to several men now as well. Yes, of course there are differences between the genders - I would never argue differently. But I still maintain that so much of what we are forced to believe about men and women and the dynamics between them has been socially contrived. Why would we want to perpetuate archaic constructs about the genders? I for one will not.

 

 

Originally posted by d'Arthez

I love being alone. It allows me to do, what I must do and want to do. Of course, at times I suffer from loneliness. We all do, as it is part of the human condition.

 

Agreed 100%.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by d'Arthez

Of course . It comes with the job description that was handed to me, when it was discovered that I had two dissimilar chromosomes-23.

You also know that makes you guilty for everything bad happening in the world and also you can never ever under any circumstance be right.

 

Which exactly proves my point. A lot of people are lonely, because they hate being alone. And then you have people who are always part of the crowd, in an attempt to avoid the same feelings of loneliness. But without a deep spiritual connection (if possible), the loneliness will resurface time and again, or will become something chronical.

 

The nice guys you mentioned can't stand their being alone, and seek for ways to compensate that, for instance a gf. Who they can smother with attention, blah blah blah, the whole insecurity thing they often have. A nice guy, who has a backbone and does not blame women for his problems, can be alone, and does not have to have the same person around constantly, or even anyone around.

 

I love being alone. It allows me to do, what I must do and want to do. Of course, at times I suffer from loneliness. We all do, as it is part of the human condition.

Ok, I think the only difference between these nice guys who can't be friends with a woman and you is that you are nice, but too proud and too much in control of your emotions to run after a woman who rejects you.

 

I don't necessarily think that those guys are not able to be alone. They have been alone enough and don't like the situation anymore. When they try to change it, they see it's harder than they thought. And the reason why they put the blame for their failure on the women is simple. Rejection is hard, because it will always be associated with failure, it's you who's not good enough and that's why they chose someone else. So, you shift the blame from yourself to the person who rejected you. A mature person will think, ok, it's not meant to be and move on. The nice guys can't deal with the rejection and think they will be lonely for the rest of their life. I think they are desperate, not because they are afraid of being alone, they are afraid of being alone for the rest of their life, that they will never find someone who loves them.

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by kooky

You also know that makes you guilty for everything bad happening in the world and also you can never ever under any circumstance be right.

I have already called myself a sinner on your behalf. Let me spend the rest of my life to repent and atone for my sins kooky .

 

Ok, I think the only difference between these nice guys who can't be friends with a woman and you is that you are nice, but too proud and too much in control of your emotions to run after a woman who rejects you.

No. I am a highly emotional person especially with my close friends; a message board can give only a limited reflection on how I behave IRL, and not when mediated by internet. Emotions do not equal losing one's mind at the first occasion. And of course, it would have been insane behavior to run after a woman who rejected me.

I do not run after women to have a relationship; I just happen to meet interesting people, some of who are female. They might be great people in a lot of ways, but just because they are female does not imply they are relationship prospects to me. In 99.9 percent of all cases they simply are not.

 

And of course I am proud. But of what, that is the crucial question.

 

I don't necessarily think that those guys are not able to be alone. They have been alone enough and don't like the situation anymore. When they try to change it, they see it's harder than they thought. And the reason why they put the blame for their failure on the women is simple. Rejection is hard, because it will always be associated with failure, it's you who's not good enough and that's why they chose someone else. So, you shift the blame from yourself to the person who rejected you. A mature person will think, ok, it's not meant to be and move on. The nice guys can't deal with the rejection and think they will be lonely for the rest of their life. I think they are desperate, not because they are afraid of being alone, they are afraid of being alone for the rest of their life, that they will never find someone who loves them.

But the whole problem is the fear of being alone. And if you can't handle being alone, how can you properly handle being together? If they do not know how to make it through a day with themselves, how can they expect a SO, to solve that problem for them?

[tokyo]

No. I am a highly emotional person especially with my close friends; a message board can give only a limited reflection on how I behave IRL, and not when mediated by internet. Emotions do not equal losing one's mind at the first occasion. And of course, it would have been insane behavior to run after a woman who rejected me.

The last sentence, that is what I mean. You are in control of your emotions. I did not say that you don't have any emotions, but you are protecting them instead like letting them overflow like the nice guys do.

 

I do not run after women to have a relationship; I just happen to meet interesting people, some of who are female. They might be great people in a lot of ways, but just because they are female does not imply they are relationship prospects to me. In 99.9 percent of all cases they simply are not.

You are just picky. It's not that you are not desperate, but your ego also demands an equal partner and if you don't find an equal you prefer to be alone, but that doesn't mean you would not act desperately if you finally found someone who met all your criteria and needs. I think you only do not act very desperate, because you did not get hooked up yet. Let me assure you, when you have found the one (or think you have found her), you will act like a complete idiot, just like the rest of us. That's a gross idea, but true. By the way, 99.9 % would mean, you have to meet at least 1000 women to find one that suits you. Is it possible that you have so many women that close to be able to say they were relationship material for you or not?

 

And of course I am proud. But of what, that is the crucial question.

Shall I make a guess?

 

But the whole problem is the fear of being alone. And if you can't handle being alone, how can you properly handle being together? If they do not know how to make it through a day with themselves, how can they expect a SO, to solve that problem for them?

You make it sound as if they were babies in diapers. But probablyyou are right when you assume that they have high expectations. I still think all they need is more trust in themselves and in the future, with their desperation they make themselves look very unattractive. And by assuming that every friendship with a woman they find interesting will lead to more they are predestined to pain.

[gwennebe]

I have a lot of male friends. More so than female and I think you can have pure relationships without feelings toward each other but it is very rare. Most of the time one or the other has some sort of sexual/romantic feelings toward the other person even if they do not act on it or admit it.

[sweetness69]

i believe it all depends on what type of person you are attracted to, the guy i am dating now was my friend first for two years i never liked him until a few months ago cuz he wasnt my type but he has always liked me, they say when your in a male and female friendship someone always like someone but may not let it be known.

[FolderWife]

nope

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by kooky

You are in control of your emotions. I did not say that you don't have any emotions, but you are protecting them instead like letting them overflow like the nice guys do.

 

On the message board of course. There is no need for me to show emotions on a message board, when it is not necessary, nor warranted. In real life things are quite different though. I can give expression to the thoughts and emotions that occured to me, when I was walking in the street and saw a leaf falling from a tree in last August. The beauty of its irregular movements, and how it is exactly like life. How that made me remind of past events, and all the joys and sorrows of these days. And my name is not Werther!

Or I can give expression to the exact influence, say for example Beethoven's 5th Symphony has on me. But that is not what people are looking for on any of these messageboards.

 

You are just picky. It's not that you are not desperate, but your ego also demands an equal partner and if you don't find an equal you prefer to be alone, but that doesn't mean you would not act desperately if you finally found someone who met all your criteria and needs. I think you only do not act very desperate, because you did not get hooked up yet. Let me assure you, when you have found the one (or think you have found her), you will act like a complete idiot, just like the rest of us. That's a gross idea, but true.

 

I have acted an idiot a couple of times, with regards to women. And even though the whole "infatuation" stage might hamper my mental abilities somewhat, it is far from the truth to guess that I have been a complete idiot at times. Even the strongest infatuation does not make reflection disappear completely. Sorry to quote again : there is not a love, that is not an echo. The reflection never fully disappears when in love, or even in the infatuation stage. At least when you have spent a lot of time in self-reflection.

 

And of course, if I were to enter a relationship, I prefer an equal. A sane man would. I know women with certain "disorders" , which can be shortly labeled as having a "high success potential", rarely meet these men; it only proves that quite a few men are not sane.

 

I know too many men, however, who prefer relationships over random sex, as it costs (!) less money, and less effort. I am not one of them, and will not be one of them ever. I am not one to use women as crutches for my selfish desires.

 

By the way, 99.9 % would mean, you have to meet at least 1000 women to find one that suits you. Is it possible that you have so many women that close to be able to say they were relationship material for you or not?

No need to to take my estimate of 99.9% literaly. I haven't met the 3 billion women on this planet, so I can hardly say that I would be attracted to only 3 million of them. And don't forget that I am not exactly actively looking for a relationship right now, so don't get the idea I am desperate.

 

Generally I find out if a woman is relationship material for me, by engaging in short conversation. Women with certain mindsets are OUT. Women who are attached to a boyfriend / married are OUT.

Quite a few women are relationship material, but not for me.

I might be great to spend an evening with, but if a woman prefers going to the movies a lot, I am not suited for spending the evening with her a lot. Because I don't like movies.

 

Shall I make a guess?

Please do .

 

You make it sound as if they were babies in diapers. But probablyyou are right when you assume that they have high expectations. I still think all they need is more trust in themselves and in the future, with their desperation they make themselves look very unattractive. And by assuming that every friendship with a woman they find interesting will lead to more they are predestined to pain.

 

Agree on that.

[amerikajin]

I think men and women can have purely platonic relationships

 

(A guy's perspective)

 

Yes, it can happen, but the dynamics have to be right.

 

If you have a really hot girl, a lot of guys just become drawn to her because of the fact that they find her sexy - especially if she's smart and has a good personality to go along with it. The girls who always made me suffer were the ones who weren't necessarily hot, but were pretty (mayb 7 on a scale of 10), were smart, and who had this indiscribable sweetness or friendliness which. There are certain women who are gorgeous and who are just so naturally warm and open (like a nurse at a hospital) they can make any guy feel like she sees inside them. That's when things get f*cked, because the line where reality ends and where a guy's fantasy begins becomes blurred. Thus, if the girl is hot, the guy she's friends with has to be able satisfied enough with his love life that he doesn't really care about bonking his friend.

 

Other than that, I think that the guy has to be more attractive to members of the opposite sex than the female. If there's an attraction on the guy's part, it has to be moderate at best so that he can control himself. Otherwise, he'll be having lunch with her at noon and slapping his salami while he's thinking about her at midnight.

[angelj]

i enjoyed reading all of these replies...everyone has such mixed emotions about this topic.

 

i used to believe men and women can be friends.

 

i do not agree anymore. at least not at this period in time.

 

i used to be the girl who was shy of boys and had tons of female friends. that gradually changed and by senior year of high school/into the next 5 years, my ratio of male vs female friends has drastically changed.

 

however.........

 

i recently found out some (rather shocking on my behalf) information that has now led me to conclude that men and women cannot be just friends without one person having some sort of feelings.

 

now it it is possible to contain those feelings and still maintain the friendship....(which is what has occured with more than a few of my male friends....)

 

but for one friendship, that has not worked. we even took a stab at a relationship...and it fell to pieces and our friendship is completely and utterly destroyed. (mainly my fault because i was hesitant during the entire process, did not have the same feelings, could not stand him in the end and just began ignoring him. ugh so immature..i know)

 

i recently found out that more than a few of my platonic male friends have feelings for me. but they just swallow it and hide it because they know i will not even consider acting on them.

 

but i've had the same problem with feelings and male friends and i've almost always contained them. as for the ones ive contained, im extremely grateful. there is a difference when you start a loving relationship out of a friendship. i think the entire time you are building that friendship, you both have some sort of attraction to the other. (Physical...sexual...whatever) but one or both are too shy to admit it/act on it so you take a stab at the friends idea and then it just turns into the relationship. the boy in my post, i called him my "good friend" for 2 years but in all reality, the entire time we were both lusting after one another, both too intimidated to make a move, both consumed in other relationships, and just called each other friends. he wasnt my friend, and he will never be just my friend. we just arent that type of people. yes we are good friends, but only when romantic feelings are involved and emotions are flying around. when one or both has that wall up, we just dont mesh. besides, ive never wanted him as just my friend. i used the excuse to get myself closer. and he said the same thing to me. he doesnt have girl friends....actually he doesnt really have any friends. moving on...

 

i dont know, just my insight. so in conclusion...i think its impossible unless one or both can contain those feelings and not live a suffering life wishing if only....

[nothingspecialtodo]

I find it an interesting discussion and was wondering about the same questions since couple of days again. I think genetically we are programmed to survive and replicate, that is why I would say that a platonic relationships never exist entirely. Furthermore I would propose that if or not strong desires for intimacy would evolve depends also on available resources inside of the different minds. One problem for the male is that we react very strongly on visual signals that easily can remove barriers in the mind, i.e. let sexual desires grow. It is only that by failure to approach the girl that we learn to develop alternative ways to think, and not doing the same mistakes all over again. I also agree that society doesnt offer very usefull ways to think about real beauty and how to deal with more primitive emotions... don't know, am very tired right now, so this post might be confusing. any idea's welcome, esp. female perspectives