Can the friendzone actually be a stepping stone?

[ZA Dater]

Wouldn't being someone's friend be an ideal stepping stone for more assuming they wanted more?

 

Reason I say that is being friends you are not trying to showcase who you are but simply being who you are and the person gets an opportunity to see the good and not so good things about you and maybe then can make an informed decision assuming there is some sort of attraction?

 

Or am I totally wrong about this?

 

Or is it impossible to get out of the friend zone?

[basil67]

I just re-read your question and edited my answer.

 

If as you say, I wanted more - why would I have him as just a friend to start with? Pushing aside my desire for a friendship seems counter productive to me.

 

Basically, if a guy is a friend it's because I don't feel romantically inclined towards him.

Edited June 28, 2016 by basil67

[Jabron1]

This is a rationalization on your part.

 

Is the fear of rejection from other women really so crippling that you would be willing to orbit one woman in the friendzone - perhaps for years?

 

The friendzone is nothing but a detriment. Don't entertain it.

[ZA Dater]

This is a rationalization on your part.

 

Is the fear of rejection from other women really so crippling that you would be willing to orbit one woman in the friendzone - perhaps for years?

 

The friendzone is nothing but a detriment. Don't entertain it.

 

Its more of a general question in terms of guys who struggle to impress enough initially to be deemed attractive but may become attractive if someone had to spend a decent amount of time with them.

[basil67]

Its more of a general question in terms of guys who struggle to impress enough initially to be deemed attractive but may become attractive if someone had to spend a decent amount of time with them.

 

In your initial question, you say "assuming they wanted more". However, in this post, you talk about there being no initial attraction on her part. Thing is, if she has no initial attraction then they won't want more.

 

Though all rules have exceptions. My exception was a mate to turned into a lover back in the 1980's. It was brief and intense and crashed and burned. To this day, he's the only person on the face of the earth who I would be pleased to hear that he'd died. (There was a fire bombing incident)

 

The one thing this episode taught me was that how a person presents as a mate can be a polar opposite of how they present in a relationship. So even if you know them for years as a friend, you don't know how they would be in a relationship sense. And it can really do one's head in trying to make sense of the difference.

[Jabron1]

Its more of a general question in terms of guys who struggle to impress enough initially to be deemed attractive but may become attractive if someone had to spend a decent amount of time with them.

 

Already you are lowering your own value here. 'Guys who struggle to impress initially'. If you don't think you are better than the friendzone, then you probably won't act like it either. You are probably friendzoning yourself.

 

The friendzone is a complete detriment to you as a man. It's a complete rejection of you as a sexual being - like a castration. Girls are disgusted at the thought of actually sleeping with their orbiters. Don't entertain it as a sexual strategy.

[ZA Dater]

In your initial question, you say "assuming they wanted more". However, in this post, you talk about there being no initial attraction on her part. Thing is, if she has no initial attraction then they won't want more.

 

Though all rules have exceptions. My exception was a mate to turned into a lover back in the 1980's. It was brief and intense and crashed and burned. To this day, he's the only person on the face of the earth who I would be pleased to hear that he'd died. (There was a fire bombing incident)

 

The one thing this episode taught me was that how a person presents as a mate can be a polar opposite of how they present in a relationship. So even if you know them for years as a friend, you don't know how they would be in a relationship sense. And it can really do one's head in trying to make sense of the difference.

 

Point taken, I am just trying to ascertain if there is any hope for people who don't present well initially but are nevertheless more attractive when you get to know them over time.

[Jabron1]

I am just trying to ascertain if there is any hope for people who don't present well initially

 

Yeah, learn to open strong.

 

Straight back, chin up, good eye contact, no fidgeting, cheeky grin, low vocal tone, solid base.

[ZA Dater]

Don't entertain it as a sexual strategy.

 

Agreed. However, if you accept most guys who cannot be attractive initially struggle with loneliness wouldn't the friend zone at least offer something to reduce that feeling?

 

Really trying to establish if its possible to become attractive over time through being friends or not.

 

Remember in context we are talking about people who have very little experience and very little success so wouldn't a friend be better than nothing, at least the person would have something as opposed to hitting their head against the wall being rejected all the time.

[chriscwashere]

It's possible to get out of the friendzone...

 

Just personal experience.

 

There are 2 factors:

 

1. There needs to be initial attraction...but for whatever reason the relationship turned into a friendship.

 

2. It takes a looooong time to turn it around.

 

My story:

 

I met a woman on a dating site. There was attraction. Then she found out I was divorced. She decided to friendzone me immediately. And made it super clear she'd never date me.

 

Throughout the months, I'd call her up to hang out. We did. Revealed to each other our dating stories. We got to know each other's quirks...

During all this time, she made it clear we were just friends.

 

Then one day, the barriers broke down. And she jumped on. Literally just invited me to her place and made a move on me.

 

By this point, I thought of her more as a friend... but we hooked up. And we tried the FWB thing. But she liked me way more than I could reciprocate, so I broke it off.

 

Anyway...

 

YES. It can be done. But it will take a LOOONG time. And there needs to be initial chemistry. But you may not even want a relationship with her after you get to know each other as friends.

[basil67]

ZA Dater, you keep using the word "friendzone". Ie; A guy who's interested in a woman but she only sees him as a friend.

 

But what about "friendship"? Having women in your friend group is a great way to get used to interacting with women. And they will have friends who you meet along the way. But be clear that I'm talking about having friend groups who are mixed gender. Not special 1:1 friends.

 

FWIW, if a guy had no women in his social groups, I'd probably be dubious about him. Why? Because it shows me that he has trouble relating to women. Or doesn't like women. Or can't ever find anything in common with a woman. Any of these would make him a poor candidate for a romantic partner.

 

So, have female friends. You never know what may happen with them or via them. I do know women who have married guys who started out as friends. It's not impossible. But be clear, I'm talking about starting as friends and one day they each get hit by a bolt of romantic lightning.....this is opposed to hoping to claw your way out of the friendzone.

 

And as Jabron says, don't orbit around one or two women hoping that they may one day see you as more.

[ZA Dater]

ZA Dater, you keep using the word "friendzone". Ie; A guy who's interested in a woman but she only sees him as a friend.

 

But what about "friendship"? Having women in your friend group is a great way to get used to interacting with women. And they will have friends who you meet along the way. But be clear that I'm talking about having friend groups who are mixed gender. Not special 1:1 friends.

 

FWIW, if a guy had no women in his social groups, I'd probably be dubious about him. Why? Because it shows me that he has trouble relating to women. Or doesn't like women. Or can't ever find anything in common with a woman. Any of these would make him a poor candidate for a romantic partner.

 

So, have female friends. You never know what may happen with them or via them. I do know women who have married guys who started out as friends. It's not impossible. But be clear, I'm talking about starting as friends and one day they each get hit by a bolt of romantic lightning.....this is opposed to hoping to claw your way out of the friendzone.

 

And as Jabron says, don't orbit around one or two women hoping that they may one day see you as more.

 

Its exactly this bold part which kills most people stone dead.

 

I am just trying to find something workable which can give me and no doubt others like me something as opposed to sitting in this endless cycle of nothingness.

 

My other point is if someone sees you as a friend can you turn this around or are you basically trying to climb a mountain without a rope?

 

My thinking has always been wrong based on this thread, I always thought it best to try and befriend someone and then move from there.

[Tribble]

I'm going to offer a different perspective here - yes. My ex and I were friends and then became something more. He made it clear he was interested but very firmly made it clear I just wanted friendship. And there was no attraction there for me to begin with. But over time, we spent more time together, talked, and I fell for him. Hard. And he became the most attractive person to me.

 

 

But I am not the norm and I don't want you to rely on my experience. I am very much a personality over looks person and a very slow burn. Which is not the same for a lot of people. I would never suggest using the friendzone as a strategy. For me, being friends first is a safety net to make sure no-one expects anything. I also want to know someone before I would ever be comfortable accepting a romantic move. In other words, don't bother hanging around hoping I'll change my mind because, chances are, I won't, although it is possible.

 

 

But like Basil said, they isn't anything wrong with having women as friends. In fact I think it is very much a positive. Interact with people but don't go into it expecting it to lead further. I know that's difficult though.

[Erik30]

I just re-read your question and edited my answer.

 

If as you say, I wanted more - why would I have him as just a friend to start with? Pushing aside my desire for a friendship seems counter productive to me.

 

Basically, if a guy is a friend it's because I don't feel romantically inclined towards him.

 

I agree with you for the most part, but I think there can be some exceptions. Like maybe you already were in a relationship when you met the guy, so nothing happenened besides friendship. However, if the girl is single and dating but puts you in the friendzone? She's simply not attracted.

 

Don't try to be her friend if you want to date her, won't work out for you. If you act like her friend, you'll be her friend. You have to make clear from the start that you're interested

[ZA Dater]

How unusual then would it for someone who isn't single to friend zone a guy who she knows liker her?

 

In some respects with this thread I am trying to metaphorically make a pizza from a few crumbs of dough.

 

In essence you either win outright when you first meet someone or you loose outright, there is no middle ground?

[basil67]

>>FWIW, if a guy had no women in his social groups, I'd probably be dubious about him. Why? Because it shows me that he has trouble relating to women. Or doesn't like women. Or can't ever find anything in common with a woman. Any of these would make him a poor candidate for a romantic partner.<<

 

ZA Dater, you said it's the bit in bold which kills most guys stone dead.

 

It's not 'most guys' who this kills off. Most guys can talk easily with women. They see us as the same species and treat us accordingly.

 

But perhaps you are referring to yourself? Before getting a girlfriend, you need to be able be comfortable with women. It's essential that you genuinely like the company of women if you're to get a woman attracted to you. If you can't talk to female friends and have easy banter, then you need to work on your social skills before your dating skills.

Edited June 28, 2016 by basil67

[basil67]

In essence you either win outright when you first meet someone or you loose outright, there is no middle ground?

 

The middle ground is friendship. And the knowledge that through socialising with her, you may well meet some of her female friends.

 

If you see adding a woman to your friend circle as 'losing', then it doesn't say much about how you view the company of women.

[ZA Dater]

>>FWIW, if a guy had no women in his social groups, I'd probably be dubious about him. Why? Because it shows me that he has trouble relating to women. Or doesn't like women. Or can't ever find anything in common with a woman. Any of these would make him a poor candidate for a romantic partner.<<

 

ZA Dater, you said it's the bit in bold which kills most guys stone dead.

 

It's not 'most guys' who this kills off. Most guys can talk easily with women. They see us as the same species and treat us accordingly.

 

But perhaps you are referring to yourself? Before getting a girlfriend, you need to be able be comfortable with women. It's essential that you genuinely like the company of women if you're to get a woman attracted to you. If you can't talk to female friends and have easy banter, then you need to work on your social skills before your dating skills.

 

I'd agree with you but lets accept those who struggle battle to relate to people per se, my point is for those people, surely the friend zone is better than nothing even if nothing more will ever come of it? Lets also accept they cant find common ground.

 

This forum is littered with people like this and I was just thinking that maybe getting into a friend zone with someone nice be a partial solution to the battle, to simply have the companionship.

 

This isn't about me its more a general but in terms of me I battle to relate to anyone guys and ladies.

[ZA Dater]

The middle ground is friendship. And the knowledge that through socialising with her, you may well meet some of her female friends.

 

If you see adding a woman to your friend circle as 'losing', then it doesn't say much about how you view the company of women.

 

I cannot tell you how much the bold part grates me, I'd hate someone to be my friend simply to try and meet people through me.

[ZA Dater]

The middle ground is friendship. And the knowledge that through socialising with her, you may well meet some of her female friends.

 

If you see adding a woman to your friend circle as 'losing', then it doesn't say much about how you view the company of women.

 

It is loosing if you like her and she doesn't like you.

[todreaminblue]

i feel there are women who date friends...i am one......my attraction towards a man grows over time normally when i get to see how they interact with other people...how they treat me..how they treat children..how they treat the check out chick or waitress..how they treat the elderly...their mums and dads...if they volunteer their time to help others.........how courteous they are to women or how gentlemanly.......lots of things i wouldnt see if i werent closer to them than just physical attraction ...i like to be able to have conversations see where their head is at...in values and beliefs close to my heart.......i want to know them...i want them to know me...and i want to feel interest reciprocated.....i dont want to waste their time or mine

beign friends with a guy allows me to open up to them and for them to open up to me.......without pressure....

 

 

i only want to start dating with a firm purpose in mind...and that is a relationship that has potential for more than just dating...and i dont have sex...i am celibate till marriage..... so...friendship really is a must i guess for me...i dotn just date for the sake of going out...so i dont date "just friends"...i date guys who are my friends whom i see more than just a friend ..i dotn lead my guy friends on either...i dont think i have orbiters...i feel they are my friends and they accept me as such....because they like me....like i like them..maybe i am deluded though...so many peopel against friendship.....i feel a lover has to eb yoru best friend...my guys i have had relationships with...always had that my best friend status...even

over women friends i have had.........deb

[Ensam]

Yes. In fact nearly all the women that has displayed some sort of interest or affection for me has started out as my friend. It's not as black or white as people always instantly knowing what they want. Sometimes you also meet at the wrong time like if she's currently in a relationship about to go down the drain or just been through a bad breakup.

 

I also think it has to do with who you are and who she is. It would seem more likely for it to happen if you have more personal qualities that takes time getting to know and if she is more inclined to go for such qualities over looks or social status.

 

But to use friendships as a stepping stone for dating seems like a recipe for wasting a lot of time and getting disappointed. Make friends because you like these people and want them in your life - be open for the possibility that the two of you could end up as something more if you wish - but don't count on it in any way.

[Jabron1]

Yes. In fact nearly all the women that has displayed some sort of interest or affection for me has started out as my friend.

 

Mate, I've had that plenty too. That's not the friendzone. That's a girl orbiting you, and waiting for you to make the move.

 

The friendzone is when a woman isn't sexually attracted to you, and you hang around trying to convince her. It's a real waste of time.

 

Maybe the guy has asked her out, or made a move, and she rebuffed it. But she wants to keep him around for whatever reason, so she offers the branch of friendship. That is the friendzone, and it straight up sucks.

 

My cousin (who is female) has a guy in the friendzone at the moment. He is orbiting her hard, and trying to win her affections by doing stuff like a chode. Since he has been around so much, driving her places, doing things for her, and turning up at family parties, I asked her if they are some sort of item. She was disgusted at the suggestion

 

It's always nice to be reminded of the basics.

[ZA Dater]

Mate, I've had that plenty too. That's not the friendzone. That's a girl orbiting you, and waiting for you to make the move.

 

The friendzone is when a woman isn't sexually attracted to you, and you hang around trying to convince her. It's a real waste of time.

 

Maybe the guy has asked her out, or made a move, and she rebuffed it. But she wants to keep him around for whatever reason, so she offers the branch of friendship. That is the friendzone, and it straight up sucks.

 

My cousin (who is female) has a guy in the friendzone at the moment. He is orbiting her hard, and trying to win her affections by doing stuff like a chode. Since he has been around so much, driving her places, doing things for her, and turning up at family parties, I asked her if they are some sort of item. She was disgusted at the suggestion

 

It's always nice to be reminded of the basics.

 

For some guys that's the best they can do.

[elaine567]

Mate, I've had that plenty too. That's not the friendzone. That's a girl orbiting you, and waiting for you to make the move.

 

The friendzone is when a woman isn't sexually attracted to you, and you hang around trying to convince her. It's a real waste of time.

 

Maybe the guy has asked her out, or made a move, and she rebuffed it. But she wants to keep him around for whatever reason, so she offers the branch of friendship. That is the friendzone, and it straight up sucks.

 

My cousin (who is female) has a guy in the friendzone at the moment. He is orbiting her hard, and trying to win her affections by doing stuff like a chode. Since he has been around so much, driving her places, doing things for her, and turning up at family parties, I asked her if they are some sort of item. She was disgusted at the suggestion

 

It's always nice to be reminded of the basics.

 

Agreed.

That IS how it usually works, IME too.

 

 

The friendzone is when a woman isn't sexually attracted to you, and you hang around trying to convince her. It's a real waste of time.

 

Maybe the guy has asked her out, or made a move, and she rebuffed it. But she wants to keep him around for whatever reason, so she offers the branch of friendship. That is the friendzone, and it straight up sucks.

 

ZA Dater - K put you into the friend zone - you went on a date, she was not attracted to you, she now has a bf, but is quite happy to be your friend and colleague.

Be happy being colleagues, if you want to be, but do not build up any hopes here of anything further, is my advice.