Had a big fight, don't know if I did the right thing

[mishy]

About two years ago I met a guy and we became very good friends. Kind of like Elaine and jerry on Seinfeld, helping each other with our respective dating woes etc.

 

During that time I kind of knew he drank a bit, as sometimes, I'd get drunk messages and heaps and heaps on any one night with none making sense. But I wasn't really concerned as I wasn't romantically involved with him until about a week ago when we just kind of realised that we had something. He is 44.

 

Recently he found out he had to move, and because i had a spare room and he was desperate, I decided to offer it to him. And he was going to move in in early April .

 

We slept together for the first time this weekend just gone and I felt really happy, he was really happy too , everything was great.

 

Then last night he texted and called me, drunk, wanting me to come over immediately and go out and "party" . I said look I can't just drop everything and come in 5 minutes and he ended up hanging up on me. He has done this before, wants me to drop everything and come over NOW.

 

I was really angry that he could just call and demand something and then hang up and leave me, not caring about how I felt.

 

So I decided to drive over as I have a key, and see what goes on when he is like this at home. I let myself in and he was really happy to see me, he was listening to music , pretty much going mental dancing, but he was doing things like spitting on the floor, and then he got naked and was peeing out the window , and then he spilt win all over me. I didn't have much to drink just a few sips as I was driving home soon.

 

I love a drink and we did get drunk last Friday night and had a fantastic time out dancing at clubs. But I'm not someone who gets plastered at home on a random week night for no reason, and not someone who would get drunk more than once a week. I don't drink much. I probably get "drunk" maybe 3 times a year.

 

I'm 45" I've done all that in my 20s and early 30s and I just want to be healthy. He has done it too, he spent most of his 20s and 30s as a musician. And it seems like he hasn't left that kind of lifestyle behind.

 

So it dawned on me last night watching him that this is what I'll be living with. Drunkeness. And I thought, I just can't. So I asked him is this what's going to happen at my place. And he assured me no, it's your house and I wouldn't. But I'm wasn't sure if I believed him. I remember when he lived at his sisters in 2013, he told me they kept saying to him to grow up, and I started remembering I'd get drunken messages from him when he was living there too and then I thought , it's not going to be any different at my house is it?

 

So I said I am not sure about him moving in, and I said seriously if you are like this every week , I can't have you there. He said oh I only do it maybe once or twice a week, and I just shook my head and left. The discussion went on for about 30 minutes, but stupidly I shouldn't have even brought it up when he was drunk, but I did.

 

So I left , and left him with the impression that he couldn't move in. Then I got about a hundred text messages all night telling me to "die" , calling me a bitch, swearing at me, calling me names. Etc etc. because I have left him in the lurch with only two weeks now before he has to move out of his flat.

 

The abuse I got was incredible. And ironic because this is what he is obviously liek when he is drunk, and how could I live with that? How could I believe that he wouldn't be drunk every night? Even one night a week like what I saw last night, I just don't want in my house. Spitting etc.

 

I did the right thing didn't i? He said such horrible things

[badpenny]

You absolutely, definitely did the right thing.

He's a grown man, in his mid-40's, not a teen you have to cosset, guide, steer and to an extent, govern.

 

Let him find his own place, and man up, take responsibility and grow a spine.

 

And well done you for reflecting on previous experience and getting it.

 

Drunks lie, and the first person they're deceiving, is themselves.

[snowflakes88]

You *absolutely* did the right thing. No question.

[GorillaTheater]

Peeing out the window can be hell on your flowerbeds after a while.

 

You absolutely did the right thing.

[mishy]

You *absolutely* did the right thing. No question.

 

thankyou so much for answering

 

I just am starting to feel terrible about indicating a probably dont want him to move in, meaning he has only two weeks to find a place.

 

Really i shouldnt have talked about his drinking to him WHILE he was drunk, but in reality if he moved in with me, i would have to deal with him when he is drunk

 

He is not a good drunk to be around. he is pushy and obnoxious, like a 3 year old

 

He said he wont be like that at my house. But how do i know that? Would he get comfy and then it would start to creep in? Just my gut feeling

[mishy]

Peeing out the window can be hell on your flowerbeds after a while.

 

You absolutely did the right thing.

 

When he did that, i said to him are you going to do that at my place? and he said no, because this is a sh***hole, and yours is beautiful, id never do it there.

 

But, how could i know his drunken behaviour would magically end at my doorstop, that small actions of disrespect like that just wouldnt start?

 

I feel so dead in my heart, about all the nasty things he said, telling me to "go die". he sent literally 50 messages just telling me to die... then all other abusive words

[mishy]

i just feel so awful

[rester]

 

 

So I left , and left him with the impression that he couldn't move in. Then I got about a hundred text messages all night telling me to "die" , calling me a bitch, swearing at me, calling me names. Etc etc. because I have left him in the lurch with only two weeks now before he has to move out of his flat.

 

The abuse I got was incredible. And ironic because this is what he is obviously liek when he is drunk, and how could I live with that? How could I believe that he wouldn't be drunk every night? Even one night a week like what I saw last night, I just don't want in my house. Spitting etc.

 

You did the right thing. Being drunk is no excuse for verbally abusing you. I wouldn't spend any more time with him alone after that, let alone have him move in with you. He screwed that up. Maybe it'll be a wake-up call for himself.

[mishy]

You absolutely, definitely did the right thing.

He's a grown man, in his mid-40's, not a teen you have to cosset, guide, steer and to an extent, govern.

 

Let him find his own place, and man up, take responsibility and grow a spine.

 

And well done you for reflecting on previous experience and getting it.

 

Drunks lie, and the first person they're deceiving, is themselves.

 

thankyou

 

when i was talking about his drinking he said "You are just trying to find roadblocks to us falling in love"

He doesnt get it that his drinking IS a roadblock and its a massive turn off seeing a drunk naked 44 year old man spitting all over his carpet, playing air guitar and pissing out the window. Aphrodisiac not. and i told him so

[mishy]

You did the right thing. Being drunk is no excuse for verbally abusing you. I wouldn't spend any more time with him alone after that, let alone have him move in with you. He screwed that up. Maybe it'll be a wake-up call for himself.

 

 

i am pretty hurt by some of the insults, they were pretty personal. Ive been crying, because i just thought he was a nice guy. I just thought he would never hurt me

[Lorelai]

i am pretty hurt by some of the insults, they were pretty personal. Ive been crying, because i just thought he was a nice guy. I just thought he would never hurt me

 

Honey, I hate to say this, but it sounds like he's an alcoholic. And alcoholics often have what some call "Jekyll and Hyde" moments -- they may be legitimately good people sober, but the alcohol changes their personality significantly.

 

Personally, I can't deal with drunks. My dad was a drunk and a drug addict, and I used up all my "give a damn" on him. I simply have no tolerance for their bull**** anymore.

 

When Mom remarried, her new husband was a bad alcoholic for nearly a decade, and he and I got into it too many times to count. He was an utter jackass to me, including taking my mother's cell phone and texting me awful things allegedly from her, like that she never wanted to see me again.

 

It came to a head a few days after my grandmother's funeral, when he got upset at a friend of mine (I had just gotten out of the mental hospital before the funeral, and was on heavy medication -- Mom had wanted me to stay with her because she was worried about me, but I knew it'd be a bad idea because of him, so we had compromised by me leaving my meds at her house and coming over to take them in front of her twice a day).

 

We were inside doing the medication thing when her husband stormed into the house and went into the back bedroom. I said "He's getting his gun, Mom." "Oh, no, he'd never do that." I was right. I got between him and the front door, because if he took it outside he would be breaking the law (self-defense goes out the window in my state if you were able to go into your house to get the firearm -- obviously you were able to retreat, and even if he'd just waved it around like he was saying he wanted to, it would have been aggravated assault.)

 

He wouldn't listen to Mom, and she got all close to him and up in his body space begging him to put the gun down. When I saw he wasn't listening, I finally said his name very loudly, from the doorway. He looked at me, and naturally pointed it at me (I didn't care, at least it wasn't going to hit Mom if he accidentally squeezed the trigger -- no trigger finger discipline with this man even when he was sober).

 

I said "Put. That. ****ing. Gun. Down. NOW!" And fortunately, he did.

 

About a year later, he started vomiting blood, was admitted to the hospital, and told his liver was failing (he had burst an esophageal varices, which was what caused the bleeding). He quit drinking. Now, he and I get along rather well, and his liver is getting better, too.

 

-----

 

A good resource for the family and friends of alcoholics is Al-Anon. Mom ended up attending unofficial "online" meetings, because he was extremely jealous and didn't want her going anywhere, and I think it helped save her sanity -- she still loved him and didn't want to leave him, but it helped her learn how to set boundaries, etc.

 

Good luck, hon.

[CC12]

Of course you did the right thing.

 

I have a feeling you would have ended up letting him move in even after witnessing his drunken behavior that night. I think you would have forgiven him and trusted his word when he said he wouldn't behave that way at your house. But he completely sabotaged any chances he had of staying with you when he sent you dozens of abusive messages over the span of several hours. That is unforgivable, no matter how drunk or angry he was.

 

So when you talk to him about not moving in, don't make it so much about his drinking. He will have a million excuses and make promises that it won't be a problem. And he will be very convincing because alcoholics give themselves these same excuses and promises every day. Instead, focus the conversation on the horrible things he said to you that night. There's no defense for that.

 

Not that I think you need to explain or justify your decision, I just want to caution you against having a discussion about his sobriety at this time. Nothing good would come from it. You can't help him. You two are in a very strange place right now - there's almost a landlord-tenant thing going on, you're in a brand spanking new romantic relationship, you're both pissed at each other - I say just stay away from the topic of his alcoholism. It's just, "You can't move in because of your abusive behavior." And, obviously, I think taking a long break from this friendship is necessary right now.

 

Sorry about your friendship. It's a blessing it happened before he moved in, though.

[mishy]

Honey, I hate to say this, but it sounds like he's an alcoholic. And alcoholics often have what some call "Jekyll and Hyde" moments -- they may be legitimately good people sober, but the alcohol changes their personality significantly.

 

Personally, I can't deal with drunks. My dad was a drunk and a drug addict, and I used up all my "give a damn" on him. I simply have no tolerance for their bull**** anymore.

 

When Mom remarried, her new husband was a bad alcoholic for nearly a decade, and he and I got into it too many times to count. He was an utter jackass to me, including taking my mother's cell phone and texting me awful things allegedly from her, like that she never wanted to see me again.

 

It came to a head a few days after my grandmother's funeral, when he got upset at a friend of mine (I had just gotten out of the mental hospital before the funeral, and was on heavy medication -- Mom had wanted me to stay with her because she was worried about me, but I knew it'd be a bad idea because of him, so we had compromised by me leaving my meds at her house and coming over to take them in front of her twice a day).

 

We were inside doing the medication thing when her husband stormed into the house and went into the back bedroom. I said "He's getting his gun, Mom." "Oh, no, he'd never do that." I was right. I got between him and the front door, because if he took it outside he would be breaking the law (self-defense goes out the window in my state if you were able to go into your house to get the firearm -- obviously you were able to retreat, and even if he'd just waved it around like he was saying he wanted to, it would have been aggravated assault.)

 

He wouldn't listen to Mom, and she got all close to him and up in his body space begging him to put the gun down. When I saw he wasn't listening, I finally said his name very loudly, from the doorway. He looked at me, and naturally pointed it at me (I didn't care, at least it wasn't going to hit Mom if he accidentally squeezed the trigger -- no trigger finger discipline with this man even when he was sober).

 

I said "Put. That. ****ing. Gun. Down. NOW!" And fortunately, he did.

 

About a year later, he started vomiting blood, was admitted to the hospital, and told his liver was failing (he had burst an esophageal varices, which was what caused the bleeding). He quit drinking. Now, he and I get along rather well, and his liver is getting better, too.

 

-----

 

A good resource for the family and friends of alcoholics is Al-Anon. Mom ended up attending unofficial "online" meetings, because he was extremely jealous and didn't want her going anywhere, and I think it helped save her sanity -- she still loved him and didn't want to leave him, but it helped her learn how to set boundaries, etc.

 

Good luck, hon.

 

 

thankyou Lorelai

 

I do wonder what would have happened if he had been angry at me, AND i had physically been there. Instead of sending me texts saying "DIE" "JUST DIE" maybe he would have physically hurt me?

 

the whole thing is a massive shame, because you are right , when he is sober he is amazing, probably the nicest guy i have ever met. So when i got the texts i was frozen in shock. Its not even the drunkenness that is the worst, its the product of, its the texts i got

[mishy]

Of course you did the right thing.

 

I have a feeling you would have ended up letting him move in even after witnessing his drunken behavior that night. I think you would have forgiven him and trusted his word when he said he wouldn't behave that way at your house. But he completely sabotaged any chances he had of staying with you when he sent you dozens of abusive messages over the span of several hours. That is unforgivable, no matter how drunk or angry he was.

 

So when you talk to him about not moving in, don't make it so much about his drinking. He will have a million excuses and make promises that it won't be a problem. And he will be very convincing because alcoholics give themselves these same excuses and promises every day. Instead, focus the conversation on the horrible things he said to you that night. There's no defense for that.

 

Not that I think you need to explain or justify your decision, I just want to caution you against having a discussion about his sobriety at this time. Nothing good would come from it. You can't help him. You two are in a very strange place right now - there's almost a landlord-tenant thing going on, you're in a brand spanking new romantic relationship, you're both pissed at each other - I say just stay away from the topic of his alcoholism. It's just, "You can't move in because of your abusive behavior." And, obviously, I think taking a long break from this friendship is necessary right now.

 

Sorry about your friendship. It's a blessing it happened before he moved in, though.

 

 

thankyou. I think if he moved in, it would happen, and probably worse. I dont see how things would have been different when he moved in

 

i cant believe he said those things to me

[Lorelai]

thankyou Lorelai

 

I do wonder what would have happened if he had been angry at me, AND i had physically been there. Instead of sending me texts saying "DIE" "JUST DIE" maybe he would have physically hurt me?

 

the whole thing is a massive shame, because you are right , when he is sober he is amazing, probably the nicest guy i have ever met. So when i got the texts i was frozen in shock. Its not even the drunkenness that is the worst, its the product of, its the texts i got

 

Hey, if all drunks were happy drunks all the time, I wouldn't have a problem with drinking, either. The few times that I drink, I'm apparently a happy drunk (when they can even tell I'm drunk at all, apparently I have a knack of looking and acting sober even when I'm on the edge of blackout -- that's part of why I don't drink much, cuz I have a feeling if I ever did I could be an alcoholic myself pretty quickly).

 

It's not the booze I can't stand, it's the way people end up behaving while boozed up that gets me. Even sad drunks get on my nerves, because you can never cheer them up (my mother has had her share of sad drunken times -- one NYE I was the designated driver for her and my sis and bro-in-law, and I remember her crying in the parking lot saying "I try to be good....")

 

But angry drunks are the worst. And no, I wouldn't trust them enough to physically be around a person who gets that angry when intoxicated. Alcohol is too closely linked to domestic violence, even if it doesn't necessarily cause it -- if he uses the excuse that he's been drinking to justify verbal violence, he'd use the same excuse to justify physical violence.

[mishy]

Hey, if all drunks were happy drunks all the time, I wouldn't have a problem with drinking, either. The few times that I drink, I'm apparently a happy drunk (when they can even tell I'm drunk at all, apparently I have a knack of looking and acting sober even when I'm on the edge of blackout -- that's part of why I don't drink much, cuz I have a feeling if I ever did I could be an alcoholic myself pretty quickly).

 

It's not the booze I can't stand, it's the way people end up behaving while boozed up that gets me. Even sad drunks get on my nerves, because you can never cheer them up (my mother has had her share of sad drunken times -- one NYE I was the designated driver for her and my sis and bro-in-law, and I remember her crying in the parking lot saying "I try to be good....")

 

But angry drunks are the worst. And no, I wouldn't trust them enough to physically be around a person who gets that angry when intoxicated. Alcohol is too closely linked to domestic violence, even if it doesn't necessarily cause it -- if he uses the excuse that he's been drinking to justify verbal violence, he'd use the same excuse to justify physical violence.

 

thanks Lorelai

 

he is an obnoxious drunk, and i didnt realise or process that he was an angry drunk until yesterday

 

but i was thinking back to something he told me last year. He has two kids, and his ex stopped access for a short time because of an angry text message he sent her and it was something *threatening*

 

I am also remembering that over time he has commented that his ex has told him specifically not to text her when he is drunk, and also his personal trainer has told him he is not allowed to post on her facebook when he is drunk. So all these little pieces are coming together

 

i shouldnt have gone over there and talked to him about his drinking WHILE he was drunk but then i remember that if he moved in and he was drunk and i brought it up then, i would have the same situation possibly, but in my house

 

i feel so empty. I feel sad for the loss of our friendship, sad for the loss of a new lover, sad that i have made his situation difficult as he will be super stressed about finding a place to live, sad that yet another guy has come up with all kinds of red flags, but that i really thought for a long time he was a nice guy

[Satu]

Any connection you allow to persist with this man will be a source of problems.

 

You don't need him and he doesn't need you.

 

You need someone who isn't totally dysfunctional, and he needs rehab.

[Arieswoman]

Mishy,

Why in the name of sweet reason would you want to spend/give any more of your precious time to someone who behaves like this?

 

So I decided to drive over as I have a key, and see what goes on when he is like this at home. I let myself in and he was really happy to see me, he was listening to music , pretty much going mental dancing, but he was doing things like spitting on the floor, and then he got naked and was peeing out the window , and then he spilt win all over me. I didn't have much to drink just a few sips as I was driving home soon.

 

Raise the bar, dump this drunk and get a guy who treats you with respect and wants a sober relationship.

[Lorelai]

i feel so empty. I feel sad for the loss of our friendship, sad for the loss of a new lover, sad that i have made his situation difficult as he will be super stressed about finding a place to live, sad that yet another guy has come up with all kinds of red flags, but that i really thought for a long time he was a nice guy

 

Hold up, and read that bolded part.

 

Now think about it. *You* have not made his situation more difficult. You did not cause whatever situation is making him have to move. I'm willing to bet money he brought whatever it was on himself.

 

Even if you are a friend, you are under no moral obligation to let someone live with you just because they need a place to stay and you have a spare room. It's not your responsibility to keep a roof over his head. If you had let him move in, it would have been you doing him a favor. And a mighty big one at that.

 

And just like I suspect he somehow caused the situation that is making him have to move, the fact you aren't willing to let him move in now is yet another thing he has brought upon himself with his actions.

 

You don't owe him anything, let alone a place to live.

 

This kind of thinking is something that Al-Anon tries to address. The result of acting on that kind of thinking is called "enabling" -- if you take it upon yourself to improve his situation, you aren't letting him grow and change like he needs to. Instead, you're letting him continue the self-destructive behavior patterns that caused the situation in the first place. It may feel like you're helping, but you really aren't.

 

Picture it like this: imagine that a friend gets an illness, and because of it they can't get out of bed easily. So you clean their house, and take them food, and make it where they don't have to get out of bed at all. You feel like you're helping them, right? But if you take away all need for them to try to get up and around, they won't try... and their muscles will start to atrophy. So they get weaker, and naturally, you feel like you have to keep on being their legs -- which just makes the situation worse.

 

Until he has a reason to make positive change, he won't. And if the people in his life keep bailing him out of everything, he'll never have a reason. Finding that reason is sometimes referred to as "hitting bottom" -- because often it's a really sucky situation that is their wake-up call. Losing someone they care about, going to jail... or in my stepfather's case, losing 4 pints of blood and not being able to be more than a minute away from a toilet because the medication to keep him alive gives him the runs.

 

We hate to see people we care about suffer. But protecting him from the negative consequences of his actions means he'll never get better.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Lorelai

[beyond]

Mishy, I mean this kindly....looking back on your past posts you have always been with men who are abusive to you in one way or another and you keep going back to them.

I think it would be wise to seek counselling on why you are attracted to men who treat you like this

[CC12]

How are things going, mishy? Have you two spoken since that weird night? Is he still going to move in with you?