Not sure if all of you will agree with this, but if enough do maybe the admin might think of putting this as a sticky.
I've been reading and giving advice to alot of people on here, which mainly are spouses who are cheating, distancing themselves or abusing the other in some way emotionally.
Now granted, every situation IS different, and each situation is unique in itself but I have found out some major underlying reasons why relationships turn sour.
There is always the chance that the other spouse is just a 'bad' person, who is selfish for no other reason but their own, but taking a closer look this happens very few times, believe it or not. When one person is cheated on that is their first instinct of thought/feeling. In fact that would probably be my first reaction too, but taking a step back and looking at the situation one can find the following:
- The ability to have effective, good communication between the spouses or mates. It's easy to just talk to your SO, but to truly understand what they are saying and taking it to heart when appropirate. Also the ability to take critism from another spouse without getting into an argument.
Here is usually what starts an argument:
- Wife says to Husband about something that is bothering her on what he's doing, or perhaps he's not doing enough of.
- In any event of what her negative comment was about, the husband feels like he disappointed her. Men HATE this feeling. Men are suppose to be the knights in shining armor. Men love feeling looked at with amouration.
- When men feel this disappointment, we go into self-defense mode. We try to explain to you why YOU shouldn't feel this way.
- Women, unknowing of how we hate feeling this disappointment, sees their spouse as just plain not understanding the situation, which then in turn makes her feel like her point is not validated, or something that is not worth his attention.
- Woman gets upset, which just makes the disappointment and confusion for the man even greater, thus getting him upset.
- Arguement starts.
This all lays now with the person receiving the negative comment, or critism. When your receiving a comment like this, instead of first saying on WHY they shouldn't feel this way the best thing to do is tell your mate 'I understand, and looking back I could have done things different', but then state your case in a non-threatening way.
By telling your SO 'I understand' you actually disarm them. You totally shut down any defenses they have prepared before even telling you how they feel. Especially if there has been alot of argueing going on in the past. They feel validated, and understood. Which makes them more open to your suggestions about the situation.
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When alot of argueing is done over the months/years, a SO will start to distance themselves emotionally from the other. This is also done when their emotional needs aren't met. When a SO feels like a relationship is more work than enjoyment, then they start to either look to fill the voids in their current relationship with someone else, or move on entirely. A relationship always takes work, but it shouldn't feel like work!
I've read and given advice on quite a few situations in here, and found out that usually the one that is dumped or cheated on will eventually come out to say they neglected their SO in some way or another. This is very easy to do when you get too comfortable with someone. Getting too comfortable with someone to the point of taking them for granted is also a starting point for the other SO to look elsewhere. Doing thing that may cause this feeling could include:
- Lack of saying "I love you" or telling your SO why you love them
- Stopping of doing the little things
- Lack of emotion and letting yourself open up to your SO
- Even though you are married for a long time you stopped going out on dates with them
- You no longer do anything together, just a simple thing like going for a walk can give so much to each other
Think back the past month and recall if you have done anything to make your SO feel negative or defensive. If so, you need to work on yourself and your relationship.
Think before you speak! Is it really worth complaining to your partner everyday about something they have done wrong? It is worth making that person feel defensive and negative just so that you may feel a little ego boost or better about yourself? Choose your disagreements wisely. Before speaking, first take into account is it really worth that much to you to start this topic.
When in an agruement and you feel like you are about to say something you shouldn't, just walk away. Gather up your thoughts and come back later. Tell your spouse 'I don't feel like talking about this anymore, when I do I will come to you'. This is letting your partner know you are frustrated, but that you haven't ignored the situation so their feelings are still met in a positive light. This is very important, because arguements can get heated very fast and things that aren't meant are spoken.
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Dealing with cheating and flirtation of others, etc..
I have read numerous posts about SO's flirting with other men/women and how to stop it. What the poster fails to realize that he needs to deal with the issues and not the topics. The topic, believe it or not is about the SO flirting or cheating with another person. The issues is WHY is this happening. Even if we could forcefully stop the SO from doing these things, this will only be temporary. Until you deal with what has led them to this, this will continue either in the current form, or another.
Think of it as a weed. You don't like that weed but by just pulling out the leaves (dealing with the topic) you temporarily have some relief that the affiar is over, however the roots are still in the ground it's only a matter of time before the leaves grow back (another affair happens). Pulling this weed out by the roots will cause the topics (the affairs) to disappear entirely. As you put more time and effort into your garden, you'll notice more flowers and the less of a threat of weeds.
So, how can you find out what is causing this, and more importantly deal with the causes? My first suggestion is to find a licensed marriage counselor who has certifications in this field. Calling a local hospital will help you, or the internet is also a good place. However when the person being cheated on asks the SO on WHY they did this, at first most likely their response will be 'I don't know', and it's because they truly don't. Going through counseling and just plain old time will reveal the true reason. If they do tell you because they feel like they were missing out on alot, due to emotional neglect, etc.. you need to accept this as their answer and not get defensive. It's easy to blame the SO for the cheating while not being very objective on how you treated this person over the past months/years.
Rarely will a strong, good, loving relationship still result into an affair with someone else. Yes it does happen, but for arguement's sake you need to be very honest about yourself and what has happened in the past. However this isn't the only reason why people cheat. They don't cheat to hurt the SO. They do it for alot of other reasons that you may not understand. Each situation is unique, therefore going to a marriage counselor is beneficial.
If two people love each other enough, they can get through anything. Forgiveness of past transgressions is vital to pursue a loving, happy relationship after damage has been done. You can't love 100% with a broken heart. However, you still can love. You can mend the cracked foundation of a relationship with love, trust, companionship, and friendship. Everybody has their own threshhold and breaking point. What one person might endure may be too much for another and call their realationship quits. It's all up to that certain individual.
Too often I heard on these boards to just 'leave the cheater', and then say some not so nice comments. Please remember you are not in their shoes and only hearing one side of the story.
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Last but not all, treat your spouse like the way you want to be treated. When you find yourself treating your dog better then your SO, then you know something is terribly wrong. Stand up for what you believe in, but say it in a way that keeps you proud of yourself. Remember they are there because they love you. Think and treat this as a gift. Out of all the billions of people in the world, they chose you. They chose you for all the good you possess. Give them what they seek. For you never know when they might not be with you anymore. You don't know what you have until you wake up that morning and see that they aren't laying beside you anymore.
Last edited by jmargel; 3rd September 2004 at 2:11 PM.
That was an excellent post and I vote that the admin makes it into a sticky.
Quote:
If two people love each other enough, they can get through anything. Forgiveness of past transgressions is vital to pursue a loving, happy relationship after damage has been done. You can't love 100% with a broken heart. However, you still can love. You can mend the cracked foundation of a relationship with love, trust, companionship, and friendship. Everybody has their own threshhold and breaking point. What one person might endure may be too much for another and call their realationship quits. It's all up to that certain individual.
Ah but everybody has a different definition on what 'love' is and more so when you are talking about the genders. A man will most likely define what love is very differently than a woman will. Their different definitions of love will be based on their own emotional needs. For most men the most important emotional needs are:
Sexual fulfillment- We know what this one is.
Recreational Companionship - He needs her to be his playmate.
Attractive Spouse - He needs a good-looking wife.
Domestic Support - He needs peace and quiet.
Admiration - He needs her to be proud of him.
On the other hand, for most women the most important emotional needs are:
Affection - She needs to have love expressed without it becoming a prelude to sex.
Conversation - She needs him to talk to her.
Honesty - She needs to trust him totally.
Financial Support - She needs enough money to live comfortably.
Family Committment - She needs him to be a good father.
If BOTH spouses do their best to fulfill each others most important emotional needs then an affair becomes less likely to occur for they won't be starved emotionally.
__________________ "If You Could See Yourself Through My Eyes, You Would Never Again Question Your Beauty"
Very insightful and sensitive! The single women on this site should be asking if you are available. In my research to identify what was actually happening in my own marriage, I came upon a few things that really helped, it is very similar to your theory.
Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 4th September 2004 at 1:55 AM.
Reason: Removed copyrighted text.
Don't want to take the wind out of your sails, but pretty much what you've said has been said by John Grey and Dr. Phil and a bunch of other marriage and relationship advisors. However, people never read those books until it's too late or else they get in trouble, see a counsellor, and then reach some conclusions on their own, as you have.
However, clearly people don't read those books so you do a service by passing on the info. Most of the stuff I tell people I learned elsewhere. Or maybe thought I thought up but then found out that my 'revelation' was something that had already been written by someone else
__________________
I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to my fellow creatures, let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
I still think it's wonderful that he could arrive at these realizations without reading the books.
SO WHAT if it's been written already? Pretty much EVERYTHING has been written already. But then someone comes along who says the same thing but just a few shades differently so that a new group of people go 'Heyyy...that was deep!'
We all arrive at insights in our own way. Some people do so by reading, some by talking to a lot of people, some through spiritual enlightenment and some through art.
Why do you sound so irritated that 'most people haven't read those books'?
Not irritated at all. I wish there was some way to persuade people to read some of the books, though. Wouldn't it be great if people learned some of this stuff before they make really big mistakes and end up sabotaging their relationships?
There are some things about Mars and Venus that drove me nuts and some things about John Grey that also drive me nuts, but the part about men wanting to feel like they're doing well and being upset when they think things are being found 'wrong' with them and some other similar insights that he wrote about were very useful to know. Grey may be a bit of a POTA, but even POTAs can teach us stuff.
My BF is a BRILLIANT guy but he HATES to read. He's a real type-A type, very driven and very hyper.
He learns via listening, talking to others and actively participating in something. He's not a reading-oriented learner and some people just aren't that way.
I wish everyone would sit down and read 'Madame Bovary' and learn from that (it's got everything! sex, passion, adultry, desire), but some people will never appreciate it. They find the old-fashioned language tedious and stilted. It just doesn't melt their marshmallow, if you get my drift.
Sure, we should all learn from the past. But really, didn't you have to plunge ahead and make a lot of your own mistakes your own way?
But really, didn't you have to plunge ahead and make a lot of your own mistakes your own way?
People keep saying that, but I think most of us would prefer to save people suffering if we possibly could. I actually do try to learn stuff in order to avoid smacking into problems. I've had a goodly helping of troubles in my time and I'll be perfectly happy not to have to learn by making mistakes at all anymore if I can help it. It wasn't even so much mistakes as just not realizing how the world really worked and how people really can be that bit me in the butt.
I think maybe people who lost people in their lives because they took them for granted or treated them badly or just didn't know how to relate well may learn lessons from the losses, but still, wouldn't it be great if that didn't have to happen?
These are things that I just observed from reading situations on here, and looking back on my past. I'm still guilty of not following my own advice at times. I get wrapped up in the moment and don't think before I speak. I'm the stubborn type and I need to break that of myself.
Quote:
"If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all." That's on your list, isn't it, JMargel.
I don't want to get into the middle of your arguement, this post wasn't to start that. But you can say something negative, as long as it's in a constructive way. It's not really about what you are trying to say, but it's about the way you say it.
I can make a negative comment to someone one way and have them offended and get defensive very easily, while saying it in another way might make them think and consider my comments in a positive light.
jmargel, your post was very on the mark and insightful. If both of the people in the relationship would do all of that, it would be awesome!!
It seems like we never can get all the steps right together as a couple, someone is always lagging behind or just doesn't get it. I just get tired of trying to do it all (the steps and the advice). It's almost like to have a successful relationship, you can't just relax, enjoy it and have fun, it's all work, work, work.....What's he thinking? Am I doing this right? Oh okay I need to do this so he will do this and respond accordingly.....sometimes I just wish we could read each other's freaking minds. Sometimes I don't even know what I want, why can't he figure it out and tell me??
Does it ever get to the point that it's effortless to be happy in a marriage? Is there anyone that has been married over 15 yrs and is totally happy? Not perfectly happy but getting at least 90% of what they need and want out of the marriage with the spouse feeling the same way too??
I've felt very discouraged for some reason this weekend...
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