[critter]

Help help help, how do I rectify this situation without commiting an act of violence!?

All right. She's the soon-to-be ex-wife of my fiance's best friend of 32 years(she left him). The ex, and to some degree my fiance, poo ppoo her behavior saying that she's really a sweet person, that she's not intentionally trying to cause trouble, that she really doesn't KNOW what she's doing. My fiance just says she's not right in the head.

Her behavior is not limited to my fiance.

She:
Appears at my door, and the door of other mutual friends (who are also in realtionships) wearing, well rather, not wearing much. Short short skirts sometimes with underwear, sometimes without...in either case she will sit herself directly across from the male in the room as if she were wearing jeans, I can tell you she has a penchant for strings and granny underwear. (although the sans underwear trip she usually reserves for those moments when she finds herself alone with the male of the moment. My friend Oliver tells me that she sat spread eagled in front of him not wearing any underwear in a skirt that looks more like a shred of toilet paper.)

Tells my fiance that she needs to find a man "like him" blah blah blah "like him"

Engages in wholly inappropriate flirting, not the harmless type at all. And generally has to be the center of all male lust, no matter what cost to her dignity and self-respect and surely without a single thought as to her lack of respect for our realtionship and the relationships of others.

In front of her husband (still married then), my fiance and myself, she felt it necessary to lift up her shirt and display (not just flash - although just a flash wouldn't make it any better) her breasts. Which is also a favorite beahvior for her...to wear shirts that...did I say shirts? I meant to say meager torso attire...and then find every opportunity to bend over showing both T and A, rubbing on my fiance and the boyfriends of our mutual acquaintance etc etc etc.

And please, let's not forget the verbal exercise she engages in...but why type it all, I'm sure you all get the picture.

My boyfriend knows how much this upsets me, but he consistently replies that it's no big deal, she's whacko...don't be so jealous (here's a tip guys: It is more than possible it is LIKELY that your girlfriends are capable of much more sophisticated emotions that sheer jealousy - perhaps even feeling affronted in the face of abject disrespect...so try not to wash everything away with the chauvinist, ignorant, insensitive and UNLOVING knee-jerk response of "you're just jealous" or any of it's mutations) and she in turn has mentioned, unsolicited I might add - so it's clear that this little skirt of horrors knows she's been behaving badly, that "what's a little flesh between friends. I'm friends with her ex, so I've discussed it with him, and the response is generally the same.

My boyfriend changed his tune a bit when I finally lost my sense of diplomacy and said, "Why am I the one who has to eat all the s--t and stuff my anger, when she's the one slapping me, you AND HERSLEF in the face all the time? Why should I be expected to eat this and LIKE IT!? Of COURSE YOU DON'T THINK IT'S A BIG DEAL...YOU'RE ON THE FLATTERED RECEIVING END!! HOW ABSOLUTELY SELF-CENTERED AND CRUEL TO ME IS THAT RESPONSE!?" (To which he said, "I never thought of it that way...you're right...but don't make trouble anyway.." (It's early in his training so I've decided to withold his morning walks until he gets it )

I really want to talk to her about this but everyone is telling me to leave it alone (well all the males in the circle that is)

Okay, that was a lie, I would like to tear her head off, if for no other reason than to see if there really is far less than the average grey matter in there.

I'd also like it if my boyfriend could grow the b-lls to tell her himself. (well, I gotta have a dream, right?) I can understand the ex not wanting to believe that she's manipulative, inappropriate etc...who wants to admit you've been married to a social psychopath?


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me what you think I should do. I'm mired in the mutual relations between all of us, but I just don't think I can tolerate this one more day and I'd really like to live without this anger and disgust.

Trying to be Zen and failing miserably...
critter

[quankanne]

damn, lady, it sounds like she's making your life sheer hell, especially when the males around you refuse to stop encouraging her bad behavior by letting her keep acting that way!

Plain and simple: it sounds like she has a huge insecurity complex and needs to display her "wares" in front of men to get the fulfillment she needs, to hell with anyone who is shocked by her manner.

Put your foot down, regardless of what the men say. You can be nice about it, you can be blunt or you can be completely crass, the choice is yours. A warning, though, the men who are enjoying the free goodies they get everytime she flashes someone, will raise a fuss by telling you that you're just jealous.

Me? I'd take her aside and remind her that she's a lovely girl who doesn't need to act so badly/so trashy/so raunchy just to get attention, and you feel that it only detracts from the stuff people DO like about her. I'd do that a couple of times and if she continues, then call her on it when she's doing it (sort of like blasting the cat with a squirt-gun when she's clawing the furniture). If it comes to making her feel like a complete sh*t for being so tawdry, well, so be it.

… "That's nice, honey, but we've seen it so many times before that it's getting rather boring."

… "WHAT? We're stuck seeing THAT again? Don't you have anything new to add to show?"

…"Girl, put some panties on/close your legs, you're attracting flies!!!"

… "Maybe we ought to start charging admission/renting you out for parties."

Maybe the two-handed comments will cut through the fog that envelops her brain and she'll calm down some.

good luck in reconditioning her ...

[gaia]

quankanne has just said everything I was going to say, except that I would never have thought up such good put-down lines!

I agree that her self-esteem must be zero if she behaves like this - does she really think this is all she has to offer - how sad.

Do you have to have her in your house. I'd get the underwear police to check her out first.

[spencer]

just come right out and tell her that she is embarrassing and humilating herself, and you are ashamed to be associated with her displaying this behavior. therefore she is no longer welcome. tell her that you have held your tongue up until now but if she continues this juvenile behavior that you will be forced to treat her as such.


ie.. "you aren't wearing underwear today, are you broke, do you need some money, here sweetie Im so sorry you cant afford any clothes, lets go shopping and Ill help you buy a few things".

ie..(when she flashes) go "oooh thats a horrible disfigurement, have you gone for a surgical consultation yet? you really should be showing that to a doctor".

ie... (no panties).. "yeast infection again, you poooor thing, that never seems to go away for you considering your always airing out your crotch".

my middle name is 'sarcastic bitch'

[Fedup&givingup]

Ask your fiance would he think it just OK if YOU went around doing that? That will get his attention. That's how I would handle him.

As for her, I would pull her to the side and tell her to do what she's doing in a strip club....she'll get her kicks and male affirmations met, plus make a lot of money!

[Pookette]

[soserious1]

The only behavior you can control is your own..you can't control her or the men in your social circle,including your man.

It all boils down to this,do you trust him?

Personally I'd make a joke out of it,her behavior is sad and bespeaks desparation and depression.

Joke about the "free show" he's getting,make it funny and teasing, you'll then come across as uber confident and sexy,not as the jealous,catty
wench you're coming across as now.Bottom line,you've voiced your objections all over town,he's not bothered by the sight of a little T&A and neither are the other guys,keep up acting this way and the one that people will want to avoid is you.It's sad but that's how it works.

[gaia]

Just another thing. I don't think "flirty" is the right description for this girl's behaviour. I sometimes flirt, but I have never done a Sharon Stone. This is "slutty" and that's being polite about it!

[jenny]

you could pathologize her as well - next time she does it, simply say: are you ok? why would you need to do such a thing? make sure to furrow your brow in concern, and do it publicly. if i read her type correctly, you anger will only feed her, but your concern might shame her. further, don't invite her to things anymore. she has made her passive antagonism known, believe her, and she won't long remain in the group long if no female is willing to arrange for her presence.

but i sense your anger here is really at your boyfriend. i had one boyfriend who was so great at handling people like that: he was openly contempous of overly flirty girls, i loved him for it. very mr. darcy. but he was rare in this regard - is there any way you can let your guy know that "not suffering fools gladly" is an ideal masculine trait? and, further, not being able to discern overt flirtation is not a sign of innocence, but rather of idiocy?

the girl is going to do whatever she is going to do. feel sorry for her; be a smarter kinder woman. put your disgruntlement where it primarily belongs:the guy. be calm, and be logical- - explain how her actions and his responses make you feel threatened and insecure. do NOT be catty about her to him for one moment longer. just be honest and detailed about specific behaviours that hurt you.

if he cannot change this behaviour, think about whether or not this is a deal-breaker for you. it might be for me. i don't want to date a guy who feigns ignorance about basic human motives and actions. you can't change him either, but you can dump him for a brighter bulb.

you can have power back in this situation, but can only get it from yourself and your decisiveness.

[Fedup&givingup]

Originally posted by gaia
Just another thing. I don't think "flirty" is the right description for this girl's behaviour. I sometimes flirt, but I have never done a Sharon Stone. This is "slutty" and that's being polite about it!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO true.

[Fedup&givingup]

Again Jenny, very well put. My theory in ALL cases that when a problem involves an outside person (including cheating), you need to deal ONLY with the person you are involved with.

The behaviour of this woman is more common than you think. Look up the behaviour profile of histronic or (narcistic) personality disorder. Also, check out bully online. These people are disabled. They compulsively need to be the centre of attention. Men are so easy to get attention from if you use your sexual appeal to get the attention. If a man was flashing women we would call him a pervert. How long would your man put up with you enjoying the flash and flirt of another man - not long but some men expect that we should put up with it.

[Fedup&givingup]

Lala,

My thoughts exactly. This is the whole topic of double standards, and I read you loud and clear.

[critter]

Hey all!!

I read your replies yesterday...attempted to reply...used the spell checker...which then deleted everything I wrote from my reply...grr...and so I lost a half an hour's typing...

I will reply in detail later as I am working now but I just wanted to say that you have all helped me to relax more about this issue and your support has TRULY HELPED!!!!

SMOOCHES TO YOU ALL!! MMMMMWWWWAAAA!

critter

[Arabess]

I feel your pain Critter.....the Spell Checker Demon has done that to me more than one time. Try copying your post....THEN spell checking it. If it gets erased, paste what you copied into a new window. I learned this the hard way!

NOW....back to Miss TWAT!!!! I'm going to assume her ex did not make her feel sexy and she is overcompensating now. I've seen that happen in divorced women....and actually went thru some of that when I was first single. Let me state for the record....I DIDN'T expose myself....but I gave a pretty 'easy' appearance. I finally came to the conslusion I wasn't going to find a nice guy with my cleavage sprawled across the table. HAHA!

Maybe if you can find some pity for her, it would help you deal with it. I would definately confront her when no one else is around. I would mention what I said as a possibility and ask if she needs someone to talk to about her obvious insecurities. You can also let her know that it takes no special skill to turn a man on. They are horney by nature. All she is doing is cheapening herself and stiffling the possibilities of someone who may see more in her than a piece of a$$.

See how she responds. It may surprise you.

If she continued the behavior, I would totally ignore and avoid her. I would also advise my guy that chekcing out her exposed Beaver Town was not an option for him.