I've seen post after post on here asking questions on 'What does he mean by this, or why does he / don't he do this, and about how long you should wait, etc..'
Let me be very brief here. If the guy is married he is NOT going to leave his wife and children for you. He has the best of both worlds now. You as the OW are just a sex toy. A dog when called upon, and you come. Most of these men are power hungry and when it comes down to making a choice he will choose his wife. Why would he go through the cost of a very expensive divorce and losing his kids, house and repetitation for some chick he's been banging?
When things get too close for comfort, he'll end it with you and find some other chick to take your place.
Now most of you women have a good head on your shoulders, and granted your heart does cloud some judgement. But you have to ask yourself WHY you are involved with a married man. Are you too afraid for commitment? Having this is beneficial to you, you get the love & care (even though its superficial) from a man, yet there is no true commitment. Do you like the drama? Is your life that boring or missing something that you have to fill the void with this? Do you like a challenge? This is a guy you can't truly have but you are used to getting what you want, so you will try ANYTHING to get him. Or is it jealously? You see another woman very happy and just can't deal with your own depression, so this is your way of coping.
Now even if the slim chance happens and this guy leaves his WHOLE family for you, can you really trust him? What makes you think YOU are SO special that you are going to change him into a respectable, loving, caring man? Guess what, you can't. Just like women falling for these 'bad boys', and think they are the one that are going to change them. There have been countless women before you who thought the same and failed.
What you are really doing is wasting your time. Find a single guy who can truly appreciate you for who you are. Not become some married guy's toy. Yes each situation is different, but they end usually all the same.
I'll probably get blasted and labeled, but I've had a few affairs and I'll tell you why. First of all, I didn't seek out married men, but at the time I would usually end up very intensely attracted to older men and most of them happened to be married. The intense attraction I realize now is from issues of abandonment, abuse, neglect, daddy, and of course, low self-esteem and fear of not being loved in a long-term relationship. I got involved with these men for the physical aspect - or so I thought. Of course I became somewhat emotionally involved but I never wanted them or expected them to leave their wives. I knew it was wrong and I didn't want to hurt anyone (i.e., wife) but it was such a strong drive - the attractions were so strong - the kind you lose sleep over and you literally tremble when you're near them. So I got involved. The one guy I was involved with long-term I actually have to thank for having gotten me into counseling and figuring out some of the above issues - so at least something good came out of it.
I'm glad you figured out why you did the things you did. That's where I think alot of the women who post in this board are trying or at least should try to find out why they are doing this.
Jmargel you are exactly right in every single word you said. I agree with you 100%.
FreeMe, what you said really touched me. I've had to deal with the exact things you mentioned my entire life. Recognizing the root of your actions is the most important step and is very empowering because you now have a starting point. There's so many healthier ways to get the void filled. Thousands of dollars in therapy taught me that. LOL
__________________
Don't cast your pearls before swine.
I think it's great for OW's to hear this type of advice from a man.
Sometimes, people get invovled in these types of relationships before even knowing what a guy's REAL marriage status is. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. I wish I would've walked out the first day...instead of letting it ride until it almost became my greatest life disaster.
The deal is.....sooner or later....you'll have to face the pain of separating from the relationship. It's better to just get it over with. You can always tell a guy that once his divorce papers are stapled to his forehead....you'll reconsider. Till then....you will look for a love which will honor you....not make you feel like a used condom. LOL!
If a guy wants to screw around....that's his choice. BUT....he should NEVER lie about the status of the relationship or where it is heading. It's just cruel.
[font=courier new][color=brown]Something to Think About....
Have you ever noticed that the worst way to miss someone is when they are right beside you and yet you can never have them.....when the moment you can't feel them under your fingertips, you miss them?*
Have you ever wondered which hurts the most; saying something and wishing you had not, or saying nothing and wishing you had?*
I guess the most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish them, words shrink things that seemed timeless when they were in your head...to no more than living size when they are brought out....*
Don't be afraid to tell someone you love them. If you do, they might break your heart...but if you don't, you might break theirs.*
Your heart decides who it likes and who it doesn't. You can't tell your heart what to do. It does it on its own.... when you least suspect it, or even when you don't want it to.*Have you ever wanted to love someone with everything you had, but that other person was too afraid to let you?*
Too many of us stay walled because we are too afraid to care too much...for fear that the other person does not care as much, or at all.*
Have you ever loved someone and they had absolutely no idea whatsoever? Or fell for your best-friend in the entire world, and then sat around and watched him/her fall for someone else?*
Have you ever denied your feelings for someone because your fear of rejection was too hard to handle?*
We tell lies when we are afraid.. afraid of what we don't know, afraid of what others will think, afraid of what will be found out about us. But every time we tell a lie.... the thing we fear grows stronger.*
Life is all about risks and it requires you to jump. Don't be a person who has to look back and wonder what they would have, or could have had.
This month marked 3 years of affair- the happiest period of my life - memories of which I will always cherish.
It also is the end of it.
I am thankful for the opportunity of my association of MM as it significantly helped me to put closure on a painful past - something I was not able to achieve inspite of many years of counselling/therapy and gave me enthusiastic hope for the future where I now see life as a grand adventure, something to be savoured.
This has led me to achieve so many personal triumphs that sometimes I am still truly amazed.
As I said before MM was the first person to take the time out to get to know and understand me and was unstinting in encouraging me to aim for the sky at all times.
He is the best friend I have ever had and I know that our involvement was not because of any concerns he had at home. Whenever we spoke about his wife, it was about his wanting to make his marriage a success and the need to lessen contact with me while keeping his promise of being there for me as a friend.
So we have decided to once again try NC. I know that I am going to miss the camaraderie etc I shared with him but at the same time have to acknowledge and accept that it is the only way to change the nature of the relationship between us and avoid the risk of us both being the cause of distress to anyone.
He is the best friend I have ever had and I know that our involvement was not because of any concerns he had at home. Whenever we spoke about his wife, it was about his wanting to make his marriage a success and the need to lessen contact with me while keeping his promise of being there for me as a friend.
Hi thankful,
I am glad for you that this relationship resulted in a positive life-changing experience......... Many don't.
I am sorry that his wife had to loan him out to you, in a sense, and she had to have known he wasn't wholly present in their relationship, but now that he is ending it with you, ..he can be...(Doesn't mean he will be though..their own story may or may not end well)
But you have had the best of each other for awhile and you can carry that with you for the rest of your life.
I am not a big fan of affairs...They offer crazy, inconsistent, guilt-inducing, addicting, off -the-wall experiences and rarely end in second marriages..( I personally know of one that did though!)
Alot of OWs end of feeling used, the mm still confused, and the wife, abused....so it doesn't offer a good return as a relationship choice, but in your case you landed on your feet...
I know you will be able to offer support to others who are going through and trying to end this type of involvement.
And it is true...the heart loves who it loves...
If a mm becomes the caring friend and mentor, or the father figure, to the ow, the truly loving thing would be to offer her support short of sex....and if that is not possible, then offer nothing.
And if a vulnerable, loving woman runs across a tortured mm, who is unhappily married, then the most loving thing for her would be to offer an ear, and just an ear ladies!...... ...
Best thing would be to stay away altogether, but we humans have a tough time doing this it seems.
So bravo thankful...good luck with the weaning process.
I have the feeling that the next guy will be yours and yours only.
Last edited by Skittles; 21st March 2004 at 11:40 AM..
Thanks Skittles for understanding - it is such a difference from the usual bashing for being an affair.
One of the cornerstone's of our relationship is communication.
I realised that to a large extent in the past whenever I was feeling hurt or upset about something I tended to internalise rather than expressing it since I had thought it was important in order to maintain the peace with the people I interact with - family, friends, co-workers etc. - I suppose it is coming from a childhood which was filled with abuse and a continuation of same into adulthood.
One of the things I learnt from MM was that disagreements were healthy as long as it was done in an atmosphere of mutual respect and caring for the other person's feelings while not suppressing one's own. It is okay to get angry.
I could not believe the difference it made when I started being more assertive and vocalising how I felt. Wish I knew even ten years ago what I know now.
More and more I am convinced that there is someone special and single who is out there for me, all I have to do is be patient and wait. Sometimes though I wonder if having been out of a committed relationship so long (about 7 years - it had lasted 12 years) if I really want to be part of a couple again. I occasionally remind myself that I am a more self-assured person who while hope to have a partner, is for the most part quite contented on my own.
And in the meantime will continue on the path of personal development.
Thinking too that as long as MM was an integral part of my life, it will be extremely difficult for me to anyone else objectively.
Maybe because recently I have been giving serious thought to what it might be like to have a 'real' relationship, I feel very concerned about the BS and hoping that I never find myself in that position.
I wanted to relate my story. Much like other women who never dream of being involved with a married man, I was one of them. I couldn't understand how any woman would make that kind of mistake, until now. To put it mildly, it's been the one of the hardest things to deal with. The guilt alone was enough to make me not want to get out of bed. When I think of his wife, I feel like absolute crap. She didn't ask for this. She married him for better or for worse, and as far as I know has kept her vow. Needless to say, it didn't work out. He told me last May that he was leaving, that it was an amicable separation, and he asked me out. I refused, at first. But we continued to talk and be friends, and then it developed into more. It just ended about a month ago. I am finding my footing again, and analyzing why I was involved with him. I think it's important to figure out the "whys" so that I can understand how I could fall so hard for someone who wasn't meant to be mine.
I can tell you that I was involved in a very bad relationship for many years, and suffered from very low self-esteem before I met him, but I'm not sure if that sounds like an excuse. In most other aspects of my life, I excel-- work, friends, family, etc. When it comes to men, I pick all the wrong ones. I truly adored this man, and it is very difficult to get over him. But at the same time, I recognize that the intense Highs and the intense Lows were not healthy. There was no middle ground for us, either we got along famously and mapped out our entire future (family, kids, evenings out together, sex), or we argued heatedly. It was passionate to both extremes, although we rarely saw each other and engaged twice in intercourse. Our involvement was primarily over the phone or through text messaging. It's difficult because I opened myself up to him in so many ways that I have not with anyone else. I think that he engaged my mind, body, and soul more than any other man that I know. I believe that he did care about me, whether I ruined it or not (as he believes) is moot.
So now, I am attempting to find other activities to get involved in. I torture myself with him happy with his wife and their son (her's from a previous marriage-- not that that makes a difference). That might not be the wisest or best way to handle it, but during the moments when I miss him the most, I remind myself that he is committed to someone else. I remind myself of the constant fighting, all the things that bothered me (i.e. his emotional manipulation tactics, his constant pestering of digging into every aspect of my life, his inability to let go of a subject, his constant accusations of how horribly I treated him), and I surround myself with my very good friends. I have found out who my true friends are in all of this. They are the ones who have stood by me, have never condemned me, have constantly been there for me, have worried about me (especially through my darkest moments when I lost considerable weight and was drinking every night), and have supported me through it all. I have learned some truly important things through all of this. I'm hoping that I can walk away stronger and smarter. Hopefully, someday, I will find someone who is free for me to love and who will love me in return, but I am not searching for it. I'm taking it one day at a time and putting my life back together. I'm not ready to be involved with anyone at this point, and I don't know when I will be. I hope that I can forgive myself in time.
Thank you for reading my rant. I don't ask for sympathy, pity, or condemnation. I just wanted to share. To all women out there who may be facing similar circumstances, I have no words of advice. To all other men and women who will condemn me for what I did, I have nothing to say. I don't think anyone can condemn me more than I do myself.
I remind myself that he is committed to someone else
Hi Smarter...
Good for you, you are a healthy sprout on your way to better things
Imo, your ex mm was not committed to anyone..not even himself or his own true best interest...whatever that meant in terms of his marital status.
I am not clear as to whether he broke up with you or vice versa...but from your post, you sound centered and that is a very good thing.
I sometimes believe when two unavailables meet and get entangled in an intense relationship they are, somewhere in their lives, vibrating or resonating at the same psychological, emotional frequency...
They are at the same place on their life/love map and the coincidence...they "coincide", just makes for some powerful stuff...Take that and add it to his dissatisfaction and her neediness and KAPOW!!...
I believe that jmargel's original post was thought insoiring for men and women who are or who have contemplated an affair....but.....let's not throw everyone in the same box. There are legitimate affairs that become bonding relationships, and each one is tailored to the needs and desires of those involved. Basically, men seem to want to populate and women want to nest....but there are exceptions. If a marriage is over and people stay together "for the kids", or abused but afraid of being alone, then an affair could be the beginning of a new rewarding life. I remember as I was standing at the alter waiting for my bride ...the minister leaned over and said. "Ya know, there are 10,000 women out there who could make you as happy as this woman can".....not sure why he said that, but I never forgot it either. Don't think that if you had a rocky marriage in Boston and moved to L.A , that you'ed never find love.
Originally posted by Dug
There are legitimate affairs that become bonding relationships, and each one is tailored to the needs and desires of those involved.
Legitimate affairs? That's like saying legitimate spousal abuse or legitimate pedophilia. Sorry but affairs are wrong. If you can't bond with your SO then you should never had gotten married. Yeah I can hear now the old saying, "Well we grew apart.", "Things changed." or "Were're only human." What a copout.
Ever notice people always look for somekind of justification for something they know they shouldn't have done?
IMO, I think the institution of marriage is not taken very seriously, in today's day and age. It takes a lot of work and I think people are just too lazy to make the effort, hence the high rate of divorces.
Originally posted by Dug
I believe that jmargel's original post was thought inspiring for men and women who are or who have contemplated an affair....but.....let's not throw everyone in the same box.
Thank you Dug for injecting a fresh point of view. I agree affairs are wrong and having been in one has made me more cautious and aware.
Notwithstanding the fact that mine has ended with a certain amount of sadness as we said goodbye for most likely the last time and although we have stopped communicating verbally, the bond between us remains just as strong.
It has not been easy but we are trying.
The last time he called, I did not answer the phone even though I knew that he knew I was at home.
This morning I was tempted to call but resisted the urge reminding myself of the agreement we made to end things.
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