[Paul]

Hi,

There has been an interest recently in creating places for interaction between regular participants on these forums. While we welcome an interest in further developing a community, in the interest of the privacy and security of our visitors, we cannot permit discussion of those matters on this site, nor will we endorse the use of any such service under the operation of external entities.

We pride ourselves for ensuring that the privacy of each visitor that happens upon our site is protected as best we can. It would be impossible for us to ensure the same degree of protection on services hosted by other parties whose commercial interests or technology implementation may display, either inadvertently or intentionally, private information that visitors on our site would not want disclosed. As such, posts that discuss third-party solutions will be immediately removed.

Given the sensitive nature of the discussions that occur on this forum, we are well aware that most participants are concerned about revealing information that could identify them in ways they are not comfortable with. However, those of you who have been regular participants on the site have had an opportunity to establish relationships with each other and have expressed an interest in interacting on a level not possible or convenient with the constraints imposed on the forum. We would therefore like to open discussions on how we could best provide a place here on LoveShack.org that would not only offer the same degree of protection to all of our users, but provide a platform upon which these interactions could safely occur.

Please refrain from posting links to commercial services or we will be forced to edit those messages. LoveShack.org does not endorse nor recommend that users participate on services or web sites operated by third-parties.

Best wishes,
Paul

[moimeme]

It's nice to know that LS is keeping watch over our privacy. I was once a member of a Yahoo group that would not archive any posts for the same reason.

It might not be the worst thing in the world were a Yahoo group to be started for chat purposes only. Yahoo group moderators have the option of allowing or disallowing the display of a great deal of information and the Yahoo group function also allows members to choose to display (or not) their profiles, email addys, etc. People can have up to five aliases, besides.

The benefit of an affiliated group located elswhere would be that people could even choose to use different usernames if they were truly concerned about their security - or they could just choose to not join at all.

Besides all of the above, LS bandwidth or storage space or server load or whatever it is that is on shaky grounds now wouldn't be chewed up!

I'm not familiar with how the other forums/services operate, but I'm a member of a whole whack of Yahoo groups and am mod of two and, in the years I've been using Yahoo, found that I haven't been spammed or had any other sorts of problems from it. I endorse caution in all matters of cyber-life, but perhaps a particularly reputable third party might be not completely out of the question?

Just some thoughts to toss into the pot!

Merry

Gee, and to think all I wanted was for some LSers who will be all alone over Christmas to go have a spot to chat. Sigh.

[dyermaker]

I'm not sure if by "open discussions on", you meant post here, but I'm sure it's within your realm to delete my reply if it's misplaced. Anyway, I think there are plenty of instant chat programs in PHP that would integrate with your forums. It wouldn't take much to fetch your login name cookie, and have that as your chat name automatically.

You could modify an existing chat script to change say, $inputted_username, the protocol of most chat programs being to let the user pick a username, to your loveshack username with the following (Not tested, I just drafted it now for example) :

[php]
<?php
//Code to be replaced where $inputted_username is authenticated in the database

//This would be where the script connects to the loveshack mysql database
include "mysql.inc.php";

//vBulletin Defaults
$username_cookie = "bbuserid";
$password_cookie = "bbpassword";

//I don't have vBulletin installed right now, I don't know the name of this table,
// (...) but it's the DB table in which user info is stored
$users_table = "vb_users"; // A guess
$userid_field = "userid"; // Again, a guess
$uname_field = "username"; // Again, a guess
$pass_field = "password"; // Yes, I'm guessing


//Gets the info from the browser's cookie

$uname = $HTTP_COOKIE_VARS[$username_cookie];
$pword = $HTTP_COOKIE_VARS[$password_cookie];

//Verifies that the user is actually who his browser says he is
$auth_array = mysql_fetch_array("SELECT * FROM $users_table WHERE $userid_field = $username_cookie");
$real_password = $auth_array[$user_field];
$real_username = $auth_array[$uname_field];

if ($real_password = $password_cookie) {
$inputted_username = $real_username;
}else{
//You'd make this more flashy lol
echo "Sorry, there seems to be a problem with your cookies!";
echo " <br /> <br /> ";
echo "Please clear your cookies, and log in and try to enter chat again.";
exit();
}

?>
[/php]

That's just what I'd do, but maybe it can be done easier. The object is to creat a chat program that's local, right? So no third party is involved? A PHP chat would be how I go, as the only person who would handle IP addresses would be whoever you let see them, and it would require no extra data collection, since it's fetched from the loveshack database that already exists. PM me if you have any questions I guess.

[Paul]

Hi moimeme,

Originally posted by moimeme
The benefit of an affiliated group located elswhere would be that people could even choose to use different usernames if they were truly concerned about their security - or they could just choose to not join at all.

We do not have any limits on the number of usernames a person can use on this site. Members always have the option of posting as a guest. We have made some trial modifications to the forum that would allow a member to post with a different username "on the fly" however we have not activated that code yet until we are sure it will work with the next generation of forum software due out shortly.

Besides all of the above, LS bandwidth or storage space or server load or whatever it is that is on shaky grounds now wouldn't be chewed up!

As we've received generous donations from those interested in supporting the site, we have already begun the process of preparing hardware that will give us the capability to extend the services that we are presently capable of hosting. If all goes well, we hope to have the site moved to new hardware sometime this month.

I endorse caution in all matters of cyber-life, but perhaps a particularly reputable third party might be not completely out of the question?

I won't comment on the third-party specific things you've mentioned other than to say that we cannot speak for the reputability of any service that we don't operate, nor are we able to ensure that the policies they have enacted today will remain in effect in a month or year from now. That is the larger issue. Let's focus on something we can create here.

Best wishes,
Paul

[moimeme]

As we've received generous donations from those interested in supporting the site, we have already begun the process of preparing hardware that will give us the capability to extend the services that we are presently capable of hosting. If all goes well, we hope to have the site moved to new hardware sometime this month.

Wow! Congratulations! What great news

[Paul]

Yes, this thread would be an excellent place to have a discussion. Oh look at all that sexy code. The forum supports [php] tags.

Originally posted by dyermaker
I'm not sure if by "open discussions on", you meant post here, but I'm sure it's within your realm to delete my reply if it's misplaced. Anyway, I think there are plenty of instant chat programs in PHP that would integrate with your forums. It wouldn't take much to fetch your login name cookie, and have that as your chat name automatically.

Technologically, as you've pointed out, it wouldn't be difficult to bridge the existing forum with other scripts or applications. What we'd be most interested in hearing about, however, is what sort of interactions you'd like to see and what sort of guidelines do you feel would need to be applied? For instance, would you prefer that only certain members have access to this new feature? What aspects of the forum do you currently find limiting? Etc.

[Duke]

I'm sorry but I disagree. When members are not allowed to spam in the forums or goof off they need to do it somewhere. This is a great community and it is full of great people, many are new aquaintances that become friends. I have made numerous friends in communities and maintain those relationships to this day on AIM, MSN, or ICQ plus the forums of which I am a member.

I don't believe anyones privacy is even a consideration. Simply put, if you want to join, you will. If you don't you won't. No harm, no foul.

This is really the only way that we can get to know each other and I'm all for it.

[Paul]

Originally posted by moimeme
Wow! Congratulations! What great news

Well, that doesn't mean we've raised enough to ensure perpetual sustainability, but I've set aside my thermometer project until we get this thing moved.

[cindy0039]

That's kind of the whole point in having an "outside" chat, isn't it? We'd like to be able to talk privately and freely without being edited or deleted or monitored, or feeling that we're being watched.

We'd like to be able to casually chat back and forth without being told that we're off-topic or that we shouldn't be addressing each other personally.

Okay, I've answered your question. Can you answer mine? Why do you seem to feel so threatened by this idea?

If you feel the need to protect members of this forum from each other, then we can take it elsewhere where you're not responsible for what we say to each other. It's your choice really.

[Paul]

Originally posted by Duke
I'm sorry but I disagree.

With what?

When members are not allowed to spam in the forums or goof off they need to do it somewhere. This is a great community and it is full of great people, many are new aquaintances that become friends. I have made numerous friends in communities and maintain those relationships to this day on AIM, MSN, or ICQ plus the forums of which I am a member.

The interests expressed for creating additional venues for interaction all centered around places where the group could discuss, not private mediums such as instant messaging programs. Members have always been free to make arrangements via private message feature of the forum.

I don't believe anyones privacy is even a consideration. Simply put, if you want to join, you will. If you don't you won't. No harm, no foul.

As I've stated quite clearly, privacy is our primary concern.

This is really the only way that we can get to know each other and I'm all for it.

Now I disagree with you. It is possible to introduce new mediums to this site to provide all the functionality of all of the services mentioned thus far.

[lostforwords]

WHat I dont understand is... a few weeks ago when we requested a "Goof off thread" to be started.... we were told no.. and so we have initiated a thread basicly getting fellow shackers to join so we can goof off or what have you.... and that gets shot down.... and now your saying this:

We would therefore like to open discussions on how we could best provide a place here on LoveShack.org that would not only offer the same degree of protection to all of our users, but provide a platform upon which these interactions could safely occur.

what is the difference between last week and ths week aside from the time frame?... the point being is yes for some people privacy MAY be an issue particularily when it pertains to sensitive issues or questions people may have.... however..... the discussion your wanting for new ideas regarding all of your concerns paul arent an issue if we could have just started a goof off thread to begin with..... now regarding privacy paul.... is int it sort of defeating the purpose when mods can see our PM's anyways?

[moimeme]

what sort of interactions you'd like to see and what sort of guidelines do you feel would need to be applied?

The ones I would've applied to a group That people still treat each other with courtesy and civility, that flame attacks would not be tolerated. Other than that, there would be nothing OT because the point would be to free- associate foolishly - the way we tend to do late of an evening when not much is going on. Basically, the spot where that which is forbidden elsewhere could go on. I'd still agree that email addys not be posted. I might slack up on the commercial sites unless posting them somehow left LS open to spamming.

For instance, would you prefer that only certain members have access to this new feature?
I'd say only current registered members.

What aspects of the forum do you currently find limiting? Etc.

We can't be as silly as we are wont to wish to be.

[dyermaker]

Ooh, you did make my code pretty,

Technologically, as you've pointed out, it wouldn't be difficult to bridge the existing forum with other scripts or applications. What we'd be most interested in hearing about, however, is what sort of interactions you'd like to see and what sort of guidelines do you feel would need to be applied? For instance, would you prefer that only certain members have access to this new feature? What aspects of the forum do you currently find limiting? Etc.

I don't feel the need for a chat room. I think that forums encourage people to talk intelligently and respectfully, because of their permanance. I also think that this is an extremely active message board, so instant gratification so to speak isn't neccessary. But, I'll let y'all sort it out, and if there happens to be a chat room, I'm sure I'll enter.

I'm also willing to volunteer my time to "bridge the existing forum with other scripts or applications".

[Duke]

Originally posted by Paul
With what?

Y third party sites and services are a bad idea, my bad, i thought that was obvious.

As I've stated quite clearly, privacy is our primary concern.

I still for the life of me can't figure out how you feel peoples privacy is at stake. Its a choice to join a group that only the individual can make, how does that affect anyones privacy? I'm sorry but I may be way too dumb to make the connection here.

Now I disagree with you. It is possible to introduce new mediums to this site to provide all the functionality of all of the services mentioned thus far.

I couldn't agree more, however, its not currently being provided which makes us seek alterior methods, third party sotware is really the best option. If you know of another, besides PM's, please let me know. PM's are great for one on one but are horrible at group anything.

[Paul]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cindy0039
That's kind of the whole point in having an "outside" chat, isn't it? We'd like to be able to talk privately and freely without being edited or deleted or monitored, or feeling that we're being watched.[quote]

So, if I'm reading your point correctly, you'd be interested in an area of the site that would be completely unmoderated. Who would be allowed "in?"

We'd like to be able to casually chat back and forth without being told that we're off-topic or that we shouldn't be addressing each other personally.

We hope to have clear guidelines for the forum completed before the New Year, however I understand your frustration. Those posters who have spent a great deal of time here, such as yourself, want a place to let loose and deviate from the discussions of interpersonal relationships, or simply want to be able to talk amongst each other in a "non-forum" setting. We want to provide that. Now, how do you envision this setting?

Okay, I've answered your question. Can you answer mine? Why do you seem to feel so threatened by this idea?

If you feel the need to protect members of this forum from each other, then we can take it elsewhere where you're not responsible for what we say to each other. It's your choice really.

The issue is that members have posted third-party sites on the forum. That is not acceptable for the reasons outlined in my first post on this thread. If a few of you want to chat privately via instant message or some other chat venue, that's fine so long as there is no visible affiliation to LoveShack.org and that you arrange it privately. The links posted on the forum advertised a place for all members on the site to visit and join. Again, due to the reasoning in my first post, this is inappropriate. We'll be happy to set something up here.