So, I'm in grad school for my PhD, talking to my girlfriends today, when the topic of marriage/kids comes up. I tell the girls that what I'd really love to have is a wife. Of course, I'm not gay and anywho, it's illegal, but my meaning was that it's so damn hard to have a successful career (at least at our level of science) and raise a family/take care of a house/manage day-to-day stuff, etc. In the past, the men I've dated have all been highly ambitious (businessmen, doctors, filmmakers, etc). But, I've noticed that just lately, I've started dating guys who have nice 9-5 jobs that they leave emotionally behind them when they check out for the day. Sweet, nice guys, who love kids. Men with no bigger ambitions than getting tickets to their favorite band's concert next month or finally defeating the Big, Dark Lord of the Online Computer Gaming Realm. Am I really looking for a househusband? By no means are these guys idiots or lazy, but just simple (okay, well nobody's simple), kind people.
One of the girls thought I was nuts. She said that you had to be intellectually compatible with the men you dated, which for her means they've got to come with advanced degrees or life experience. Do you think I'm crazy? Can intellectually incompatible people still be happy together? I mean, to me, I've never judged people's worth based on their IQ, but on how they apply their gifts, whatever they may be. My grandfather was a brilliant man. My grandmother was not so brilliant. Yet, I never doubted that they loved each other. ????? What do you guys say?
as a woman, i wish i was gay and you were gay, i would gladly do what you just said . lol
but shoot, there are lots of men that would love to do what you want them to, and be great doing it.
i guess your gf's just didnt expect a woman to want a man to not be the breadwinner....
i've had similar conversation with girls - about how i wouldn't mind a house-husband, so i can relate. on the other hand, house-work is sometimes so relaxing. i guess it's best to have a happy middle - both people work, both contribute some free time to running the household - i hope that's possible!
i think people with different intellectual abilities CAN get along and love each other easily, as long as the gap isn't too big (and i think what matters here more in their intellectual potential, not whether or not they do rocket science at work).
the only problem with simple kind guys might be ... will you be able to respect him?
One of the girls thought I was nuts. She said that you had to be intellectually compatible with the men you dated, which for her means they've got to come with advanced degrees or life experience.
Fair enough. As long as you don't limit it to just people with degrees. As surely you know by now, having a degree doesn't necessarily bestow common sense or wisdom and those two qualities can be much more important.
Quote:
Do you think I'm crazy? Can intellectually incompatible people still be happy together? I mean, to me, I've never judged people's worth based on their IQ, but on how they apply their gifts, whatever they may be. My grandfather was a brilliant man. My grandmother was not so brilliant. Yet, I never doubted that they loved each other. ????? What do you guys say?
You really have to decide this for yourself. I have a friend who has married someone with a degree. The fellow isn't really the sort of guy one could have a discussion about Life, the Universe, etc. with but he is funny and extremely kind, thoughtful, considerate, and loving. She wondered for a while if she should marry him because they couldn't really have the sorts of conversations she enjoys but decided in the end that he had so many good qualities that she would after all and they are very happy.
I, on the other hand, thrive on intellectual activity and get a great deal of pleasure from learning and from discussion and conversation. I don't think I could last in a relationship unless my partner was similarly inclined. Then again, I abandoned the idea of getting a PhD and teaching because I didn't want to live with the politics in academe. You, OTOH, plan to work among your peers so may find that you will get sufficient intellectual stimulation from them.
__________________
I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to my fellow creatures, let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
Originally posted by moimeme
You, OTOH, plan to work among your peers so may find that you will get sufficient intellectual stimulation from them.
This is something I've considered, too. I mean, I get tons of intellectual stimulation from my friends and at work. Still, I do fancy arts&culture stuff and of course, good books. It would be nice to have the person I love share these interests.
Quote:
Originally posted by yes
the only problem with simple kind guys might be ... will you be able to respect him?
Hmm...the things I respect are:
honesty
charity
understanding
humor
love
humor and understanding, perhaps require some measure of intelligence/perception...I don't know.
So many things to think about...thanks for all your insights!
I think it depends what kind of humour you're looking for. Understanding is more a function of wisdom but I suppose some intellect is required for both. It is a tough choice.
For what it's worth, I think that IQ is very independent of someone's level of college education. I have three degrees myself and work with people who have no degrees and are very intelligent people. Probe the person to see if they think outside the box, are interested in the world around them, are willing to spend a few minutes wondering what the universe is all about and whether or not we are creatures of spirit and the like. I've known a lot of guys (and ladies) who present a rough exterior who are actually quite introspective. While no magic formula, it would seem that this level of intellectual compatibility might be important for longer term relationships.
Of course, intelligence isn't measured in degrees!
That's just my friend's opinion. Some of the wisest and most intelligent people I've known have never gone to college.
I don't think intellect has anything to do with career ambition. In fact, I'm sure we can all think of really smart people who aren't necessarily career oriented and ambitious folks (think politicians) who aren't very bright.
So there is every reason to believe that you could find a man who is intellectually compatible but who would prefer to use his intellect in ways that would allow him to be the primary nurturer of your family.
I went out with someone who was extremely intellectual and enjoyed talking politics, the meaning of life and anylising people and situations. It's not that I don't enjoy doing this myself but this guy did it all the time, you'd be watching a soap and he'd suddenly launch into a dissertion on why Chad felt an emotional need to justify and assert his masculinity by cheating on Tina with her sister.
I mean really Chad was simply a bastard end of... eventually it got a little wearing and frankly annoying. I'm also very dubious about people bracketting themselves and others within 'compatible' groups, life has a habit of teaching you differently. You get on or you don't regardless of education, social strata etc. BTW what's so great about intelligence, some of the nicest, most decent, interesting and worthwhile people I've ever met were pretty thick actually.
Why does the fact that these guys work a normal 9-5 job mean that they are not your intillectual equal? Why does the fact that a man (or woman for that matter) not let their career dictate their lives mean that they're some sort of domestic? Surely you don't think that someone needs the letters "PhD" after their name to imply intelligence?
Don't confuse leading a simple life with being a "simple" person. (For example I work 40 hours a week, I have balanced hobbies, social life, and indeed, ample couch potato time. Heck, I even play video games. And yet somehow manage to have an IQ of 158. Not a genius by any means, but I wouldn't consider myself (or those like me) substandard intillectually.) Just someone with different priorities than you.
__________________ "Women. Can't live with 'em... hey Cliff, pass the beer nuts, willya?"
(Norm Peterson, Cheers)
__________________
"Mom...The Easter Bunny...HAS EGGS!!" My four year old daughter as she literally falls to the ground laughing hysterically, marking one of the most completely absurd yet strangely fulfilling moments in my life - ever.
Well, CatGirl did introduce the topic by talking about "guys who have nice 9-5 jobs that they leave emotionally behind them when they check out for the day", however she then posited the premise:
Quote:
intellectually compatible with the men you dated, which for her means they've got to come with advanced degrees or life experience
She didn't mention career or occupation, there. I assumed that her friends were making the link between intellect and job but not her, rather that the men she was dating were not as strong, intellectually, as she.
Originally posted by Gaz
Why does the fact that these guys work a normal 9-5 job mean that they are not your intillectual equal? Why does the fact that a man (or woman for that matter) not let their career dictate their lives mean that they're some sort of domestic? Surely you don't think that someone needs the letters "PhD" after their name to imply intelligence?
Don't confuse leading a simple life with being a "simple" person. .
Which is exactly what I stated in my original post:
By no means are these guys idiots or lazy, but just simple (okay, well nobody's simple), kind people.
Perhaps you felt my post implied that if these people did not have PhDs, they were not intelligent. That is what my co-worker said, not me.
Let me rephrase my post and clarify my quandary-
1) Because I see myself pursuing a time-consuming career, I have recently begun to date men, whose work schedules and lifestyles are flexible enough that, if we did marry, he would be in a better position to help me raise children and/or take care of household duties. Is this fair to hope for? Socially acceptable?
2) My friend feels that men who have such jobs and/or do not hold high degrees would be unequal to her intellectually. I am not persuaded that this is true.
3) In a related question, if said men were not on my level intellectually, I ask the general LoveShack audience if they believe such a relationship would have a chance?
4) I reiterate that being intelligent does not necessarily mean you are funny, charitable, honest, or understanding (all qualities which I respect).
I do not go around flaunting my intelligence. Being intelligent does not make me morally superior to anyone. In fact, I am more often awed and humbled by human capacity for kindness and courage than intellectual feats. I realize being smart doesn't make you wise or able to understand yourself better. Maybe my post was just more of a personal reflection shared here, one in which I am asking myself, like I'm sure everyone else does, what I need to be happy in a relationship.
I do not go around flaunting my intelligence. Being intelligent does not make me morally superior to anyone
There's nothing wrong with being intelligent. Beautiful people can flaunt their beauty but somehow it's a bad thing to reveal that one has a good mind - especially if you're female. There is not a single thing wrong with being bright and with needing to be able to relate to people who are at least as bright.
It's such a pity that love of knowledge has become such a pejorative thing in North America. Intellectuals used to be admired for their mental prowess, however it seems that now only physical prowess is permitted to be admired. People find themselves apologizing for being smart or for enjoying exercising their minds. Another form of discrimination and prejudice, if you ask me.
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
It's about quality
Linear Mode
