What makes one think it is okay to deny sex if both like it? I am at a loss. I lament that we are not talking marathon sessions, all day affairs, going for hours on end. I'm talking for some nookie on a fairly regular basis.
Now if you do not like sex and do not orgasm, that is one thing..... Don't read that too often. We know some people have just fallen out of love, are not attracted to or not as interested in sex. Many though are just bored, won't say anything or put it at the bottom of their to do list.....
How many people have heard a wife's "honey-do" list? Is there a similar men's list that does not put "have sex" at the top, with all others paling in comparison.
We know some women too have the issue with their husband and I expect honesty there as well.....
Again I talk maybe only for myself, but I think most males in these situations swear up and down that their spouse likes sex, however they place it so low on their list, that it really does not matter.
Please I do not want to hear Lizzie or the other's telling me and other males that we are just not desirable anymore. Really don't need to hear that one again. In 90% of the cases the spouses just don't want sex with anyone regardless of enjoying it (and yes to me orgasm=enjoyment).
Now to get nasty and please don't vilify me as this is not about control, money or anything....... But I did scratch the surface on my informal poll of my friends where those with GF's were getting it 5-12X's as much.
As a male, you buy a gift, bring home flowers, be romantic, listen/talk, whisk her away on a trip, a nice dinner....... With a GF sex is a given (at least I hope so). Is that the same with a spouse?????
Also would you be yearning/wanting sex with your spouse if she wasn't enjoying it (and again that to me means having an orgasm)?
Yes I am cranky again today.....
Last edited by Toodamnpragmatic; 26th October 2009 at 3:50 PM..
I think that, in the type of relationships you describe, sex simply becomes a power struggle. One partner feels disadvantaged in one area - finances, house work, child-rearing, emotional connection, etc. - and sex becomes a way for them to express that disconnection. The decision to do so may not even be a conscious one and the feeling of disenfranchisement may not be rational or deserved, but the bedroom becomes the medium and lowered sexual participation becomes the message. Ignore it at your own risk...
I think that, in the type of relationships you describe, sex simply becomes a power struggle. One partner feels disadvantaged in one area - finances, house work, child-rearing, emotional connection, etc. - and sex becomes a way for them to express that disconnection. The decision to do so may not even be a conscious one and the feeling of disenfranchisement may not be rational or deserved, but the bedroom becomes the medium and lowered sexual participation becomes the message. Ignore it at your own risk...
Mr. Lucky
SHE is struggling for power by withholding, while he just wants his wife to want him again.
__________________
"I always assumed you were taller, and built like a quarterback" -Star Gazer
I think TDP is accurately describing himself as the textbook husband. I think he really is that. Which is largely why he is angry and frustrated.
I don't think she is doing this to gain power in the marriage - I think he really listens and makes her priorities his priorities.
TDP,
I am sorry for you. As for what our wives think sexually - I think it is hard to know. Mine told me something in an offhand way about a month back standing in the master bath getting cleaned up one night. It was not about me - or about us - but it was about sex. And I never would have guessed that she had that type of thought in a million years. Heck I just don't even know what caused her to say it. I wasn't upset about it - but I sure was stunned.
I have also mentioned a very tense period in my marriage regarding sex. My wife never once told me during that time she was not attracted to me. She mentioned specific items she was unhappy about. But never made the ultimate statement - not attracted to you. But in hindsight she wasn't which was why we were on a maintenance frequency (minimal tolerable amount) of sex.
I do think she was getting to O most of the time during that period. I also think as hard as it is for us guys to believe - for a woman - having an O does not imply overall enjoyment of sex/desire to have sex. Meaning for some amount of time during those sexual encounters my wife was lying there thinking - when is this going to be over?
I am coming around to thinking that a mutually satisfying sexual marriage is at best a 1/5 proposition and maybe more rare then that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phateless
SHE is struggling for power by withholding, while he just wants his wife to want him again.
SHE is struggling for power by withholding, while he just wants his wife to want him again.
Agree, but why would she do that? And especially why when, on those occasions she "gives in", she seems to have a good time? Why is she using sex (again, maybe not a conscious decision) to balance the books?
That's the question TDP should be asking himself. Not why does she withold, but what does she gain by doing so? Because if all he wants is 20 minutes twice a week, it's certainly not a huge task time-wise for her to cooperate. So this must be about something more than schedules...
Agree, but why would she do that? And especially why when, on those occasions she "gives in", she seems to have a good time? Why is she using sex (again, maybe not a conscious decision) to balance the books?
That's the question TDP should be asking himself. Not why does she withold, but what does she gain by doing so? Because if all he wants is 20 minutes twice a week, it's certainly not a huge task time-wise for her to cooperate. So this must be about something more than schedules...
Mr. Lucky
I have no idea... I think that's what drives us insane. It gets turned into something 20 times bigger than it is based on underlying fears that have nothing to do with us, yet it is somehow our responsibility to overcome these fears that aren't our own for the other person.
That's the question TDP should be asking himself. Not why does she withold, but what does she gain by doing so? Because if all he wants is 20 minutes twice a week, it's certainly not a huge task time-wise for her to cooperate. So this must be about something more than schedules...
Mr. Lucky
it's about knowing that he really wants it and that puts her under pressure and ultimately off it... when they have sex, she is in the mood and therefore she enjoys it... that's what I learned in my marriage... frustrating, maybe, but - as we all know - it's all in the head for women...
Yeah, I think there is a difference between sexual frequency when a woman is a GF vs. wife. For me there is.
Some of it of course, its the newness of a bf/gf relationship. But for me, most of it is just not living together. If you dont live together, every meeting is planned around many of the other aspects of your day to day life. Every meeting is planned for. You purposely make time to see each other, thats the activity - being together. Usually including sex. It might seem more spontaneous, but really its less so because you have a reasonable expectation of having sex nearly every time you see each other. That expectation alone creates the necessary sexual tension.
Now for me, personally...I love getting ready to see a guy, especially when I have put aside the time to share each others attention. I love the getting dressed, smelling nice, being soft all over, doing my hair...you get it. All of that expectation and prep set a nice scene for me. As a wife living with him...its different. I'm sure some of it has been my own fault, but I really prefer to have sex when I am FREE and when I've spent some time on myself getting ready. It isnt that an unexpected quicky is out of the question...but I prefer the alternative. I guess.
__________________
"She looks like the real thing She tastes like the real thing My fake plastic love."
Radio Head
"What makes one think its okay to deny sex if both like it?"
Well, I would think if both like it, one wouldn't be denying it.
For me, back when I was married, it wasn't that I didn't like sex. It was I didn't like the person my spouse had become. Was it always like that? Of course not. We had a wonderful sex life, that is until he started being an ass. Which came first the chicken or the egg senario? Well, since I was the one married to him I was the one that wintessed the things I did then yes I can honestly say in MY situation HE started being an ass first. His temperment had changed, all kinds of things took place, that end up making me NOT feel close to him in a sexual way. Yes, it began to dwindle over time. There is no way I would continue to have sex with a person I no longer cared for because he chose to be an ass, and do some of the thing he was doing. I refused to be one of these women who would continue to lay down for her man because it was the "right thing to do" when I was not being treated very well in our relationship. Its not all about give and give to him so he can take and take. Please!
Yeah we later on divorced for several reasons, it was the best choice I ever made.
This is just based on MY experience though, everyone else might be different.
__________________ "If you're tired of beating that same dead horse....then just stop!"
or maybe, just maybe your spouse doesn't orgasm from sex with you, perhaps she agrees to the amount of sex that she does have out of love for you and simply fakes orgasm at times.
You aren't a stupid man.. if somebody tells you they really enjoy doing something with you.. but they then give every reason under the sun as to why they don't want to partake of the same activity again, that means they are probably not enjoying that activity as much as you think they are.
I think a better question to ask your wife would be how many times per month she's willing to "take one for the team" so to speak.
Last edited by soserious1; 26th October 2009 at 4:22 PM..
I am under no delusions about myself, skills, my attractiveness...... Trust me though she does orgasm, otherwise she really wouldn't bother giving me the time of day in that regard. And certainly would not bother faking it. There are other issues from her past that I know affect it.... The good news in my view is she is not interested in all with anyone else, and I guess I should be very grateful that there is no competition there..... Just trust me that what I say is correct....... I am sure Giotto, JamesM and others on this site will attest to the same thing.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by soserious1
or maybe, just maybe your spouse doesn't orgasm from sex with you, perhaps she agrees to the amount of sex that she does have out of love for you and simply fakes orgasm at times.
You aren't a stupid man.. if somebody tells you they really enjoy doing something with you.. but they then give every reason under the sun as to why they don't want to partake of the same activity again, that means they are probably not enjoying that activity as much as you think they are.
I think a better question to ask your wife would be how many times per month she's willing to "take one for the team" so to speak.
I am under no delusions about myself, skills, my attractiveness...... Trust me though she does orgasm, otherwise she really wouldn't bother giving me the time of day in that regard. And certainly would not bother faking it. There are other issues from her past that I know affect it.... The good news in my view is she is not interested in all with anyone else, and I guess I should be very grateful that there is no competition there..... Just trust me that what I say is correct....... I am sure Giotto, JamesM and others on this site will attest to the same thing.....
You know, I'm going to give up now and give you what is obviously the only answer you want to hear.
Your wife refuses sex with you because she,like all women is an evil, scheming douche bag who lured you into marrying her and now intends to torture you by keeping you begging for sex for the rest of your life.
got it now? we married women refuse to sexor our husbands because we're evil horrible bitches and no amount of flowers, sweet talk or you 'helping" to care
for your own kids or the house that you also live in will ever make us want to polish your knob more often.
There it is,he answer you've been digging for.. now
Seriously, given that your wife isn't having an affair is it even remotely possible that she
just has a lower physical sex drive than you do? that she enjoys being close with you and that
on many occasions she'll have sex to be considerate of you but that she just doesn't have the drive you do and
that she's good at faking at it because she knows she's not going to orgasm no matter what and she wants the
experience to be good for you ?
I mean is it possible that your wife just has a lower desire level and drive and that these factors would be
present no matter who she was married to?
I'm sorry if I sound harsh here but you reach a point in a marriage where you've got to decide, is the sex
issue fixable? if it's not how important is having a lot of sex to you? if being highly sexual is important enough
you let your spouse know in a MC office that the issue is a deal breaker, if nothing changes you hire a divorce lawyer.
I can't imagine living my life for years and years and years asking the same question over and over again.
Last edited by soserious1; 26th October 2009 at 5:33 PM..
If I was alone with this lament..... you'd be 100% right....
soserious1 you don't know the minutiae of my situation, but as said I know what I read here from other males and what I posted from my informal poll with friends 2 weeks ago..... I at least can rationalize this that I am not alone. Though it could be simple, all of us males (generally) are delusional.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by soserious1
You know, I'm going to give up now and give you what is obviously the only answer you want to hear.
Your wife refuses sex with you because she,like all women is an evil, scheming douche bag who lured you into marrying her and now intends to torture you by keeping you begging for sex for the rest of your life.
got it now? we married women refuse to sexor our husbands because we're evil horrible bitches and no amount of flowers, sweet talk or you 'helping" to care
for your own kids or the house that you also live in will ever make us want to polish your knob more often.
There it is,he answer you've been digging for.. now
Seriously, given that your wife isn't having an affair is it even remotely possible that she
just has a lower physical sex drive than you do? that she enjoys being close with you and that
on many occasions she'll have sex to be considerate of you but that she just doesn't have the drive you do and
that she's good at faking at it because she knows she's not going to orgasm no matter what and she wants the
experience to be good for you ?
I mean is it possible that your wife just has a lower desire level and drive and that these factors would be
present no matter who she was married to?
I'm sorry if I sound harsh here but you reach a point in a marriage where you've got to decide, is the sex
issue fixable? if it's not how important is having a lot of sex to you? if being highly sexual is important enough
you let your spouse know in a MC office that the issue is a deal breaker, if nothing changes you hire a divorce lawyer.
I can't imagine living my life for years and years and years asking the same question over and over again.
soserious1 you don't know the minutiae of my situation, but as said I know what I read here from other males and what I posted from my informal poll with friends 2 weeks ago..... I at least can rationalize this that I am not alone. Though it could be simple, all of us males (generally) are delusional.....
I didn't say that anybody is "delusional" what I am saying though is that you post this same question over and over, you reject every possible answer given.
What are you looking for here? are you looking to have your status as a victim validated? Are you looking for permission to hire a hooker or hit the strip clubs? Are you looking for permission to divorce?
You cannot make somebody burn with lust for you, at best you can negotiate a sex schedule that will satisfy some of your needs... but you can't make her or anybody else physically lust for you.. you can't force or guilt trip that response from anybody.
Question time for you, she doesn't want you with the same frequency and intensity that you want her.. what then will be your solution to this problem? How will you go forward, how will your reconcile your intense sexual needs with the reality that is your marriage?
I understand that my husband is not a woman, but it seems some men think women should have the same sexual needs and desires they have. We don't. We don't think about it in the same way, we don't think about it as often, we don't want it as much, and we have other things we'd rate right up there with sex like eating chocolate or a good book and a hot bath.
Accept that your wife isn't as sexual as you are and you're half way there. It seems you just don't want to accept it.
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Okay I'm going to be nasty now.... Apologies....
Hybrid Mode
