I think my marriage is ending - what about the kids?
Hi.
I've never posted to a forum in my life which is probably an indication of how much of a mush my mind is in at the moment.
I've been with my wife for 13 years, and married for 7. We have two wonderful boys 5 and 2 years old.
I guess it's fair to say that since the kids arrived our marraige has been 'functional' for the most part and I guess we've drifted apart somewhat. Certainly intimacy / sex which has cooled and had become a once every 3 weeks or so occasion.
I still love her, and until recently I thought she loved me.
However, lately she's become more and more unhappy and when we talked about it (in a long and emotionally charged conversation a few weeks ago) she claimed it was because she no longer loves me. She came out with a long list of things I do which p**s her off... stupid stuff like not putting the toilet seat down (all of which since then I've been very mindful of) and that I work too much and don't spend enough time with the kids (I do work a lot at home once the kids are in bed... but I always have). When she was a full time teacher she worked at home more than I did (part time now)
She claims she's lost her identity and doesn't have any time for herself... I've never stopped her doing anything she wants and have often said she should go out with her friends more. I only see my friends rarely too.
So over recent weeks I've given her more space, had the boys more, done more round the house... basically tried to fix the things that I could. But I'm getting cold shoulder, bad attitude and a completely frosty reception (no intimacy... even hugs)
I know she's hooked up with an ex boyfriend on facebook who is talking to her about stuff which pi*ses me off... (I saw some of it on her internet history - him saying that my kids wouldn't be a problem to him!!!)... now she's changed her passwords on her accounts and is deleting history... generally being more 'careful'
LAst night she was supposed to be out with a friend... came in v late... her phone was on the table this morning so I checked txt messages - messages from that friend which made it clear she was in a bar / club with someone else (her friend telling her in some msgs to be careful)...
Now my head is spinning... If we didn't have the kids I'd leave... I hate her for what she's doing and I don't feel I deserve it... I've only ever given her love and tried to provide for us all.
But what do I do?... if I confront, how did I find out?... looking at her phone?... not a great trust sign... If I confront, the thought of not being with her, I can live with... but not being with my sons???.... the thought kills me and scares me.
But I know I can't go on like this... I'm walking on eggshells and trying to make her happy... I just dont think things will improve and suspect that now she's meeting this guy who she'd been 'chatting with' previously. I've had lots of opportunities over the years to be unfaithful and have never taken them.
But like I say, my main concern is losing my sons... I love them more than I can say... even as I type this I'm getting upset at the thought of not being with them all the time.
Any advice might help my head stop spinning and my stomach knotting....
What you do is you calmly sit her down.
You lok her in the face, and you say the following:
"I'm pretty sure - because I'm not stupid - that someone else is on the scene. I'm not accusing you of having an affair, but it's completely clear to me that your interests are totally somewhere else, and that as far as you're concerned I'm the fly in the ointment stopping you from moving on.
Please be so kind as to not treat me like the dumb ass you seem to think I am, have a bit of respect, and be up-front with me.
This is not doing me good, it's not doing the boys any good and it sure isn't doing you any good to go on living a double life, hiding things and being deceitful.
If you want out, fine. But could we at least do a couple of sessions of counselling.
It's not designed to keep us together, because I don't think you want that. You've already left this marriage.
I just want to get closure and do what's best for the boys because having two happy parents separated is better than having two miserable parents together.
And if you think they don't pick up on this, trust me, They do.
I'm giving us this one opportunity to behave like responsible adults and be frank with each other. At least give me that....
So please, what would you like to tell me?"
And then, brace yourself, and shut up.
__________________
"Hatred never ceases through hatred, but hatred ceases by love alone. This is the essence of the ancient and eternal law."
"We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts; with our thoughts, we make the world."
I think Geishawhelk's advice is very good. You can't keep someone if they don't want you to have them. You will both continue to be miserable under these circumstances, and the kids will truly suffer.
Thing is, she may not really know what she wants right now. When a marriage gets burdened as this one has, it's easy to start picking your partner apart and forget about the good things. It doesn't necessarily mean that she doesn't want the marriage anymore, but it's a clear indicator that change is necessary.
One mistake I think you can make right now is simply giving in to everything she wants. Listening to, and trying to rectify her complaints without expecting anything better/change from her would be a mistake and only cause more resentment on your part later on. I mean change that impacts how you got there in the first place...not that she simply stops seeing someone else.
There are alternatives to divorce. Many may not agree with me here, but I believe if I were in your same position (and I've seen it from both sides so I have a little experience here) I would have the talk suggested above, and if the results are that she is interested in someone else, you can suggest an "in house" separation or an open marriage which will allow you BOTH the opportunity to see what you want.
I fully believe that if your marriage will work based on what you've said and what I've interpreted and experienced, you will have to give her the freedom to make her mistakes and see that the grass isn't greener on the other side. She also can deal with the possibility of really losing YOU to SOMEONE ELSE. But demand that it is all above board, no sneaking around, no lying.
There are a couple of benefits to that in my opinion. Besides knowing that YOU might leave HER because you find someone else, you take away the allure of the hidden affair. There is a fantasy that goes with that. A married person in an affair because of a rocky marriage like this often fantasizes how much better things would be with this new person. There is happiness and fun that they aren't experiencing at home. But, they are seeing a limited version of what the real relationship would be like. They aren't dealing with daily challenges. The kids aren't involved. He says now the kids won't be a problem, but he's only seeing this same aspect as she is. You can take the fun and excitement of the hidden relationship away from them. There is power in that.
If you are to do that, you really have resolve yourself to not asking her questions, not prying into what she's doing, and maintaining the facade that you are investigating other options as well. And I say facade because I don't believe you will take the opportunity to really do this, even though maybe you should. You should also insist on counseling together to help work on your issues to at least improve your relationship and help you stay on even ground as this plays out as was suggested above.
Divorce is a scary thing and it's hard, hard, hard to go through, but it is something that gets easier. I know the thought of living without your children is killing you, but understand that most judges would be willing to offer a 50/50 parenting plan. It isn't ideal, but when you start to realize that you don't have to live walking on eggshells anymore and you can seek happiness and you can really have quality time with your children instead of being preoccupied and distracted and worried, it starts looking like a much better option.
Just be prepared for her to Deny, Deny, Deny, and to Lie Lie Lie! Also she will try to blame you for her affair, don't let her do that, that is her decision to cheat, not yours!
I feel very sorry for you. It seems pretty obvious she is carrying on an affair. The above posters advise is very good. It really sounds like an exit affair meaning she really wants out of the marriage. I would strongly suggest that you contact an attorney just to understand the various options involved and what to expect. Knowledge is power.
You will feel more stable if you understand the various options that are on the table. Right now you are in semi-shock and at a loss as to what to do. You need to be prepared for the various complications that will arise. I wish you luck.
I feel very sorry for you. It seems pretty obvious she is carrying on an affair. The above posters advise is very good. It really sounds like an exit affair meaning she really wants out of the marriage. I would strongly suggest that you contact an attorney just to understand the various options involved and what to expect. Knowledge is power.
You will feel more stable if you understand the various options that are on the table. Right now you are in semi-shock and at a loss as to what to do. You need to be prepared for the various complications that will arise. I wish you luck.
Unfortunately, I agree. You will not lose your sons, stop thinking that way. You will co-parent and it is better than two people living together that are miserable. I hope I am wrong and you two can work it out.
I think there's a common thread in there which his almost impossible for me to face... but deep down.... under all this pain, all these questions, all this 'what if'... above all, under all this fear... in my heart of hearts, I think I know it.
Just now, I do feel like I'm in shock, and I don't feel I have the strength to deal with this yet... but I know I must... and I know I will.
This current situation is tearing me apart and I will NOT allow the boys to suffer because of it... that's where I must get my strength from. I just never thought that one day I'd find myself in the situation that I've seen so many others in... (and I know no-one has a divine right to happiness!)
I'm not sure which path to take... the open marriage will hurt as despite my current feelings of hate, I know I still feel the same for her deep down... but I see the logic of taking away the 'thrill' of the affair and injecting some reality?
I worry that if I leave, the outsiders view will be that I left them... left her to 'cope' with two children... what a bas**rd etc...
I think I do need to talk to a legal advisor or similar to try and regain some control / knowledge... I may not have mentioned, but I live in the UK - I have NO idea how divorces / parental rights etc work here....
But I have to say, it helps merely to know that I haven't had a barrage of people telling my I'm an idiot!... thanks for your empathy.
However, lately she's become more and more unhappy and when we talked about it (in a long and emotionally charged conversation a few weeks ago) she claimed it was because she no longer loves me. She came out with a long list of things I do which p**s her off... stupid stuff like not putting the toilet seat down (all of which since then I've been very mindful of) and that I work too much and don't spend enough time with the kids (I do work a lot at home once the kids are in bed... but I always have). When she was a full time teacher she worked at home more than I did (part time now)
Was the subject brought up by either of you (you? her?) or did it just "came up"?
Quote:
She claims she's lost her identity and doesn't have any time for herself... I've never stopped her doing anything she wants and have often said she should go out with her friends more. I only see my friends rarely too.
So over recent weeks I've given her more space, had the boys more, done more round the house... basically tried to fix the things that I could. But I'm getting cold shoulder, bad attitude and a completely frosty reception (no intimacy... even hugs)
You said you are trying to fix what you could... but did she encourage you to fix anything at all?
Did she express any intention of sorting problems out or working on the marriage?
Dis she say your marriage still has a chance?
Whan you had 'the talk', it was more of a "I do not love you anymore, i want out" thing, or of a "I do not love you anymore, if you love me do something about it"?
I am asking because your W reminds me of the married person I am seeing. Before our affair became physical, he had a "I do not love you anymore, for me the marriage is over, I want to live my own life" talk with his W.
He did not mention the fact that he was seeing me, but yet he felt like his conscience was relatively clean (which I find quite disturbing, but I'm digressing).
So I wonder whether you are in the very same situation with your W.
Quote:
I know she's hooked up with an ex boyfriend on facebook who is talking to her about stuff which pi*ses me off... (I saw some of it on her internet history - him saying that my kids wouldn't be a problem to him!!!)
...and I have to say it does sound like you are, I hope I am wrong.
I really like Geishawhelk's advice. Confront her asap.
Was the subject brought up by either of you (you? her?) or did it just "came up"?
It came about as she asked if I'd been on her computer... and I just thought... "f**k it" and said yes and said I didn't know what was going on with her and was worried about what she might have been getting into as she'd been behaving so weird... then all her stuff came out...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adunaphel
Did she express any intention of sorting problems out or working on the marriage?
Dis she say your marriage still has a chance?
At the time she said she as unhappy and something like "it would've been easy to just leave but I haven't had I"... not exactly a resounding afirmation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adunaphel
Whan you had 'the talk', it was more of a "I do not love you anymore, i want out" thing, or of a "I do not love you anymore, if you love me do something about it"?
I didn't get the impression it was really about me... more about what was going on with her... the things she mentioned, I tried to 'fix' but never really felt that it would change her feelings... I just hoped that would change itself...
The strange thing is it's only recently we were talking about the subject of whether we'd have another child... I said I didn't want to (number 2, though I love him more than I can say has been 2 years of HARD work and severe sleep deprivation for both of us) - I know me saying that upset her and still does and maybe that's been the trigger for all this (?)... When we spoke, she said she still felt animosity towards me for taking that option away from her... I said I was being honest and telling her how I felt now... in the future... who knew?
(Don't get me wrong... I have no intention of bringing another child into this world to try and fix this)
I guess I'm still trying to find the reason... the root cause... and maybe that's a pointless exercise?...
One thing you have to get a handle on is that her dissatisfaction in the marriage is her responsibility. WS's are , generally, not the best communicators or problem solvers> That's why they turn to affairs to address problems that may be able to be worked out in other ways.
Her littany of complaints is her way of justifying her affair. And, of course, in your depleted state, there is a tendency to take them to heart and feel that your alleged deficiencies caused the affair.
If you were in a less vulnerable stae, not so devestated, I'm sure you have similar areas where she was not meeting your needs.
Many time , a WS has unrealistic expectations both of what you can bring to the marriage and regarding your mind reading abilities to percieve her unexpressed complaints. This is consistent with how they hanlde the marital problems with an affair.
A WS is often immature and non-communicative with an inability to see his or her own deficiencies. They have not figured out that it is their own responsibility to voice their complaints and take steps to find happiness. They view the BS's role as the provider of happiness and satisfaction, yet they are deficient in meeting the BS's needs. Most experts agree that when they look at most WS's and their contribution to the marriage, it was significanlyt less than that of the BS.
The only way a marriage can survive is if the WS steps up to the plate and acknowledges that the affair was wrong and entirely their decision > See, they had access to divorce or counseling but abdicated their responsibility to avail themselves of these honorable options.
I guess I'm still trying to find the reason... the root cause... and maybe that's a pointless exercise?...
Not at all... the moment you find the real root cause, you will probably know if it can be fixed. But you cannot find it by yourself, your wife should either disclose what the real problem is (if she is aware of it) or cooperate to find it together. You cannot try to save a marriage on your own - it takes two.
Quote:
When we spoke, she said she still felt animosity towards me for taking that option away from her... I said I was being honest and telling her how I felt now... in the future... who knew?
If this is where the problems started, at least it is a recent thing.
I guess that the longer an issue has been around, the harder it is to fix it.
So your wife's crisis could be a recent thing, too.
(Do not get me wrong - I am not justifying her in any way)
Quote:
At the time she said she as unhappy and something like "it would've been easy to just leave but I haven't had I"... not exactly a resounding afirmation
Not very promising, but at least it's better than a "I want to leave".
Quote:
I didn't get the impression it was really about me... more about what was going on with her... the things she mentioned, I tried to 'fix' but never really felt that it would change her feelings... I just hoped that would change itself...
Some serious talk is in order.
If something could be done, she cannot expect you to make all the effort without partecipating.
If nothing could be done, she owes it to you to let you know, so you do not waste your time trying to fix the unfixable.
...and please think carefully about what is best for you, focus also on how you are feeling, on your own needs...on whether you still want to be with her, whether you could trust her or respect her again.
if you do decide to stay, and to work things out, I truly hope it's for yourself as well as for the kids. Why are you assuming you'd lose them if you separated??
Last edited by Adunaphel; 28th September 2008 at 7:23 PM..
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