[clara]

I've been reading this forum for a while and would like some thoughts.

I met a MM, an old friend, about 3 months ago. Since then we've been intensely romantic, but no sex, no spending time in private places, i don't allow him to come over to my house, and no spending time any time after dark. I told him I would stop seeing him if we touched each other.

He tells me that he is thinking about leaving his wife, but he has made no promises. I don't really want promises of course, I just want him to leave.

He doesn't have children. He is not an ideal man by most standards, but he's what I want. I feel that very simply, along with the madness of course. I don't yet feel depressed about it. There are moments, yes, but the fact we aren't having sex does help some with the dignity. But from reading these forums I assumed that if he was going to leave he'd leave in the first few months. The first few months are about up, soon. I'm going away for a month soon. I don't know how NC is possible, I guess--I mean if you're in this forum you know how hard it is with phones and the internet--I can say NC, but doing it is something else entirely. I have no problem having a full life and having other friends, but I have a problem changing the structure of whats in my brain.

I kissed him this week--my doing, not his--and I started to doubt my ability to not touch him.

Thanks for any thoughts of people who've been in the same situation. I want to be able to imagine NC. But I think if I'm honest with myself my reasons for NC would be because I want him to decide to choose me, and I suppose I think NC will help that, which is not really the right reason for NC as far as I can tell.

Clara

[writeon]

Originally Posted by clara

I told him I would stop seeing him if we touched each other.

..............

I kissed him this week--my doing, not his--and I started to doubt my ability to not touch him.

Does a kiss not count as a "touch"? Your lips touched his. It seems to me you don't have the ability not to touch him and you already broke your standard -- that if you touched each other you would stop seeing each other (even though it was already an EA so how does it make it justified that you didn't "touch" him until now?). Furthermore you initiated the "touch", sending him mixed messages. No wonder he sends you mixed messages (words of "I'd like to leave her" versus inaction).

I am not trying to be harsh with you, I just don't understand your reasoning. You contradict yourself. My advice is to figure out what you want and stick with it with your actions. If you don't want to be the OW, then don't be the OW. And right now you are the OW. Tell him to call you if he ever really does get divorced.

[LakesideDream]

Originally Posted by clara

I've been reading this forum for a while and would like some thoughts.

I met a MM, an old friend, about 3 months ago. Since then we've been intensely romantic, but no sex, no spending time in private places, i don't allow him to come over to my house, and no spending time any time after dark. I told him I would stop seeing him if we touched each other.

He tells me that he is thinking about leaving his wife, but he has made no promises. I don't really want promises of course, I just want him to leave.

He doesn't have children. He is not an ideal man by most standards, but he's what I want. I feel that very simply, along with the madness of course. I don't yet feel depressed about it. There are moments, yes, but the fact we aren't having sex does help some with the dignity. But from reading these forums I assumed that if he was going to leave he'd leave in the first few months. The first few months are about up, soon. I'm going away for a month soon. I don't know how NC is possible, I guess--I mean if you're in this forum you know how hard it is with phones and the internet--I can say NC, but doing it is something else entirely. I have no problem having a full life and having other friends, but I have a problem changing the structure of whats in my brain.

I kissed him this week--my doing, not his--and I started to doubt my ability to not touch him.

Thanks for any thoughts of people who've been in the same situation. I want to be able to imagine NC. But I think if I'm honest with myself my reasons for NC would be because I want him to decide to choose me, and I suppose I think NC will help that, which is not really the right reason for NC as far as I can tell.

Clara

Clara, you didn't mention your respective ages.. where you met, how long you've known each other... whether YOU were married... all that stuff matters... and will affect the responses you receive.

[clara]

I know I'm conflicting, yeah. I can take the harshness.

I'm 37, he's 49, we worked together a decade ago, and when I moved back to town I saw him and my heart dropped out. When I knew him a decade ago he was with a close friend, not married, and I didn't say anything.

This is his second marriage, though, which I know is bad.

[clara]

I guess what's true is I don't want to be the OW, but I do want him to leave. I don't want friendship, I don't want this to go on forever, and I don't know when it turns from just getting to know eachother and just opening his mind to the possibility of being with me to a pattern of forever. Is it after a month? Is it after two months? Is it after five months?

I guess the first thing that happened, besides just the wonderfulness and frequency of the connection-the first thing where he said anything--was five weeks ago.

Does that make sense? I think I'm probably here because I need horror stories about EA to ward me off. I think I can keep away from him if I don't ride in the car with him anymore, if we just meet in public.

[woodsfield]

i don't think you can ask anyone to end their marriage with a "snap of the finger", no matter how bad or troubled it is. i've never been there before so i can't tell you how long.

to me, you sound like you may be very confused on many levels. i hope someone here else can give you some advice that you need cause i can't.

[AppleV]

Originally Posted by clara

I guess what's true is I don't want to be the OW, but I do want him to leave. I don't want friendship, I don't want this to go on forever, and I don't know when it turns from just getting to know eachother and just opening his mind to the possibility of being with me to a pattern of forever. Is it after a month? Is it after two months? Is it after five months?

I guess the first thing that happened, besides just the wonderfulness and frequency of the connection-the first thing where he said anything--was five weeks ago.

Does that make sense? I think I'm probably here because I need horror stories about EA to ward me off. I think I can keep away from him if I don't ride in the car with him anymore, if we just meet in public.

Clara you have already had physical contact with him and its not surprising. when you are spending time with someone 'romantically' its only a natural progression (in most cases) for the R to become physical - affair or otherwise.
So whats the point in meeting him at all then, it doesnt matter if it is public place or not, thats not going to quash your desire for him.
Maybe its best if you tell him how you feel, tell him you want NC while you are both reflecting and if hes serious about leaving his W, then you can resume the R, on another level and much happier. who knows - after a few week of NC , you may decide that hes not for you after all??
I dont think you can think rationally about it until you remove yourself from his company and take a cold hard look at the facts. He is married and he hasnt left her yet - (btw 3 months is a very short time for him to make a life changing decision like that, in the small percentage of men who actually do leave thier wives, it usually takes them alot longer then 3 months)
But only you know what is best for you and only you know what is an acceptable length of time for decsions to be made.

[anotherother24]

The best advice is to RUN....run like hell!! ...I swear you will wish you listened to that advice most likely...but I know, I didn't listen to that advice either! lol I would suggest not having sex no matter what though and atleast trying to end things. Make him stop thinking about leaving his wife and actually do it if that's whats best and if he then wants to be with you. I know it seems pretty great now but don't hurt yourself.

[ICallsEmAsISeesEm]

Originally Posted by clara

He tells me that he is thinking about leaving his wife, but he has made no promises.

LOL...they ALL say that! Where have YOU been hiding? Read these boards and you'll see they ALL make that promise. Would you be as happy to wait around for him and give him all those ego strokes if he told he was just looking for excitement on the side? No, I don't think so. So of COURSE he's going to feed you that bullsh*t line.

I don't really want promises of course, I just want him to leave.

Good luck with that.

He is not an ideal man by most standards....

Well THAT'S an understatement. He's already on marriage #2 and out screwing around. Don't think for a minute he wouldn't be all over you if you told him you'd have sex with him. The only reason you're NOT having sex is because YOU'VE set that boundary. He's looking to get laid. Change your mind and he'll be all over you like a pit bull on a meat wagon.

yes, but the fact we aren't having sex does help some with the dignity.

Maybe for you. He's still looking to get laid.

But from reading these forums I assumed that if he was going to leave he'd leave in the first few months.

I wouldn't monogram those towels just yet....

Oh, and by the way - is that who want to end up with? Some creep who deserts his wife because he found a 'better' deal elsewhere? And what are YOU going to do if you DO win this prize and down the road he's romancing someone ELSE, telling her that he's going to leave YOU? Please don't tell me you're that naive that you honestly believe you're so special to him that he won't do it to you? Please tell me that.

I kissed him this week--my doing, not his--and I started to doubt my ability to not touch him.

That's what he's hoping for. This 5 weeks of pretending he doesn't want sex is about to pay off for him.

But I think if I'm honest with myself my reasons for NC would be because I want him to decide to choose me, and I suppose I think NC will help that, which is not really the right reason for NC as far as I can tell.

Good luck with that. The guy sounds like a serial cheater. Please tell me you don't think you're his FIRST?

[frannie]

Originally Posted by AppleV

Maybe its best if you tell him how you feel, tell him you want NC while you are both reflecting and if hes serious about leaving his W, then you can resume the R, on another level and much happier. who knows - after a few week of NC , you may decide that hes not for you after all??

I dont think you can think rationally about it until you remove yourself from his company and take a cold hard look at the facts. He is married and he hasnt left her yet - (btw 3 months is a very short time for him to make a life changing decision like that, in the small percentage of men who actually do leave thier wives, it usually takes them alot longer then 3 months)

But only you know what is best for you and only you know what is an acceptable length of time for decsions to be made.

I think this is great advice. You need to distance yourself from him at this point, and tell him exactly what you will not accept (being the OW)... otherwise this could and probably will drag on for months if not years.

I also agree that 3 months is a very short amount of time for anyone to leave a marriage. Yes, some do it in that time, but really only if they already have decided absolutely that this is what they want, have emotionally distanced themselves already from their partner, and come to terms with disappointing family, hurting people, etc. Hard to say what the figures are, but most MM who leave and whose OW are posting on message boards typically left after years of an affair. Just check out the few examples on this board alone and see for yourself.

That's not to say your MM hasn't already got his foot out of the door. But don't fall into the trap of 'waiting and seeing'... because as I say, it ends up more waiting followed by a lot more waiting. Best to make your stand, and leave it at that. And no, that does not mean you would be 'going NC to make him make a choice', you'd be going NC because you don't want to end up being an OW. Make it about YOU.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Originally Posted by clara

1. I told him I would stop seeing him if we touched each other.

2. I kissed him this week--my doing, not his--and I started to doubt my ability to not touch him.

1. I doubt he believed you.

2. And this is why.

Everyone knows that in intense romantic situations, its only a matter of time before one or the other cracks. He was simply waiting you out, and will probably continue to do so until you give in sexually. Men are well aware that the way into your pants is by sweeping you off your feet romantically. I can tell you this - if you give in, you'll see the sex increase and the romance decrease, all while getting the million and one excuses about why he can't leave his wife.

Affairs start hot, and nearly always devolve from there. The ones who leave were already on the way out anyway. If this guy is content with his marital situation he isn't likely to leave.

If you want to see where this guy's heart really is, then tell him simply... "I love you, but I cannot and will not be the other woman in any way, shape or form - touching or not. I want to be with you, but until you are divorced and are living separately from your wife, there can be no 'us'. Feel free to contact me again when you are free to do so." He will contact you anyway, and you can remind him "No divorce = no contact" and hang up the phone.

If he wants to be with you, nothing will stop him - he will make that divorce happen one way or the other. If not, then well... at least you'll know that he had no intention of being with you except as an OW.

[Ariadne]

Clara,

It seems like you have the 30+ yr old syndrome of wanting a man and settling for the first thing that comes around, romanticizing him along the way.

Say, now you met this married guy that "is not an ideal man by most standards" ( but you saw him and you heart dropped out), and you want to be together forever and ever after he divorces his wife.

Of course he'll do so without being romantic, kissing you, or having sex with you. He'll just propose or divorce or something.

(But then, you are so horny and desperate that you are throwing yourself at him and kissing him)

Sounds as crazy as it gets.

But I know, it's not easy finding men etc etc.

[EmeraldEyedGirl]

I guess I am a little confused here...

You are expecting him to leave his W after 3 months of reconnecting...And you didn't say that you were ever romantically involved, right?

That is the equivalent of expecting him to divorce for a date...Not logical, is it?

He wants sex...They all want the sex in the beginning, that's just a fact...He's waiting you out...If you don't want to be the OW, you should leave him alone...Just being honest...

EEG

[Dark-N-Romantic]

I have some thoughts. What's wrong with...

1) doing what is right ultimately by NOT engaging in romantic interactions with someone else's spouse?
2) taking charge of your life and taking responsibility for your actions by not putting yourself in the role as the other person?
3) show respect for yourself and the man's wife by not interfering in their marriage?
4) finding a man with similar qualities, but with one major one honor and respect for his word and to the commitments he makes?
5) think about someone else but yourself in the form of the wife who deserves people to observe the "forsaking all others" part of the vows despite the actions of their spouse?

I say be careful for what you do, there is a cost to engaging in an affair willfully.


DNR

[clara]

Thank you all for your thoughts. They are very helpful, and very astute.

The one place where I disagree is the over 30 part, if only because I was dating someone amazing, fit, kind, and good and smart when I met MM--I broke up with him before MM and I started talking--and have continued to date while this is going on. So I don't think I'm desperate, although I do feel desperate for the particular kind of conversations we have.

They are not, perhaps oddly, that intimate most of the time--its just about shared work and things we could talk to anyone about. Its a way of talking, a way of being, more than the content, that I find so incredibly powerful, and hard to move away from. And if you're on this forum you know the feeling that you have to lift several cars to keep yourself away from someone's body, too, not because that body is lovely, but because it is there.

I luckily have a kind of job that allows for alot of travel, and I've just planned another 6 weeks out of town after the one month out of town that I'd already planned. To be frank, I have NO IDEA how I would create NC if that weren't the case. I really don't know. I don't know how people do it. I guess I just have to hope that in the two week interim between the month gone (only have to make it to Friday!) and the six weeks gone, nothing happens.

I really appreciate the words. I know you appreciate how hard it is. I feel like he's the man I've been waiting for all my life, I do, and while you can point out all the reasons I'm wrong about that, and you're probably right, the feeling is really really powerful.