This is a long post but I really need help! Do you think she is cheating?
Background facts.
We are in our early to mid fifties and she is about 5 yrs older than me. We have been married about 25 years, together 27 years. (even if you haven't been married this long, or even alive this long, read on because believe me you don't want this to happen to you!)
She has potential abandonment issues because she grew in rural Alabama and at the age of three her father just disappeared and nobody ever saw him again. She and her older sister were left at her Grandmother’s house out in the country by her mom for four years while she made a life in the city, remarried to a wealthy lawyer and brought both of them home to live with her.
She is headstrong in business but hates conflict at home. This is a dangerous combination for infidelity from what I've read.
She identifies with feminist movement [and I do to for most issues]. Unfortunately some feminists think a woman should be "free" to find "self actualization" (I mean sex) outside their marriages. This is so obviously wrong and morally bankrupt that I don't think I need to comment on it further.
The sex stopped more or less after our second child, over 15 years ago. She slept with us many nights. Anyway, I thought that my W's medical condition - hypothyroidism - was what caused the problems with sex. Sex slowly dwindled to every other month, and then eventually to twice a year or so.
The Confrontation: A year ago, I was alone for the weekend while she was in Chicago with the kids (teenagers). No problem there but for whatever reason, I started thinking about the last 10 years of a virtually sexless M.
There had been some warning signs over that period that I just didn't read very well and was in denial about. About 10 years ago a lingering touch by an younger male employee at a company party (on the forearam - one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three - that’s a long time). She's the boss and the in-charge, no nonsense type and he was not even a direct report.
I think that she could have been cheating during our entire marriage (25) years. She is very attractive, even now in her late 50's. She has always had a successful business with 40 or more employees and business reasons for being out of pocket during the day and frequently at night.
About eight years ago, the maid washed some men's underwear she found somewhere in the house and put them in my dresser. My W said that was from Boy Scouts trip my son had. (Whitey -tighties - my son said later that nobody he knows wears those kind of underwear). I had strong gut reactions that things just weren't right. But when I asked (mildly) about them, she just explained it away quickly like we don't need to spend much time talking about something so ridiculous.
For whatever reason, I'm thinking about all these questions I have had over the last 10 years, and it all starts to fall into place. It seems clear to me that she was having an A. She didn't want to touch me, or kiss me or hug me or really have anything to do with me.
The sudden realization of this situation really upset me. When she returned home, I confronted her with my questions. I made the mistake of letting my painful emotions get the better of me and openly wept as I tried to get through the process of talking to her about it.
Questions:
1. Please help me interpret her reaction. She did not come over and try to reassure me or hold me or act in any way warmly to me. She was angry and acted outraged. She said that we were living a lie because I had these suspicions for all those years and didn't tell her. She stayed about six feet from me in a chair while I was on the couch. Her body was pointed away from me. She didn't face me directly with her face or eyes. She spoke more slowly than usual. Is this normal?
2. As part of the confrontation, I told her that I was unhappy and that I was not going to live like this anymore. I told her that sex was a basic need for me and a dealbreaker. When I told her that sex was important to me and so important that I was not going to live without it anymore, she said "It's only f**king!"
That surprised me because she doesn't usually talk that way and because I was still in the "making love" frame of mind. In other words it was still something special to me. I don't know when it stopped being that way for her. Do you think her statement has any larger significance or meaning, as in somehow pointing to an A?
She agreed to work on that part of the M and we have been having sex on an almost weekly basis. She usually tells me how she doesn't like it and just closes her eyes and lays there until its over. It makes me feel like such a leper but we are doing it.
3. I have been trying to be a good husband. She doesn't want to do anything together. There is no place she wants to go and she definitely does not want a "get away weekend" with me or anything like that. My intention is do it by the book (Dr. Harley's) and be the best husband I can be, fulfill all her needs that I can but at some point I will have to decide if I can continue without any emotional connection coming from her. The last time we went out to eat she told me that we need to bring some friends next time because I has already heard everything that I have to say. All she does after hours is watch TV and (I suspect) make sure that she goes to bed long enough after I do to be sure that I'm already asleep.
4. She has told me on several occasions that we shouldn't have to work on our R, and to do so would ruin it. It feels to me like its ruined already, but I will keep trying for the time being.
5. Twice she told me that "a person can fall out of love." This was 10 years ago. I can't explain now why I didn't make her explain what she was talking about. I just didn't want to force the issue. It didn't really register what she was talking about or that she was trying to tell me about something that had already happened to her. I now believe that her statement translates directly to "I love you but I'm not in love with you."
I also think that the ILYBINILWY statement probably is a key indicator of some kind of affair. She told me that if our M ever ended she would never remarry. I thought that she meant that because I was her one true love. Not. It was because she was unhappy with the marriage.
6. She even told me once or twice that she was unhappy. I thought that she meant that she was not really happy with our circumstances, which were not perfect with kids and both running businesses and general stress, etc. I did not until later realize that this statement is code for I'm not happy with you or with our marriage.
7. Many times she has told me: "I'm (meaning her) no good at this." To me, it appeared that she was talking about being a parent and so I would tell how good a parent I thought she was and how her kids loved her etc. Was she trying to tell me something again? I never really studied relationships before. The only books I read were law or history or science, political biographies, etc. I didn't understand what she meant. I even gave her a little speech about how to be strong and appreciate what you have - you know a little pep talk.
8. I always thought that if she was not satisfied with our marriage that she would simply tell me plainly and if it no longer worked for her that she would file for divorce. Never in a million years did I think that she would just secretly go out and find another man. I was so naive and I believe that now I've paid the price for being so unaware.
9. The A (if there was one) is probably not still going on. My W and I are having sex now and it appears that she has not been having sex with anyone recently. So why should I care? One, there could be some kind of emotional affair. Two, it is still devastating that such a thing ever went on. Three, it is possible that the emotional gulf between will never be filled until she confesses her sins and I find a way to forgive her. Do you think that a full confession is the sole pathway to recaptured emotional intimacy?
10. She doesn't want me to pleasure her or give her an orgasm; she wants it to be over. I repeatedly offer oral, which she used to like, but won't let me do it now. She doesn't want me to touch her, massage her, rub her feet or back. She sits in the corner of the family room in a recliner, like she is ensconced in a shell. She won't sit next to me on the sofa.
11. She doesn't want any quality time with me. Literally the only thing we do together is watch TV and occasionally go out to eat. I am the one who needs physical touch and some human contact. She seems perfectly fine without any or at least without any from me.
12. About 8 years ago I gave her a nice diamond anniversary ring. When she got it, she cried. But it wasn't the big hug and smile and tears combined. (Before I got married, there were a number of women who actually did love me, so I know tears of joy when I see them). She cried and said thank you, but there was not much of a physical response, maybe a sideways hug and nothing later. I didn't give her the ring because I was trying to bribe her. I just wanted to do something nice for her. Can you interpret her behavior for me on this one?
13. Another Christmas about 7 years ago I bought her a nice china vase. Later in the day she said "I (her)guess you (me) just couldn't think of anything else to get for me." It wasn't overtly hostile, more like you poor inept person. I didn't really give it too much though I did remember it. I read on another thread that when there is an outside relationship going on, you could give her a truckload of diamonds and she'd find something wrong with it.
Background facts. After the confrontation:
All the other components of emotional distance are still present. She does not want to kiss, hold hands, hugs, snuggle, even really talk. She has told me that she is depressed but she is unwilling to see anyone about it because she thinks a person should be able to handle their problems on their own.
I cannot answer your question but it seems quite clear that your wife has no interest in acting like a married spouse. From what you have written it sounds like she has been emotionally abusing you for a long time. You are only this earth for such a short time. Why would you wish to spend the rest of your days in such a relationship? She sounds extremely cold and unfeeling. Why are you settling for this? If you do not respect yourself then who will?
If I had 2 guess, I'd say that she's most likely having an affair. At the least, the distance between you most likely came about because of an affair.
Is there any way you could verify besides asking her ("if you don't believe me, just ask me!)? If she's having an affair, she's not going 2 be truthful about it.
The signs from her current behavior 2ward you - including her reluctance 2 see a counselor - are the clues I'm referring 2 that she could still be having an affair.
Her anger is an admition of guilt, she was also "blame shifting" when she was yelling at you, the sex word she used more or less just undermines and devalues your concept of making love, basically put, she doesn't care about making love with you, just having wild nasty sex with other men, part of what I just statedis reading between the lines, but, I have a feeling that you know this already!
Are you planning on divorcing her? I would if I were you, you deserve better, she clearly has no remorse for what she has/is doing. She sounds like a cake eater. I would stop having sex with her and get tested for STDs. We're here for ya. Vader out!
__________________ -You don't know the Power of the Dark side! - I find your lack of faith disturbing! -The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force! - Darth Vader
Her reaction to your tearful concerns about an affair may or may not be "normal", but IMO they are not consistent with a loving, faithful wife hearing that her husband is having painful suspicions about their relationship. Not even close.
A loving, faithful wife would comfort you and do her reasonable best to dispel your fears. Only if you became abusive, or refused to accept her reasonable explanations over time, would it be excusable for her to show hostility. Hurt, maybe, but not hostility.
The men's briefs?? If that were the ONLY thing, it could be dismissed. I am sure you have children, relatives, visitors in your home, and gym bags, etc. going back and forth. However, as one detail among many, it is unpleasantly suggestive. You have laid out many specific facts that point to serious problems in your marriage, including the chance that your wife is neither loving nor faithful.
Quote:
Do you think that a full confession is the sole pathway to recaptured emotional intimacy?
TRUE intimacy....yes, I do. But this marriage needs more than just confessions of her likely affairs. It needs for her to stop treating you like a leper in bed, for example. However, it's likely she's doing this for a reason - not a fault in you, necessarily - and that reason would need to be learned, addressed, and cured for you ever to be happy.
Please read The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis.
__________________ Heavily medicated for your safety.
I think one of the most telling things you said was the bit about knowing the difference between her and someone who actually loves you. I guess that alone says it all.
You have basically described what it would be like to be married to Cruella Deville(101 dalmations villian). If you want love you won't get it from her.
Whether she's cheating or not it sounds like a dead marriage, and it sounds like you want and deserve better than that.
So, if I were you, I'd have a long talk with a good lawyer.
BladeRunner, Familiar story, I lived through a quarter century "bad" marriage as well. My situation was different as I was the primary bread winner... the only bread winner for 1/2 the marriage with changes the dynamic somewhat.
You didn't write about your children either. Mine were a big factor in extending the marriage, especially for my ex, she wanted to see them "up and out" before throwing bombs.
Regardless of whether your wife is, or has cheated, it sounds like she has checked out of the marriage completely. I never received the "signs" you have, my situation was different. Had my ex exhibited the behavior yours has, I would have taken steps to leave the marriage. Something I never did.
She may well be afraid of something as mundane as you laying claim to part of her business, or encumber her finances. That's a sad state. You need to get some personal help. IC? I have no experiance with it. Maybe LS will be enough to spur you into action, or at least resistance.
I'm sorry for your situation. Good Luck, there are few good days ahead for you.
It feels like nothing you ever do is good enough, right?
You need to stop beating yourself up about whether or not she had an affair.
Get a copy of Schnarch's "Passionate Marriage" and one of Robert Glover's "No more Mr. Nice Guy". Buy them because you'll probably need to read them a couple of times to understand them properly.
Blade, I occured to me that you might really "need" to know if she's cheating. Why not hire a PI ? I imagine you would balk at doing the snooping yourself, I know I wouldn't have been able to do it.
It's just money... seems like you have enough of it around. Do it and find out. So what if she catches you at it... she's given you ample reason.
This is a long post but I really need help! Do you think she is cheating?
After reading everything you posted, why is the answer to that question even important? Put it this way - yes, she is cheating. She is cheating you out of almost everything a spouse needs and deserves - compassion, intimacy, approval, love, etc. - the list goes on. Whether or not she's f***ing someone else is the least of your problems.
I'd be more inclined to stay with an otherwise good wife that I caught in the sack with a gang of Hell's Angels that with an otherwise faithful wife that treated me like yours treats you. Just my opinion...
Remember, infidelity is a physical act. Physical acts always have physical evidence asociated with them.
You can't prove infidelity with circumstantial evidence like men's underwear laying around, or subtle nuances in her communication or behavior. Such things may be signs of infidelity, but they don't prove it by themselves.
I suggest you collect physical evidence in order to obtain proof. One easy way to do this is by using a semen detection kit. (Semen is discharged from the vagina after sexual intercourse onto the woman's underwear and can be detected up to 36 hours later.) These kits are readily available on the Internet. Generally, they look for a couple of marker proteins in semen: acid phosphatase (AP) and prostate specific antigen (PSA). The PSA test is more sensitive and specific, and definitely will prove 100% that it's semen.
This technology is used worldwide by forensics labs to prove the presence of semen. A Google or Yahoo search on "semen detection kit" will turn up quite a few. I personally found mine by searching for "insite kit."
Sometimes it can take a while to catch her, so you have to be persistent. Once you have the evidence, then confront her. There's only one way semen can get on her underwear (assuming you haven't had sex in 3 days), and that's from another man.
From what you described of her FOO background, her behavior towards you doesn't really come as a great surprise. Her fear of abandonment may prevent her from establishing emotional connections with others, especially you. What is really surprising is that you seem to have been oblivious to all these things for all these years. Frankly I don't see the point in having sex with an emotional statue. Maybe its time for you to realize that she won't change because she doesn't acknowledge that she has serious issues that have turned the marriage into an emotional desert.
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