It seems like christians think they hear from God better than anyone else. They think they are so special and have a unique line to God that they feel it's their business and duty to testify on God's behalf as to what he expects from me and how he feels about me and where I'm going when I die.
Why can't christians trust God to tell me Himself what He expects out of me and what He wants from me? Why do christians expect me to just take their word for it? If God is real and He is angry at me or whatever then I want Him to tell me Himself. I don't care what christians have to say on God's behalf.
I don't believe anyone can know what the truth is about God by listening to a human voice. I want God Himself to show me what the truth is not some self righteous preacher who thinks he has the answers to everything.
Why do christians insist that their beliefs are the answer for everybody? Why don't they encourage me to discover for myself if their beliefs will work for me?
From what I've learned christians don't really care what I have to say. They are just waiting for me to open my mouth so they can come back with "you still have to submit to what we believe because it is written in this book."
To any christians out there who read this let me ask you this: Do I have a right to question the validity of the bible? Do you believe your God will get mad at me and throw me in hell for questioning the validity of a religious book such as the bible?
Afterall men have re-written the bible over and over down through the centuries to justify slavery, racism, sexism, burning people at the stake who would not convert to christianity. So how am I to trust the current bibles available at wal-mart?
It just seems many christians will try to discourage me from using my brain. Their preachers want to do my thinking for me and tell me how to live and what to believe. Well God should have made me a robot if He didn't want me to question everything. Why would He give people free will if He doesn't respect their choice to use their free will to question everything?
If I ever have kids I will keep them as far away from church and the bible as I can. I will encourage them to question everything. Christian politicans don't want us to question. They want to impose a universal morality.
To answer your questions. Yes, you have every right. I was you until about a year ago, when I tried to commit suicide. I kept my children far away from "religion". I question if there was a God and if their was why would he let so many bad things happen(my father died of cancer within months of finding out)I cursed God and refused to be a part of a community of people who kept telling me it was God's will.
I don't know what it is you are looking for in life, but if you are happy with it, why care what Christians have to say? You see, I wasn't happy with my decision. I challenged God to show me he was indeed with me. He did. That was enough for me.
I found a church with a pastor who encourages you to question and study to find the answers you need. He says that if you only listen to some one else interpret the word, you will never know if they are telling you the truth. He also says you have to experience the truth to understand. You have every right(free will) to question, make fun of, mock, it is all within your right.
I hear God because I ask for his guidance and forgiveness for my sins and then I listen. His answers come in many forms and I am still in the learning stage. But that is my testimony to your. Pray you find your peace.
I hear God because I ask for his guidance and forgiveness for my sins and then I listen. His answers come in many forms and I am still in the learning stage.
beautifully said, bent!
one can rant, rave, question, doubt, be skeptical ... it's all "allowable" because it's part of that person's particular spiritual journey. When others pipe up and share their experiences, it's because they're hoping to be able to illustrate how God has worked in their lives, and that He's working in others' lives, too.
God reveals the truth 24/7, that's a given. What screws up the dialogue is that we sometimes fail (or refuse) to listen because we're so busy dodging or ignoring His end of the conversation!
They think they are so special and have a unique line to God that they feel it's their business and duty to testify on God's behalf as to what he expects from me and how he feels about me and where I'm going when I die.
hate to burst your bubble, kiddo, but I am special *precisely* because I'm a child of God ... we're ALL special that way, whether we claim our relationship with him or not! As to where you're going when you die, well, that's completely up to you; YOU choose heaven or hell, so to speak, by your actions. Even if someone damns you to hell, it really has no bearing because that person is not directing your spiritual journey, you know? The most they can hope to do is give encouraging witness of a God who loves you more than you could ever fathom.
as to what God expects from you, I think Jesus summed it up best: Love God, and love one another. Because really, all you need is love to make it in this lifetime.
hugs,
quank
__________________ "Walking in the Lord's footsteps, our own lives become a journey of hope." – Pope Benedict XVI
Yes even some Pastafarians (members of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti monster) would even claim to have a special connection to the FSM.
Use your brain, your reason and follow your curiosity. It is ok to think outside the box and don't let other peoples insecurities in life spill over into yours.
It seems like christians think they hear from God better than anyone else. They think they are so special and have a unique line to God that they feel it's their business and duty to testify on God's behalf as to what he expects from me and how he feels about me and where I'm going when I die.
Why can't christians trust God to tell me Himself what He expects out of me and what He wants from me? Why do christians expect me to just take their word for it? If God is real and He is angry at me or whatever then I want Him to tell me Himself. I don't care what christians have to say on God's behalf.
I don't believe anyone can know what the truth is about God by listening to a human voice. I want God Himself to show me what the truth is not some self righteous preacher who thinks he has the answers to everything.
I hear God because I ask for his guidance and forgiveness for my sins and then I listen. His answers come in many forms and I am still in the learning stage.
beautifully said, bent!
one can rant, rave, question, doubt, be skeptical ... it's all "allowable" because it's part of that person's particular spiritual journey. When others pipe up and share their experiences, it's because they're hoping to be able to illustrate how God has worked in their lives, and that He's working in others' lives, too.
God reveals the truth 24/7, that's a given. What screws up the dialogue is that we sometimes fail (or refuse) to listen because we're so busy dodging or ignoring His end of the conversation!
They think they are so special and have a unique line to God that they feel it's their business and duty to testify on God's behalf as to what he expects from me and how he feels about me and where I'm going when I die.
hate to burst your bubble, kiddo, but I am special *precisely* because I'm a child of God ... we're ALL special that way, whether we claim our relationship with him or not! As to where you're going when you die, well, that's completely up to you; YOU choose heaven or hell, so to speak, by your actions. Even if someone damns you to hell, it really has no bearing because that person is not directing your spiritual journey, you know? The most they can hope to do is give encouraging witness of a God who loves you more than you could ever fathom.
as to what God expects from you, I think Jesus summed it up best: Love God, and love one another. Because really, all you need is love to make it in this lifetime.
hugs,
quank
It's not for you to tell me what God expects out of me. I don't want to hear it from a human voice. If God is real then He needs to show himself to the world beyond reasonable doubt.
My position is pretty clear. Believe whatever the hell you want but if you want me to believe it then you better provide evidence or expect mockery. I don't mock anyone who does not deserve it. What is there to respect about someone's beliefs when they want me to believe it without proof?
You don't have a handle on what Jesus really taught. You have just read the writings of someone who claims what Jesus said. How do you know that bible really contains Jesus' words? Just because someone claims this is what Jesus said does not mean He really said it.
And no matter hos strongly you believe in something and no matter how sincere it does not necessarily make it real. It may be real to you but not necessarily real to everyone else.
I don't believe my afterlife destiny is up to me. Now the destiny of my earthly life is certainly up to me but my afterlife destiny is in God's hands.
I'm only responsible for my earthly life. Why? because I see evidence of that. There is evidence that if I don't work I don't eat. If I don't change the oil in the car then the engine will be ruined. There is no evidence that if I curse God that He'll strike me down. There is no evidence that I will reap any consequences from God.
Religion tries to turn it the other way around. They think my afterlife destiny is my choice but that I need to let God take control of my life here. I say it's the opposite. It's up to me to make my own heaven or hell in this life but the afterlife is in God's hands.
I do not believe anyone gets rewarded in the next life for doing good nor do I believe anyone will get punished or pay for their actions in the afterlife for doing bad. We reap what we sow in this life.
What if the whole concept of heaven and hell was invented to control the masses? What if it's just all made up to pacify us and make us feel better about how unfair this life is? I mean we see proof that bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.
So religion comes along to try to make us feel better about adoph hitler or mass murderers going to hell since they were not brought to justice in this life. Or we feel better about good people getting rewarded with heaven since nobody is guaranteed to get a reward here for doing good.
So I understand the emotional needs that religion can fulfill because this life is not fair. Christians want to believe that the virginia tech shooter will burn in hell especially if they lost family members or friends in that shooting.
But what if the idea of God was invented by man? What if this life is all there is? Those who got away with their crimes in this life will never receive justice. I know that's a disturbing thought for religious people. But that's still not a good reason for me to believe that I'm responsible for what happens to me after I die.
Last edited by barefoot880; 9th April 2008 at 1:27 PM.
To answer your questions. Yes, you have every right. I was you until about a year ago, when I tried to commit suicide. I kept my children far away from "religion". I question if there was a God and if their was why would he let so many bad things happen(my father died of cancer within months of finding out)I cursed God and refused to be a part of a community of people who kept telling me it was God's will.
I don't know what it is you are looking for in life, but if you are happy with it, why care what Christians have to say? You see, I wasn't happy with my decision. I challenged God to show me he was indeed with me. He did. That was enough for me.
I found a church with a pastor who encourages you to question and study to find the answers you need. He says that if you only listen to some one else interpret the word, you will never know if they are telling you the truth. He also says you have to experience the truth to understand. You have every right(free will) to question, make fun of, mock, it is all within your right.
I hear God because I ask for his guidance and forgiveness for my sins and then I listen. His answers come in many forms and I am still in the learning stage. But that is my testimony to your. Pray you find your peace.
I don't care what christians believe. I care about what they want to do with those beliefs and how that will eventually have consequences on the rest of us. I can't just stand back and bite my tongue.
I have just as much of a right as christians do to speak out. Christian politicans want to enforce their beliefs on the rest of society. It's only a matter of time before christians push for the cross to be shown on the american flag.
I love everything america originally stood for but I do not pledge allegiance to the flag because I don't believe we are one nation under God. I do not believe in pledging allegiance to a flag that has a cross on it either!
I want to stay as far away from anything that has any affiliation with God or Jesus Christ. Some dedicated christian politicans are trying to take away my right to do that.
I do not go door-door trying to convert people to agnosticism or atheism. If I was president or a politican I would not try to ban the bible. I would not try to legislate atheism or agnosticsm. I would not pass a law requiring anyone to learn this stuff in public school. I would not try to outlaw going to church.
But maybe it does not bother you that everyone may be forced to spend half their life on their knees praying to a God they don't believe in.
Last edited by barefoot880; 9th April 2008 at 1:36 PM.
Also I think it's a form of child abuse for any christian parents to show their kids images of satan and the horrors of hellfire or any of those movies about the end times.
It's spiritual and psychological abuse to expose your kids to that kind of stuff. It ought to be against the law and the parents should be prosecuted for this. It's worse than exposing them to pornography.
That's because I don't believe everyone will spend half their life on their knees praying to a God that they don't believe in. Heck, I don't believe that Christians spend half their life on their knees praying to a God they do believe in. I am not going door to door, I am not trying to change your mind, I am not trying to convert anyone. I have enough trouble keeping myself on the straight and narrow. I will witness about what God has done for me, and I hope my life itself is a witness. Do I believe I will get to heaven because of good works, nope. I believe I will sit in God's presence because of my obediance to his word.
I am not a flag waver because I don't pledge my alliagiance to a piece of cloth, only to God. And I don't believe that their is liberty and justice for all. I don't have to understand the works of God for him to exist. I don't understand the works of the universe and it exists. I don't understand the workings of the human mind or heart, but the exists. I don't understand the dynamics of the Mbutie tribe of the Amazon, but they exist.
I haven't shown my children any films on Satan, but to me parents who let their children watch music video channels are irresponsible, or parents who have multiple partners, or relationships with married people. It isn't my job to police them. It is my job to pray for them. And I do.
And your assumption that I don't have a handle on something that you don't believe in, is fairly comical. Not only do I have a handle, I have a relationship with my Heavanly Father. And it is rocky at times, but it is there and growing stronger with each passing day.
And just for the record, by your statements. If God is fake, then I have lost nothing, if he is real and I didn't believe, I have lost everything. And as far as me and my house, we will serve God.
But maybe it does not bother you that everyone may be forced to spend half their life on their knees praying to a God they don't believe in.
Maybe this will tick you off a little further.....but oh well......I have freedom of speech and the right to voice my opinion just as you do. And no, I'm not speaking on behalf of God right now, I'm just going to offer you a little common sense.....(I hope).
Do you honestly think that God cares to have a bunch of un-willing worshipers on their knees half of their life?
I would think not! True believers wouldn't insist on this either....
It's not for you to tell me what God expects out of me. I don't want to hear it from a human voice. If God is real then He needs to show himself to the world beyond reasonable doubt.
you remind me of that joke about the man stranded on the rooftop during a bad flood. "God," he prayed, "save me!"
at different times rescue workers and neighbors in boats showed up, but he kept telling them to leave him be. Finally, he cries out to God, upset because God had failed him.
"What do you mean? I sent all those people to help you, and you turned them away!" God tells him.
God works through others; or, if you will, believers understand that we are the hands of God, doing good so that those in doubt see His love reflected in our actions.
which leads to the "you decide your destiny" observation: If it is perfectly acceptable to someone like you that you are responsible for your earthly actions, why should your soul be excepted from this responsibility. You make decisions every day that affect your life (I shot someone, I helped someone, etc) in a practical sense, and those decisions are tied into moral decisions that are linked to your spiritual self. Whether or not you give that spiritual self credence.
I sense that you're going to argue until you're blue in the face that you want proof directly from God, and then, because you're not satisfied with any answers you get, you're going to say it's all a crock ... and use that faulty logic to base your theory that God doesn't exist.
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you remind me of that joke about the man stranded on the rooftop during a bad flood. "God," he prayed, "save me!"
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