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Requests to delete posts and threads...other LoveShack.org issues...
1. We have had a marked increase recently in the number of requests from members to delete or edit posts, many received long after the post(s) were made.
LoveShack.org does not have the staff to provide personal editors to the increasing number of persons who ask that their threads, posts be deleted or finely edited. Beyond that we have a strict policy of never, ever deleting threads in which the original post has replies. It simply isn't fair to the members who took the time to give the problem thought and submit their advice.
I would like some help here from the membership. Why would someone pick an anonymous username so they could not be identified and then post highly personal information that they ultimately become scared to death that others may discover? Why would they pick an "anonymous" username that is known to all their friends and family who apparently have nothing better to do than Google it twice a day?
The word from the owner of LoveShack.org is that moderators, including myself, are not permitted to delete any thread or post. We may make very minor changes but we simply haven't the time to go in a do extensive editing that should have been done by the original writer first time around.
2. I receive numerous requests for infractive justice from posters who were previously given infractions for a particular reason and see the same thing in another post. They are more concerned that someone else not get away with what they got an infraction for than the offensive post they are reporting.
We are all adults here. You should report offensive posts. However, to help you feel better about the world is NOT why we edit or remove offensive posts. Simply report them and we'll take care of the rest.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THE POSTS YOU ARE REPORTING! That subjects you to getting an infraction as well. There is no good reason to engage someone who is name calling, making attacks or otherwise violating guidelines. Please report offensive posts and go about your business without becoming involved in the violations.
3. There has been an increase in mean spirited postings that must stop. These forums are for members to give thoughtful, compassionate advice. There is no requirement that members like what another is doing. However, people do not come here for lectures. If another poster's described offline behavior goes against your grain, either be diplomatic in your protest or don't post. Lectures are demeaning. Those seeking advice already know there's a problem.
4. Off-topic postings and hijacked threads are epidemic. We are all courteous people. There is no good reason to hijack a thread to talk about somebody's avatar or what you had for lunch. There is also no reason to put out a joke about a serious matter, especially at the beginning of a thread. Please post about matters relating to the original post in a thread at all times. Before you post, take some time to think. There's no good reason to post something that will be soon taken down.
Keep in mind. Staying on topic is about replying to the original poster and NOT the post or posts just above your reply (that may very well be off topic). Fact is, 95 percent of posts past number 20 are usually off topic in most threads unless it is extremely intense.
Those are the biggies. Please use your best judgment when posting. Remember, people here are human and what you write to them can be very hurting and even damaging. There are diplomatic ways of saying almost anything that will easily be within site guidelines. (For instance, instead of telling someone to 'go to hell" in a caustic manner, write something like: "I very strongly suggest you retreat to a place where it's allegedly very hot and various deities cast people there on a permanent basis for their misdeeds." It just sounds nicer that way and may even lighten up a tense situation.) Attacks coming from somebody who doesn't even know them can have great weight for that reason. Be kind!
Thank you for your cooperation.
__________________
Tony
"It's been my policy to view the Internet not as an 'information highway,' but as an electronic asylum filled with babbling loonies." - Mike Royko, late columnist, Chicago Tribune
I would like some help here from the membership. Why would someone pick an anonymous username so they could not be identified and then post highly personal information that they ultimately become scared to death that others may discover? Why would they pick an "anonymous" username that is known to all their friends and family who apparently have nothing better to do than Google it twice a day?
Can we assume these are rhetorical questions, asked out of exasperation, or are you really thinking there may be an answer?
The only thing I can think of is that people are not drawing a distinction between "anonymity" and "privacy." Each of us is anonymous here to the degree that he or she protects that anonymity, and this is completely under our individual control. Our community forums are NOT private, in any sense of the word (in spite of discussions in the past where posters have felt like their "privacy was violated" when someone they know discovered their posts on LS...)
__________________ All that is now, All that is gone, All that's to come, and everything under the sun is in tune...
Can we assume these are rhetorical questions, asked out of exasperation, or are you really thinking there may be an answer?
The only thing I can think of is that people are not drawing a distinction between "anonymity" and "privacy." Each of us is anonymous here to the degree that he or she protects that anonymity, and this is completely under our individual control. Our community forums are NOT private, in any sense of the word (in spite of discussions in the past where posters have felt like their "privacy was violated" when someone they know discovered their posts on LS...)
In my opinion, if I was coming here to post very private information for the purpose of getting advice, ranting or whatever I would use a code name that would render little if anything on Google and that no relative or friend would ever know about. I would make certain personal information vague in my posts.
What I truly don't understand are the increasing number of people who ask that their posts be modified or deleted because the information they have presented can identify them and they're afraid friends or relatives will discover it. This forum is one of hundreds of thousands on the Internet. If I had relatives intent enough to go behind me and ferret out posts I put on message boards on a medium where there are hundreds of thousands of them, I would be surrounded by genetically and intellectually superior beings and very proud of that, I suppose.
What about if there was a self-destruct forum, where threads had a limited lifetime and then disappeared automatically? People starting threads and posting on them in that section would be aware ahead of time that they were impermanent.
I think the current system is perfect. Like I always say, it it ain't broke don't fix it. No one should be able to have their own threads/posts deleted. I mean that's just kind of silly. But it's fine if someone else does it for you. I mean I think that's how it works, right?
__________________
“There's no thrill in easy sailing when the skies are clear and blue, there's no joy in merely doing things which any one can do. But there is some satisfaction that is mighty sweet to take, when you reach a destination that you never thought you'd make”
But it's fine if someone else does it for you. I mean I think that's how it works, right?
Apparently,
I would even hazzard a guess that some do it as a hobby. Even to go so far as to send a little rude pm to let you know just before...then not even allow you to respond (privately) in order to resolve whatever the issue maybe.
Oh well. It is ashame to use such a great site as a sneaky game.
What about if there was a self-destruct forum, where threads had a limited lifetime and then disappeared automatically? People starting threads and posting on them in that section would be aware ahead of time that they were impermanent.
But I believe the problem is that some people aren't "aware" in the first place. Anyone who would think it useful to intentionally navigate to a self-destruct forum is already sufficiently aware of the implications of posting to protect themselves with a sufficient layer of anonymity in the normal forums.
I still agree with the generalized "no deletions" policy, though, mainly because once other posters have contributed to a thread, you would be deleting their contributions as well.
Another point to consider: some of your loveshack posts are not stored only on Loveshack. Search engines "cache" posts as well. You want an illustrative example of why, once you press "Submit", it's out there for good? Do this:
FIND ME:
---------
Imagine I mention to someone who knows me that I post on an internet chat board, and that they happen to know I use a screen name "Trimmer", say for my AOL or MSN, or somewhere else. How hard is it? In spite of Tony's assertion that you would have to be a "genetically and intellectually superior being", all you have to do is take a wild stab like this: Google <trimmer wife divorce> without the brackets, and lookie there, the second result that comes up is me, talking about privacy and thread deletion. But if I hadn't posted on that thread, it may well have been a post about my actual situation. You found me, and it wasn't that hard. If you had searched <Trimmer cheat wife>, my post would have come up first on the list.
BROWSE TO LOVESHACK AND CHECK ME OUT:
--------------------------------------------
Once you see loveshack.org and realize that "Trimmer" might be me, I'm exposed, my anonymity is blown. You know how to do the rest.
But then let's say I'm mortally embarrassed, and I somehow convinced Tony to delete my posts. Let's say all of them (which they probably can't even do anyway, but go with me here.) Or let's say one day you find that Loveshack is down or unaccessible for some reason....
FIND ME ELSEWHERE:
----------------------------------
Well, my nosy friend, you are just a little bit more clever than the average Googler, so you go back to Google, and search on this (everything within the brackets, but not the brackets themselves):
<Trimmer site:loveshack.org> (go try it for real!)
...and lots of hits pop up. "But," you say, "we already agreed that the loveshack.org server is somehow down..." Yes, but do you see, at the bottom of every result on the Google page, there is a link that says "Cached"? Pick any result (there appear to be about 50 pages of results with 10 links per page - The Trimmer Channel!) and click on the "cached" link.
Amazing! Those clever fellows at Google, Sergi and whats-his-name, have "cached" my posts on their servers, so even if Loveshack is down, or someone deletes my posts, THANK GOODNESS web searchers will still be able to access my accumulated wisdom.
And yours, too.
BOTTOM LINE #1:
------------------
Once you press Submit, it's out there.
BOTTOM LINE #2:
----------------
Even if Loveshack deleted your post(s), it's not that hard to find them cached on search engines.
So why does this not freak me out? Because unlike the scenario I proposed above, "Trimmer" is not a name that I use anywhere else in my life, on the internet or otherwise. It's a dumb word I pulled out of the air after seeing pubic hairs in the bathroom garbage can (there, I finally said it, although I'm not saying whether they were mine or someone else's...)
I don't mention to anyone (especially my ex or anyone associated with our situation) that I participate in online forums related to my personal life, and I am very careful not to post combinations of details about myself to be "searchable", like hobbies, career, hometown, current location, etc. On occasions where I might have posted one piece of information (I do like apple butter...), I am careful not to put multiple pieces of identifiable information into the same thread which might ber found if someone cleverly Googled something like
My insulation is anonymity, and it's completely under my control. No one knows I'm Trimmer, so they don't know to look for that. No one knows I post, so there's no reason for them to look, although if they did look, they still don't have a sufficient search profile to have any luck.
Members are able to wait indefinitely until they click on the POST button. I truly don't think a lot of people give thought to the fact that Google will crawl through every organ in your body and expose your toxins to the world. Learn that and how to post private information discretely with a well selected username and you've got it made!
Last edited by Tony; 31st December 2007 at 7:31 AM..
Ah yes Trimmer very well put. However, most peeps are not so intelligent. I for one can LMAO looking back at my ignorance on-line back in the beginning. After posting on a small community gaming site for well over a year I had a fellow gamer who hit me up one day on Messenger & told me I might hold back on my public postings & only post in the forums "secured members-only forums". I asked him what he meant by public postings. He then taught me the Gooogle search you talk about. I Googled up my user name & was shocked to see what I thought were my personal conversations between just my fellow clans members & myself. I was clueless to the whole Google,MSN, Ask bots that troll the public forums.
I'm sure a lot of the LS members are currently at the level of ignorance I was at during the beginning of my on-line adventures. So Tony, I think I answered your question as to why some peeps post personal info & then request it be taken down. Maybe another forum member educated them on just how public their postings can be.
And, I know it's in a sticky which I DID read as a new member but, as I always hear, "Who reads sticky's?"
1. We have had a marked increase recently in the number of requests from members to delete or edit posts, many received long after the post(s) were made.
LoveShack.org does not have the staff to provide personal editors to the increasing number of persons who ask that their threads, posts be deleted or finely edited. Beyond that we have a strict policy of never, ever deleting threads in which the original post has replies. It simply isn't fair to the members who took the time to give the problem thought and submit their advice.
I would like some help here from the membership. Why would someone pick an anonymous username so they could not be identified and then post highly personal information that they ultimately become scared to death that others may discover? Why would they pick an "anonymous" username that is known to all their friends and family who apparently have nothing better to do than Google it twice a day?
The word from the owner of LoveShack.org is that moderators, including myself, are not permitted to delete any thread or post. We may make very minor changes but we simply haven't the time to go in a do extensive editing that should have been done by the original writer first time around.
2. I receive numerous requests for infractive justice from posters who were previously given infractions for a particular reason and see the same thing in another post. They are more concerned that someone else not get away with what they got an infraction for than the offensive post they are reporting.
We are all adults here. You should report offensive posts. However, to help you feel better about the world is NOT why we edit or remove offensive posts. Simply report them and we'll take care of the rest.
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THE POSTS YOU ARE REPORTING! That subjects you to getting an infraction as well. There is no good reason to engage someone who is name calling, making attacks or otherwise violating guidelines. Please report offensive posts and go about your business without becoming involved in the violations.
3. There has been an increase in mean spirited postings that must stop. These forums are for members to give thoughtful, compassionate advice. There is no requirement that members like what another is doing. However, people do not come here for lectures. If another poster's described offline behavior goes against your grain, either be diplomatic in your protest or don't post. Lectures are demeaning. Those seeking advice already know there's a problem.
4. Off-topic postings and hijacked threads are epidemic. We are all courteous people. There is no good reason to hijack a thread to talk about somebody's avatar or what you had for lunch. There is also no reason to put out a joke about a serious matter, especially at the beginning of a thread. Please post about matters relating to the original post in a thread at all times. Before you post, take some time to think. There's no good reason to post something that will be soon taken down.
Keep in mind. Staying on topic is about replying to the original poster and NOT the post or posts just above your reply (that may very well be off topic). Fact is, 95 percent of posts past number 20 are usually off topic in most threads unless it is extremely intense.
Those are the biggies. Please use your best judgment when posting. Remember, people here are human and what you write to them can be very hurting and even damaging. There are diplomatic ways of saying almost anything that will easily be within site guidelines. (For instance, instead of telling someone to 'go to hell" in a caustic manner, write something like: "I very strongly suggest you retreat to a place where it's allegedly very hot and various deities cast people there on a permanent basis for their misdeeds." It just sounds nicer that way and may even lighten up a tense situation.) Attacks coming from somebody who doesn't even know them can have great weight for that reason. Be kind!
Thank you for your cooperation.
With all due respect, if members are unable to edit their own posts, they will continue to pm you requesting that you do it for them. I know I have clicked submit only to realize a moment later that I misphrased something or that it could be misinterpreted as offensive. I always read my posts a couple of times before I click submit, but we all make mistakes.
Yes, we have a long time to click submit, but why have such a short time-span where we are allowed to edit posts? I don't see the benefit to the board.
As for privacy, I completely agree with you. Simply by coming here we waive our right to privacy, to a certain degree. That's nobody's problem but our own.
As for infractions and pms and all of that, you already know how I feel so I won't repeat it. I consider myself a reasonable member of this board, and I try to do everything with good intentions. We have a pretty mature member-base here, why the need for such tight control?
__________________
I loved being single, but I finally found a girl worthy of a relationship. Wish me luck!
We have a pretty mature member-base here, why the need for such tight control?
We do?
Despite the "never delete threads" policy, a number of us who post on the OM / OW board have had threads deleted, and lots more have been locked because the "discussion" degenerated into mud slinging and name calling and the kind of stuff teachers don't tolerate in primary school playgrounds. Hence Tony's post - I honestly don't think he's a crypto-fascist, in fact sometimes mods don't intervene until the body count is compelling. It's our behaviour that forces the issue, not some lust for control.
Another tip guys - PMs are not always as "private" as you may think. I've had members forward me snippets of PM exchanges with other members, in good faith, but quite likely without that other member being aware that it was sent me. If you're sending private info in a PM, that you don't want to go further, you may want to state that explicityly - or understand that, as in real life, a "secret is something you only pass on to one person at a time". Be careful about what you reveal if you're worried about your anonymity being compromised.
I've seen things get kind of bitter in posts, threads get locked, the OP getting upset at reactions, saying things and then saying "I knew I shouldn't have said that." We're all human, and we're all going to give our opinions. If anyone here is uncertain if they want to reveal something.... DON'T!
If you have any fears of being discovered, be discreet, or don't post. It's common sense, and the fact that moderators are bothered over something so pety which could have been avoided by this common sense is a shame. Just think before you post and you won't be asking to have your thread deleted.
People who put up pictures of themselves, real names, actual situational names posted in threads, bad idea. Anonymous means just that.
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
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