I am trying really hard to see your POV here. Its honestly a struggle.
What I see is that you love your daughter, and that you want to prevent her from making the same mistakes her Step Sibs have. Honestly, if I were you, I would leave race out of it completely. I would also set ground rules and allow your stepdaughter to move in. Unless she glamourizes her situation, she could actually help you show your daughter the standard she should set in finding a mate.
Class and race are a not a good enough common denominator for broad spectrum statements.
I teach both my children that when they are ready to date they should find someone who is a good person. I do not care one bit what race, class, religion, or sex they are. I care only that my children find a good, caring human being to share their lives with.
My daughter knows the mantra. Be friends before you date. Never date someone that you can't be friends with.
As parents we all want to protect our children. I think perhaps the biggest struggle is in allowing them to be fully themselves while instilling morals that are not bankrupted by our own hate and preconcieved notions. To allow our children to form their own opinions, even if they are seperate from ours. I think its fine to challenge them to think about why they hold a certain opinion, I think its wrong to squash the opinion.
My babysitter thinks its fine for my seven year old to wear things that show her mid-drift. I don't. She is seven. She has no business showing off her body at such a young age. Even if its the "in" thing. My son on the other hand who is eight is a mowhawked, skater dude. He wears baggy clothes, sometimes paints his nails. My sitter was freaking out over his baggy pants, (they don't fall off at all). In her opinion it portrays a negative attitude. I asked her if his attitude had changed any at all. He is polite, helpful, opens doors, is (mostly) kind to his sister, and is a very respectful child. I suggested to her that she was the one with the negative attitude not him.
I sympathize with the feelings of a concerned mother but it seems to me that the origninal poster is confusing two issues. On the one hand she wants to teach her daughter good values which is admirable but on the other she doesn't seem to be able to separate race from values.
A young woman that is taught to look at the skin colour and not taught to spot 'quality' will soon find herself 6 months on with a suitcase standing barefoot at momma and papa's door before you can say 'blame it on the rap'. Sweeping generalizations are a waste of time.
Either way it seems she's fighting a losing battle, pop/rap culture, peer pressure, the desire to 'be like her older 'cooler' sibblings will probably take their toll regardless (and probably because of) how much the mother objects and more so if she presents a flawed argument of 'black man equals bad man' which any teenager will oppose on principle.
As many of the mothers in this thread have pointed out the key is not to take a blanket approach to dating and race but to cultivate in her child thinking ability, the ability to distinguish between a young man of character and intelligence and those that lack respect for women, authority and themselves.
If her eleven year old daughter is already buying into the guetto culture, and admiring those that have made bad choices in the past now, I doubts if, in a few years time, the daughter will turn up to dinner with a young Sidney Poiter instead of a Snoop doggy dog but using race as a baromiter for her choice in men will not help - hasn't she ever heard of Emenim?
I'm not sure but I think your post is asking for advice on how to prevent your step-daughter and family moving in with you and your husband and children? Is that right?
The reason being that you disagree with inter-racial relationships and think it would have a detrimental affect/influence on your 11 year old daughter's attitudes towards inter-racial dating/marriage? Is that right?
So basically you want advice on how to keep your step daughter out of your house based on your believes and principals.
I doubt anyone can really help you with this problem, because your husband has already expressed his opinion and is happy to welcome his daughter into his home at a time when she obviously needs help and support from her family. He sounds like a good man.
The only thing you can do is tell him how you feel and try to convince him to find another way of supporting his child. Maybe helping finance an apartment? Organising alternative accommodation with another family member? There aren't many options in this situation.
If he is persistent in his decision to help her in this way despite your obvious objection, you will have to thrash it out with him if you are adamant in opposing this situation. One of you will have to back down, or one of you will give an ultimatum. It won't be nice to challenge each other like that though and forcing someone to accept something they're not comfortable with is not kind.
In marriage you need to talk things through, comprimise and understand. When you married your husband didn't you consider his daughter's lifestyles as potentially negatively influential? You love your stepdaughter and the children so would you really be comfortable making such an issue of this? You made your decision irrespective of future repercussions. Maybe your mother should have opposed your marriage to protect you from joining a family of mixed race? It would have saved you the grief of your present worries wouldn't it? Maybe you should have remained a single mother bringing up your children alone? Or didn't that option appeal to you? If you didn't want your daughter exposed to other cultures, maybe you shouldn't have married a man with mixed race grandchildren? But you married him because presumably at the time you loved him enough to accept his family. Maybe you should continue to do so, they are your family now.
Think about you and your girls too - if one of them needed help in the future for a different reason and your husband wasn't comfortable with an aspect of their situation, would you be happy if he refused to help them? How would you feel if you had to tell your daughter she wasn't welcome in your home when she needed you most?
I could understand your concern more if you didn't like your step-daughter, but your objections seem harsh and a little selfish.
It's just my opinion but if you really wanted to get through this difficult scenario maybe some deeper understanding and education would be beneficial for you. If you are against inter-racial relationships that is your perogative, but as your beliefs are now creating a problem in your life, I think you should explore the subject more, so that you can make an informed decision on this matter.
If you put some time into educating yourself about inter-racial marriage, you might change your opion and avoid further torment. I appreciate that inter-racial unions bring with them additional issues to contend with and as we all know marriage aint always a bunch of roses. That doesn't mean that they cannot work though, it's not the cultures that are necessarily the problem, but the ignorance and indifference of both those entering into them and their loved ones. The differences in the cultures and races need the respect they deserve, then if they choose to come together in love they will be hopefully equipped to master the assault course we call life.
I'm sad you are so un-informed and frankly so ignorant that you are against your daughter enjoying the wealth of experiences found in mixing with people from other cultures and races. She will make her own mistakes, she will take her own risks. It's natural to be scared for her, worried that her immaturity will be an obstacle in making sensible decisions and choices. With age, comes wisdom, with experience you will see things she is blind to, but that doesn't entitle you to manipulate and control her through her adolescence. Love her, support her, and realise that it may not be black men you have to worry about, but a perfectly acceptable middle class white guy who meets your criteria as marrying material. White men aren't angels you know, who knows what her future holds? It's the soul of a person that is important, in any race or creed. Be a good mother and let her find her own way, while you love for her is unconditional and eternal.
I do not understand why people are prejudice! You say you're openminded? People that are openminded aren't prejudice.
Why do people rant and rave about differences among the amount of melanon in the skin?
Look at it like this, some carrots are lighter than others, some are really dark orange, some are light, some are almost see through. It's the amount of carrotine in the carrot. WE EAT THEM ALL! Don't we??
Come on woman. There is nothing more stupid in this world than prejudice people! You shouldn't worry about the color of a mans skin. You should worry about if they're going to be happy. Rap music she listens to? OMG CALL THE FREGGIN POLICE! Has she been wearing white T shirts? Skin tight pants? A fitted hat? OMG She has the sickness! 911!
I don't understand your concerns!
What year is this? 2004 right? OK well, face the truth, not your truth, the worlds truth....OMG could it be that people are starting to be "color blind"? Do darker skinned people have feelings too? OMG! Are you worried that your grand kids wont fit in at school? Because theyre "half and half" LOL. You said your daughter (which I assume is that of light, milky skin) has all "black" girl friends? Does she fit in? And WTH is up with this white black *****? do you know the difference? You know, the difference between white and black...HAVE YOU EVER SEEN SOMEONE WITH PAPER WHITE SKIN OR BLACK AS A CAT SKIN? HAHA
Take the skin off. What's underneath? The same exact organs, the same color of blood.
maybe you should research why people started to form different types of skin and different types of eyes. They either evolved that way because of the living conditions of their continent. Or if you're christian, GOD made us all the way we are. And if you are, don't use the christian quote of "marry your own kind" against me. Because if you were really openminded as you say you have been in the past, you would know it has NOTHING to do with color, but religion. I am christian by the way.
Look it up woman Because soon enough, there wont be any more prejudice people because the world will be full of people with the same skin color!
If you want to teach your kids right, teach them that color has nothing to do with ANYTHING. COLOR is just the way that light reflects off of an object and melanin in the skin. Teach them to be open minded.
I'm in an "interracial relationship" and I pitty those who look down on us because all type of people can do is look and stare at us. Think how wrong it is. When in all reality, didn't God make EVERY SINGLE LIVING MAN in his immage?
Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 30th August 2004 at 9:52 PM..
Reason: removed inappropriate comments
Enough with the hand holding lovey dovey feely crap. Hokey is the only one on here making sense.
This woman does NOT want her daughter dating any of the black men in the area, given the history that they are deadbeat dads to her stepchildren's kids. Perhaps she lives in an area where it's considered "cool" to date some ghetto gangsta type that demeans women and runs around sticking it into anything that moves. PERHAPS it's black men who perpetuate the stereotype-if she lived somewhere else she could very well say she didn't want her daughter dating a honky ass redneck with a raccoon tail on the antenna of his dorkmobile who gets drunk and slaps his woman around.
These are her views. She is concerned that her daughter may try to emulate the behaviour of her stepdaughters which she feels is inappropriate. She is worried her daughter may try and emulate the behaviours that are glamourized by black rappers on T.V. She doesn't want her daughter involved in that. No one is without prejudice, and these are hers.
So, lets all stop slamming her and help her deal with this.
My suggestion is to have a sit down talk with your husband and pour your fears out to him, WITHOUT criticizing his children in any way. As soon as she starts to menstruate, put her on birth control.
the good thing in this situation is that kids make up their own minds, and she will make up hers based on what makes her comfortable and what influences make the most sense to her.
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wanton ignorance is the only true evil
quote:
"if she lived somewhere else she could very well say she didn't want her daughter dating a honky ass redneck with a raccoon tail on the antenna of his dorkmobile who gets drunk and slaps his woman around"
That sounds like the typical male loser in my area that my mother warned me about. I was smart enough as a teenager that I listened to my mom's very sound advice, and gangly enough that those backwood Casanovas were not knocking at my door. I knew girls that ended up with men like that.
I agree that trying to prevent the girl from eventually dating black men who act like romeo thugs may backfire--tell some teenager not to do something and they probably will do it deliberately. It might be better to show the girl that there are both good and responsible men, black, white, hispanic, or any race, that don't run around with a bunch of women and have children they don't support. Be sensible and when she matures, get her on birth control and tell her to make any guys she is ever with use condoms.
Update......Thanks for all your responses. I have accepted the bashing of my prejudices because of course everyone is entitled to thiers. Let me give a little background....the color of the skin is only a fraction of my concern, based solely on the examples of the black men my daughter has been exposed to through her step sisters. They have hung out with the "wrong" crowd and they just happen to have black skin. She has plenty of exposure to all races, and yes she has friends who are black, white, hispanic and her closes friend is mixed.(Her father is black and her mother is hispanic.) One of my very closest friends is black. My other very close friend is gay and is a female impersonator. I married a man with two grandchild who are mixed. Please layoff my prejudices, i am proud to have brought my daughter up to be loving and caring regardless of race, skin color, sexual prefrence etc...
My concern, as i went about it wrong in my opening post, is having my daughter end up believing and glamorizing her older step-sisters choices of men and lifestyle by having her move in with us for a period of time. My stepdaughers lifestyle is centered around "thug" mentality. She is a beautiful 21 year old with an adorable 2 year old boy who has had her self image and esteem destroyed by the "black" boyfriend and his family and friends. Shame on me to generalize. She doesn't care for herself or her child in a way she should. (my opinion of course but her father agrees)
She is lost within her own life and doesn't know the way out. She is a mother now and has never grasp the responsiblity that goes along with being a mother. All bad examples for my 11 year old.
The horrible man (who cares what color at this point) has threatened her to a point she feels the only way out is to run. And she's running right to her father and our family which i suppose she should. Her mother shunned her at 18 because of her choices. (nice mother) Which is why she is running in our direction because we have opened our arms, home and heart to help her.
What i see happening with my own daughter She has developed already and began having periods over the summer. She is most concentrated on her apprearance. I keep a tight grip on what styles she is wearing and what music she is listening too. She is showing some signs of pushing me away and most of the time it comes after she has spent a substantial amount of time with her step-sister. Thus my concern about her moving in.
I've backed off the "black" issue as some of you have suggested and even tried to correct it by talking to her and telling her i was wrong to discourage her from dating a "black" boy. I simply wanted to discourage her from dating someone who will not repect her and confused the skin color issue because of her step sisters situation. She rolled her eyes at me.
The biggest problem I see now is the developed connection between her step sisters boyfriend being a loser and the fact he is black. You see the step daughter has always accused, "we don't like him" AS "we don't like him because he's black". It has been an argument since the beginning of her relationship. I think my daughter has adopted the same principal for our dislike and i'm not sure how to undo it. For example - if i do not allow her to buy a CD because i feel the contents are inappropriate, she says it's because the singer is black. She does not see that the other CD i allowed her to buy, the singer was also black, but the music was more acceptable. She dosn't like the fact i will not allow her to post pictures of certain "rap" artist because their black, not because they have inapproprate language and contents in their music and tatoos all over them looking like a thug.
I appriciate the input, it helps. I am far from this being over......The step daughter in moving in, in about 3 weeks. I can't shut her out it's not in me.
Update......Thanks for all your responses. I have accepted the bashing of my prejudices because of course everyone is entitled to theirs. Let me give a little background....the color of the skin is only a fraction of my concern, based solely on the examples of the black men my daughter has been exposed to through her step sisters. They have hung out with the "wrong" crowd and they just happen to have black skin. She has plenty of exposure to all races, and yes she has friends who are black, white, Hispanic and her closes friend is mixed.(Her father is black and her mother is Hispanic.) One of my very closest friends is black. My other very close friend is gay and is a female impersonator. I married a man with two grandchild who are mixed. Please layoff my prejudices, i am proud to have brought my daughter up to be loving and caring regardless of race, skin color, sexual preference etc...
My concern, as i went about it wrong in my opening post, is having my daughter end up believing and glamorizing her older step-sisters choices of men and lifestyle by having her move in with us for a period of time. My stepdaughters lifestyle is centered around "thug" mentality. She is a beautiful 21 year old with an adorable 2 year old boy who has had her self image and esteem destroyed by the "black" boyfriend and his family and friends. Shame on me to generalize. She doesn't care for herself or her child in a way she should. (my opinion of course but her father agrees)
She is lost within her own life and doesn't know the way out. She is a mother now and has never grasp the responsibility that goes along with being a mother. All bad examples for my 11 year old.
The horrible man (who cares what color at this point) has threatened her to a point she feels the only way out is to run. And she's running right to her father and our family which i suppose she should. Her mother shunned her at 18 because of her choices. (nice mother) Which is why she is running in our direction because we have opened our arms, home and heart to help her.
What i see happening with my own daughter She has developed already and began having periods over the summer. She is most concentrated on her appearance. I keep a tight grip on what styles she is wearing and what music she is listening too. She is showing some signs of pushing me away and most of the time it comes after she has spent a substantial amount of time with her step-sister. Thus my concern about her moving in.
I've backed off the "black" issue as some of you have suggested and even tried to correct it by talking to her and telling her i was wrong to discourage her from dating a "black" boy. I simply wanted to discourage her from dating someone who will not respect her and confused the skin color issue because of her step sisters situation. She rolled her eyes at me.
The biggest problem I see now is the developed connection between her step sisters boyfriend being a loser and the fact he is black. You see the step daughter has always accused, "we don't like him" AS "we don't like him because he's black". It has been an argument since the beginning of her relationship. I think my daughter has adopted the same principal for our dislike and i'm not sure how to undo it. For example - if i do not allow her to buy a CD because i feel the contents are inappropriate, she says it's because the singer is black. She does not see that the other CD i allowed her to buy, the singer was also black, but the music was more acceptable. She dosn't like the fact i will not allow her to post pictures of certain "rap" artist because their black, not because they have inappropriate language and contents in their music and tattoos all over them looking like a thug.
I appreciate the input, it helps. I am far from this being over......The step daughter in moving in, in about 3 weeks. I can't shut her out it's not in me.
Boy, this is a tough situation for you. I think it's important for you to treat your step daughter as one of your own coming back to the fold after a huge mistake. Love her with all your heart. She's probably feeling like 1 inch tall after all she's been through. I'm sure that you realize this, but I just had to point it out. Some parents would treat this differently and would treat her like an outcast. They would degrade her and take advantage of her mis fortune. Make her feel she's entitled to whatever your flesh and blood daughter is entitled to. A lot of parents would rub it in, "I told you so", "You screwed up", "He's a loser", "What a dead beat", avoid these at all costs! Not only for your step-daughter's sake, but for her child, and for your daughter.
I hope you don't think that I'm telling you what and how you should do things, and I really hope you understand that when a unloaded on you, it was a misunderstanding. I truly wish the very best for you and all of your family. Good Luck!!
Moose
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"The conscience water saw it's maker, and blushed" - Water to Wine......
You may be set up to have a great opportunity to help both your step daughter and your own child.
Make sure you establish your ground rules before hand. Make sure its your husband that presents them. I would make one of the rules that she needs to get therapy. I may be mistaken, but I got the impression that your step daughter has been abused. At least emotionally. Help her with this. Please. Its a cycle she won't break out of without help.
Your daughter seems to have had her hands full this summer. Getting your period is not easy. (as I am sure you remember) and the younger you are the harder it is to cope with. Are the CDs she wants labled "Parental Advisory?" We joke that all the lable does is show kids which music to listen to....but you could use it to your advantage. Make that the rule. If it says Parental Advisory, she isn't allowed to listen to it. Any of it. Whatever the artist is.
I believe love can change anything.
Dyer. Its not a sellers market. Its the type of relationship we have. She knows who the mama is and who pays her bills. She is not disrespectful about it, its simply her opinion. She and her family have been very good to us since we moved here, she went to court with us, babysat me after my surgeries, and has provided a stable environment for my children to settle down in. Sometimes we agree. Sometimes we don't. But she is part of my extended family, and she knows ultimately my choices stand.
Put her on birth control. Tell your husband you do not want the step daughter living with you. Be honest. If she starts to REALLY misbehave, send her away to school. Keep the negative influence away from her. Rent school of rock and show here that there is more to music than X tina and looking like a ho.
Don't talk colour again. Now she knows you're sensitive about being called a racist-she'll use it to manipulate you. Children going through puberty are evil, and cannot see themselves for how they are truly acting.
Go out, and buy some Otis Redding CD's. Bessie Smith. Parliment. Stevie Wonder. Show her what black music can be, and show her the trash popular music is trying to turn it into.
I think that you should find a few of her talents, show her how she can use them in life. Encourage her to do so, she might just take up a hobby and it might broaden her world instead of just "thugs" make her look forward.
Show her what she can be, don't just put her on the pill. If she's going to have sex, put her on it. Form a relationship with her so that you guys can talk openly and freely about sex when you start to notice sexual acts might be occuring. As friends, not as mother to daughter. It works a lot better that way. Just throwing the pill at her will not pressure her into haveing sex but it will say to her, "i can't get preg" without putting on a condom.
Show her that you aren't prejudice, get some music that she's into, ask her to teach you how to dance to it. Start talking to her one day soon, show her that a lot of the "thugs" are fake and YOU don't like them because they don't know what ghetto really is(show her pics of South America). She will back away from the thug type soon enough.
As for the "interracial" aspect of it all. I think that it would matter to you more if she was happy. Not what color the man is.
You should have an older sister tude and outlook while still maintaining the dominance of a mother.
As for my earlier post, I appologize. I am very much against prejudice, I see now that you aren't that way, just a protective, loving, concerned mother. I went off on a tangent. I am very sorry.
Wrong. BC also can help with menstrual cramps. It's smart prevantative medicine. It's not giving her permission to be sexually active-but allowing her to protect herself from unwanted pregnancy down the road.
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
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