[dudesomewhere]

I'd buy you one of those more practical candy rings...you could enjoy it while you wear it, the sugar in it provides energy to get you through the day.

And if you're not satisfied with that, I'd get you one of those spider rings from halloween, now you can't top those. Well, maybe a skull ring but that's it!

[jmargel]

Ok.. now in this day of age, if the tables were turned, where it was the woman who bought the ring and proposed.. And what if the guy were to say 'I want this kinda ring and expect it at this certain time or your history'. What would everyone say to that?

What if the guy were to say 'I am worth that amount in diamonds and I want it to be romantic because I have this stupid notion in my head that if the diamond is big then the more romantic and more special it would be'. I can guarantee all you women would be on this thread posting how it is SO wrong, etc..

For the thread starter, it sounds like he's under alot of fiancial pressure. Why are you pressuring him more about a certain ring? My god.. If all he could afford is a fake diamond, then why not just except that? What is really important here? The engagement/marriage or the ring? A ring isn't a reward for you being with him, or that you are going to spend the rest of your life with him. It's a symbol. It just so happens that this 'symbol' is a diamond, the most expensive stones around. Why not just tell him to give you a fake diamond, and when life & money permits him, he can buy you a real one if he chooses too.

Personally to me women who think that they are 'owed' a diamond for an engagement is being extremely selfish. It's about the person you are with, and wanting what you have. Not what you don't have. Engagments shouldn't be about material possessions. Money can't buy happiness or romance.

[katie79]

Wow, you seem very knowledgable about diamonds, cz, and moissanites. Could you tell me, what is a "synthetic diamond". WHat do you mean by, "they can make diamonds in a labortory now?'' Does this mean they are "real" diamonds that sell for the same price as natural ones? Or are these lab created diamonds called moissanite? I thought moissanite was a natural stone? Do you have any recent knowledge on cz's? Are they bad? I heard they are hard stones (8.5 and diamond is 10). Are they plastic? A jeweler told me they weren't plastic. I'm really confused, could you tell me the differences? You seem very educated in this matter.

[katie79]

Quote from JMARGEL:
"My god.. If all he could afford is a fake diamond, then why not just except that? What is really important here? The engagement/marriage or the ring? A ring isn't a reward for you being with him, or that you are going to spend the rest of your life with him. It's a symbol. It just so happens that this 'symbol' is a diamond, the most expensive stones around. Why not just tell him to give you a fake diamond, and when life & money permits him, he can buy you a real one if he chooses too."

I have to agree with you. My bf works hard, he doesn't have a great deal money b/c he's paying for school and stuff. Yes, he's 30, but to be honest, I would rather he put 3 months salary towards a wedding and a pleace for us to live. The ring he got me was from a diamond store, it was platinum and 18Kgold, which is very expensive. I just picked it out and fell in love with it. The jeweler told us it was a cz, but I didn't care, the stone was high quality (they said) and I loved it! It was just a little under $600 (on sale), which I think is a reasonable price. JMARGEL=as a man, do you think this is bad that he is getting me a cz? He feels bad about it, but I told him I don't care, which I don't. To be honest, I think cz's are beautiful stones too! They are shiny and flawless and almost as hard. In my book, if it looks and wears like a diamond, why spend the few thousand on a real one when you can have the same for a fraction of the price? I know he feels like "less of a man", and I hope he doesn't think less of me for accepting this. However, we both decided only "we" would know about this. Am I the only girl who wouldn't care? AM I alone on this matter? I feel that I am for some reason. It's just I'd rather have a nice sized stone, like a karat/karat-in-a-half instead of a real diamond that looks like a dot that had many flaws. Tell me, is this bad that I told my bf I don't care? Yes, I believe a ring should symbolize commitment, but at the same time, I don't want to drowned him in debt for a stupid diamond. I'm giving this girl advice on a alternative, and I just don't want to give her the wrong advice? What do you think of this from a guy's point of view?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by katie79
Could you tell me, what is a "synthetic diamond". WHat do you mean by, "they can make diamonds in a labortory now?''

A diamond is an allotrope of carbon, like graphite (pencil lead). It's created naturally underground, after the carbon is under heat and pressure, and in order to become jewelry, people (usually slaves) have to work in dangerous conditions to mine them out. However, because we know the properties of diamonds, we can create diamonds in a laboratory by simulating the proccess of what nature does in millions of years. Basically, the process of creating diamonds still takes a long time, and rarely yield large stones. Most synthetic diamonds are used industrially, and not for jewelry. For example, record needles are often made of synthetic diamond.

A synthetic diamond is a diamond that was produced in a laboratory, not an imitation diamond.

Does this mean they are "real" diamonds that sell for the same price as natural ones?

Scientifically, they are "real" diamonds. However, they've been stigmatized as "less-than" diamonds, because they weren't created by nature like natural diamonds. Some companies, who can create diamonds in a lab, are trying to overcome this stigma. Other companies, like DeBeers, are trying to push the fallacy that synthetic diamonds are fake, and a girl deserves better. Sadly, DeBeers has such a monopoly on the Diamond industry that these small companies have a difficult time overcoming this opposition.

Theoretically, diamonds aren't that rare at all. DeBeers just has such a strong monopoly on the diamond trade that they're able to keep prices insanely high. Since they don't have a monopoly on synthetic diamonds, synthetic diamonds sell for less than natural ones. I haven't read market research in the last 6 months, but I'm pretty sure the number is 25-30% less per carat than natural diamonds.

Or are these lab created diamonds called moissanite? I thought moissanite was a natural stone?

A moissanite stone is not a diamond. Dr. Moissan (I'm almost positive) discovered this mineral on an ancient meteor in Arizona well over 100 years ago. While this is a natural stone, it exists in extremely small quantitites--I don't think it's ever been isolated naturally outside of that one meteor.

The use of moissanite in jewelry is fairly recent, I'd say within the last ten years. Recently they've figured out a way to create large moissonite crystals, which when properly cut, are ideal for jewelry. A natural moissanite jewel is unheard of, I think it's safe to say that 100% of moissanite jewelry is synthetic moissanite.

Do you have any recent knowledge on cz's?

CZ (which I've also heard called Fianite) replaced rhinestone and cut glass as the diamond imitation of choice. This is also extremely rare in nature, so CZ jewelry is synthetic as well. They have a higher dispersion, which means that they often look "flashier". CZ also weighs more. Because they are made synthetically, they are virtually flawless, and are usually made to be completely colorless. However, they're often poorly-cut, having rounded facets, and a microscope can tell the difference. The simplest test to determine the difference between CZ and diamond is to apply a thermal probe to it. A CZ is a thermal insulator, while a diamond conducts heat extremely well (better than copper).

Are they bad?

That's completely subjective. I would think buying a "natural" diamond that was financed by a bloodthirsty syndicate of murderous slave-drivers would be 'bad', but a majority of women disagree with me. CZ's are inferior to diamonds, yes.

I heard they are hard stones (8.5 and diamond is 10).

Your numbers are right, but it's a stretch to call them 'almost as hard'. Cubic Zirconia is an 8.5 on the "Mohs Scale", and diamonds are a 10. However, the Mohs scale is a curve, not a line. So the difference between a 5 and a 6 is ten times more than the difference between a 4 and a 5. Cubic Zirconia, with a Mohs hardness of 8.5, is on the softer side of jewelry. CZ's often have a lower lustre, and because of their hardness, they are prone to surface scratches. For a comparison, Topaz is an 8, Rubies and Sapphires are 9's, Moissanite is a 9.25, and diamond is a 10.

Are they plastic? A jeweler told me they weren't plastic.

No, they're definitely not plastic, and as far as I know, no one uses plastic as diamond imitation.

[katie79]

oh. wow! you know a great deal about gemstones! Perhaps you should go into that field, unless you already are. if the cz stone does scratch or discolor in my e-ring, which is "tension set", would it be a pain in the but to put in a new stone in a few years (cz or not)? Is that bad for the actual setting or ring? thanks, you've been most helpful!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by katie79
if the cz stone does scratch or discolor in my e-ring, which is "tension set", would it be a pain in the but to put in a new stone in a few years (cz or not)?

The tension setting is beautiful, and I don't think that it's more prone to scratching than the bezel or the claw set. Putting in a new stone isn't something you should do yourself, you should let a jeweler do it.

Is that bad for the actual setting or ring?

No, if the jeweler is a trained professional, he or she should be able to reset a stone without damaging either the stone or the setting. If it is damaged, I don't see why the jeweler wouldn't be liable to replace it.

[katie79]

Okay, thanks! You were very helpful! Good luck to you! As for the lady who posted this thread in the first place, I think from the comments I recieved so far, perhaps a simulated diamond (fake diamond) would be best for the time being. Or you could go to a jeweler and they can sell you a small diamond ring for like $200-300. My best guess is to go with a cz (for size purposes) and not tell a soul it's fake---that's something b/t you and your bf. Look at it this way, maybe in a few years or so, he can get you a real diamond for a special holiday. No one will know a difference--unless you tell them! Tell your fiancee to be you don't mind a cz as a sub for a diamond.