Things will take time.....whether you live happily ever after or you end up divorcing. And I agree you should not push your wife hard in that direction yet.
HOWEVER, you must push your wife hard to end the affair NOW !!! See the difference ?
I don't think he wants to push his wife on anything at the moment. Therefore, the only option I can see is to go NC on her whilst she has her space. Don't see her and let her miss him.
Things will take time.....whether you live happily ever after or you end up divorcing. And I agree you should not push your wife hard in that direction yet.
HOWEVER, you must push your wife hard to end the affair NOW !!! See the difference ?
I do see what you mean and I believe that she is trying to end things (comes from her friend); maybe I need to push her a bit harder over this to make her a bit stronger when it comes to instigating NC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 65tr6
Nope. Dating is fine. But you need her to move back in first, right ?
This is what I'm not sure of also. She's only a few miles away at her parents' so on one hand we can (and have) spend a bit of time together at the weekends and have gone out a few times during the week. This obviously feels like we've regressed about 9 years in our relationship but it does feel like we're spending some good, enjoyable time together (which we hadn't been doing for a while) and at the same time don't have to see each other 24/7 being miserable and confused and going over old ground again & again.
On the other hand, I know that at some point she needs to move back in for us to really give things a go. Until she does that am I being stupid in seeing her at all?
I had thought that by seeing each other every now & again we were at least starting to sow the seeds of our friendship and relationship again. I don't know and really appreciate all your opinions. I've got so many of these stupid questions in my head and it is really helping to be able to get such good advice and support on here. Thankyou.
even if she gets over it and you stay with her, she will have fond memories of another man she fell for while with you....you willing to put up with it, and settle for that?
I know that when put like that I seem like a fool for wanting to be with her. But I married her because I love her, she's a wonderful person, will make a wonderful mother, loved me deeply and we had all our hopes and dreams for the future together.
Am I willing to settle for that? I suppose yes I am. Damaged goods some might say, but if I spend my whole life jumping out of relationships because they're not perfect then I'll probably end up sad & lonely with a string of perfectly good (but not perfect) relationships behind me. Hopefully my wife will realise that too in the long term.
I know exactly what you are going through. All started in January 09 after signing up for High School Alumni web site with ex boyfirend. Our situations are exact except my wifes douch bag is over 2200 miles away and she is still home. Everything else is the same. I dont want to push her as well because the last ultimatium I gave did not go so well. I actually contacted douch bag and we had an agreement to have NC but my wife dug in her heals and pursued and here we are several months later. She told me all the same things your wife told me, i need space, i dont love you, i hate you , i cant stand you, etc, etc, etc. But then on occasion she will be sweet at pie and say you are so good to me, i am a mess and thanks for putting up with me. We have been married 18 years and have three boys who would be devistated if we split especially after they find outthere mom left us for someone else. A little history: douch bag is 40 years old and has six kids by three differant women and has never been even close to being married. He was with my wife one time 20 years ago and after getting what he wanted left her high abd dry for someone else. I can not believe she is even talking to this clown again.
I am an emotional wreck but have grown stronger as time goes on but I committed to her 18n years ago and am going to stand still until she makes up her mind and hopefully I will still care for her as deeply as I do now. BTW we were in marriage counceling but with her not wanting to try it was a waste of time. We even went to individual counceling which was a life saner for me. I found out that my wife asked douch bag if she divorced me would they get together (paraphrasing) he told her no in so many words. I got this info second hand so i really dont know what was said but the point is he would not be there for her. So she is still here months later. I always held my wife up in high esteem and am crushed and furiouse that she could be so weak in the mind. She refuses to initiate NC and the Lord has not placed on my heart to contact him again yet. It is taking every ounce of self restraint not to take a plane and confront him. Especially after I intercepted some inappropriate pics he sent of himself to my wife. I was furiouse!!!! and tempted to post them all over the net. Still thinking about it actually.
Counceling really helps as well. If nothing else to vent to someone who will listen to you. It has helped me greatly to deal with this mess for the last 10 months. I told you my situation to say this, these guys are trash as is anyone who deliberately pursues a married person. Hold on and do not let go of the women you committed to and love. I keep telling myself daily that its only a test that will be over real soon. Once the rebuilding of our marriages begins, we will be more on love with our spouses and will be able to withstand anything the devil throws our way. God Bless and hold on to whats important my brother.........
You said in the OP that you have busy jobs, don't spend enough quality time..... And then you say you seem to understand why she is at her mom's house. Let me guess she is a victim (child) of divorce???? You have not mentioned talking to her mother about this, which I can understand, but that says you have no relationship with her family and the fact she seems to be siding with her daughter in keeping you two apart.
You also say you've talked to her friend and she wants to break it off with this other guy, but she can't.... Again a cheap excuse.....
#1 you tell her to get home or it is over. This has gone on long enough. You have jobs/careers and should be together at the end of the day, plain and simple.
Right now the longer she is away, the higher the probability that your marriage is over.
Get her home, set up counseling and quit whistling in the wind.
Sorry about yet another post, like I said, I've got so many things buzzing round my head at the moment. I wanted your opinions on this...
We've talked about MC a few times. Initially I said I didn't think we'd get much out of it until my wife knew whether she wanted to commit to giving things a go. I imagined the first question would be "do you want to work to save your marriage" and my wife would say "I don't know".
I think now we're getting to the point where she's taking that step so I mentioned about looking at getting MC. She replied by saying "I think it would set us back" and "do you really think it helps being labeled and lectued as if all people's circumstances are the same"
I said that although it was true that MCs could never fully understand all the details in each case, they could help explore some common problems which occur in these situations and give us some ways to move forwards. I'm not sure if my wife has gone off the idea because:
1. She thinks we'd be able to sort things on our own
2. She doesn't actually want to sort things out at all
3. She doesn't want to have to talk about what has happened and admit that she's done something awful and hurtful. I'm thinking that maybe the thought of having to talk about it is taking some of the glean off the EA.
Can anyone give me some idea of what I/we should expect from MC. We've already talked a lot together about what was wrong with our relationship and what we could try to do differently in the future.
I guess I'd love to have someone tell my wife that the grass really isn't greener on the other side and that she should work at her current marriage - but I think I'm being unrealistic!
You have not mentioned talking to her mother about this, which I can understand, but that says you have no relationship with her family and the fact she seems to be siding with her daughter in keeping you two apart.
That's not really true but is my fault for being sketchy on details.
My wife has a large family who all live in the area. Her brothers-in-law are some of my closest friends, the nieces & nephews all look at me as their uncle and I love them all very much. I get on well with her parents and always have done.
I have spoken to her mother about this (she knows all the details of the affair). She is really shocked by this because we were the couple that nobody ever worried about, always getting on, never arguing etc. She wants us to sort our marriage out and believes we can. She also doesn't want to push my wife into anything as she's worried that if she is seen to be siding with me, it would only strengthen the bond between my wife and the OM.
Obviously her loyalty lies with her daughter but she isn't supporting her actions in this affair. In the long term she is worried that my wife would be hurt by this OM once she realises that he's not the perfect person she currently makes him out to be.
Her mother and I talk a few times a week and she thinks my wife is starting to clear her head and sort herself out a bit. Her mother knows that we need to make a go of things and she needs to be back with me to do that, but does understand why my wife has moved out for the present and obviously isn't going to chuck her daughter out of her house.
I'm not sure there's much else I can ask her mother to do really. She's not going to betray her own daughter but I know that what she wants in the long term is her and I back together.
I enjoy helping others through the pain of infidelity. Here are my personal ten points I like to impart to those going through this nightmare. These are just my opinions and others will have their own. I hope they make you feel better and give you a different perspective.
1.) Though it feels as if you are in more pain than anyone has ever been because of infidelity, you are hurting no worse than anyone else has and is hurting over it. When we hurt real bad, it's as if inside us we believe that our pain is special, and that we are hurting more than anyone ever could over this because we loved our spouse more than a normal person does. No one could be hurting as bad as *I* am hurting. This is simply false and you are not alone. Thousands upon thousands of betrayed spouses hurt exactly the same as you are with as much excruciating pain. Can't eat, can't sleep, breaking down in tears, even at work. Remember, this pain is absolutely normal, and you are not having some ultra-normal devastation. It helps to know that everyone that goes through this nightmare feels just the same as you, you are completely normal
2.} Just as all betrayed humans find out eventually, YOU WILL HAVE a happy life again in the future. Yep, that's right, even though it doesn't feel like it right now, and seems impossible, you will get up someday and actually smile and feel good about life again and look forward to your day, it's as sure as the sun will rise, nothing can stop the progression of time, nothing can stop you from healing and the pain beginning to die, it happens to all of us, and the people that have been through it, seeing you from their perspective, know for absolute sure that your pain will begin to fade. In ten years from now you will say to yourself, "I probably wouldn't change a single thing that happened" because it led you down a new life path. When one door closes, another opens. Be secure in the knowledge that this pain will eventually die and you will be happy again.
3.) During these horrible times, you absolutely HAVE to take care of yourself and eat well, try to sleep as normally as you can. Go see your doctor and tell him what's going on. Human beings are naturally empathetic, and who hasn't had their heart broken before? Your doctor will prescribe you with sleep and anti depression medication if he feels it will help you, so don't hold this in. That's why your doctor is there for goodness sakes. You won't be the firts or last person to come to them with emotional devastation.
4.) Out the affair to the other spouse who is being cheated on. Affairs thrive in secrecy, it's a fantasy land, that's why it's so exciting and feels like teenage love again. Your spouse doesn't have to see the new persons dirty underwear on the bathroom floor, or hear them using the bathroom, or smell their body reek after they mow the lawn. The affair partner is put on a pedestal. They don't have to live up to your standards because they don't have to live with your spouse. They can be the night in shining armor or the sweet princess while your spouse sees you as the boring mate who had gas in the middle of the night in bed. When you out the affair to friends and family, it loses it's shine and becomes an embarrassment to your spouse. The little fairy tale is now gone, and now it's a seedy affair, ruins that fantasy real quick. Telling the other betrayed spouse is very important because you would want to be told yourself, right? Can you imagine keeping this vital information from a married person? It's a terrible thing to do and you rob them of the opportunity to make proper decisions in their life based on the truth of what's happening to them. It's the same as lying. When you lie (and this is what your cheating spouse was doing to you), you prohibit the other betrayed spouse from making judgments based on truthful reality. That's a terrible thing to do to someone. If you know someone who is being cheated on and refuse to tell them, it's the same as being an accessory to the crime.
5.) No excuses for your cheating spouse. If I had a dollar for every time the people on these infidelity forums have seen a hurting spouse make excuses for their cheating spouse I would be rich. Basically, IT'S NOT YOUR PLACE to be analyzing why your spouse cheated on you.. You are not a mental health specialists. There is one big reason why betrayed spouses do this, and it's simple. If you can absolve your spouse of responsibility, then it must not be their fault, so then you can stay with them and not feel the pain anymore, right? If they just have an excuse, you can stay married to them and then you don't have to face being alone, see how that works? NO SPOUSE HAS A LEGITIMATE REASON FOR CHEATING ON YOU, NONE!!! Nothing you do can EVER be a reason for your spouse to bring a third party in to your intimate relationship you share together. A spouse can always come to you and tell you they are not happy and that they want to move on without you. There is NEVER a need to cheat, and it can NEVER be the right decision. Excuses for your spouse are really you trying to cheat out of the pain.
6.) Do not plead and beg to your cheating spouse to stay with you. To someone that is in the fantasy land of an affair, you already hold a lower place than the affair partner. They have lost their respect for you to begin with. Begging and pleading, crying at their feet looks terribly pathetic to your cheating spouse. It looks weak and unattractive and will simply make them pull away from you even harder because their affair partner doesn't grovel like this, they are strong and confident. To a cheating spouse, your crying and begging looks pathetic and weak, and it's the fastest way you can drive them even further away. It feels terribly unnatural to stand up to the person you fear will leave you. It's nature to want to beg them to stay, but the truth is exactly opposite. You want them to see you strong, confident. You must show them what they are losing. They are losing their friend, their partner for years, their home life, their security, maybe even their kids. How many times have the folks here seen a betrayed spouse try to be nice by giving the cheater money and offer everything up in a divorce trying to :*nice* their spouse back, only to end up losing so much more than they had to in a divorce? Do not try to buy your spouses love and respect back, most of the time you end up losing so much more in the end, and then a few years later when the pain is gone, you are saying to yourself "was I stupid or what? I lost everything I had because I was trying to give my cheating spouse the kitchen sink to show her how wonderful I was and make them want to come back" This never works. Giving the cheater everything they ask for because of your pain only puts you in more misery eventually, far more than you needed to endure.
7.) Did you know that your cheating spouse may not be who you were supposed to grow old with? That's right, it may not be in the cards for you two. I am a firm believer in fate, and I believe that most everyone has someone they are eventually supposed to grow old with and share their lives with. Would you want to stay in a betrayed marriage and miss the real person you were meant to grow old with? Of course not. No one wants to end up with the wrong person. There may be another person out there, right now, living their life, that is supposed to meet you when the time is right. Someone that won't cheat on you and that will forever love and respect you. They wouldn't be able to cheat on you no more than you would on them. Isn't this the kind of person you want to grow old with? Always keep in mind what kind of love you deserve. You DID NOT DESERVE to be cheated on. You deserve someone who will always be honest and true to you.
8.) Did you know that divorce, in most cases, IS THE FASTEST WAY for the pain to die? I have seen couples reconcile and the betrayed spouse is still in bad pain even years down the road. If you cut your losses and divorce, in just six months you are well down your new path and new life. You will still hurt, but your new direction gives you new goals, new friends, new perspectives, new jobs, new homes, new everything.
When you make that decision to move on, it's like you have been a swimmer underwater, drowning and not knowing which way the light and air is. Then, you make a firm, final decision, and it's like the swimmer has now seen where to swim to. You swim toward the light. You are still drowning, but now you have a goal. You are not floundering in darkness, but you can put all your energy in to swimming toward the light and air. There's nothing like having a real direction and goal to move toward for easing your pain.
Human nature will tell you that divorce will be the most pain, because you don't want to be alone and lonely while your cheating spouse takes off with their new fantasy. I would say it's completely opposite. The pain thrives in your indecision and fear of loneliness, And like I said before, you wouldn't want to miss out on the real person you are supposed to grow old with, would you?
I am not advocating divorce for all couples going through this, I just want to make sure you understand that your emotions will make you want to try and hold on to your marriage out of fear and you will think that the path of least pain is staying in a betrayed marriage, when really, divorcing is usually the path with the least amount of overall pain, far less pain usually.
It takes years in a betrayed marriage for the mind movies to stop. Wondering if he or she moaned, or rubbed their back as they had sex. Did he kiss her ear, put his tongue in her ear and whisper "I Love you?" Did she or he have a better orgasm than they ever had with you? Would they really tell you the truth if they did, how do you know? How will you feel when you hear a joke about infidelity, or see it in a movie you are both watching? Can you ever be comfortable being around friends and family who know your spouse has been inside another woman, or that your wife was penetrated by another man?
If you decide to reconcile, ask all these questions of yourself. Can you be happy again knowing you are with a cheater while realizing that there may be another person out there you would have met and that would have loved and honored you, been faithful to you, and would give you the true love you deserve? Can you handle living without that special, exclusive intimacy that your cheating spouse destroyed forever? Your pain will tell you "yes, I just want my darling back because I want this pain to end and I am afraid to be alone and lonely, facing an unsure life without them". This is pain, fear, and emotion talking, not a person making rational decisions that aren't based in fear and loneliness.
Make your decisions with your future mind, not with your emotional, hurting mind. The hurting mind is the one that looks pathetic and weak when it tells you try to beg and cry, grab their feet and beg while they walk out the door. It's the mind that will tell you to win them back by being nice and giving them any and everything, money, your kids, your body....only to have you cursing yourself a couple years later after the pain is gone for losing everything you had to a cheater by trying to buy them back or "nice" them back. Your future mind is the one that sees reality as it really is. It will have you make decisions rationally, not based on fear and pain but for what's best for your future and well being. Remember I said that in ten years you will say to yourself "I wouldn't change a single thing that has happened because it made me who I am now"? That's your future mind and that's what you should be using to make your decisions.
9.) YOUR BEAUTIFUL KIDS!! I am a single father and I have raised two wonderful children for over ten years by myself. My son is now 18 and in college, and my darling daughter is 14 and doing well. Last year, my daughter was crying because she didn't have a Mom and other girls do. Her and I are so close it's beyond words as you parents know. I explained to her that "I wouldn't change a single thing that happened". She asked why, and I explained to her that had I stayed married, her and I surely would not have the exact same relationship we have together now. I told her that I would not have been able to spend and devote so much time to her had there been another parent involved.
I asked her if she thought about it, would she really want things to be different than they are now, even in our relationship? She thought about it and said, "No dad, No way" The point I am making is, your children will always be your darlings, no matter if you are married or not. In my case, my relationship as a single dad has brought my children and I as close as can be imagined. I cannot say our relationship would be special in this exact way had I stayed married. I wouldn't trade the gift of raising my children alone for the last ten years for all the money in the world. It has been a real blast having it be just them and me. My children will always know that I stuck it out to raise them, and they will always know how much I love them.
Don't stay in a betrayed marriage just because you think your kids will be better off. You may actually end up far closer to them because of a divorce because it does change your relationship to them, often making you closer than you would have ever been with two parents, and that special thing can be the most rewarding feeling in your entire life. I can honestly say, ten years down the road, "I wouldn't change a single thing that has happened over these years if I could".
10.) Your pain will leave, it's really true. The people on this site are at the end of the tunnel, they came through it, and they are now talking to you while you are still in the tunnel. They are telling you to keep your hands on the walls and follow their voices to the daylight. They made it through and you will too. You are not the only person to travel this tunnel, and now you are no longer lost, you have many others who have been right where you are guiding you to the daylight. Listen to them and follow their lead. You too will be on the outside of the tunnel, and you will be guiding other lost, hurting souls through the darkness soon. It feels so good to not hurt anymore, and there's nothing in the world that can stop your pain from dying in time, so feel secure in that knowledge. Good luck.
I think now we're getting to the point where she's taking that step so I mentioned about looking at getting MC. She replied by saying "I think it would set us back" and "do you really think it helps being labeled and lectued as if all people's circumstances are the same"
1. She thinks we'd be able to sort things on our own
2. She doesn't actually want to sort things out at all
3. She doesn't want to have to talk about what has happened and admit that she's done something awful and hurtful. I'm thinking that maybe the thought of having to talk about it is taking some of the glean off the EA.
I'm sorry guy but you need to actually connect the dots here. She doesn't want to do MC, because she doesn't want to WORK ON THE MARRIAGE!
I'm really sorry that your going through all this... but seriously its kind of your own fault. It really feels to me like your trying so desperately to hold onto your wife that your force her away. The more you act like a 12yo girl... the less she is going to want you. Do you even wonder why she is chasing after such a Jerkoff? Seriously this other guy seems like a total waste of time... so why does she want him?
This is my last post with this kind of advice, so take it or leave it.
Unless your willing to lose a woman, you will never be able to keep one. Fact.
And my thoughts to you personally? You are being a doormat and NOTHING is more pathetic to a cheater. You are afraid to be alone so if you can just absolve her of responsibility, well then you don't have to feel pain because you don't have to dvorce her right, since it's not her fault. She has a sexual affair with this guy and you are living in a fairy tale if you thinks it's anything else. You don't leave your spouse because you feel emotional over someone.
If you keep this pathetic stuff up, you are in for TEN TIMES the pain that you need go through. Your wife is in a full blown affair, sex and all and the sooner you man up and accept the truth the less pain you will go through. It's not your place to analyze her and not your place to make excuses for a cheater. YOUR ONLY hope is to file for divorce and have her served. That's the only way to shock her back to reality and make her see she is losing you forever.
Mark my words, stand on the sideline and let your wife have her affair with your blessing while you grovel and make excuses for her is going to cause you TEN TIMES the pain that need be. get your but back home and tell her to get her stuff out and you are getting a divorce and that will end her cake-eating fairytale real quick. She's having an affair with YOUR BLESSING, while you grovel and HOPE she's decide on you. Keep being wishy washy and you'll be right back here a year from now in the same hell. book it. YOU ARE BEING DISRESPECTED and it's time to man up and stop making excuses and stop believing she's doing this garbage because she's only emotionally involved. MEN DON'T get emotionally involvd in affairs, THEY WANT SEX and he wouldn't be hanging around that long without it. Man up or wallow in this misery for a LONG TIME.
I know that when put like that I seem like a fool for wanting to be with her. But I married her because I love her, she's a wonderful person, will make a wonderful mother, loved me deeply and we had all our hopes and dreams for the future together.
Am I willing to settle for that? I suppose yes I am. Damaged goods some might say, but if I spend my whole life jumping out of relationships because they're not perfect then I'll probably end up sad & lonely with a string of perfectly good (but not perfect) relationships behind me. Hopefully my wife will realise that too in the long term.
I'm not talking about jumping in and out of relationships looking for perfection. jumping out of a relationship because of some annoying habits a significant other might have is one thing.......the significant other being unfaithful is COMPLETELY another story. Thats quite a bit more than simply not being perfect.
I wish you the best my man, but I know exactly what is going to happen. You are going to look for all and any reasons to stay with her, yet you will always have this lingering doubt about her and always be reliving in your mind what she did. If you can live with that, then good luck.
Last edited by Dexter Morgan; 3rd November 2009 at 1:55 PM..
I also wish you the best (sighs). Its obvious you are just going to let her walk all over you. I do wish you would get your balls back. It appears she took them from you many years ago.
Thanks to all for your comments. Some seem more constructive than others. It appears some of you do seem to think that my situation requires a little more tact than the bulldozer approach of manning up and growing back balls. I'm not sure if that approach worked out in people's own situations or whether it just helped claw back some masculinity.
I've thought long and hard about everything that has been said and obviously don't want to be the doormat I'm currently seen as.
So my plan and goals are thus:
Respect my wife's request for minimal contact between the two of us for the remainder of this week
This weekend is my birthday so we have plans to meet up and go out together and for me this should be the end the period of minimal contact
She needs to have established NC with OM - trying isn't good enough. If this isn't the case by the weekend, I will give her my ultimatum
Once NC is established, 180 in my behaviour & no relationship talk (thanks 65tr6)
Your post of 10 points did contain some good ideas and perspectives but I must admit I don't think all your advice is that insightful. For example...
"I think of the movei Porky's, where the male kid is so horny that he is carrying on a conversation about something and he's humping the air. That's guys!! Humping the air like a mindless dog.
I still see most cheating husbands as that teenager dry humping the air and taking about something completely different. They just want to get it wet and they usually want no emotional stuff. "
Posted 1st February 2009 in "differences between Men and Woman in affairs?"
I know you're only trying to help though, so thanks. I'm not trying to be rude, just I'm a real mental wreck right now.
Last edited by timbo1; 4th November 2009 at 5:24 AM..
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