Why on earth doesn't a sexless marriage qualify as either "Abuse" or "Alienation of affection"? That would certainly help the victims from getting reamed in a divorce settlement would it not?
I mean if one party has lived up to the marriage contract and the other has not why should the one who has not continue to benefit from the hardwork of the other?
Why on earth doesn't a sexless marriage qualify as either "Abuse" or "Alienation of affection"? That would certainly help the victims from getting reamed in a divorce settlement would it not?
I mean if one party has lived up to the marriage contract and the other has not why should the one who has not continue to benefit from the hardwork of the other?
Flame away.
I think that a lot of states have changed divorce laws so that there is really no reason to have to explain WHY the marriage is being disolved. In these No Fault states it simply doesn't matter why.
The courts make decisions based solely on the facts, finances, children, joint property etc, none of the emotional baggage needs be dredged up, and everyone can just get on with life. I think it is a good system, and that every state should provide for No Fault divorces.
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In principal that's great, but when you have to start writing an alimony check because you didn't want a roommate that's a bit ridiculous. I have no issue whatsoever with child support but alimony is a dated concept. Heck to some degree I even agree with splitting marital assets 50/50 but why should one spouse have to pay going forward? Is she gonna come over and do my laundry and cook me dinner (not that she does now).
In principal that's great, but when you have to start writing an alimony check because you didn't want a roommate that's a bit ridiculous. I have no issue whatsoever with child support but alimony is a dated concept. Heck to some degree I even agree with splitting marital assets 50/50 but why should one spouse have to pay going forward? Is she gonna come over and do my laundry and cook me dinner (not that she does now).
I agree, alimony is an outdated concept in this age of equality. Unless you forced your spouse to stay home and not work.
Perhaps EVERY marriage should have to start with a prenup... Personally I would love to be a stay at home wife and mother, but I couldn't imagine ever denying my partner sex either (within reason.. obviously I say no at times, and he does also).
But if I chose to live a sexless life, I would not expect my partner to continue providing in his "husbandly duties" ie finacial support.
Perhaps I am not typical though, I tend to be more old fashioned in my ideas about the difference between men and women and their roles and responsibilities in a relationship. *shrug*
Perhaps EVERY marriage should have to start with a prenup...
It is definitely getting to that point.
__________________ ...they think everything is smiles and sweetness and flowers, when there is something bitter to taste. And to pretend there isn't is foolish. -- edie sedgwick
Why do you think there is no sex? When did the lack of sex start? How often do you or don't you have sex?
Anything else?
Do you feel that there is any hope?
Oh, I am going to Iowa next month,...anything you want me to say?
And yes, I am a MSU fan, too.
__________________ "Only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. One is to let her think she is having her own way, the other is to let her have it." --LBJ
"Alienation of affection" has a very specific legal definition, and is usually only applied in cases where a loved one--usually a spouse or child--is UNABLE to continue a relationship, usually due to death or permanent incapacity. The definition does not include those UNWILLING to share affection (at least not in most states).
The good news is most states now allow no-fault divorce, so you do not have to concoct some nonsense to leave a bad marriage. I don't know what "reamed" means when you use it. Some people use "reamed" to refer to grossly unfair divorce settlments; others use it if they have to pay any kind of spousal or child support whatsoever.
In principal that's great, but when you have to start writing an alimony check because you didn't want a roommate that's a bit ridiculous. I have no issue whatsoever with child support but alimony is a dated concept. Heck to some degree I even agree with splitting marital assets 50/50 but why should one spouse have to pay going forward? Is she gonna come over and do my laundry and cook me dinner (not that she does now).
Right. I also agree with the post about sex and affection being 2 separate things, but in a good relationship are you not supposed to have both ?
These are some of the many reasons I refused marriage, but chose a partner's contract instead - we each wrote a draft with the things that were important to us and then after discussion added them together. It is flexible and a way to bring your individuality and life-philosophy into the relationship.
The act of marriage makes me think of those 1-size clothes - that hardly fit anyone...
If you feel the marriage is truly unfair end it. Really. The longer the marriage the more money you part with. It sounds like you are getting frozen out - unless you have very honest communication about stuff including sex - you cannot fix a sexually broken marriage.
Most cases - of sexlessness - the refuser is not willing to have a real discussion of the problem other then to just attack the requestor for being a bad person / not perfect. And in that situation there is no hope of repair except to say - I am divorcing you unless you can open up tell me what is broken and try to work through it. Even then low success rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparty97
Why on earth doesn't a sexless marriage qualify as either "Abuse" or "Alienation of affection"? That would certainly help the victims from getting reamed in a divorce settlement would it not?
I mean if one party has lived up to the marriage contract and the other has not why should the one who has not continue to benefit from the hardwork of the other?
Sex most certainly can be affectionate, but not all sex is. I think of sex and affection as two separate things. What if the person who didn't want sex, gave lots of hugs, kisses, and cuddles? They certainly didn't withhold affection, they just wouldn't spread their legs as a show of it.
It is patronizing to say that withholding sex is not denial of affection. This is a marriage - not a bff relationship.
If you find the other person so unapealing that you are willing to deny them this basic need - yes it is a need not a want - more on that below - then you should either free them to pursue this need outside the marriage or just end the marriage - be human. Because I can't speak for women - but for a man a sexless marriage is a type of abuse.
A man feels loved - really loved - through sex. Just wired that way. Deny him sex over time and you really are denying him love. You can cook all the great dinners, be the best housekeeper, mother of the year etc, give the best hugs - and the average man would say:
- Be a great mom
- Be a great lover
Everything else can be worked around, split, hired out, etc.
Children denied love wither. Adults denied love wither in a less visible way, but they do slowly inexorably wither.
>>>>
The spread your legs comment is not nice. It has a mean spirited tone to it. Be aware of something. Every year more and more women wake up to discover that their husband - usually happens later in life - their husband - has decided that porn is just a less stressful way to orgasm. It isn't their first choice - but they have heard "no" one too many times. They have been talked to like their needs make them some kind of an animal once too often. And they stop asking. The thing is - some of them, at that point you can start asking them they just don't want to anymore. Too many negative experiences surrounding it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeful1980
Sex most certainly can be affectionate, but not all sex is. I think of sex and affection as two separate things. What if the person who didn't want sex, gave lots of hugs, kisses, and cuddles? They certainly didn't withhold affection, they just wouldn't spread their legs as a show of it.
Love between the married spouses must have existed.
The marital love must have been alienated and destroyed.
The third party's conduct has to be proved to be malicious interference with the marriage relationship.
Most states in the United States have abolished this type of lawsuit as it is considered to be archaic and an unacceptable form of revenge.
Historically, the alienation of affection law was based on the belief that a wife was the property of her husband. Therefore, when a woman was emotionally or sexually involved with another man, she was considered to have been stolen.
Those who want the alienation of affection laws to remain believe that alienation of affection lawsuits protect traditional marriage.
Also Known As:
Criminal Conversation
Heart Balm Torts
Revenge
Spousal Theft
As of January 2008, the only states in the United States that allow alienation of affection lawsuits are: Hawaii, Illinois, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, South Dakota, and Utah.
I do not spoon my BFF. I don't stroke their hair or rub their knees. I don't give them back massages or foot rubs. It's not patronizing because there is plenty of sexual affection that goes no between a husband and wife that is NOT intercourse. You can give love without giving sex. It's unfortunate that you can't FEEL it without having sex, but it's most certainly given.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mem11363
It is patronizing to say that withholding sex is not denial of affection. This is a marriage - not a bff relationship.
If you find the other person so unapealing that you are willing to deny them this basic need - yes it is a need not a want - more on that below - then you should either free them to pursue this need outside the marriage or just end the marriage - be human. Because I can't speak for women - but for a man a sexless marriage is a type of abuse.
A man feels loved - really loved - through sex. Just wired that way. Deny him sex over time and you really are denying him love. You can cook all the great dinners, be the best housekeeper, mother of the year etc, give the best hugs - and the average man would say:
- Be a great mom
- Be a great lover
Everything else can be worked around, split, hired out, etc.
Children denied love wither. Adults denied love wither in a less visible way, but they do slowly inexorably wither.
>>>>
The spread your legs comment is not nice. It has a mean spirited tone to it. Be aware of something. Every year more and more women wake up to discover that their husband - usually happens later in life - their husband - has decided that porn is just a less stressful way to orgasm. It isn't their first choice - but they have heard "no" one too many times. They have been talked to like their needs make them some kind of an animal once too often. And they stop asking. The thing is - some of them, at that point you can start asking them they just don't want to anymore. Too many negative experiences surrounding it.
Same boat here. The way I see it, she is content in the pattern for now. She has a husband with a stable job, the kids are well fed and hitting school and there is lots to do around the house, take care of things. It is, in her mind, an ideal marriage.
Sex is on the back burner. She's doing too much around the house and in my situation, I think she is not happy with this role. She is a full time mother and a great wife, but having that sexual connection and energy in the bedroom isn't on the radar.
We're in a holding pattern for now. The children need to hit around 8 or 9 before things calm down. What I am most afraid of is seeing what state our marriage is in once we get to this point.
The one bit of advice I can give to you is that things won't change if you do not start getting out more. Dates are super tough, but the more you can plan one, the more you two can re-connect again.
For me, I also get out, alone, when I can. Even if I just stop off at a book store or something. See what it is like out there, in the wild. Remember how hard it is to find someone you can live with....look around and see all the dudds out there.
My wife does all those things. And she also connects in the literal sexual sense with me twice a week or so. However if you eliminate the sex and just leave all that affection - it is like an icy hot. The affection feels great - but without a moderate amount of sex - it leaves the man feeling even MORE sexually frustrated. So it is good and bad in equal amounts when without sex. If however the sex part is good then the affection is pure added joy. For me - sex about 2/week plus 5 nights of pure affection is heaven. That is what we both strive for.
Right now I am in a rare state of mild deprivation - today is day 8. My eldest daughter - 19 - has managed to greatly preturb my lovely wife - which has caused sadness/angst/depression which has breached the stainless steel door of our bedroom and caused her to temporarily shut down. This is part of life - I am just being kind and supportive and loving because sad - is just sad. And it is hard to be very sad and at all aroused for anyone. Even a guy gets that. During this deprivation I am a little less affectionate - which is not nice to wife - so I will make more effort tonight to just suppress my overflowing testosterone and be a nice spooner....
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopeful1980
I do not spoon my BFF. I don't stroke their hair or rub their knees. I don't give them back massages or foot rubs. It's not patronizing because there is plenty of sexual affection that goes no between a husband and wife that is NOT intercourse. You can give love without giving sex. It's unfortunate that you can't FEEL it without having sex, but it's most certainly given.
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