[deux ex machina]

My very obese neighbor had a new commode installed in her bathroom, and said she hated it. It looked fine to me, so I asked her why she hated it. She said it is too narrow for her.

Later that day, she was telling me how she has use powder to dust herself, because otherwise she gets a rash in the folds of her skin. Especially when it’s hot outside.

I have to admit, these are things I never thought about – there must be a lot of difficulties really obese people have that are unknown to the rest of us.

If you are very obese, or know someone who is really obese, you might know the answers some of these questions.

These questions are for/about people who extremely obese, yet still mobile and independent. These are not asked to be rude. Thanks in advance for any answers.

• Does it get in the way of having sex? If it is two very obese people, does it get in the way?

• How does a person clean themselves after going to the bathroom if they have trouble reaching?

• Does a person who is really large require larger doses of some medicines? Have to pay more for insurance, ect.?

• How does a very obese person afford all of that food?

[JamesM]

I am not obese nor do I personally know these answers from someone who is obese. I can say that After reading a couple of books on obesity, I have changed my view. People who are obese do not simply have an overeating problem. There are many who eat no more than you or I. It is simply how their body is "wired."

And when they diet, many regain the weight back on eating normal. There is some gene that is looking to be the reason.

Originally Posted by deux ex machina

[*]How does a person clean themselves after going to the bathroom if they have trouble reaching?

It is very difficult. My wife being a nurse, has mentioned this. The result is that many are not as clean as you and I. And yes, they develop a rash. Imagine any fold on your own skin that shows redness when pressed together too long. This is no different and even worse.

Bathing an obese person is not easy. My wife has had back problems due to lifting them. She feels only compassion I might add.

[*]Does a person who is really large require larger doses of some medicines? Have to pay more for insurance, ect.?

Absolutely on the meds. It is determined by weight. Plus giving them a shot can be difficult. Finding a vein is difficult.

As for insurance, I don't know but don't think so.

[*]How does a very obese person afford all of that food?

This is based on a misconception. Yes, there a quite a few who do eat way more than they should, but there are as many who do not eat much more than a normal person. Well, they do not eat as much as it appears based on their size. Have you ever noticed that skinny guy who sits and puts away more than the average guy yet never gains weight? Same thing here. Metabolism is a key.

This book helped me see that it is not all about eating too much that makes a person obese....
http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Thi.../dp/0374103984

[whimsical_memory]

Originally Posted by deux ex machina

My very obese neighbor had a new commode installed in her bathroom, and said she hated it. It looked fine to me, so I asked her why she hated it. She said it is too narrow for her.

Later that day, she was telling me how she has use powder to dust herself, because otherwise she gets a rash in the folds of her skin. Especially when it’s hot outside.

I have to admit, these are things I never thought about – there must be a lot of difficulties really obese people have that are unknown to the rest of us.

If you are very obese, or know someone who is really obese, you might know the answers some of these questions.

These questions are for/about people who extremely obese, yet still mobile and independent. These are not asked to be rude. Thanks in advance for any answers.

• Does it get in the way of having sex? If it is two very obese people, does it get in the way?
  

• How does a person clean themselves after going to the bathroom if they have trouble reaching?

• Does a person who is really large require larger doses of some medicines? Have to pay more for insurance, ect.?

• How does a very obese person afford all of that food?

1. Not at all..um..usually if it is two big people, doggy style or sideways works better than trying missionary or cowgirl.

2. Just like you do, we wipe ourselves clean. Might have to prop a leg up to get it clean, but it gets cleaned.

3. No, we don't require larger amounts of medicines. And no, we don't have to pay more for insurance.

4. First, that question is slightly offensive, because it takes no more food to become huge than it does to remain skinny. It all comes down to food choices.

[whimsical_memory]

Originally Posted by deux ex machina

My very obese neighbor had a new commode installed in her bathroom, and said she hated it. It looked fine to me, so I asked her why she hated it. She said it is too narrow for her.

Later that day, she was telling me how she has use powder to dust herself, because otherwise she gets a rash in the folds of her skin. Especially when it’s hot outside.

I have to admit, these are things I never thought about – there must be a lot of difficulties really obese people have that are unknown to the rest of us.

If you are very obese, or know someone who is really obese, you might know the answers some of these questions.

These questions are for/about people who extremely obese, yet still mobile and independent. These are not asked to be rude. Thanks in advance for any answers.

• Does it get in the way of having sex? If it is two very obese people, does it get in the way?

• How does a person clean themselves after going to the bathroom if they have trouble reaching?

• Does a person who is really large require larger doses of some medicines? Have to pay more for insurance, ect.?

• How does a very obese person afford all of that food?

What is your definition of your very obese neighbor? I weigh around 260, so that is how I answered the questions..


Tell her to try using a cornstarch based powder, and to sprinkle it all over her body. Also, tell her to use her hair dryer to dry under her fat rolls, in between her thighs, under her breasts. Also, if she has an 'apron' (she'll know what this is) tell her that it is vitally important that she keeps that area clean and dry, constantly. Using powders..even taking some Degree deodorant and rolling it on there will cut down on not only the rashes, but also the smell.

[EarthGirl]

I'm around 260 and I don't have any "fat rolls" that cause me to get red irritated skin...I get itchy sometimes (pretty much all over my whole body) if I skip showering for a day or two...and also then when I do shower depending on the soap/bodywash I use it can even make it worse (or better if it is a good one) because I have sensitive skin. I may smell better but I still feel itchy..I think I'm going to try Dove ...I always see those commercials about how it washes cleaner and other soaps leave a "film" on your skin..and I believe it cause I kind feel that way sometimes even if I use a wash cloth or a loofa to exfoliate...Anyway and when I get sweaty I get a little itchy too....which of course I do get sweatier more easily than I used to because of my weight when it's warm outside and I do physical activity even just walking up a hill or stairs....

But yeah I guess my weight is pretty evenly distributed? my whole body is just a larger version of itself basically...so I don't really have any "rolls" yet (hopefully won't ever get them till I'm an old lady cause i'm working on losing weight now and I hope to never get above 260)...evenly distributed except unfortunately my once beautiful c-cup boobs ....a good portion of my weight went there so I don't know what'll happen when I lose the weight, but it's annoying now and hurts the back sometimes, and embarrassing to have the Dolly Parton boobs, but maybe that's why I don't really have any rolls on my stomach or something? When I sit down and hunch over of course I have rolls, but many thinner people do as well. Strangely the only place on my body that is still rock hard are my calves...still feel like pure muscle just bigger, hopefully they will shrink a little though but keep the muscle.

Anyway quantity of food is not necessarily related to price directly always anyway...sure I'm sure I eat more food than a lot of your average people...particularly women my height and my age...Maybe even twice as much as they do on a daily basis...sometimes I basically eat two meals in a row. But I don't eat even close to what a lot of people I think imagine that a person my weight really eats...whole pizzas in one sitting, and whole cartons of icecream, etc. Once in a while I "binge" and get somewhere close to that, but 85/90 percent of the time I'm eating much more moderately. Sometimes I actually go a long time without eating because I get tired of it or get involved with something else on my mind and "forget to eat" as much as sometimes I can think of nothing else...if my stomach feels ok and not starving and something else is pressing on my mind, I can go 10 hours without eating just like anybody else who is worried about something...but i have to be careful because I'm hypoglycemic and my blood sugar can get low and then I get faint.

Anyway yeah I was saying that well if you think about it and you look at the store, you can get little debbie cakes for a couple dollars, a whole box of them. And I think that is possibly even worse for you than a real homemade cake in some ways...don't know about the calories but it's got to have lots of bad stuff in it. And you can get greasy burgers and fries from all sorts of fast food places for just a few dollars as well, and they're packed with calories. You may get an even bigger meal at another restaurant but even if it has cheese and all that good stuff in it, it might probably be overall less calories because it's made with fresher ingredients..healthier with more actual nutrition and a little bit less calories even though with all the ingredients together and cooked well it may taste great.

So in essence since buying really healthy organic food typically costs more (not saying there aren't ways to buy healthy that aren't so expensive)...you know it kinda evens out. So obese people may in fact eat more than others, and may even pay a little more, but that does not mean they are going bankrupt the way regular middle class people with another more expensive addiction (say cocaine or something) would likely end up.

[JamesM]

Originally Posted by whimsical_memory

What is your definition of your very obese neighbor? I weigh around 260, so that is how I answered the questions..

I answered it based on proportions and not a number.

My brother probably is at least 250 but is also 6' 1". I would not call him obese.

A good friend of ours is at least 250 and about 5' 5". I still would not call her "very obese." Big...yes, but not obese. I would call her a BBW.

Now if my brother was 350#, then for his frame I think he would be classified as obese. If our friend was 300#, then I think yes.

I can honestly say that I have not experienced a larger percentage of "very obese" people who are unclean than I have found with "skinny" people. In fact, the opposite is true in my experience.

No question, there is a prejudice against obese people, and the main reason is that "normal" people assume that obesity can be avoided. Hence, obesity equals laziness, and this is not true. If the nation would come together and realize that obesity is much more than simply a change in diet, then it could be solved. If obesity was not considered a symbol of laziness, then we could see beyond the physical and realize that there is someone no different than you and I.

I think that more people are prejudiced against obese people than any other "classification" of people in our society today. While we all "love" to say we are not prejudiced, in reality when confronted with someone who sits next to us at a restaurant who is obese, the look on our face says it all.

[deux ex machina]

Originally Posted by JamesM

I answered it based on proportions and not a number...

In my original post, that is what I did, too.

First, I'm terrible at guessing weight - when anyone asks me to, I refuse to do it.

Second, weight and BMI are only a very small part of a much broader picture. BMI is next to useless when applied to individuals, imho. Some of the most obviously fit people around would be classified as obese according to BMI.



Thanks for the pretty evenhanded, honest responses thus far.


JamesM - Thanks for addressing those things that you know of from your wife. Helps to have a nurse in the family.

whimsical_memory - I know she uses medicated powder now. She got out of the hospital for knee issues, and learned to about the product there.

EarthGirl - I love your post. You brought up so many lot of great points! Thank you

[sb129]

Originally Posted by JamesM

I am not obese nor do I personally know these answers from someone who is obese. I can say that After reading a couple of books on obesity, I have changed my view. People who are obese do not simply have an overeating problem. There are many who eat no more than you or I. It is simply how their body is "wired."

And when they diet, many regain the weight back on eating normal. There is some gene that is looking to be the reason.

I haven't read the book you mentioned James, so forgive me, but I do find it really really hard to believe what you say above when obesity is very uncommon in many populations around the globe, and was relatively uncommon globally until about 50 years ago.

Originally Posted by JamesM

My brother probably is at least 250 but is also 6' 1". I would not call him obese.

A good friend of ours is at least 250 and about 5' 5". I still would not call her "very obese." .

BMI can be very misleading, but people (particularly the medical field) need some kind of index to help standardise obesity, otherwise its all down to subjective opinion, which could be potentially dangerous.

Eating "normally" is also subjective unless you follow scientific guidelines, which many people would find difficult. My normal calorie intake is about 2000cal a day, sometimes I need to make myself eat more at the moment- other people would struggle to eat less than 4000.

You say you wouldn't call the above weights obese, but I most definitely would, esp the 5'5"- thats a BMI of nearly 42, which is unhealthy from a cardiovascular point of view among other things. That person would almost definitely be in a much higher risk category were they to require a general anaesthetic.

To the OPs questions.

Our insurance company definitely charges you more if your weight falls outside the recommended healthy range for your height.

I have been wondering a few of these things myself, as I am pregnant (full term) and a few of the things you asked now apply to me.

I was 63kg (138lb) when I fell pregnant and I am now 83kg (182lb). Putting on that amount of weight is considered safe and within normal limits given I started out at a nearly optimal weight for my height. (5'7")

1. Sex- my size definitely has gotten in the way. We have had to be a little more creative.

2. Drying myself has become much more difficult after a shower. Esp my feet! bending over is tough.

[laRubiaBonita]

well as having been previously heavy (275+) i must say- if it's a lifelond thing, you get used to doing what you need to do to get things done, like tying your shoes or reaching awkward spots....... usually it is not an overnight thing where one would be at a total loss.

[quankanne]

Does it get in the way of having sex? If it is two very obese people, does it get in the way? interestingly enough, the worst sex is with skinny guys, because even through my fat, I could feel their hipbones cutting into me (a friend who is also overweight confirmed that for me recently). Cushioning is important, and there are different ways to get the act done. With my husband, it's about what's the best position to keep his back protected (bad back) rather than how to "do" a heavy wife.

How does a person clean themselves after going to the bathroom if they have trouble reaching? the same way everyone else does, I would imagine, just be a bit more thorough. I will tell you that a higher toilet – the handicapped ones – makes it easier all around because you're sitting at a better angle to wipe AND leverage yourself up and down off the pot. And there's room to move around to get your business done when you're peeing in a public place.

Does a person who is really large require larger doses of some medicines? Have to pay more for insurance, ect.? the only time the dosages go up (or down) is when I have to adjust the insulin dosage to counteract my blood sugar levels. As for insurance, Uncle Sam's got me covered, thanks to my husband's military background – I'm guessing that nowadays, private insurance is going to be high regardless of your size!

How does a very obese person afford all of that food? I really should be offended at your tacky question, but I'll laugh it off instead: My husband is the one responsible for buying all the crap and junk food in our house, and I really don't eat the stuff anymore. Even when I'm out and about, the "junk" I get tends to be stuff like granola bars or yogurt (easier to digest and generally have a better taste to them), if I buy ice cream, it theoretically can stay in my freezer a long long time, provided DH doesn't find it and devour it.

I also think we heavier people face the same challenge as those who are more height-weight proportional: Healthy food is often more expensive than the stuff that's not as healthy. Pasta is cheap. Burgers are cheap. Pechugas (raw or the grilled chicken you get at a fastfood place) are expensive. Salads at fast food places are expensive, though you can put together one pretty cheaply. Summer vegetables cost a king's ransom in the grocery stores, though if you've got friends growing their own gardens, you make out like a bandit.

we are no different than the average person in what we consume, just in how our body metabolizes it and if we incorporate exercise in our diet.

[D-Lish]

Eating "normally" is also subjective unless you follow scientific guidelines, which many people would find difficult. My normal calorie intake is about 2000cal a day, sometimes I need to make myself eat more at the moment- other people would struggle to eat less than 4000.

I couldn't imagine consuming 4000 calories a day! But I guess some foods can be deceptive. A muffin for instance may seem harmless for breakfast, but can run up to 600 calories.

I used to be able to stay thin on about 2000 calories a day along with a good excercise program- now that I am in my 30's, I eat under 1500 (try to stay around 1200). I also try to excercise a little more.

I'm the first to admit that it's totally hard to stay thin with all the food temptations out there.

I disagree that a large amout of obese people are victims of a genetic disorder - that they eat the same amount as a much thinner person but still reach obese levels. The thyroid is sometimes the culprit- but that can be regulated with medication. I think it's really about consuming too many calories and not enough excercise. I think the availability of bad foods are too readily available.

Some people might be a bit larger naturally- but rarely reaching obesity.

I'm almost 5'8", currently around 120lbs. I have to work hard, hard, hard to stay in this range- and I fight wanting to eat the wrong foods everyday all day. If I ate everything I had a craving for, I'd be in trouble.

I think food is as much an addiction as alcohol.

[sb129]

Agreed D-Lish- admittedly I have given in to most of my cravings since being pregnant, but TBH the novelty has worn off and I am back to healthy eating now.
And I can't WAIT to get back to the gym.

4000 calories a day IS alot, but as you say it only takes a muffin (600), a starbucks latte ( can be up to 600) a couple of beers or glasses of wine (500+) and some extra snacks here and there to boost things up. drinks like OJ and fizzy stuff are loaded with calories too. And many people don't count fruit or salad dressings, but even they has calories that need to be taken into consideration.

There are LOTS of food temptations out there, and portion sizes are enormous these days- however if you go to an expensive restaurant they are usually teeeeeny.

So I didn't really get the "cost" question in the OP either.

[Citizen Erased]

Originally Posted by laRubiaBonita

honestly quank- i found this thread offensive.... either that or written by a a naive individual- seriously..... grow up people!

I can see why you would be offended but I don't think the OP is actually meaning harm, unlike others that have started threads like these.

[EarthGirl]

Originally Posted by D-Lish

I couldn't imagine consuming 4000 calories a day! But I guess some foods can be deceptive. A muffin for instance may seem harmless for breakfast, but can run up to 600 calories.

I used to be able to stay thin on about 2000 calories a day along with a good excercise program- now that I am in my 30's, I eat under 1500 (try to stay around 1200). I also try to excercise a little more.

I'm the first to admit that it's totally hard to stay thin with all the food temptations out there.

I disagree that a large amout of obese people are victims of a genetic disorder - that they eat the same amount as a much thinner person but still reach obese levels. The thyroid is sometimes the culprit- but that can be regulated with medication. I think it's really about consuming too many calories and not enough excercise. I think the availability of bad foods are too readily available.

Some people might be a bit larger naturally- but rarely reaching obesity.

I'm almost 5'8", currently around 120lbs. I have to work hard, hard, hard to stay in this range- and I fight wanting to eat the wrong foods everyday all day. If I ate everything I had a craving for, I'd be in trouble.

I think food is as much an addiction as alcohol.

D-Lish, that is not the point at all....wether someone has a genetic disorder or thyroid problem or not is really irrelevant from my perspective. Some fat people use that idea as a defense against close-minded people who cannot fathom that there could be reasons beyond what they can comprehend that someone would "give in" to cravings and not exercise the way they "should". However it is just as complex and difficult a problem to conquer as most afflictions or addictions if you want to call it that..that is certainly an element of it. It is both a physical and psychological issue and to restrict it to being just a physical issue...as if-if someone DOES have a genetic condition that exempts them from being at fault, but a person with psychological issues (or for a combination of both physical and psychological reasons for being fat-which holds true for most fat people) is just considered lazy and disgusting.

Whereas maybe not all people, but it seems many more people have much more understanding for drug addicts, alcholics, people with gambling problems, etc...Especially if they do keep trying to stay "sober" even if they continue to relapse from time to time until they finally get it right. Some people, especially people with parental/family histories of drug abuse I think either tend to be super understanding, or just the opposite, they won't put up with it at all, and will turn their nose up to any person suffering with such a thing...which is understandable especially if it is something that ruined their childhood.


But for the most part these days the public seems to be more and more understanding and open about drug problems, and all sorts of other darknesses..But yet obesity is still something to be ridiculed and still makes a person a "loser" if they do carry those extra pounds (which is not easy in itself by the way).

That is what James was talking about in his post. Although I have never been able to say it so succinctly and elegantly.

But anyway my theory as to why obese people continue to be targeted for bullying or badmouthing by many other citizens who don't know what it's like (and some people who DO know what it's like but have since lost the weight-the worst of all)...is simply because it's so easy to SEE. Yeah smokers and coffee/caffeine addicts may tend to have yellow teeth, and you may be able to spot a junkie by behavior or dilated eyes or whatever..but you have to get up somewhat close for that.

Obesity just by it's nature is something that is easy to see and hard to miss. You can see it in a person all across a big parking lot already that they are fat, and you've already started to judge them as people without even seeing their face or hearing them speak.

And personally it is just my theory that the reason obesity is the last frontier of tolerance is simply because of human nature and being that it's so easy to spot and people just fall in line ..when one person says something about what it means to be fat and why someone can't lose weight without even knowing or meeting the person....especially when they think they have technical knowledge of burning more calories than you take in and it should be so simple right?...then another falls in line...it's just so easy.

It doesn't say a lot about human nature..but it's logical I guess.

I am not criticizing anybody here or anyone in particular. I have not found most people to be so callous and close-minded, just come upon them every once in a while.

p.s.. I am 5, 3 and a half...I think I was almost 5,4 when I was 18 or so and done growing and not too fat yet, I think I might have shrunk a little already cause of the extra weight (depressing!-does that happen? probably) even though I'm still in my 20's as of now.

But anyway my ideal weight at that height I remember to be about 130, maybe a few more. That's at least ten pounds more than you D, but I am shorter..so I don't know..but I had very little fat on me, nor did I have big body builder/gymnastics muscles...just slim ones..but I was a dancer and although I have always had very weak arms and always HATED working on them, push-ups etc...so painful. I never did really mind on working on most of the other muscles, actually enjoyed working on my abs, doing lunges etc. And I know that muscle weighs more than fat, so maybe that's why? But I enjoyed being a little curvy and women all have different body types, and it's true some women have a bone structure that is meant to be quite slender and other's are meant to have a little more meat. I don't think it's about the old phrase "big boned" but actually about the whole bone structure of each individual body? Every woman has a slightly different shape...not just boob size but the whole shape.

And it's also true that women that are meant to be very slender (like you D at 120 and 5'8) still have to work at it sometimes to be at THEIR "ideal weight". But it does not necessarily mean they are heading towards anorexia...obviously unless they are in fact underweight and go below whatever their ideal weight for their body is...or of course if they are exhibiting the behaviors of the disease.

[D-Lish]

Originally Posted by EarthGirl

D-Lish, that is not the point at all....wether someone has a genetic disorder or thyroid problem or not is really irrelevant from my perspective.

And it's also true that women that are meant to be very slender (like you D at 120 and 5'8) still have to work at it sometimes to be at THEIR "ideal weight". But it does not necessarily mean they are heading towards anorexia...obviously unless they are in fact underweight and go below whatever their ideal weight for their body is...or of course if they are exhibiting the behaviors of the disease.

I think you mis-read my point, I was responding to JamesM, that said, sometimes obesity has to do with people not being genetically able to eat the same things as thinner people and maintain the same weight. I simply stated that obesity is not often genetic.

I also stated that I thought food was as devious as alchohol when it comes to addiction.

I'm not naturally slender- I clarified that in my post as well.