WHich way-
He's away golfing with his friends (all of whom I've met) and I was supposed to join him and his friends except I had emergency surgery (total abdominal hysterectomy) on September 9th, and am just at the end of my recovery. Please reread my original posts.
Our relationship is not based on sex. Sorry to disappoint you. We haven't had sex for 8 weeks, and didn't right away either. What he has are emotional needs that aren't being fulfilled. He receives no affection from her and when he has tried she rejects him completely.
And would I leave a M of 33 years if I was miserable? YES.
As I have said if he divorced it wouldn't be for me necessarily but because he wants to. I am not so stupid to think he would just leave for me. There are no in-laws involved (all deceased) and she doesn't get along with his family. They don't socialize a lot so there are that many ties to sever. They aren't religious or part of any community functions. They live a very quiet life. She goes out 1-2x a week with her girlfriends. Who knows maybe she has OM?
And if you really read my posts our A is based on compatability and enjoying the same things in life. He has told me from day 1 that if we were to have sex he isn't even sure if the "parts" would work as its been so long.
He has spent more time with me doing regular mudane things (which I really like) than having sex. It just isn't all about the sex.
As for my breaking point? Not sure. But he knows when I can't take it anymore I'm gone.
One other thing in case you missed it.
She wants nothing to do with him. Shares no interests in being active- going for a walk, learning how to play golf, going on the boat, furnishing the house, gardening, nothing. I mean absolutely nothing. They have no common interests.
I don't think he's lying. I can't divulge how I know about the counseling but I do know it took place. HIPAA. That's all I can say about that. He doesn't know that I know he really went for counseling, but lets just say that I know that for a fact.
I have also been able to find out a few other things that he told me and those are true too. Is he perfect? No. Am I? No. Is anyone? No.
I feel as though you are being awfully harsh with me.......
WHich way-
He's away golfing with his friends (all of whom I've met) and I was supposed to join him and his friends except I had emergency surgery (total abdominal hysterectomy) on September 9th, and am just at the end of my recovery. Please reread my original posts.
Our relationship is not based on sex. Sorry to disappoint you. **Not on single person said it was. My point was that MOST MM pull the "my wife won't put out to me" line and many OW buy it, when in actuality, they ARE having sex with their wives. We haven't had sex for 8 weeks, and didn't right away either. What he has are emotional needs that aren't being fulfilled. He receives no affection from her and when he has tried she rejects him completely. Again, how do you know he receives NO affection? Because he told you? The man who is lying to his wife -- he is lying to her but being truthful to you??
And would I leave a M of 33 years if I was miserable? YES.
As I have said if he divorced it wouldn't be for me necessarily but because he wants to. I am not so stupid to think he would just leave for me. There are no in-laws involved (all deceased) and she doesn't get along with his family. They don't socialize a lot so there are that many ties to sever. They aren't religious or part of any community functions. They live a very quiet life. She goes out 1-2x a week with her girlfriends. So why haven't they divorced? If their life together is as you describe it, why hasn't he left? Why hasn't she left? Who knows maybe she has OM?
And if you really read my posts our A is based on compatability and enjoying the same things in life. He has told me from day 1 that if we were to have sex he isn't even sure if the "parts" would work as its been so long.
He has spent more time with me doing regular mudane things (which I really like) than having sex. It just isn't all about the sex. Please don't get defensive - no one said it was all about sex.
As for my breaking point? Not sure. But he knows when I can't take it anymore I'm gone.
My responses in bold above.
__________________ We teach others how to treat us.
Fooled once-
I don't think he will "all of a sudden" divorce his wife for me. They have discussed how miserable they both are and if they should divorce 10-15 years ago. I think if he does follow through with divorcing her it isn't going to be for me- it will be for himself.
As for the finances, maybe you misunderstood. He is retired. She's been making $100k a year for many years and he still pays all the household bills and expenses with the money he makes. And half is half your right- she has a pretty healthly 401k herself as well as savings and other accounts - so he has already figured they'd both leave the marriage financially stable. He would just have to buy her out of the house- everything else divided equally leaves them both with half- she actually has more money than he does technically since her parents (who were quite weathly) have passed away. He doesn't have to work- and he still does. He is always turning down work. If he chose to work more he would make more, he just doesn't need to or want to. And she won't be able to "make him get a job"- there is simply too much money involved.
All she does is shop (which is none of my business and I have no issue with if that's what makes her happy). And I don't mean regular shopping- I mean mega shopping to fill the void she has inside her (like when people eat to fill that void)- do you know what I mean? He showed me pictures of clothes with tags on them piled 3-4-5 feet high. Did we laugh about it? NO. He felt bad and sad that nothing he has done for her makes her happy. I tried to explain that this type of behavior is not healthly and she is probably depressed to some degree. He has tried to get her into therapy again and she refuses to go. He feels like a failure, that he hasn't been able to get her to come around.
And to clarify- I did not (nor did he) say she was a mean person. He actually said she's a nice person that he just isn't attracted to or wants to be around any longer.
They tried counseling together and each of them alone about 15 years ago and did that for about 2 years. That didn't work.
Just so you know he has told me things over the years he is not proud of that he did in his marriage (which then prompted the counseling). He used to drink a lot- he was never abusive to her, just liked to party a lot and she partook also. The psychiatrist determined that he wasn't an alcoholic yet, but if he didn't stop or slow down he would become one. He stopped cold turkey and doesn't drink now. He has planned cruises for them and has tried to work things out. She still drinks just not as much.
I would never want the drama associated with calling his wife. That road isn't for me. And right now at this moment I am not prepared to give him an ultimatum.
And yes I do wonder how he lives so miserably. I have come right out and asked him. "Even if you weren't involved with me (this is what I said) don't you think you'd be living a happier life? And I also asked him how he could stay with someone he feels nothing for". His response has been that this is all he's known for 33 years.
I know this isn't a good situation for me.
But I'm just not ready to give an ultimatum, yet.
I don't think he will "all of a sudden" divorce his wife for me. They have discussed how miserable they both are and if they should divorce 10-15 years ago. I think if he does follow through with divorcing her it isn't going to be for me- it will be for himself.
Do you know this for a fact? Or is this just HIM telling you this.
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They tried counseling together and each of them alone about 15 years ago and did that for about 2 years. That didn't work.
So, why did they NOT divorce back then when they both were unhappy? Or really, is it just him that's unhappy.
Has he had other affairs? Or has he told you you've been the only OW?
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His response has been that this is all he's known for 33 years.
Sadly for you, that's probably going to be his reason why he won't leave her..Ever.
Fooled once-
I don't think he will "all of a sudden" divorce his wife for me. They have discussed how miserable they both are and if they should divorce 10-15 years ago. I think if he does follow through with divorcing her it isn't going to be for me- it will be for himself.
As for the finances, maybe you misunderstood. He is retired. She's been making $100k a year for many years and he still pays all the household bills and expenses with the money he makes. And half is half your right- she has a pretty healthly 401k herself as well as savings and other accounts - so he has already figured they'd both leave the marriage financially stable. He would just have to buy her out of the house- everything else divided equally leaves them both with half- she actually has more money than he does technically since her parents (who were quite weathly) have passed away. He doesn't have to work- and he still does. He is always turning down work. If he chose to work more he would make more, he just doesn't need to or want to. And she won't be able to "make him get a job"- there is simply too much money involved.
All she does is shop (which is none of my business and I have no issue with if that's what makes her happy). And I don't mean regular shopping- I mean mega shopping to fill the void she has inside her (like when people eat to fill that void)- do you know what I mean? He showed me pictures of clothes with tags on them piled 3-4-5 feet high. Did we laugh about it? NO. He felt bad and sad that nothing he has done for her makes her happy. I tried to explain that this type of behavior is not healthly and she is probably depressed to some degree. He has tried to get her into therapy again and she refuses to go. He feels like a failure, that he hasn't been able to get her to come around.
And to clarify- I did not (nor did he) say she was a mean person. He actually said she's a nice person that he just isn't attracted to or wants to be around any longer.
They tried counseling together and each of them alone about 15 years ago and did that for about 2 years. That didn't work.
Just so you know he has told me things over the years he is not proud of that he did in his marriage (which then prompted the counseling). He used to drink a lot- he was never abusive to her, just liked to party a lot and she partook also. The psychiatrist determined that he wasn't an alcoholic yet, but if he didn't stop or slow down he would become one. He stopped cold turkey and doesn't drink now. He has planned cruises for them and has tried to work things out. She still drinks just not as much.
I would never want the drama associated with calling his wife. That road isn't for me. And right now at this moment I am not prepared to give him an ultimatum.
And yes I do wonder how he lives so miserably. I have come right out and asked him. "Even if you weren't involved with me (this is what I said) don't you think you'd be living a happier life? And I also asked him how he could stay with someone he feels nothing for". His response has been that this is all he's known for 33 years.
I know this isn't a good situation for me.
But I'm just not ready to give an ultimatum, yet.
They They They --- how do you know what "they" decided? Because he told you? How do you know she has a void to fill? Did she tell you?
Be very careful with what a lying cheater tells you ---
He has told you things over the years???....... I thought you met him 5 months ago??
Fooled once-
I don't think he will "all of a sudden" divorce his wife for me. They have discussed how miserable they both are and if they should divorce 10-15 years ago. I think if he does follow through with divorcing her it isn't going to be for me- it will be for himself.
Ay yi yi.
They discussed it 15 years ago! And didn't file?
It ain't happening darling. He's going exactly nowhere.
He will keep the comfort of the W and the excitement you provide. Sorry, you'll NEVER be more than you are now.
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I tried to explain that this type of behavior is not healthly and she is probably depressed to some degree. He has tried to get her into therapy again and she refuses to go. He feels like a failure, that he hasn't been able to get her to come around.
Uh...so much for not caring or ships in the night. Look, he feels like a failure for a reason...think on it would ya'?
Quote:
And to clarify- I did not (nor did he) say she was a mean person. He actually said she's a nice person that he just isn't attracted to or wants to be around any longer.
How much you wanna bet they discussed that 15 years ago?
Actually, why DIDN'T they file back then?
Quote:
They tried counseling together and each of them alone about 15 years ago and did that for about 2 years. That didn't work.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. What didn't work? The MC? The IC? Why? Why was he in IC and why did he quit?
Quote:
Just so you know he has told me things over the years he is not proud of that he did in his marriage (which then prompted the counseling). He used to drink a lot- he was never abusive to her, just liked to party a lot and she partook also. The psychiatrist determined that he wasn't an alcoholic yet, but if he didn't stop or slow down he would become one. He stopped cold turkey and doesn't drink now. He has planned cruises for them and has tried to work things out. She still drinks just not as much.
Oh...next time I'll read then reply and not reply while reading...but I'm too lazy to start this post over.
When was he last trying to work things out again? Recently?
I hope not...as this would contradict his story about "not caring"....
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I would never want the drama associated with calling his wife. That road isn't for me.
What drama? If the M is dead and niether has any love for the other (ships in the night)...why would his W care? Why would HE care?
Seems like they wouldn't IF his words were true....especially after all these years...
Quote:
And yes I do wonder how he lives so miserably. I have come right out and asked him. "Even if you weren't involved with me (this is what I said) don't you think you'd be living a happier life? And I also asked him how he could stay with someone he feels nothing for". His response has been that this is all he's known for 33 years.
I highly doubt this. Sorry, but people go to MC and IC to try and salvage feelings and M. Implying it WAS good at one point...so that would mean 15 years, not 33. If your MM said 33 years...he's lying. Because had the M died THEN he would say 15 years. But he didn't...he said 33. And it wasn't ALL bad from day one. About 18 years in...they went. Before that...all roses I'm sure. I might be reading too much into...but I would think he would recall when the M died and count from there. I know in my personal case that's how I count...from when I felt the M dead (I somehow managed to D my now xW...I wanted it...that's how).
Quote:
I know this isn't a good situation for me.
WE all know. And listen, er read, the various perspectives. For me, I am passionately ANTI-MM and ANTI-MW. And I know SOME do work out...but they are few and far between. To me, your MM isn't going anywhere...he has no reason to leave. (sorry)
I am at least happy you managed to smile and laugh at my ocean front property bit...
Think darling...think.
JW
__________________
"The future is not some place we are going to, but one we are creating. The paths are not to be found, but made, and the activity of making them, changes both the maker and the destination."
Assuming for the moment that his story is true (we may as well it doesnt change the outcome)
lets look at why perhaps he hasnt left.
He has freedom.
He doesnt believe the grass is greener.
He doesnt need to split assets.
If he is "underemployed" (apologies for not going back and reading the details) then potentially, hed have to work harder if he left.
he likes their life even if he feels frustrated that his W isnt participating with him the way hed like her to. EVEN if he wishes she were more like you.
Is it impossible that he will leave? No. Its not impossible.
It is possible that now that he (as one friend put it) has basked in the sun, he wont be able to go back to living without the sun.
But he will only figure that out if you end the A.
So long as he has both, there is no great need for him to leave, other than the stress of living 2 lives. And even if she doesnt care its still stressful because she may not care in theory but if she knew he was in love with you that is different than just having a little tryst to fill in the gaps. It blows apart the whole its just for sex angle.
It is possible for someone to divorce after all those years. Sometimes people slow down and are spending more time with their spouse than they have in years and say OMG this is NOT what I signed up for. People have changed or not changed together. I read somewhere that the 60s set is the set divorcing most in certain countries.
and indeed xMM who is close in age to your guy said that his friends were now after all these years suddenly divorcing more than ever before. They look ahead and think life is short and they want more from their relationships than to settle as they have been doing for years.
So yes its possible.
But I am a firm believer that if someone doesnt jump fast then the only way to see if they will leave is to end the A.
Its not a manipulation if you dont want to be the OW.
It means that either he will say ciao its been great wish you would stay longer but I cant leave.
Or he will live without you and decide that his marriage has been dead for years, what is he doing there and its time to make a change, regardless of the disruption to his life.
Thank you for taking the time to write a "softer" response - I am hurting right now. I didn't expect to feel this upset and confused. My head is spinning and I took 2 valiums about a half hour ago so I am calming down.
I am going back to work tomorrow after 8 weeks off for medical leave- which was hard enough for me to deal with, which I am not looking forward to.
I wish you had a crystal ball too.
I just can't imagine my life without him- at least not yet anyway. I don't know what to do.
Sometimes I think that if he doesn't divorce his wife he won't end the A- he'll make me do the dirty work and leave him so he can justify why we aren't seeing each other. He'll think well she left me. I don't know.
I don't know anything anymore. Except, of course that I am going back to work tomorrow, and at least that will get me out of the house and around other people and get him off my mind.
I think if he does follow through with divorcing her it isn't going to be for me- it will be for himself.
Gosh, this is exactly what I told my MM in the beginning. That if he left her, it would be for him, and not for me/us. Eventually that changed and I wanted him to leave not only for himself, because it was the right thing to do, but also because I could not physically take being the OW for a second longer. I began to feel like he was cheating on me! How crazy is that? I guess I felt like his heart was so with mine, that his physical distance of going home to her at night was so out of place - it simply didnt make sense.
I really want things to work out for you, DiDi. But, I think you need to be prepared and braced for very few of these things to actually resolve well for the OW. Im like you, by the way, 44, never married, no kids. I wasnt looking for the affair - it "happened". But, Im lucky it was only a few months, and that I didnt spend years waiting for him to leave her. I also want marriage and commitment, and if you really want these things, you need to figure out how much time your going to give your MM to make a change. Because each day you spend with him and he doesnt leave her, means one less day with the man your really meant to be with.
Why NOT give an ultimatum? It's not "too soon", he's married!
What's wrong with telling this man "I am not comfortable with having a relationship with a married man, so if you want to continue to see me, you will have to choose, me or your wife."
If he doesn't respect you enough to honor your wishes, then good riddance.
From what's been posted, they are both unhappy (the shopping, stepmom did that ALOT).
But the only way he is divorcing her, is if SHE initiates it. Kids or no kids.
He has no excuse for staying if he is so miserable. It will come down to money and the fact that she gives him his freedom. You're already complaining about not hearing from him for three days. I bet his W never does that. Isn't it funny that he complains about lacking a connection with her, but does the opposite of what it takes to get one? If he wanted connection, he would have called you or texted you or something before three days passed.
Honestly, I think this one is just a serial cheat. He might even have a child or two out there from one of his previous OWs.
Not trying to upset you, but you should be careful with this one. You haven't known him long enough to know the real deal concerning him or his marriage.
__________________ "Don't tear down a fence until you know why it was put up." ~ African proverb
From what's been posted, they are both unhappy (the shopping, stepmom did that ALOT).
But the only way he is divorcing her, is if SHE initiates it. Kids or no kids.
He has no excuse for staying if he is so miserable. It will come down to money and the fact that she gives him his freedom. You're already complaining about not hearing from him for three days. I bet his W never does that. Isn't it funny that he complains about lacking a connection with her, but does the opposite of what it takes to get one? If he wanted connection, he would have called you or texted you or something before three days passed.
Honestly, I think this one is just a serial cheat. He might even have a child or two out there from one of his previous OWs.
Not trying to upset you, but you should be careful with this one. You haven't known him long enough to know the real deal concerning him or his marriage.
This is gold.
Look right now he has money and freedom and long time connection in his life, probably life long couple friends, family and so forth. His life is set up pretty perfectly. He can run to his wife for emotional support whenever he wants to. She'll probably be there when he gets ill and older.
Right now, he can work only 4 months a year and bang someone on the side as he needs too. Gah. I'd want his wife too!
You may be very good looking and younger but you are more emotionally needy comparatively. If he wanted an intense daily relationship I believe he would have left to find one long ago.
I don't see anything here to suggest that he is all that into you. He is not making much effort to hang on to you. I would be very surprised if he responded to an ultimatum with any positive action. Why should he move toward more work? He is NOT doing that now. He is not calling you, arranging things more than a quick date and a spot of fun.
15 years younger, former model with intelligence. You are a great ego booster for him. But if he left his wife and came to live with you he'd have to work to keep you (be there, call, think about you, bring you flowers, listen etc) and worry about you leaving him (he's going to be 70 when you are a fit and fabulous 55).
The man who semi-retires at 51, works 1/3 of the year and golfs the rest is all about the fun.
I think you are very lonely and he filled that need. I hope you give him the ultimatum and use him as a "rebound" type relationship to work out what vibe you are giving off so you can find that soul mate. Maybe a professional matchmaker could give you hints?
You talk about the superficial things you have to give a guy, looks, degrees but what about the deeper things? Do you come off as uninterested? High maintenance? Are you easygoing? His wife is. In spades apparently.
HoldingOn,
Your right about a few things.
Yes I am lonely.
As for myself, I actually haven't really dated in years. I don't go to bars, and live a pretty quiet life. I'm not high maintenance - at least I don't think so. I'm more of a naturally beautiful person (not to sound obnoxious- just to make sure you understand I don't wear a lot of makeup or create any fuss if I break a nail).
I can be ready in 10 minutes- jeans and tee-shirt or dress & heels if need be. I don't even carry a purse to work anymore- just grab a knapsack/bottle of h20/granola bar/apple and go. SAturday nights I spend with my 93 year old grandmother- I cook several things so she has food for the week. I read, go to the gym and when preparing my home to move into did mostly everything myself. *Word to anyone looking to tile 500 square feet, lol....it's back breaking but so worth it!! The guy took off with my deposit so what did I do- cry? NOPE! I went out and bought a few books on tiling and a wetsaw and did it myself! even the really neat polished stone design I wanted I did myself- each one put in by hand. My point is that I am not helpless and have taken care of myself for so long maybe I don't know how to be in a relationship?
You are also right about me being more emotionally needy. I know it, I am. Is that a bad thing? If I have to ask it probably is, huh? I am book smart- but common sense when it comes to men? I don't think I have those brain cells in me apparently.
And yes he teases me about being a "full-time" job.....I think that mainly occured after my surgery when he was taking care of me everyday with my parents. And I have thought about that age difference- but I didn't believe him when he told me his age because he looks like he's in his late 40's (maybe he thinks he is too! lol) Sorry had in inject some humor.....but I made him show me his drivers license!
And yes he is all about doing what makes him happy in terms of work and golf, and boating. Don't forget- he worked hard for 33 years. I also grew up with boat- Dad still has his and so if you know anything about boating its very casual, relaxing - pretty much camping on the water. Simple. I know some people have very large luxurious boats but that's not us- I'm talking about 36-38'
And yes as much as I am ashamed to admit this maybe this is some type of "rebound" relationship to get me over the hump that I think that no one wants me. Yes I know self-esteem issues.
One big problem I picked up on years ago were the dates I was going on the men were so ga-ga over my "physical" appearance that they either just wanted sex or were the type that just kept saying things like "I can't believe I'm out with you", wow you are so hot- crap that really turns me off. I wanted so scream at them- talk to me, go to a concert in the park with me, see a play, something......
I tend to wear conservative clothing- no short skirts or skimpy tops, because I don't want or need that type of attention. I am a very simple person who really likes to do for others because it makes me feel better (I feel worthy). Its nothing for me to whip out my hand cranked pasta machine and make fresh pasta like I did with my grandmother so many years ago. Its so much fresher and healthier for you anyway. So, I don't need to be wined and dined. I don't need or want lots of jewelry. Don't get me wrong I have a few beautiful pieces that I cherish but it just doesn't mean that much to me. I'd rather have a few nice pieces than a bunch of costume jewelry. That's just me. And yes I do get my nails done- but once a month or once every 2 months.
And yes I have a mercedes-S320, BUT its been paid off for 5 years and is a 1995 and looks immaculate (because I wash and wax it regularly). I actually would love to get rid of it and get a prius, but I can't afford a car payment right now, or maybe I just don't want one. I hate bills. I have no debt except my mortgage. I just live with what I need.
*Oh and his wife is big-time high maintenance- not that that is a bad thing- just not my cup of tea.
Holding on- Can you offer any other insight- your post was particularily helpful and I am trying to be as honest as possible.
Isn't it funny that he complains about lacking a connection with her, but does the opposite of what it takes to get one? If he wanted connection, he would have called you or texted you or something before three days passed.
This is great stuff and really resonates with me and my situation. My MM complains about how he and the W have drifted apart, yet when it came to he and I getting closer and him moving in, he started alienating me and pulling back.
Great quote and really has a lot of traction. Thank you, No.
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