[Ronni_W]

I could always give it another try, and if it doesnt work out, I could always go back to the single lifestyle, no? I mean, I still have time. 21 years old is not that old.

OUCH! Seriously, that one pained me to read. Well, pained me on behalf of your ex-girlfriend. Joe, can you even begin to see how little you care about her emotional health and well-being?

Imagine if someone was thinking in those terms, about you. "Ah, wtf - it's just Joe. I can always go back to him anytime. And if that doesn't work out I'll just dump his ass AGAIN. Who cares about Joe, and his feelings, and his personal wants and needs? I still have time to feck around with his heart. I'm not that old."

I would hate if someone thought like that about you, Joe. It would make me sad. I would feel obligated to defend you against that.


I know I'm in charge of my thoughts, but like, when I'm sad, II can't just decide to be happy instead.

If you heard, "When you're sad just decide to be happy instead," then I did an extremely piss-poor job of talking about taking responsibility for one's own feelings and thoughts, and it's highly unlikely that I'm going to do a better job if I try again. Might I suggest you try this free online book on 'emotional intelligence' instead: http://eqi.org/eqe96_1.htm

Well, no. I believe the woman in the relationship has to not only care for her man's emotional and sexual needs, but to also cook, clean, and make sure he's completely happy with her.

Good one...you are tooo funny! But do you kinda see how your attitude of, "I'll just dick her around as I see fit" kind of DOES support this 'humourous' view much more than it does not?

I always knew that both people in a relationship have to work at making it work. I don't know, maybe somewhere along the way I forgot that. Maybe I got too comfortable.

I'm not talking about the past. I'm talking about currently...today! It was TODAY that you typed, basically, ""I'll just go back-and-forth with her heart until I've satisfied all my own yearnings and desires."
You didn't even give one thought to how such actions on your part might impact/negatively affect (HURT!) her. You didn't, because if you had, you could not have left that sentence on the 'page'.

In the past, yes, you had the joint responsibility to keep your relationship positive, fun and growth-inspiring. You also failed yourself by arriving at your own conclusions instead of discussing/hearing her side. (I'm thinking of what you thought she'd think if you went clubbing with your mates once in a while.) You decided for her what she would think -- and that is a "highly flawed" thing to do in any relationship.

It's just that the lifestyle of a 'playboy' is very appealing to me. The partying, the not caring, the being happy, the girls, the herpes . I know I'm stupid though, which is why it's almost like an internal struggle with myself.

You know, if there is only one thing that you are NOT, it is "stupid". You are not stupid! But yes, it is EXACTLY an internal struggle that is going on. Every big life decision is accompanied by one of those...and all the little decisions, as well, we just don't pay so much attention to them. Beer or a martini? That's an internal struggle that we don't even notice as such. It is not "stupid"...it is LIFE!

I know that you keep thinking-saying that having the freedom to not care about the girls with herpes is going to make you happy. But. In the 5 months since you've been broken up...how much of the "being happy" have you actually experienced, Joe?

What if your IDEAS about that 'playboy lifestyle' are "highly flawed"? What if your beliefs and perceptions about it are inaccurate, misguided, incomplete or just plain wrong?
I mean, are you also brainstorming from that angle? - assessing the evidence that you've collected in the past 5 months and trying to figure out if there is any highly flawed logic in your old beliefs and thought patterns?

[joemax]

Joe, can you even begin to see how little you care about her emotional health and well-being?

Ok, the way I put it sounded really bad. I do care about her. I've envisioned my life in the future with her. She's always in a good mood, no matter what. I want that around me for a long time to come. It's just that I'm trying so hard to be happy, I guess that blinds my judgment sometimes. Scratch that, it blinds my judgment a LOT of the time.




But do you kinda see how your attitude of, "I'll just dick her around as I see fit" kind of DOES support this 'humourous' view much more than it does not?

Yes. Have I mentioned that I don't like myself? Ok that's a lie. I like myself, I just don't like myself when I think like that.



In the 5 months since you've been broken up...how much of the "being happy" have you actually experienced, Joe?

Tough question. I was happy. I was happy with the way people viewed me. I was happy being careless, being able to do whatever I wanted. I wasn't happy being alone at night. I wasn't happy missing her. I still wanted to spend time with her.




What if your IDEAS about that 'playboy lifestyle' are "highly flawed"? What if your beliefs and perceptions about it are inaccurate, misguided, incomplete or just plain wrong?

What do you mean?


What I do know is that I think she has feelings for that guy. She wouldn't have kissed him if she didn't. And I don't know if I can be with someone who has feelings for someone else. Then again, I shouldn't even be passing judgment on what she did. I'm not in that position. I'm just talking.

I wish I was smarter in our relationship. I did always pick her up late from work. I woke up early to drive her the places she needed to be. I tried, but I guess my attempts were in the wrong place.

[Ronni_W]

[your attitude of, "I'll just dick her around as I see fit"]
Have I mentioned that I don't like myself? Ok that's a lie. I like myself, I just don't like myself when I think like that.

Well, like I said earlier. You are in charge of your own thoughts...which also makes you the ONLY person who can control/stop yourself from thinking in ways that make you dislike yourself.
But. You went for the "I'm powerless to change it but wish I could" victim mentality instead, remember?

I do care about her. I've envisioned my life in the future with her. She's always in a good mood, no matter what. I want that around me for a long time to come.

Yep. I get that you care a great deal about what she can GIVE to you and CONTRIBUTE to your life, as far as you feeling happy, content, loved, secure, safe, accepted, respected, admired, wanted, etc., etc.
But I don't really get that you think too much about what YOU can give and contribute to her feelings of happiness, security, safety, etc.

It's just that I'm trying so hard to be happy, I guess that blinds my judgment ... a LOT of the time.

That's just more BS, Joe; more "highly flawed logic". You're telling yourself that it is okay to act self-centred/narcissistic, and to not worry about how your attitudes, words and actions can hurt others...as long as you are in pursuit of your own happiness. It's a crap cop-out for acting inconsiderately. You ARE responsible for, and do have to also consider, the potential impact (negative as well as positive) that your words and actions could have.

If you're not considering it; if you are just excusing it, then you are not genuinely caring about her (or anyone, or anything else.)


[In the 5 months...how much of the "being happy" have you actually experienced]
I was happy. I was happy with the way people viewed me. I was happy being careless, being able to do whatever I wanted.

Then you need to stay single, IMO [because] that is what is making you happy and you do deserve to be as happy as possible. The aspects that you dislike are just the price of admission into the 'playboy lifestyle'.
There is ALWAYS a cost, ALWAYS a trade-off. That is Life. You cannot expect to be able to have and enjoy the benefits of being both a playboy and, concurrently, a non-playboy.


[What if your IDEAS about that 'playboy lifestyle' are "highly flawed"?]
What do you mean?

No, it's fine. Living that lifestyle makes you feel happy (see above), so that would indicate that your beliefs about it were/are accurate for what you most want out of life at this stage.

I wish I was smarter in our relationship. I did always pick her up late from work. I woke up early to drive her the places she needed to be. I tried, but I guess my attempts were in the wrong place.

Yeah...no. That's all just coming from an "I'm so helpless and powerless but I tried so hard but I guess it wasn't enough" victim mentality, too.
Boo-hoo...here's a tissue.

I do feel your pain and confusion. And I appreciate that you have been struggling and doing your damndest best to learn, grown and make wise choices. And I admire and respect how much you've put into it. And I see you as powerful in your own life. I cannot, in good conscious, walk down 'Victim Avenue' with you. Can't, won't. Fair enough?

Hugs, Joe. I know these are difficult things to have to get clear on, and tough, self-defining decisions that you're in process of making.

[joemax]

But. You went for the "I'm powerless to change it but wish I could" victim mentality instead, remember?

No, I didn't. But learning to control my thoughts and emotions isn't something I can learn overnight, but I'm slowly and steadily learning to at least affect them in a way that will impact me positively.



But I don't really get that you think too much about what YOU can give and contribute to her feelings of happiness, security, safety, etc.

I do care about her feelings. Seeing her cry doesn't exactly make me happy. I pick her up from work so she doesn't have to take the bus in the cold. I walk her to school so she doesn't have to walk alone at night. I like to think that I did make her happy in the 2 years and a half we were together.


You're telling yourself that it is okay to act self-centred/narcissistic, and to not worry about how your attitudes, words and actions can hurt others...as long as you are in pursuit of your own happiness.

It's not like I do it on purpose. Whenever we're together, I do try to make her happy. I like to think my company makes her happy just like her company makes me happy.

What I'm trying to figure out is why it's killing me that she's at work right now. Is it cause I know that guy is also there and I'm jealous? Is it 'cause I'm scared of losing her? sMaybe it's like you said, I still have feelings about her? Maybe it's 'cause I still love her? I'm trying to figure it out.

[brokenrightnow]

Joereading your emails-- you are just like my ex-boygfrined/boyfriend.I dont even know what he is anymore. He loves me. He would give his life for me. He can't live without me.Yet...he is not happy with me. It is driving me crazy!!! It hurts Joe, what you are doing is awful. I am hurting, your poor girl is hurting. I am sure she is masking her pain, telling you she is OK, because she is just tired of telling you she is not OK...she is only saying it because she is tired of the drama. Lying to you, just to make it easier for you. at the end it is pointless, you are only being selfish.I know her pain, i am feeling it now. being in love with a man that is not HAPPY WITH HIMSELF! she is not the problem - it is you! your emotional instability. Seek help, find the root of the problem because I promise you, it is in there somewhere. If you love her, man up and make it work. Work at it. Make her smile, make her laugh, make her proud of having you in her life. don't kill her with your pathetic attempt at trying to figure this crap out. Because you are not figuring anything out sitting here infront of the computer. Go out and buy her flowers, book a trip to the city acroos town. make her breakfast. Do something FOR HER! and see how that makes you feel, if her smile doesn't trap you and make your feet come off the ground, then that is your answer-- you are not in love with her and you never were.

[Ronni_W]

Originally Posted by joemax

I do care about her feelings.
It's not like I do it on purpose.
What I'm trying to figure out is...

Joe,
I'm thinking that, after you respond to brokenrightnow's post, maybe it'll give us something new to work with. At least, with any luck it'll do that.

brokenrightnow, thank you for sharing -- I'm sure that it will help Joe so that he does not continue to hurt his ex-girlfriend as your ex is doing to you. I'm sorry that you're hurting.

Hugs to you both.