Would it make any difference if MM is already cheating on his W?

[Adunaphel]

Hello to all,

 

I've been away from Loveshack for quite a while, and this is my very first post in the OW forum. (Not exactly proud of it).

 

I have a question for anyone who would be so kind to give me his/her opinion.

 

I have been browsing this forum for quite a while but I was not able to find any threads where a similar subject was under discussion, if anyone posted in such threads and could direct me to the webpages, I'd be delighted.

 

 

Agreed that having sex with a MM is morally wrong,

 

(or kissing, or having a certain kind of physical contact, or engaging in a certain kind of conversations with a MM)

 

do you think that it would it make any difference -morally speaking- if the MM were already cheating on his wife, and would cheat on her with (a number of) other women anyway?

 

Thanks in advance.

[HokeyReligions]

It wouldn't make any difference to me. I don't respect cheaters and don't want be involved with one - doesn't matter who or how many. Wrong is wrong.

[mopar crazy]

It wouldn't make any difference to me. I don't respect cheaters and don't want be involved with one - doesn't matter who or how many. Wrong is wrong.

 

I have to agree, sorry.

 

I was the OW to a man in a CR (he M her shortly after I ended it) when I was younger. He was sleeping w/ several different woman, not only me, so I figured there was nothing wrong w/ it. Well, I was wrong. It doesn't matter if the MM is having an A w/ hundreds of women, it's still wrong if you have an A w/ him b/c he is M. He is the one that is wrong for doing it, don't be a part of it.

[Adunaphel]

Thank you very much for your input and for sharing your point of view.

 

I'm trying to convince myself that sleeping with a married guy would be an extremely bad idea, and that I should put an end to the "affair" we are having as soon as possible.

I have no idea wheter I'll end up sleeping with him or not. I hope I won't.

 

I asked the question above because if I found out, or got the idea, that the MM in question is not necessarily a serial cheater, but "just" a basically okay guy who is in a mid-life crisis (or whatever), has started to cheat on his wife not long ago, does not fully realize what he is doing and might be very sorry about it in future(even if he does not get caught!),

then it would be *a lot* easier for me to decide not to have sex with him.

 

(BTW, he's not exactly married...he has been living with his partner for 12 years and they have a 9 years old son. But I don't think it makes any difference -from an OW point of view, I mean)

 

I have another question(of the idiotic kind, probably)

 

Do you think is it possible to end an affair with a MM and stay friends (or act towards each other as if nothing had happened) afterwards?

Has it ever happened to anyone?

if it is possible, do you think it would be relevant whether you had sex or not?

 

Thanks again.

[whichwayisup]

(BTW, he's not exactly married...he has been living with his partner for 12 years and they have a 9 years old son. But I don't think it makes any difference -from an OW point of view, I mean)

 

Either way, that is a family unit. Common law married, living together and raising a child together.

 

You do have the control and strength inside you NOT to sleep with him. Just don't put yourself in a situation with him where you both can't say no or stop whatever from happening.

 

Maybe if enough time goes by, each of you DO NOT have any feelings or emotional attachment, sexual chemistry is gone - I guess it's possible to stay casual friends - But what would be the point? Think about it... In your situation I think it would be a case of false hope and would hold you back from ever opening your heart to someone else and taking that chance to be really happy with a man who is single and be into just you.

[loony]

I read some of your posts and I know you are smart, therefore I am quite surprised about this post.

 

I asked the question above because if I found out, or got the idea, that the MM in question is not necessarily a serial cheater, but "just" a basically okay guy who is in a mid-life crisis (or whatever), has started to cheat on his wife not long ago, does not fully realize what he is doing and might be very sorry about it in future(even if he does not get caught!),

then it would be *a lot* easier for me to decide not to have sex with him.

 

(BTW, he's not exactly married...he has been living with his partner for 12 years and they have a 9 years old son. But I don't think it makes any difference -from an OW point of view, I mean)

So what you are asking is, if sleeping with a serial cheater would be as bad as with someone who is just unhappy in his relationship?

 

a) Cheating is crappy, whether the guy is a serial cheater or not, because it is you who degrades herself to an unethical act.

 

b) He has a family. Have you thought about his kid? Do you think it will matter to this kid if the woman slept with his daddy did it because he was a serial cheater anyway?

 

c) If you are able to muse about it on the board you should certainly be able to hold yourself back from any kind of physical contact with this guy. You don't sound yet as if the hormones have taken over you, so it's still time to step on the brakes and get out of this situation.

 

I have another question(of the idiotic kind, probably)

Do you think is it possible to end an affair with a MM and stay friends (or act towards each other as if nothing had happened) afterwards?

That doesn't matter one iota. The affair is wrong and no sugarcoating will make it right. The only decent thing to do is to end it as soon as possible.

[brashgal]

(BTW, he's not exactly married...he has been living with his partner for 12 years and they have a 9 years old son. But I don't think it makes any difference -from an OW point of view, I mean)

 

One of the OW's threw this in my face when I confronted her about her affair with my ex - although we weren't legally married, I wondered what she thought we were doing together, playing house? Trust me, if they are raising a child together under the same roof, it is very much like a marriage.

 

I have another question(of the idiotic kind, probably)

 

Do you think is it possible to end an affair with a MM and stay friends (or act towards each other as if nothing had happened) afterwards?

Has it ever happened to anyone?

if it is possible, do you think it would be relevant whether you had sex or not?

 

Sounds like you'd have to continue to deal with this man either personally or professionally - are you still friends with all of your ex-boyfriends? I know very few people who are able to do this (my ex tries but usually the women can't be friends) - you may be able to treat him like a friend afterward but he may not be able to.

 

Hoping you'll reconsider Adunaphel, I think you'd be headed for heartache - you deserve better.

[elmejor]

b) He has a family. Have you thought about his kid? Do you think it will matter to this kid if the woman slept with his daddy did it because he was a serial cheater anyway? I have another question(of the idiotic kind, probably)

That doesn't matter one iota. The affair is wrong and no sugarcoating will make it right. The only decent thing to do is to end it as soon as possible.

 

Just a couple of observations here: Parents have private lives separate from their children. In other words, it isn't for a nine-year-old to say whether his father has an affair with anyone....also, this OM is NOT married. Since marriage is SACRED (yeah, right) Also, it seems like a lot of posters around here take for granted the idea that a woman having a child with a man automatically means she should have control of this man for life. Nope, not true though it is wishful thinking for many women.

[HokeyReligions]

Just a couple of observations here: Parents have private lives separate from their children. In other words, it isn't for a nine-year-old to say whether his father has an affair with anyone....also, this OM is NOT married. Since marriage is SACRED (yeah, right) Also, it seems like a lot of posters around here take for granted the idea that a woman having a child with a man automatically means she should have control of this man for life. Nope, not true though it is wishful thinking for many women.

 

Separate lives? Bushwah! The child is involved no matter what. When you have a child that child is part of your life forever. Every decision one makes involves that child on some level. If one parent cheats there is going to be emotions involved that will diectly affect that child -- whether its because the parent is home an hour later than normal and misses an hour with that child, or the child hears the parents arguing or just picks up on some emotional distance or tension between the parents - that child is going to feel it.

 

No one has control over their partner -- married or not, but commitment is made when they live together or commit to a relationship. Once that trust is broken its damn difficult to get it back and often proves impossible. The piece of paper claiming "married" is for legalities - the commitment was made on an emotional level and a physical one when they agreed to share a household and a life.

 

I have no idea wheter I'll end up sleeping with him or not. I hope I won't.

 

You *hope* you won't? You have no idea? If you do its by YOUR CHOICE. You know what the right choice is and you know what to do. Sounds to me like you are having some difficulty justifying this to yourself because its a difficult decision and could be immediately hurtful to you. Sometimes the right thing hurts, but that's just the way life is. You have to live with yourself and your choices - the immediate and the future ramifications.

[reservoirdog1]

Well, it's probably somewhat different, actually. For one thing, the hypothetical woman in question is slobbering on the knob of an a**h*** who's recently been sticking it in a bunch of other women too.

 

YUMMMMMY!

 

[whyohwhy]

Adunaphel -

 

Gosh, I am so sorry to hear that you are even asking yourself this question. The moral issues are primary for me when I think about this for you. The real question is whether this potential r/s would be a good thing or a bad thing for you. And as a longtime LSer, I'm sure you've glanced at the OW/MM stories and realize how severely damaging they are - to the OW - in 99.94% of the cases.

 

Better to stick your hand down the garbage disposal than to have a r/s wtih a committed man.

 

Why not just spend your time having fun pursuing single men? Granted, there are risks of emtoional trauma, but they are NOTHING compared to the certainty of suffering when you "mix it up" with a MM.

 

So, don't.

[elmejor]

Separate lives? Bushwah! The child is involved no matter what. When you have a child that child is part of your life forever. Every decision one makes involves that child on some level. If one parent cheats there is going to be emotions involved that will diectly affect that child -- whether its because the parent is home an hour later than normal and misses an hour with that child, or the child hears the parents arguing or just picks up on some emotional distance or tension between the parents - that child is going to feel it...

No, children are not to be "involved" in their parents' personal affairs, IMO. And having a child with a man does not somehow guarantee that affairs will never happen. Motherhood does not turn a woman into the perfect wife, who need not ever worry about her spouse straying. Look around you. The "ideal" family is not common. We are not born into this world with a guarantee that both of our parents will remain together and faithful forever. It is rare, actually. And yes, if children hear their parents arguing they will feel it, like you said. But many here seem to think parents must remain together no matter what, when obviously that is not always best for the children, nor the parents.

[Adunaphel]

Thank you for all the replies!

 

Hokey,

You *hope* you won't? You have no idea? If you do its by YOUR CHOICE. You know what the right choice is and you know what to do. Sounds to me like you are having some difficulty justifying this to yourself because its a difficult decision and could be immediately hurtful to you. Sometimes the right thing hurts, but that's just the way life is. You have to live with yourself and your choices - the immediate and the future ramifications.

Obviously, what I meant is:

I still have no idea wheter I will _choose_ not to sleep with him or not.

I hope that I will be strong and determined enough to *choose* not to sleep with him and to put an end to the situation.

If i had already chosen to sleep with him, I wouldn't be here.

If I gave the impression to be looking for any kind of justifications or for any "it's okay, go ahead" sort of answer, I wish to make it clear that I did not have such a purpose.

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About the MM in question being not exactly married,

please do not think for a moment that I'd consider such a situation anything less than a marriage.

I actually think that in such a case, cheating is even worse.

--------------------------------------------------

Brashgal,

Sounds like you'd have to continue to deal with this man either personally or professionally - are you still friends with all of your ex-boyfriends? I know very few people who are able to do this (my ex tries but usually the women can't be friends) - you may be able to treat him like a friend afterward but he may not be able to.

I actually don't have to continue to deal with him.

It's mere selfishness on my part.

I'd find it much easier to put an end to our affair if I knew that I might still hear from him sometimes, or have some conversation with him when we meet either online (I did not get to know him on the internet, but we often hang around in the same website) or in person.

I wish I had known he was married before we started flirting with each other, I got to know it only after letting him know that I was very attracted to him.

My fault that it didn't occur to me to ask him (or anyone else) wheter he was single - I probably just assumed that if he was flirting with me or other women, he must be.

I knew he had a son, but single men who have children are not unheard of.

If we had never started to flirt with each other, perhaps we could have been friends.

It's very uncommon to meet people who are as sharp-brained as him.

Apart from being extraordinarily intelligent, he is gifted with irony and sense of humor and he is an extremely pleasant person to talk with.

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whyohwhy

The real question is whether this potential r/s would be a good thing or a bad thing for you. And as a longtime LSer, I'm sure you've glanced at the OW/MM stories and realize how severely damaging they are - to the OW - in 99.94% of the cases.

It surely would be a bad thing.

It would probably be a bad thing even if he was single.

I don't think I could have an actual relationship with him anyway.

If I have sex with him, it is very likely that I'll end up in pieces.

If I don't, I'll end up hurt anyway, even if not to that extent.

Yet, the main reason that has prevented me for sleeping with him so far is that he has a wife and a kid.

Which might sound hypocrital, since the fact that he is married did not prevent me from spending a whole evening snogging him on a single occasion.

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loony

b) He has a family. Have you thought about his kid? Do you think it will matter to this kid if the woman slept with his daddy did it because he was a serial cheater anyway?

I have thought about his kid, yes.

I'm repeating to myself that he has a kid.

About your other question, I'm clueless. No joking.

 

c) If you are able to muse about it on the board you should certainly be able to hold yourself back from any kind of physical contact with this guy. You don't sound yet as if the hormones have taken over you, so it's still time to step on the brakes and get out of this situation

 

actually, the hormones have already taken over me. I already had physical contact with him.

What I'd like to avoid is doing something worse (even if some people believe that kissing a married man is just as bad as sleeping with a married man, I do not second that line of thought).

 

I'd also like, possibly, to step out of the situation soon getting hurt as less as possible.

 

I think(or am I deluding myself?) that if I temporize for some time, keeping my eyes wide open all the time and repeating myself that i should not, the hormonal effect will sooner or later fade away.

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Whichwayisup,

 

You do have the control and strength inside you NOT to sleep with him. Just don't put yourself in a situation with him where you both can't say no or stop whatever from happening.

 

The day we kissed, I avoided to go anywhere with him where we would not be in sight of other people, and refused a ride home since I didn't think it would be wise to get in his car unless there was someone else with us.

 

It is likely that MM and I will see each other in a few days - at a common friend's birthday party. I will avoid to find myself anywhere with him if there are not other people present.

 

Maybe if enough time goes by, each of you DO NOT have any feelings or emotional attachment, sexual chemistry is gone - I guess it's possible to stay casual friends - But what would be the point? Think about it... In your situation I think it would be a case of false hope and would hold you back from ever opening your heart to someone else and taking that chance to be really happy with a man who is single and be into just you.

 

I am aware of how bad this sounds, but having him in my life for a little while, even just as a casual friend, would make my life a lot more interesting.

 

I'm trying to look around, anyway. The other day I went on a date -well, a kind of date, anyway. Useless, but at least I tried.

I'm trying to get interested in someone else. I don't need to get seriously interested in someone else, anything that might take my interest away from MM would do.

 

I'm also flirting a little with a couple of guys whom I was infatuated with some time ago... I would head for some serious heartache if I got feelings again for them, but since they are probably the only two people I might get interested in enough to forget MM...well, if I get feelings again for either of them, the better.

 

 

Thanks again for taking the time to share with me your points of views.

[whichwayisup]

You're welcome! And yeah, just enjoy going on dates. Get into the habit of spending time, FUN time with other men. It doesn't have to be sexual or even that serious, but just knowing that you "have it" is good for your own ego building. I think you need alot of positive feelings in you if and when the time comes to let go of MM.

[My_Other_I]

It won't make a difference to him. Would it make a difference to you though? Do you want to be just another sheep in his hurd?

You need to ask yourself that question - how do YOU feel about it.

[Astarte]

So you consider it as morally wrong to cheat but you seriously think about it being better when he already screwed a few others at the same time ? Maybe even without protection ?

Wow...you should consider yourself as more valuable...talking about just another sheep in the hurd.

[Sami_D]

Hello Adunaphel. The way you're talking about this I think you're unlikely to get in and out of this unscathed in some way. It's up to you whether you want to put yourself through the mill for the sake of whatever you will get out of this.

 

I think you're approaching it from an intellectual point of view at the moment... but there are lots of signs (from what you've written) that you're getting hooked emotionally and physically. And that is going to mean pain later.

[Adunaphel]

WWIU, my other I, Astarte, Sami_D,

thank you for your posts.

 

I'm sorry about not having replied before,

I will reply properly either today or in a couple of days.

 

Two weeks ago, when I saw MM again, I actually had sex with him (oral sex).

It has been a rather unpleasant experience-and I found the situation a quite unpleasant one too.

I feel that I have been treated like a slut.

(yes, I know, I deserved it, that is what happens to people who pursue married men, serves me right, blah, blah, blah.

I just thought I'd say it before someone else does.

Anyway, a part of me actually feels that I deserved it.

But I'd rather not go into this.)

Also, I feel that he is "disappearing", and it's only a question of time (and I'm speaking about *little* time before I stop hearing from him at all.

 

It took me so long to post again in this thread because I could not bring myself to write about it(it's easier now that the memory is a little more stale, and I can think about it a little more clearly), and because I felt that I could not have handled some replies I might have got.

 

I guess I will write more about it later.

 

I would really love to understand a few things about this one MM, and about what happened.

I guess I'll post a couple of questions in other loveshack forums, asking for point of views.

 

Also, I should really ask myself a few *much more important* questions, too.

 

Have all a great day.

[Astarte]

....

I feel that I have been treated like a slut.

(yes, I know, I deserved it, that is what happens to people who pursue married men, serves me right, blah, blah, blah.

I just thought I'd say it before someone else does.

Anyway, a part of me actually feels that I deserved it.

But I'd rather not go into this.)

 

....

 

CRAP !! Well, in my eyes.

I don't judge you.

I so often read here It's morally wrong to cheat or Never get involved with a MM - Moral is an highly individual thing and no one should oppress someone else with his individual idea of moral, and getting involved with a MM - well the one being able to switch feelings on and off like a light-bulb raise the hands as I consider you as really exotic and will be happy not to be like you.

What I want to say, Adunaphel, do what you personally feel well with.

If you wanna go on with him, do it, but be aware of the consequences.

If you don't, try to get out.

Whichever decision you make - I wish you luck !

[Sami_D]

I feel that I have been treated like a slut.

 

But didn't you go into this with your eyes open, choosing to do this?

 

Perhaps you could state 'I acted like a slut' (if that's how you want to see having sex with him). But at least that puts the emphasis back on your conscious decision.

 

I get the feeling from your posts that you are feeling somewhat self-destructive and deliberately heading for hurt for some reason. Maybe that's the thing you talk about having to address..?

 

Best of luck, and don't beat yourself up about all this.

[Craig]

do you think that it would it make any difference -morally speaking- if the MM were already cheating on his wife, and would cheat on her with (a number of) other women anyway?

Yes, it's all about who you are.