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A MM's story - really resonated with me


The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

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Old 29th July 2017, 10:03 AM   #16
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Even though he says his kids are his life and to have joint custody would be like giving up half of himself and he would be miserable? If someone derives all they need from their kids then couldn't that be a valid reason to stay? Especially if he doesn't love me any more than his W.

He does also love his W too. He's told me that. I love you and I love her.
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Old 29th July 2017, 10:09 AM   #17
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OP, do you and the BS have the ability to cross-check or is his past affair with you still dark and/or without means of independent contact?

I ask because some men, both in the past, and now, have open and conspicuous relations. IME, more so in the past before the lawyers got hold of the divorce system but some still do. If so, ostensible honesty, or dishonesty, can be easily and independently verified.

If he's dark, and most MW's I've been around in life ran dark affairs (can't speak to MM's), then little to nothing is verifiable and hence subject to belief and trust. Those are personal. We all believe and trust in our own way.

Here's a test, one I tried in the past. Do you know a MM that you don't desire nor love nor are attached to? If you do, when he's sharing his stuff, do you believe him or are skeptical? That isn't a test of him rather one of your own psyche and methods of attachment.

This kind of stuff reminds me of a dear female friend, also a MW (not with me) it turned out, who drank herself to an early demise. She was smart, well-liked and successful but just couldn't reconcile the bottle. I'm confident that she didn't want to drink herself to death, having a wonderful husband and son and a lot to live for. Yet, there was stuff in there. Like this MM, she compartmentalized and, yeah people, including myself, believed her. The question I asked myself after her death was would I have believed her and trusted her if I hadn't loved her. Did that love cloud the reality? Did that attachment impute trust where skepticism would have been healthier? IDK.

What I've noticed growing out of the reproductive stage of life is that I can love people without wanting 'more'. Enjoy the now without expectations of any future. Death and divorce taught me a lot about that. Before, the 'more' was nothing more than mating and reproduction drives calling. I've noticed the same thing with women my age. They're fine with being single and unattached. I didn't quite get that, being too young, when my mom was widowed and men came around and she stated she had had her man and she was done with men and, yeah, she was, living alone until dead. It didn't make sense then but does now.

I trust and have every confidence that you'll find your own path. Remember, you control your own choices completely. No one can take that from you. It's up to you.
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Old 29th July 2017, 10:13 AM   #18
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So you sacrifice yourself, just so that he can have it all, sounds like a great plan.
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Old 29th July 2017, 10:22 AM   #19
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I don't think the "if he loved you he would leave immediately" thing is necessarily true. We can easily find famous cases where the affair dragged on a while because of outside pressure before finally the loving couple got together.

But the key is, does he really want to be with you in the way that you want him to?

It seems like he definitely wants to have you as a girlfriend. He enjoys your company and your affections. Is that love? People's answers are going to vary. I don't think it's useful to get into an argument over whether it is or isn't, because in the end it doesn't make much difference.

It seems like what he's telling you is that, affection or no affection, he doesn't want to leave his wife. He doesn't want to leave his kids. He doesn't want to give up any proportion of their time, or share them with anybody, no matter what. It's not that he's afraid to hurt her or them by leaving, he straightforward doesn't want to leave them or share them.

If that's the case, then it seems like the best you could ever hope for would be to be the acknowledged mistress, if his wife was okay with him having one.

But would that be enough for you? THAT is the decision that matters, in my opinion. Not "does he love you" but "are you okay with this life"?

It does seem selfish if he thinks it's okay for HIS affection to be shared (with both his wife and you) but he won't allow THEIR affection to be shared (objecting strongly to the idea of his wife someday finding someone else, and the kids being away some of the time).
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Old 29th July 2017, 10:23 AM   #20
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That's a good point. OP, do you feel like you're sacrificing yourself at the altar of a particular human? Does it feel that way to you? Do you have a history of similar relations, not necessarily with MM but in general, sacrificing your own needs and desires or subjugating them to others?

My last tidbit comes from a long-time MW, one I've termed a 'pro'. Being successful at this takes skill and the ability to believe that 'all is fair in love and war' and operate on that premise where the goal supersedes all other parameters; where pragmatism rules.

My instinct is, if you're here pondering this and analyzing it, you're likely not a pro. That may not be an issue if the guy is a good match but if he's a pro he'll eat you for lunch. I got eaten by the one I got that great advice from enough to beat the lesson into my thick skull. Some people aren't cut out for the affair and love war games. Some are. You decide.
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Old 29th July 2017, 11:16 AM   #21
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I think I'm definitely not a 'pro'.

He might leave, if things get dire, but he probably won't - he will likely just go through the motions so he can be with his sons.

He's said he wants to continue until I meet someone but then says doesn't want me to meet anyone as it'll be the end of us. So there's no "I can't bear to see you with someone else". I'm sure if/when it happens he'll chase hard but it'll be more a case of want what can't have.

What also hurts is fact he says "my wife and I wouldn't be together if we didn't have the kids" and then says "I love you both the same"...but he has no ties to me, so why does he want me. If he loves me the same as his but he wouldn't be with her now if he didn't have children, then he doesn't really love either.

His thinking is always so contradictory.

I know the bottom line is he's not going anywhere anytime soon. Would I want him really...he's lied and he's cheated. His wife has just given birth and he's telling me he's consumed by thoughts of me when he knows he should be cocooned in his family.

I'm just feeling a loss of control. I don't know why. It's not like anything has really changed for me. I guess it's fact he is giving me hope that this rough patch will turn into a permanent thing and he'll leave. I think it's to keep me in his life because he knows I am ready to walk.

I'm sorry if this is a ramble. I know the choices are be a mistress or walk.
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Old 29th July 2017, 11:34 AM   #22
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...if he's a pro he'll eat you for lunch.
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Originally Posted by Serendipity55 View Post
I think I'm definitely not a 'pro'. .
No, but he is, and he IS eating you for lunch here...
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Old 29th July 2017, 11:54 AM   #23
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by Serendipity55 View Post


Now he's gone to 'we wouldn't be together if we didn't have kids'. One is 5 days old.


They only got married 1 year ago.
Well he was already NOT MARRIED with kids so why now is it so important to be married with kids? He's so full of it. If he didn't want this woman he didn't have to marry her because he already had kids and his freedom. How many kids does he have?
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Old 29th July 2017, 12:02 PM   #24
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He doesn't truly love his wife. If he did, he wouldn't have cheated on her twice and he wouldn't be telling you that he loves you. Especially, when she has a new baby at home - that's disgusting! Sorry.

The only person this guy loves is himself. He puts self interest above virtually all else - even his kids, because if he really loved his kids he would honor their mother (even if it meant divorce) and be a leader of the family.

It just makes me sad to see that you are confused and conflicted about a man who would use you and pass you by in a heartbeat, assuming that it was in his best interest to do so. Why would you ever want him - so he could do to you what he has done to his wife... no thank you! You deserve so much more than what he is offering...
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Last edited by BaileyB; 29th July 2017 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 29th July 2017, 12:08 PM   #25
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You could be a friend of his marriage and push him to find out why he cannot talk with his wife like he does you.
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Old 29th July 2017, 12:29 PM   #26
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I was a MW involved with a MM. I don't buy the argument that men do this just to get laid and it's all a ploy. I think more often than not they've lost emotional intimacy with their wife due to all the hassles and stressors of life, and they do fall in love with the OW.

But that love isn't enough to upend the apple cart. It just isn't. I was madly in love with my MM but I honestly never thought about leaving my husband for him - I just couldn't fathom wreaking that kind of devastation in our lives - and we don't even have kids. (Dumb I know because obviously the affair is the real devastation, but when you think you're getting away with it, it's hard to see the damage being done.)

It's just not that complicated. He loves you, but not enough to totally upend his whole life and hurt his family. But he loves you enough to want you around, because you fill in the gaps he's missing in his "real life" and makes it easier to endure the hard parts.
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Last edited by Birdies; 29th July 2017 at 12:31 PM..
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Old 29th July 2017, 1:15 PM   #27
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He doesn't truly love his wife. If he did, he wouldn't have cheated on her twice and he wouldn't be telling you that he loves you. Especially, when she has a new baby at home - that's disgusting! Sorry.

The only person this guy loves is himself. He puts self interest above virtually all else - even his kids, because if he really loved his kids he would honor their mother (even if it meant divorce) and be a leader of the family.

It just makes me sad to see that you are confused and conflicted about a man who would use you and pass you by in a heartbeat, assuming that it was in his best interest to do so. Why would you ever want him - so he could do to you what he has done to his wife... no thank you! You deserve so much more than what he is offering...
The above is exactly what I said on the OPs other thread. This man is wildly madly in love.......with himself. His wife, his children, and his OW are all objects to him. Objects that he possesses and that he thinks exists solely for his enjoyment.

OP one day, hopefully sooner than later, this affair will really be over and only after its over and you have had at a couple of years of total no contact will you be able to look at this objectively and see this man for the truly selfish user he is.

You say he tells you he would rather confide in you than his wife? Well of course! His wife just went through 9 months of pregnancy while dealing with another small toddler. Now she's had a baby just a few days ago and she can't go 5 minutes without a kid demanding her time and attention. She doesn't have the time or energy to listen to your MM whine about himself.

I think the major difference between the OW and the wife in many cases is that the OW doesn't place expectation or demands on the MM. The wife expects her husband to be her partner in everything. There was a thread a while back where an OW said the MMs wife was horrible because she was just using her husband as a father to their children, a contributor to their finances and a companion to herself. I was like huh? those don't sound like unreasonable expectations of a spouse to me.

But things get twisted in an affair because the OW exists solely to bring pleasure to the MM. In the few hours they spend together here and there, and in the time spent together on the phone, the OW gives her MM her undivided time and attention. Oh she might be interrupted by her own children, or by work, but her responsibilities and problems are not his problems. She doesn't expect him to take care of her children or to do chores around her house while she works or breast feeds the baby, or tries to grab a nap. So the MM gets all this attention from the OW and then he goes home and his tired harried wife is like "it's about time. Where were you? You were supposed to cut the grass today and take out the garbage. Now I need you to watch these kids so I can clean the bathroom." And the MM, having just spent time having leisurely conversation and sex with his OW is like "sheesh! What a bit@$. What's her problem?" The MMs ego has become further inflated by the affair and he thinks his wife's perfectly normal expectations are unreasonable and unfair. It twisted.

But he doesn't leave because somewhere deep down in his selfish little heart he subconsciously knows that he is being selfish and unfair. He knows the dynamics of an affair are far different than a fulltime marriage. He knows that if he were to leave his marriage to go be with the OW fulltime that then his OW would also have expectations of him to be a responsible, helpful, supportive spouse and parent.

OP your MM is telling you that he doesn't want to leave his marriage AND he doesn't want you to meet anyone else. He wants his wife, his kids and his OW. How selfish is that? He gets it all while everyone else is being ripped off. He expects you to just be on call for when he wants you. If he loved you than why does he think you deserve such a crappy deal? Why doesn't he think you deserve to have what he has? His feelings for people are all selfish and self serving. He can make big declarations of love but he sacrafices nothing for anyone. He says ohe loves his wife but he cheats and lies, he says he loves his kids but he takes risks with their security and happiness so he can have his fun on the side, he says he loves you but he expects you to stay on the sidelines in the role of hidden OW. He is not a good man and if his wife ever kicks him out and you get him fulltime I'm pretty sure you will be disappointed with your prize.
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Old 29th July 2017, 1:34 PM   #28
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I was a MW involved with a MM. I don't buy the argument that men do this just to get laid and it's all a ploy. I think more often than not they've lost emotional intimacy with their wife due to all the hassles and stressors of life, and they do fall in love with the OW.

But that love isn't enough to upend the apple cart. It just isn't. I was madly in love with my MM but I honestly never thought about leaving my husband for him - I just couldn't fathom wreaking that kind of devastation in our lives - and we don't even have kids. (Dumb I know because obviously the affair is the real devastation, but when you think you're getting away with it, it's hard to see the damage being done.)

It's just not that complicated. He loves you, but not enough to totally upend his whole life and hurt his family. But he loves you enough to want you around, because you fill in the gaps he's missing in his "real life" and makes it easier to endure the hard parts.
From your side of things I understand you wanting to believe that. However, men are different than woman. I see this time and time again where woman want to place men within the same parameters. If he is doing this with me, than like me he must be lacking something. Truth is, men are far more likely to engage in an affair simply for extra or different. Many if not most time that "different" thing has absolutely no impact on how he views and/or relates to his wife.

Point is some unhappily married man walks away everyday. In these situations more often than not it's BS. In this situation, it's clearly BS even OP can see it, but she allows emotions to cloud her judgement.
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Old 29th July 2017, 2:47 PM   #29
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When someone is new NC, its reasonable to sympathise... because they are trying to be fair with themselves and others. They are hurting immensely and confused.

But one needs to move forward from NC...its really hard for me to see two things here on LS: 1. People holding onto hope for ages, when day after day goes down the drain. I feel sad seeing posts like this.
2. People who are in NC but the motive is actually to get back.No remorse.

Love and respect go hand in hand. You got love and no respect for it or others around it... its not real love, its real selfish.

Sorry, I did not want to be so crude. But the gist in the post is what made me take the step out of everything. I feel sad that I choose an affair to dispense love, it was what I felt truly , but it was a wrong space, it will always be my truth that will hurt but it is what it is.

Crushedandlost was in pain , I and everyone could see that BUT he only appreciated answers he wanted to hear. Perspective wasnt welcomed. LS is all about perspective, if you dont want to hear what other people ( once in exactly your space) have to say and just want to reinforce what he thought was righf... whats the point?

Last edited by freengreen; 29th July 2017 at 3:22 PM..
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Old 29th July 2017, 4:48 PM   #30
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Sadly I know all of this. In my rational mind.

He's always been honest. He began from the outset saying he was 'happy in his marriage'. Now he's gone to 'we wouldn't be together if we didn't have kids'. One is 5 days old.

He's said to me he doesn't know whether he'll be able to stick it out. If it gets worse he might leave if it's best for his kids. I know what he's saying is I have no intention of leaving, my marriage isn't great but it's not awful either.

This is a pattern. Back in 2012 he had a fling with someone else, he wasn't married then. He decided to have a break from his then GF (now W) but after some couple counselling they got back together and bought a house.

Now, he's saying that him and W wouldn't be together if they didn't have kids because he's a different man to one who first fell in love with her. The present day man has fallen in love with me. They only got married 1 year ago.


Then he also says he loves us both equally. I have told him that simply can't be true. You can't love two people the same way and same amount. He maintains he can.

He says all he ever wanted was a family. His W has given that to him, so he's made his bed and has to lie in it now. I said no, you want to lie in it. Big difference.

He said that he can't bear idea of sharing his children. So he can't leave and then deal with sharing them. He said his W and kids come as a package.

I know from what he's saying it's clear who he values more. His W.

But when he tells me how his love for me is growing and how he wants to confide in me more not his W and how he might leave if things get worse...it gives me some sort of hope and I feel somewhat in limbo.

Why would I want a man who can cheat so easily? I know. I should not. I don't want to want him. I want to be disgusted at him and myself. I know I should be.
How on earth cna this guy as you to stay with him while his wife is pregnant and he has a baby?

This makes me so ticked off?

He "loves" his kids?
yeah riiiigghhhhhhtttt.....

He loves them so much he would risk one of them so he can cheat with you. Pffftttt... he's full of crap.

Assume his wife found out about the A, and the emotional stress harmed her and/or the baby?

Why is he doing this to you, his wife and kids? he needs to get his own head straight before he goes and messes up anyone elses life.
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