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Funny the things they say that actually tell you everything ..[Update]


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I've been in love with this guy for 7 years. He's a coworker. He's been married 7 years. It's progressed from being good friends to where it is today- which is all these declarations of love and how he wants to leave his wife and be with me. I had waited so long for him to 'see the light' and discover that he should be with me.

 

We've kissed a thousand times and played around and things like that. We still haven't slept together. I'm not even sure why. It was mainly because he said his wife was a control freak and wouldn't let him out of the house. But it's not only that. I'm terrified of having sex with him really. Scared of loving him even more than I do. Scared that we won't be able to go back to 'not really cheating'.

 

Well, it's funny how people sometimes say things that they don't even realize the impact of the words.

 

Today he told me that he wants out of his marriage to have the kind of freedom that I have. I live alone. No children. No baggage. He has always told me that he's scared that I won't want him after I have him because of my independent nature. Truth is- he just wants my freedom. Reading between the lines, I realized that he doesn't want me. Only my freedom. He wanted me to get him out of his marriage. He wanted to use my strength as a f*cking springboard to end his marriage.

 

Yesterday he shocked the hell out of me by telling me that he has had multiple experiences with men. His eyes glazed over telling me how hot it was and how he sucked off some guy while another one was um... inside him. He said he has a fetish about rubber. Rubber?!! Said he met guys online and dressed up in rubber outfits while they all had sex with each other.

 

He thought I would be turned on.

 

I was mainly - shocked and a little appalled.

 

It all makes sense now.

 

He is the type of guy you read about in the paper. The upstanding moral Boy Scout leader. Would probably take a bullet for any fellow man. (Or woman). He is the mildest, meekest most sincere acting man on the planet. You would never in a million years imagine that he would ever partake in anything like this.

 

And NO I am not judging him.

 

The point is- it makes sense now. Why he married her.

 

To maintain the look of decency.

 

She never had a chance. And neither do I.

 

He was probably hoping that I would join him in his sexcapades. Probably looked at me like nothing more than future sexual gratification. If he even did that. He is bisexual at least.

 

And the real realization is not his sexuality but the fact that he was blowing smoke up my ass. All the tears he cried over me. All the I love yous. It was bull****. It had to be.

 

He didn't even call me today after work like normal. That's his usual way of punishing me. Really it's just him being a coward. He hurts me. Then he abandons me. He tells me later that he "just didn't know what to say to me". But it's punishment pure and simple- just like always.

 

I feel like the biggest fool on the planet. I was going to CRUSH people's lives to have him as my own and he was just using me to end his marriage because he was too much a coward to do it himself.

 

I'm ashamed and hurting like hell.

 

Is this what you get out of this exchange? Do you all see the same thing I do or could I possibly be wrong??

 

I can't even bring myself to face him at work tomorrow. I don't know what I'm going to do.

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somanymistakes

Well, the thing about wanting the same freedom that you have does sound like he dreams of a life of not being married - to you or anyone else. So if you were hoping that he'd walk out of one marriage and into another with you, I think you need to give up on that.

 

I don't entirely see what you mean about thinking that all the i-love-yous are bull**** just because he's secretly kinky, though. I mean, he did trust you enough to tell you that. I'm not saying that means he DOES love you, just that I'm not totally sure why you're reacting to that part in particular.

 

Is it because it's another sign of how much he lives double lives, keeping secrets, lying to his wife about all the things he gets up to?

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No it's not because of the kinky stuff that he told me that made me think his i love yous were crap. I felt even more love for him that he trusted me enough to share that with me. I did. It's the part about where he's been telling me for months that he's scared that I won't want him once I have him because he says I'm so independent.

 

But really.. He didn't mean that because he himself wants what I have. Independence. Not to be with me like he said.

 

The reason the kinky stuff threw me is because yes, secret life and all. What else is he keeping secrets about. He lies to his wife. He probably lies to me too. He leads me on. I think he loves the adoration coming from me.

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Plus I mean yea the screwing men threw me! I'm a very open minded person but let's face it- I'm not a man. So how could I possibly measure up so to speak. I'll never be a man. So if this is something he needs, how can I possibly compete. Why should I. I wanted him for me. Not for me and whatever man he's rolling around on tarps with. Ya know? It just .. threw me.

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Sweetie, run, don't walk to your doctor to get tested. You are correct that he is using you for some future sexual escapade he's hoping you will agree to. No man who is in love with a woman he wants to make his is going to tell that little story of sucking off some guy while another one is in his bum. I bet he wouldn't dare tell his wife those things and if someone else told her he would deny it.

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Plus I mean yea the screwing men threw me! I'm a very open minded person but let's face it- I'm not a man. So how could I possibly measure up so to speak. I'll never be a man. So if this is something he needs, how can I possibly compete. Why should I. I wanted him for me. Not for me and whatever man he's rolling around on tarps with. Ya know? It just .. threw me.

 

Threw you? I would have thrown up all over him.

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somanymistakes

Not to defend him on this point because it sounds like he has some serious problems with being honest and monogamous, but - it can be really hard to be bisexual sometimes.

 

Imagine, if all your potential girlfriends turn you down because they're not men and can't compete with that, and all your potential boyfriends turn you down because they're not women and can't compete with that!

 

Instead of having twice the options you end up with none...

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ClassyTaste

"Yesterday he shocked the hell out of me by telling me that he has had multiple experiences with men. His eyes glazed over telling me how hot it was and how he sucked off some guy while another one was um... inside him. He said he has a fetish about rubber. Rubber?!! Said he met guys online and dressed up in rubber outfits while they all had sex with each other."

 

This is not simply 'kinky,' This is very very, did I say very gay. I love gay men, but I have no desire to sleep with them.

 

You really tore up his wife awhile ago because she was upset at your friendship:

Post after post berating her for your, 'we are only good friends,' with her husband.

 

I would be worried about how many back alley romps this man has with men and also concerned with the type of men who offer these services to MM.

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Wow... sounds like my exhusband! I never picked up on him being gay for almost 20 years. He's still my best friend but the thought of what he desires is disgusting from my view point. Thankfully he still hasn't found a man to be physical with. Once he does, there is no way I would want to keep him in my life. You need to remove his memories from your mind and hope you haven't caught hiv or worse.

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Seems like you had a moment of clarity. When the clouds parted, the sun came out, and all became clear.

 

Very insightful post and I think you are spot on about almost everything. I think telling you about the homosexuality was his way of breaking up with you. More of the same passive aggressiveness directed toward his wife through using you.

 

I know it hurts it be used and misled, but we don't have to tell you it's best to not waste any more time with this guy. Learn from it. Move on.

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His eyes glazed over telling me how hot it was and how he sucked off some guy while another one was um... inside him. He said he has a fetish about rubber. Rubber?!! Said he met guys online and dressed up in rubber outfits while they all had sex with each other.

 

And NO I am not judging him.

 

Well pehaps you SHOULD judge him. He has been cheating on his W since day 1 of their marriage (and possibly before this), stringing you along for 7 years - and now you find out that the whole time he has been engaged in all these perverse acts with other men (I am not anti-gay, but what you wrote made my skin crawl).

 

Please KK, you've heard everything you need to know. 180 and never give this POS the time of day again. I pity his poor wife.

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somanymistakes
Wow... sounds like my exhusband! I never picked up on him being gay for almost 20 years. He's still my best friend but the thought of what he desires is disgusting from my view point. Thankfully he still hasn't found a man to be physical with. Once he does, there is no way I would want to keep him in my life. You need to remove his memories from your mind and hope you haven't caught hiv or worse.

 

Wow. While your husband clearly left you with some pain in your life, please take some time to think about yourself and the way you treat others. The hurt that you have experienced is not an excuse to hurt others.

 

1 - There are gay people on this forum. If you are so disgusted by having to even talk to them, you'll have to leave. Gosh, someone gay might be reading or replying to your post RIGHT NOW.

 

2 - The OP hasn't even had sex with this man. EVEN IF he had HIV, you don't catch it by simply being near someone who has it.

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Wow... sounds like my exhusband! I never picked up on him being gay for almost 20 years. He's still my best friend but the thought of what he desires is disgusting from my view point. Thankfully he still hasn't found a man to be physical with. Once he does, there is no way I would want to keep him in my life. You need to remove his memories from your mind and hope you haven't caught hiv or worse.

 

You're ex husband is your best friend but you will ditch him the moment he finds a male sexual partner (and possibly happiness)? May I ask why?

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I feel like the biggest fool on the planet. I was going to CRUSH people's lives to have him as my own and he was just using me to end his marriage

 

a.k.a Karma is a Beyotch :rolleyes:

 

 

Get out of this mess and date a single straight guy. Sorry, is there a nice politically correct term for Bigot?

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Thanks God you haven't slept with him.

 

This is one time I hope your MM isn't sleeping with his wife, because of the high risk of STDs after his sexcapades.

 

Despite how allegedly controlling his wife is, he still managed to have multiple hook ups with men.

 

He said that to gain sympathy from you and I'm sure you believed it at the time.

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Oh hey I think I didn't clarify. He says the gay sex happened BEFORE he was married. Who knows though. He said he definitely wanted to do it again. That's where the "freedom" comes in I guess. I distinctly remember sitting at the lunch table way back when we were friends only and he was looking at the craigslist hookups and reading them out loud and laughing at them. Said he just liked to laugh at them.

 

Still can't get it through my head that I was to be used to get him out of his marriage. He straight out said this. He said when she catches us, I'm sorry about the things she might do to you. He wanted her to throw him out. I can't help wondering what his plan was after that.

 

I contemplated staying home from work today but I willed myself to go shaking the whole way there. When I got there, he wasn't there. He had stayed home! Sent me a message saying how much he loved me and when I didn't answer he just threw it on thicker until I finally broke down and answered that I felt deeply hurt.

 

You know what he said??

 

He said "that's because of how much you love me."

 

Are you f*cking serious?? No buddy! It's not because of how much I love you! It's because of all the years of you using me in one way or another and screwing up my head so bad that I wanted to die! It's because you said you wanted ME and then turned around and wanted "independence" instead! It's because of all the bull**** speeches you gave me about soul mates and fate! It's because of the way you strut around like a f*cking peacock because you KNEW that to me you were the sexiest man alive! You USED ME. Eat a dick!!

 

Oh man I'm losing it. I'm so sorry please forgive me.

 

Yes this is my karma I guess. Ok ok. I haven't had the greatest time of it. Life has screwed me multiple times over. I've been a decent caring loving person for the most part. ALL of my life. I've made a grave mistake.

 

Why I had to fall in love with a married man is beyond me. I'm dumb. Stupid. i thought he was my very best friend. Now I have to work there with him and go through the whole not talking thing again probably.

 

And I'm confused with some of the replies. Some of them say that I should feel good that he shared that and I should be accepting of it. Which in the beginning I was and probably as horrible as it sounds still would be if he ever gave me anything tangible to hang on to!! Other people say no. No way. Selling myself short. I don't think being gay is bad if that's what you are and I'm not trying to say that. It's just in this instance, how can I feel loved as a woman when he is imagining men. I don't know.

 

I give up.

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Yeah, some guys have this warped idea that when a woman loves a man she should be willing to go through the worst hellish pain imaginable for the sake of standing by her man. Meanwhile these same men will ditch a woman if she causes him even a minor inconvenience. They are self entitled selfish jerks.

 

When it comes to being flattered that a guy opens up to me and tells me his deepest darkest secrets, I'm of two minds. One could say it's that it shows the man has trust in the woman in that he feels he can be his real true authentic self around her. However I think when a man confesses all to a woman it's just as often due to the fact that he feels she has low expectations and low standards. Sure he's happy to have met a woman who doesn't judge him or hold him to any standards because he thinks he has found the one who will accept anything.

 

I have spoken often here about an abusive man I spend many years with. He was very open and honest with me about certain things that he hadn't told other women. I was very in love with him and so I always accepted whatever he told me without judgement or condemnation. Over time it became apparent that there was an expectation on his part that I would accept whatever he dished out. Interestingly the woman he most respected and admired were women who had high expectations and didn't put up with any sh*t from a man. I found myself in this odd place of wanting to be respected and admired by him but knowing that he didn't respect or admire me just for the fact that I was with him and put up with his poor behavior. If I wanted to earn his respect I would have to leave him.

 

Now I know that bisexuality and abuse are two entirely different things and I"m not comparing them. I'm just saying that a man who feels totally at ease telling his gf everything about himself isn't always flattering. Sometimes it's just because he thinks she is a doormat with low standards and will accept anything. I feel like your MM told you this because he thinks it will be okay with you for him to explore this side of himself, that you will give him this freedom to try new partners and experiences while happily cheering him on from the sidelines. He thinks he doesn't have to give you commitment or monogamy.

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BreakingWave

[quote=K.K.;7371433

 

And I'm confused with some of the replies. Some of them say that I should feel good that he shared that and I should be accepting of it. Which in the beginning I was and probably as horrible as it sounds still would be if he ever gave me anything tangible to hang on to!! Other people say no. No way. Selling myself short. I don't think being gay is bad if that's what you are and I'm not trying to say that. It's just in this instance, how can I feel loved as a woman when he is imagining men. I don't know.

 

I give up.

 

Honestly, you're going to get a lot of different types of replies here because you've addressed your post to a wide variety of different people. Presumably, we're all here because our lives have been touched in significant ways by infidelity. However, some of us are former "wayward" husbands or wives; some of us are "betrayed" husbands or wives; some of us were or still are the other man/woman. And soon you'll find that while this board is supposed to be "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner," there are some folks who come on to kick us when we're down and don't often have a sympathetic word for ANY other man/woman no matter what the circumstances. That, however, only applies to a very small number of posters. In my experience both as a poster and as someone who follows the stories of others, the vast majority of people on this forum are incredibly kind, even when it's a "tough love" approach. Personally, I don't know how I'd have made it through this horrible summer if I had not discovered this forum several months ago. Often, we are here talking about profoundly important events in our lives that (for very good reason) we don't talk about with the people who are actually a part of our day-to-day life. That can be very isolating, and in that respect, forming "relationships/friendships" here can be an absolute lifeline.

 

That said, you'll *always* find a wide diversity of opinion and reaction to most of your posts, because we're all filtering it through our own experiences and lenses. What I find most welcome here is that no one is speaking with a personal agenda - we are speaking from a shared experience that not everyone can relate to. The individual circumstances may be different from one case to another, but many of us have had to deal with the same types of disappointments, crushed hopes, feelings of self-doubt, etc. That can be a powerful bond and hopefully you'll keep posting long enough to feel it for yourself.

 

As far as your situation - I am gay, so I'm definitely not with the posters who've expressed disgust at the idea of homosexuality generally. That said, I can certainly understand how it was shocking to you that you believed this man to be in love with you and then found out that he has sexual desires for men. It's entirely possible that he's bisexual and is so deeply ashamed of this fact, for reasons that could (and have) filled libraries, but trusted you with the information. That doesn't mean he gets to decide how you feel about it! You can absolutely feel surprised and unsure how well you know him, just as if he'd admitted to anything else that caught you entirely off guard. But know that just because he has a kink, or because he's attracted to men, that doesn't automatically mean nothing he's felt for you over the years was real. It's very possible to want multiple things at once, or to want one type of relationship for your lifelong commitment and another for a once in a while "spice up your life" deal.

 

My x-AP is a married straight woman who'd never so much as kissed another woman before we started our affair. She surprised herself as much as me when she admitted her attraction to me. This doesn't automatically mean her marriage to her H was a lie; and I keep trying to tell myself that the fact she's chosen to stay married to him doesn't necessarily mean her feelings for me weren't real. Sexuality is a fluid thing, and your xMM needs to find friends who will support him no matter who he wants to sleep with or what he wants to do with them. He doesn't, however, have the right to expect you to want to make it a part of your own life.

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No man who is in love with a woman he wants to make his is going to tell that little story of sucking off some guy while another one is in his bum. I bet he wouldn't dare tell his wife those things and if someone else told her he would deny it.

 

Not necessarily true. My DH is bi. He was up front about his sexuality in the very beginning because he loved me, wanted to build a life with me, and didn't want to hide something so important about himself. We were dating less that a month before I knew his sexual history, both with men and women. I was told about encounters similar to what OP has learned. He practiced safer sex, he was STD free, wanted a monogamous relationship, and here we are 17 years later.

 

So, no, not all bisexual men are going to lie and conceal.

 

That said, this MM seems to be looking for an exit affair and doesn't seem to want a monogamous relationship and may not be capable of monogamy, anyways. And, of course, he concealed this history from OP for 7 YEARS before coming clean. His bisexuality and previous encounters aren't the real issue. The real issue is he's a liar, an adulterer, and he used poor OP.

 

There are good, honest, loyal, bisexuals out there of both genders. This guy ain't one of em.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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Just wanted to thank everybody for their advice and replies. I thought about everything for a long while. In the end it didn't matter anyway. Will be making a new thread to explain if I am able to post it.

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I've read at least 3 threads here over the weekend that all say the same thing my MM said. "I wish she'd just find out so she would throw me out." Made my blood run cold.

 

It's a lie. Completely. Not true. Not sure why they even say that. Maybe they believe it at the time?

 

I had decided that I was going to try to let his homosexual experiences (explained on another thread) go to the back of my mind and just love him. We had a few good weeks at work together. He seemed more in love every day. I couldn't believe this was happening. He kept talking about he was definitely going to leave her because he couldn't live without me. You know the drill if you're the other woman.

 

One day at lunch she texted him that he must leave work immediately and come meet her. She wouldn't say why but when she says jump he jumps. We both had a feeling that she had found out about us. She's been checking up on him for years now since the last time where she found the very innocent (at the time) text message and demand he stop talking to me. (3 years ago.) Lately he has resumed texting and calling me and I guess she checked and saw it.

 

So before he left work, he held me and looked me in my eyes and assured me that he was going to tell her that he was done with her. That he wanted to be with me. I believed him completely. It was like he finally found a backbone. Because he has always let her treat him like a mother does. Demanding this and that. He said that this is want he's been waiting for ! He was so happy. I could see it in his face.

 

He came back to work a few hours later and pulled me outside, sat in my car and told me everything very excitedly of what was said. And yes of course I know he could've made it up. But he didn't. I could tell. He told me straight out. He said she asked who it was. He told her she already knew- it was me. She asked him how could you disrespect me like that and he told her that she really didn't know him at all. That he's sick of being controlled. That he was sick of not being able to have friends or have any kind of life. She called me trash. He told her that we haven't had sex but have done other things together. He told her he loved me. She demanded he quit his job and took his phone away so he couldn't call me. She told him he had some hard choices and he went back to work and told me all this.

 

Friends, he was so happy that day. He looked at me and kissed me with tears in his eyes. I told him to take time to figure things out. He asked if he could stay with me at my apartment. I said of course.

 

He left the job that evening telling me that he was going home to pack his things and he would be down soon.

 

Well... I never heard one word out of him that evening or all weekend long.

 

If it wouldn't have hurt so much, I would've laughed at the absurdity of it.

 

He came back to work Monday morning a different person. Stared at me like I was a stranger. Said he couldn't do it. Said I should've expected as much?!

 

Basically folks, what he did was went home and told his wife he was crazy. Had mental problems and issues so bad that I HAD BROUGHT OUT IN HIM. Are you kidding me?!! I was nothing but supportive and loving to him. Even when he told me about how great it was screwing men!

 

I'm not sure if this guy legitimately has a screw loose or is a psychopath for playing like he does but either way OH MY GOD.

 

So the only way he could explain loving me to his wife was that he was "sick in the head!" His words!

 

I can't even believe this stuff. But you know... I should have seen all the signs from a mile away. The hot and cold. The push pull. The love bombing.

 

Yep.

 

I was numb that day. But that night I started grieving this man. This loss of a 6 year friendship. Who was he all that time? The loss of everything that I thought that we had together. I almost had a nervous breakdown.

 

So the next day I wanted to get this out of me. I sat him down and began sobbing like an idiot. Asking him why he had done this to me. Telling him point blank that I was grieving the relationship and the friendship. Grieving the future that never happened.

 

You know what he did? He sat there like somebody I never even knew at all and he said look I don't know why you kept coming back to me all these years! He said that he is unwell. Said that he was a sick piece of ****. He sat there shaking like he was in a straight jacket. Talking in a weird faraway voice. I still don't know if he is really crazy or if he is just pretending to be. My tears were nothing to him. He said he needed to get up and he did, leaving me there crying. He didn't say another word to me.

 

Now I know that maybe you think I made a fool out of myself for crying and being as upset as I was. But I don't care about that. I needed to get it out. I needed to let him know. This is somebody I loved with everything in me and thought was going to finally be mine not two days before.

 

He then ignored me all day looking very normal. Walking around like his usual cocky arrogant self. Even bending over so that I would have to look at his boxers since he wears his pants halfway down his ass.

 

I was so livid by the end of the day, that when he finally said something to me which was that we would be working on the same project the next day, I freaked out of my head. I said to him " you sat there and watched me grieve my guts this morning and you got up and walked away. ". I told him he was cold blooded. I said to him that I had heard that when people tell you who they really are, you should listen. He chuckled and said that he was a piece of ****. He chuckled! Laughed in my face!

 

I said, "I wish I wouldn't have wasted so much time trying to see the good in you. Now I don't know if you're bat**** crazy or just plain cruel but I know that you're the biggest cold blooded piece of **** that I have ever known."

 

He stood there with his mouth hanging open trying to think of something to say. I told to turn around and walk away and never f*ck with me again.

 

I've spent all day today applying at other jobs.

 

I'm not really telling you all this to show you how karma works. And maybe that's it. I'm telling you this story because even other women as flawed as they may be, are real people with real feelings who sometimes get caught up into a situation like this before they even know what hit them.

 

After all the threads I've read lately, I do agree that there is a script that these men follow to get what they want.

 

It's a lie. And that's all it is.

 

They're never going to leave security and comfort for feelings of excitement. Never. If they do leave, I think you must have a much greater dynamic of feeling like you're at 'home' with this person.

 

I'm sure his home life will be a bit unsteady for a few weeks. But other than that, he comes out unscathed. While she will never be able to let her guard down and I got completely destroyed.

 

Like I said, if it didn't feel so tragic, I'd laugh my head off.

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"He then ignored me all day looking very normal. Walking around like his usual cocky arrogant self. Even bending over so that I would have to look at his boxers since he wears his pants halfway down his ass."

 

Say it isn't so.....

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I know right. Just saying. That's how he gets his kicks. Showing his ass. Maybe I exaggerated a little saying halfway down his ass. But it hangs out enough so he can make sure you see his calvins or tommy hilfigers. :rolleyes: God I'm an idiot.

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ladydesigner

I'm so sorry K.K. for your pain. These types of WS's treat their wives the same way I know because I am one. One day his wife probably won't care what he does, he sounds like a big groveling baby who only cares about himself while he blew up 2 women's lives. Some of them have real deep seated issues, my WH actually has been diagnosed with a personality disorder!

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What_Did_I_Do

If I wasn't following your story KK, I would have thought for sure this was complete malarky.

 

Wow, what a piece of work he is. (((Hugs))) to you. The lengths they go to to save their sorry *sses. Unbelievable. They sure talk the talk when away from home but the minute the brown stuff hits the fan they flip so fast we're left with an acute case of whiplash.

 

As mentioned so often here, you did dodge a bullet.

 

You have to go NC KK and honest to Pete, resist his boxer flashing antics. Ugh.

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