Objectified like a doll

[norudder]

I read this article the other day and it struck me as familiar to how I think exMM related to women and why I ended up feeling so objectified.

 

My sex doll is so much better than my real wife | New York Post

 

These men have real feelings, to them it is love, it doesn't matter if it is returned or not by these dolls incapable of reciprocal thoughts or feelings. ExMM took me places, treated me well, had feelings for me but didn't really care about my inner being or show interest in my needs, only that his needs were met.

 

I wonder how many men out there prefer this kind of situation and would do it if it weren't socially awkward so instead try to get the same effect from actual women.

 

Did anyone else feel like a metaphorical doll?

[stillafool]

My question would be why would a woman have such low self esteem to allow herself to be put in that position?

[norudder]

My question would be why would a woman have such low self esteem to allow herself to be put in that position?

 

I think you answered your own question. Myself I had to figure out the difference and when I woke up got out of the situation. Some people have issues. I did.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I think there are many men, particularly married men, who fit this mold. They already have a wife at home (and likely children) who depend on them and whose needs are part of their everyday life.

 

A mistress, on the other hand, is his escape, his fantasy, and often him seeking the best parts of what he had with his wife at one point or what he wishes he had with her.

 

Affairs by design are very selfish. I don't think anyone will disagree with that.

[RecentChange]

What Michelle says is exactly right.

 

In my experience affairs are NOT about meeting your partners needs, but rather getting your own needs fulfilled.

 

And that puts single other women (or other men) at a distinct disadvantage. They don't have a primary relationship / life to attend to, and get other "fulfilment" from. They are left providing for the "MM" with little in return besides the sweetness and attention needed to keep the OW providing for him.

 

A doll.... Expects even less (and gives less in return), but the concept is the same....he doesn't love the doll, he loves what the doll can provide for him.

[anassa]

 

And that puts single other women (or other men) at a distinct disadvantage. They don't have a primary relationship / life to attend to, and get other "fulfilment" from. They are left providing for the "MM" with little in return besides the sweetness and attention needed to keep the OW providing for him.

 

 

Ugh yes, this is the part that still makes me angry. I did not start our relationship knowing he was married. I had to snoop to find out.

 

In the very beginning I explicitly told him I only want to invest in someone who is emotionally available for a real relationship. Past lessons taught me to be wary of commitmentphobes. Never in a thousand years did I suspect he was married! He had his chance to at least say "I'm not looking for a serious relationship" but he didn't.

 

Now that I ended it, I'm left bitter thinking about why he didn't mess around with another unhappy married person if he wanted to have an affair. Why did he mess around with the innocent and hopeful? Because he wanted to feel that someone was truly devoted to him, though he obviously wasn't willing to do the same ... I really struggle to understand how people can be like this.

Edited July 7, 2017 by anassa

[freengreen]

What Michelle says is exactly right.

 

In my experience affairs are NOT about meeting your partners needs, but rather getting your own needs fulfilled.

 

And that puts single other women (or other men) at a distinct disadvantage. They don't have a primary relationship / life to attend to, and get other "fulfilment" from. They are left providing for the "MM" with little in return besides the sweetness and attention needed to keep the OW providing for him.

 

A doll.... Expects even less (and gives less in return), but the concept is the same....he doesn't love the doll, he loves what the doll can provide for him.

Married people who get single ones ... they must be drowining in the ego they get out of it...

[MissCongeniality]

My question would be why would a woman have such low self esteem to allow herself to be put in that position?

Well speaking from experience(I was involved with lots of guys during my teens and early twenties) typically for me it was that I enjoyed getting attention and affection for once in my life I didn't care if it was real as long as it felt real in the moment(and honestly I never wanted to know about the man or woman's personal life) I remember dressing the way one guy wanted and I remember being happy because I made him happy and even though I realized I was an object to him I was content because well in a sick way I was happy making him happy. In some ways I'm still that way I just be who people want me to be it's how I kept guys around I just became what they wanted. Which is what made my marriage so difficult my husband was the first to actually see I was just being what he wanted and for some reason that upset him.

Edited July 8, 2017 by MissCongeniality

[ClassyTaste]

SIX SIGNS OF A LOVE AVOIDANT

1. Evades Intimate and Emotional Connection

 

In romantic relationships evading intimacy and getting too close emotionally is the name of the game for a love avoidant. Emotional intimacy is a vital component of healthy relationships. Intimacy involves allowing oneself to ‘be known’. Intimacy is about trust, vulnerability, sharing reality of self, communicating wants and needs, as well as expressing genuine feelings and emotions. When there is authentic love, intimacy is at the core of that love.

 

Yet, intimacy and emotional closeness is the love avoidants greatest fear. Because of early childhood experiences, they learned to associate intimacy with engulfment, suffocation, and being controlled. So the closer you try to get to your partner- their response is not to reciprocate, but to distance and run. Instead of healthy boundaries to protect their sense of space and themselves (something intimacy also requires), they use thick emotional walls- that makes intimate connection impossible.

 

They are emotionally like a turtle that repeatedly pulls into his/her rigid shell when one attempts to get too close and connect emotionally. You may get occasional glimpses of his/her real self, openness, or vulnerability-- only to see them retreat once again behind their walls.

 

*Interestingly, a love avoidant with children does not fear emotionally connecting with their children. They feel safe and are not at risk of being known, vulnerable, and authentic with their children- since children are powerless and cannot abandon, reject, shame, or control them. What's more, some love avoidant parents can be too vulnerable and enmeshed- becoming love addicts in relation to their children.

2. Does a "Complete About Face” in the relationship– Becomes a Whole Different Person From Whom You First Met

 

As your relationship progresses, you notice a complete change in your partner’s attitude. A "complete about face" occurs. Your partner is notably different from the person you first met.

 

In the initial part of addictive relationships, the love avoidant exhibits an illusion of intimacy, caring, and connection. They form an immediate attachment idealizing their love addict partner. They come on strong and appear charming, strong, stimulating, caring, generous, and devoted - (all seductive maneuver's). Then the relationship moves forward and soon enough the true colors of the love avoidant emerge. The charm, attention, and seductiveness go out the door- no more! The seemingly once available “magical” person you fallen for becomes cold, devaluing, and disengaged.

 

As a love addict, you first cannot put a finger on what is happening, but you can feel it, and the shift in your partner is anxiety provoking. You say to yourself or to friends/family, “He/she was so thoughtful in the beginning, where is the person I met? I’m confused and baffled. What am I doing wrong?" You may make excuses and even blame yourself for the change you see in your partner.

 

Invariably, you try to give more, do more, be more romantic, or try to make things as they were. There is a pursuit of keeping the fantasy alive in order to recreate the euphoria experienced in the beginning of the relationship. And the toxic dance is in order. It is at this phase when a love avoidant is carrying out many of their strategies to avoid (3rd sign-next).

3. Uses Distancing Strategies to Avoid Intimacy and Closeness

 

You eventually feel a shift in your partner’s attitude. You sense your partner is not really ‘showing up’ in the relationship. And it is true- because a love avoidant is busy with their behavioral or emotional distancing strategies which are used to impede closeness and squelch intimacy.

 

For example, the love avoidant will compulsively focus outside the relationship. Instead of seeking intensity in the relationship, they seek intensity outside the relationship with the use of various behaviors and distractions (i.e., staying very busy with activities, hobbies, internet, partying, gardening, gaming, playing sports, shopping, spending all their time volunteering, or much more time with friends or family, etc.).

 

Some will use the distancing strategy of “no commitment” and never fully commit to the relationship. They may say, “I love you, I care about you, I want to be with you, but I’m not quite ready for a relationship.” They may use the distancing tactic of avoiding ‘I love you’, and make excuses for why they do so. They may avoid physical closeness (i.e., not wanting to have sex, or share the same bed; or avoid touching or caressing; hugging, kissing or holding hands; walking ahead of you or at a distance, etc.).

 

Another strategy commonly used to sabotage intimate connection is by creating a lot drama in the relationship such as starting arguments, or constantly complain about you, people, the world, or grumbling about their personal problems they never seem to resolve. They may sabotage closeness by criticizing, judging, being condescending, being passive-aggressive, attacking, lying, making threats, even by being accommodating (in certain situations) without being honest.

 

With a partner using strategies to avoid intimacy and closeness- a healthy loving relationship is unattainable.

4. Has an Addiction or Compulsive Problem

 

A love avoidant often have an addiction problem that significantly affects their relationship. Addiction is the ultimate cocktail to focus far-and-away from intimately connecting with a relationship partner.

 

They can have any kind of addiction, and there are many (both substance and behavioral) - gambling; drugs; alcohol; internet/computer; exercise, gaming addictions and the list goes on. Many are sex or porn addicts. Moreover, many are workaholics, that is they are excessively busy and preoccupied with their job or career (yes, work can be used like a drug to escape and certainly sabotage relational connection).

 

Additionally, a love avoidant partner can become a love addict- not in the relationship, but outside. More common than many people imagine, they can be in a committed relationship (or married), and become extremely addicted and obsessed with a person outside the relationship. And they can go through excruciating withdrawal if their cheating partner leaves them.

 

An addiction is a powerful method to escape from and sabotage a any close relationship.

5. Narcissist or Displays Narcissistic Traits

 

Love Avoidants are prone to narcissism. Not all are full-blown narcissists; nevertheless, a majority will almost certainly present some traits of narcissism. Narcissism is an undeniable indicator that a person is not intimately engaged in a relationship.

 

A Narcissist may show two faces -- the one they wear in public, and the one they wear in close interpersonal relationships; which is not a good one. On the outside in public, they can present a nice, pleasant exterior. People who are not close to them may view them as a fun, confident, charming, outgoing, social person.

 

Only those close to the narcissist have any idea there is more to them than this one fictitious face. BBehind their façade of tough-skin, strength, and charisma is a very fragile, wounded person who is thinks the world is all about him/her and feels above their relationship partner.

 

One telling trait of narcissism is the sense of entitlement. They want what they want when they want it. You can forget what you want- they do not care. They feel their needs and wants are all that matters; and their attitude is you should feel the same. Furthermore, you should NOT expect to have your needs and wants met, or even heard. They expect you to anticipate their every wish and if you do not – look out! - As they may lash with anger, rage, and strike back by devaluing and demeaning you as a person.

 

Other narcissistic traits:

 

-- Lacks empathy. Emotional support or understanding is minimal at best. Inability to identify with and understand your feelings; fails to recognize or care about what you are going through or experiencing; cold and aloof towards your feelings; displays an inability to be caring or compassionate through difficult times.

 

-- Has difficulty taking responsibility or admitting mistakes. When arguments or issues inevitably occur, he/she rarely feels accountable as being part of the problem. All relational troubles and predicaments are yours and yours only. They will never admit defeat. They have a selective memory of events, and seldom take ownership of past (or present) behavior that seems imperfect or unpleasant to them. They twist the facts, and in so doing, make you the ‘crazy’ one for even suggesting they somehow had a part of any problematic matter.

 

-- Grandiose: Is impracticable and idealistic in view of themselves. Has an extreme sense of superiority and self-importance; Their self esteem seems high, however it is false self esteem as it is only gained by viewing others as “less than” and the self as “better than”. They comprise a brazen mental state that it is always and forever, about him/her. They have a need for unconditional admiration, admiration, attention, but only on a superficial level.

 

-- Easily becomes defensive/feels threatened: If you are not propping him/her on the high artificial pedestal, he/she often becomes offended, slighted, or bitter. When you call them out or confront them on an issue, inappropriate comment or behavior, or if you set a boundary, share a differing view, opinion, or belief— they easily view it as a threat; and consider it an attack on themselves. More often than not, their response is to become defensive then strike back with rage, fury, power games, revengeful tactics, or passive aggressive behavior's.

 

* You may also notice narcissistic behavior's in your partners relationships with others (family, friends, coworkers, etc.)

6. Is Resistant to Professional Help (for self and/or a relationship)

 

The love avoidant is often very resistant to change and rather content with status quo as long as they feel in control of things (not mattering what you feel). As a result, they will often refuse or resist help such as counseling, therapy, and treatment.

 

To seek professional help through a therapist or counselor requires one to be vulnerable, open, honest, and accountable. In other words, it requires allowing oneself to be open to intimate connection, (remember, intimacy is their greatest fear). Essentially for the same reasons, just as they run from intimacy and accountability within a romantic relationship-- they strongly shun therapeutic help even if it could benefit themselves, their partner, and potentially the relationship.

 

If they do come in for treatment (often by being pulled in by their partner), they do so with emotional walls. Their defences will be up, and will avoid and distract from areas of emotional discussions, or issues of responsibility. Even when gently confronted by a therapist, they will play a victim- act as the sufferer, make excuses, accuse, blame, and avoid any accountable part they have in relational challenges; thereby closing off any opportunity to create healthy change for themselves or in the relationship.

A relationship with a love avoidant is in reality, not a real relationship at all— but a counterfeit emotional entangle.

 

If you are a love addict and your partner is love avoidant, it is important to keep in mind—that his/her attitude and behaviors, and who they show themselves to be in the relationship is not about you, or what you did or say, or what you did not do or say. You may have been too clingy, or too needy, and you may have made mistakes and blunders along the way--- but these are not the reasons for why they are the way they are.

 

Before you knew them, before a relationship started with you, he/she was the person they are with you. It is part of who they are and how they operate in relationships. A love avoidant enters relationships with dysfunctional core issues, and they will leave a relationship with dysfunctional core issues. All of which problematic behaviors they will carry in any relationships they fall into.

 

If you want to have a happy, fulfilling, and healthy love relationship – it will not happen with someone who is love avoidant (and by the way, it goes both ways). Sometimes this is a hard reality to face- although in the end, it is a reality that will set you free. Unless and only unless they are willing to look at themselves can they change- BUT don’t bet on that.

 

Remember, love addicts attract a dysfunctional individual because of our own dysfunction. And the only way to stop it is by dissolving and resolving the dysfunction set in our minds and hearts… by doing the hard but priceless work of recovering and loving self-care.

[somanymistakes]

funny thing is I think I have a lot more avoidant/narcisisst traits than my MM does, though not all of them. i don't think i lack empathy but I know I have issues.

[Southwardbound]

SIX SIGNS OF A LOVE AVOIDANT

1. Evades Intimate and Emotional Connection

 

In romantic relationships evading intimacy and getting too close emotionally is the name of the game for a love avoidant. Emotional intimacy is a vital component of healthy relationships. Intimacy involves allowing oneself to ‘be known’. Intimacy is about trust, vulnerability, sharing reality of self, communicating wants and needs, as well as expressing genuine feelings and emotions. When there is authentic love, intimacy is at the core of that love.

 

Yet, intimacy and emotional closeness is the love avoidants greatest fear. Because of early childhood experiences, they learned to associate intimacy with engulfment, suffocation, and being controlled. So the closer you try to get to your partner- their response is not to reciprocate, but to distance and run. Instead of healthy boundaries to protect their sense of space and themselves (something intimacy also requires), they use thick emotional walls- that makes intimate connection impossible.

 

They are emotionally like a turtle that repeatedly pulls into his/her rigid shell when one attempts to get too close and connect emotionally. You may get occasional glimpses of his/her real self, openness, or vulnerability-- only to see them retreat once again behind their walls.

 

*Interestingly, a love avoidant with children does not fear emotionally connecting with their children. They feel safe and are not at risk of being known, vulnerable, and authentic with their children- since children are powerless and cannot abandon, reject, shame, or control them. What's more, some love avoidant parents can be too vulnerable and enmeshed- becoming love addicts in relation to their children.

2. Does a "Complete About Face” in the relationship– Becomes a Whole Different Person From Whom You First Met

 

As your relationship progresses, you notice a complete change in your partner’s attitude. A "complete about face" occurs. Your partner is notably different from the person you first met.

 

In the initial part of addictive relationships, the love avoidant exhibits an illusion of intimacy, caring, and connection. They form an immediate attachment idealizing their love addict partner. They come on strong and appear charming, strong, stimulating, caring, generous, and devoted - (all seductive maneuver's). Then the relationship moves forward and soon enough the true colors of the love avoidant emerge. The charm, attention, and seductiveness go out the door- no more! The seemingly once available “magical” person you fallen for becomes cold, devaluing, and disengaged.

 

As a love addict, you first cannot put a finger on what is happening, but you can feel it, and the shift in your partner is anxiety provoking. You say to yourself or to friends/family, “He/she was so thoughtful in the beginning, where is the person I met? I’m confused and baffled. What am I doing wrong?" You may make excuses and even blame yourself for the change you see in your partner.

 

Invariably, you try to give more, do more, be more romantic, or try to make things as they were. There is a pursuit of keeping the fantasy alive in order to recreate the euphoria experienced in the beginning of the relationship. And the toxic dance is in order. It is at this phase when a love avoidant is carrying out many of their strategies to avoid (3rd sign-next).

3. Uses Distancing Strategies to Avoid Intimacy and Closeness

 

You eventually feel a shift in your partner’s attitude. You sense your partner is not really ‘showing up’ in the relationship. And it is true- because a love avoidant is busy with their behavioral or emotional distancing strategies which are used to impede closeness and squelch intimacy.

 

For example, the love avoidant will compulsively focus outside the relationship. Instead of seeking intensity in the relationship, they seek intensity outside the relationship with the use of various behaviors and distractions (i.e., staying very busy with activities, hobbies, internet, partying, gardening, gaming, playing sports, shopping, spending all their time volunteering, or much more time with friends or family, etc.).

 

Some will use the distancing strategy of “no commitment” and never fully commit to the relationship. They may say, “I love you, I care about you, I want to be with you, but I’m not quite ready for a relationship.” They may use the distancing tactic of avoiding ‘I love you’, and make excuses for why they do so. They may avoid physical closeness (i.e., not wanting to have sex, or share the same bed; or avoid touching or caressing; hugging, kissing or holding hands; walking ahead of you or at a distance, etc.).

 

Another strategy commonly used to sabotage intimate connection is by creating a lot drama in the relationship such as starting arguments, or constantly complain about you, people, the world, or grumbling about their personal problems they never seem to resolve. They may sabotage closeness by criticizing, judging, being condescending, being passive-aggressive, attacking, lying, making threats, even by being accommodating (in certain situations) without being honest.

 

With a partner using strategies to avoid intimacy and closeness- a healthy loving relationship is unattainable.

4. Has an Addiction or Compulsive Problem

 

A love avoidant often have an addiction problem that significantly affects their relationship. Addiction is the ultimate cocktail to focus far-and-away from intimately connecting with a relationship partner.

 

They can have any kind of addiction, and there are many (both substance and behavioral) - gambling; drugs; alcohol; internet/computer; exercise, gaming addictions and the list goes on. Many are sex or porn addicts. Moreover, many are workaholics, that is they are excessively busy and preoccupied with their job or career (yes, work can be used like a drug to escape and certainly sabotage relational connection).

 

Additionally, a love avoidant partner can become a love addict- not in the relationship, but outside. More common than many people imagine, they can be in a committed relationship (or married), and become extremely addicted and obsessed with a person outside the relationship. And they can go through excruciating withdrawal if their cheating partner leaves them.

 

An addiction is a powerful method to escape from and sabotage a any close relationship.

5. Narcissist or Displays Narcissistic Traits

 

Love Avoidants are prone to narcissism. Not all are full-blown narcissists; nevertheless, a majority will almost certainly present some traits of narcissism. Narcissism is an undeniable indicator that a person is not intimately engaged in a relationship.

 

A Narcissist may show two faces -- the one they wear in public, and the one they wear in close interpersonal relationships; which is not a good one. On the outside in public, they can present a nice, pleasant exterior. People who are not close to them may view them as a fun, confident, charming, outgoing, social person.

 

Only those close to the narcissist have any idea there is more to them than this one fictitious face. BBehind their façade of tough-skin, strength, and charisma is a very fragile, wounded person who is thinks the world is all about him/her and feels above their relationship partner.

 

One telling trait of narcissism is the sense of entitlement. They want what they want when they want it. You can forget what you want- they do not care. They feel their needs and wants are all that matters; and their attitude is you should feel the same. Furthermore, you should NOT expect to have your needs and wants met, or even heard. They expect you to anticipate their every wish and if you do not – look out! - As they may lash with anger, rage, and strike back by devaluing and demeaning you as a person.

 

Other narcissistic traits:

 

-- Lacks empathy. Emotional support or understanding is minimal at best. Inability to identify with and understand your feelings; fails to recognize or care about what you are going through or experiencing; cold and aloof towards your feelings; displays an inability to be caring or compassionate through difficult times.

 

-- Has difficulty taking responsibility or admitting mistakes. When arguments or issues inevitably occur, he/she rarely feels accountable as being part of the problem. All relational troubles and predicaments are yours and yours only. They will never admit defeat. They have a selective memory of events, and seldom take ownership of past (or present) behavior that seems imperfect or unpleasant to them. They twist the facts, and in so doing, make you the ‘crazy’ one for even suggesting they somehow had a part of any problematic matter.

 

-- Grandiose: Is impracticable and idealistic in view of themselves. Has an extreme sense of superiority and self-importance; Their self esteem seems high, however it is false self esteem as it is only gained by viewing others as “less than” and the self as “better than”. They comprise a brazen mental state that it is always and forever, about him/her. They have a need for unconditional admiration, admiration, attention, but only on a superficial level.

 

-- Easily becomes defensive/feels threatened: If you are not propping him/her on the high artificial pedestal, he/she often becomes offended, slighted, or bitter. When you call them out or confront them on an issue, inappropriate comment or behavior, or if you set a boundary, share a differing view, opinion, or belief— they easily view it as a threat; and consider it an attack on themselves. More often than not, their response is to become defensive then strike back with rage, fury, power games, revengeful tactics, or passive aggressive behavior's.

 

* You may also notice narcissistic behavior's in your partners relationships with others (family, friends, coworkers, etc.)

6. Is Resistant to Professional Help (for self and/or a relationship)

 

The love avoidant is often very resistant to change and rather content with status quo as long as they feel in control of things (not mattering what you feel). As a result, they will often refuse or resist help such as counseling, therapy, and treatment.

 

To seek professional help through a therapist or counselor requires one to be vulnerable, open, honest, and accountable. In other words, it requires allowing oneself to be open to intimate connection, (remember, intimacy is their greatest fear). Essentially for the same reasons, just as they run from intimacy and accountability within a romantic relationship-- they strongly shun therapeutic help even if it could benefit themselves, their partner, and potentially the relationship.

 

If they do come in for treatment (often by being pulled in by their partner), they do so with emotional walls. Their defences will be up, and will avoid and distract from areas of emotional discussions, or issues of responsibility. Even when gently confronted by a therapist, they will play a victim- act as the sufferer, make excuses, accuse, blame, and avoid any accountable part they have in relational challenges; thereby closing off any opportunity to create healthy change for themselves or in the relationship.

A relationship with a love avoidant is in reality, not a real relationship at all— but a counterfeit emotional entangle.

 

If you are a love addict and your partner is love avoidant, it is important to keep in mind—that his/her attitude and behaviors, and who they show themselves to be in the relationship is not about you, or what you did or say, or what you did not do or say. You may have been too clingy, or too needy, and you may have made mistakes and blunders along the way--- but these are not the reasons for why they are the way they are.

 

Before you knew them, before a relationship started with you, he/she was the person they are with you. It is part of who they are and how they operate in relationships. A love avoidant enters relationships with dysfunctional core issues, and they will leave a relationship with dysfunctional core issues. All of which problematic behaviors they will carry in any relationships they fall into.

 

If you want to have a happy, fulfilling, and healthy love relationship – it will not happen with someone who is love avoidant (and by the way, it goes both ways). Sometimes this is a hard reality to face- although in the end, it is a reality that will set you free. Unless and only unless they are willing to look at themselves can they change- BUT don’t bet on that.

 

Remember, love addicts attract a dysfunctional individual because of our own dysfunction. And the only way to stop it is by dissolving and resolving the dysfunction set in our minds and hearts… by doing the hard but priceless work of recovering and loving self-care.

 

 

I recognize myself as the love addict and MM as the love avoidant. I know we both have dysfunctional issues. I've always cognizant of mine. I'm not so sure he is fully aware, of all of his personal issues?

 

My question is, how does one talk about this, without their other partner getting too defensive?

[SoleMate]

I recognize myself as the love addict and MM as the love avoidant. I know we both have dysfunctional issues. I've always cognizant of mine. I'm not so sure he is fully aware, of all of his personal issues?

 

My question is, how does one talk about this, without their other partner getting too defensive?

 

I can't tell you how to do something that I'm confident will be useless. You may as well have that conversation with the neighbor's parakeet for all the good it will do you.

[Chica80]

I recognize myself as the love addict and MM as the love avoidant. I know we both have dysfunctional issues. I've always cognizant of mine. I'm not so sure he is fully aware, of all of his personal issues?

 

My question is, how does one talk about this, without their other partner getting too defensive?

 

You cant....that's the point.

 

Love addicts are aware usually and more cognizant of their emotions thoughts etc. Avoidants aren't and don't want to be.

 

"That's the way I am and am always going to be"

[jah526]

To the original question, yes, I felt objectified. Here's an illustration. He really liked my boobs, and one time I said (sarcastically, hoping he'd recognize that), yes, they're the best thing about me. His reply - no, I like your p**** and butt too. Sad part is, he wasn't kidding.

 

Yep, I was just parts to him.

[somanymistakes]

As I said I identify more on the avoidant side of this equation, so my guess would be pretty much that you can't bring it up directly or they will completely stonewall at best, take offense and blame you at worst.

 

They have to encounter the ideas themselves without feeling forced or manipulated into it.

 

Even if you managed to trick them into thinking about it by having a discussion about someone else's relationship, or a fictional character's issues, the second you start looking at them with "DOES THIS RING A BELL?" in your eyes, they are probably going to be upset and push the whole idea away.

 

It's kind of one of those "can't help them unless they want to be helped" things.

 

If you push your ideas too hard at best they will fake paying attention while inside laughing at you for your stupid misunderstanding. (If they're me, they'll think about it later, after first telling you you're an idiot who's completely wrong about everything. But they are probably not me.)

[MidnightBlue1980]

My question would be why would a woman have such low self esteem to allow herself to be put in that position?

 

You tend to write it off and not take it seriously. It also gives you a warped feeling of sexual control and power, which is only an illusion.

 

For me, he told me in the beginning that he always loved going to lunch or dinner with me (we knew each other for years as business acquaintances) because when we walked through the restaurant, people looked at me and then at him, because he was with me, and he felt special, and he had never felt like that before with his wife.

 

I wrote it off an an odd comment and only in time would I realize how our whole relationship was just about him, his needs and his fantasies. I was a never a real person to him. Just a pretty doll to put on the shelf and take down to play with once in a while.

[sandylee1]

I believe there's something seriously wrong with a man who buys a doll like this.

[somanymistakes]

I believe there's something seriously wrong with a man who buys a doll like this.

 

Better to buy a doll than to mistreat a person IMO

[Southwardbound]

As I said I identify more on the avoidant side of this equation, so my guess would be pretty much that you can't bring it up directly or they will completely stonewall at best, take offense and blame you at worst.

 

They have to encounter the ideas themselves without feeling forced or manipulated into it.

 

Even if you managed to trick them into thinking about it by having a discussion about someone else's relationship, or a fictional character's issues, the second you start looking at them with "DOES THIS RING A BELL?" in your eyes, they are probably going to be upset and push the whole idea away.

 

It's kind of one of those "can't help them unless they want to be helped" things.

 

If you push your ideas too hard at best they will fake paying attention while inside laughing at you for your stupid misunderstanding. (If they're me, they'll think about it later, after first telling you you're an idiot who's completely wrong about everything. But they are probably not me.)

 

-Thank you for your response, it is very helpful, for my own situation.

[preraph]

I think if we knew the honest answer to that, women would probably never want to date again.

[norudder]

As I said I identify more on the avoidant side of this equation, so my guess would be pretty much that you can't bring it up directly or they will completely stonewall at best, take offense and blame you at worst.

 

They have to encounter the ideas themselves without feeling forced or manipulated into it.

 

Even if you managed to trick them into thinking about it by having a discussion about someone else's relationship, or a fictional character's issues, the second you start looking at them with "DOES THIS RING A BELL?" in your eyes, they are probably going to be upset and push the whole idea away.

 

It's kind of one of those "can't help them unless they want to be helped" things.

 

If you push your ideas too hard at best they will fake paying attention while inside laughing at you for your stupid misunderstanding. (If they're me, they'll think about it later, after first telling you you're an idiot who's completely wrong about everything. But they are probably not me.)

 

Yes, you're just hitting your head against the wall. The motivation for lasting behavioral or psychological change can only come from within. Usually from a 'rock bottom' moment.

[norudder]

To the original question, yes, I felt objectified. Here's an illustration. He really liked my boobs, and one time I said (sarcastically, hoping he'd recognize that), yes, they're the best thing about me. His reply - no, I like your p**** and butt too. Sad part is, he wasn't kidding.

 

Yep, I was just parts to him.

 

Ugh. Glad you saw what that kind of talk meant though. Its almost worse when they say things that and dont event "get it". I'd rather a selfish person acknowledge they are selfish, but these guys selfperception wont allow it.

 

I asked something along the lines of if we were the only ones on earth and had one last day what would you want to do together and of course it was sexual. I asked him once what it was he loved about me and forbade it from being sexual or about my body, and it was that I listened to him. Another "service" to him.

[MissCongeniality]

Ugh. Glad you saw what that kind of talk meant though. Its almost worse when they say things that and dont event "get it". I'd rather a selfish person acknowledge they are selfish, but these guys selfperception wont allow it.

 

I asked something along the lines of if we were the only ones on earth and had one last day what would you want to do together and of course it was sexual. I asked him once what it was he loved about me and forbade it from being sexual or about my body, and it was that I listened to him. Another "service" to him.

Sounds like a real class act... I can be selfish but I at least own up to it. At least most guys would tell me that in the following order my best features were my face(sometimes I like to think they'd at least be looking at my face when I was talking), boobs, and butt never did a man say my p**** that's just really sleazy and I'd tie him to the bed and soak his balls in hot wax if a guy ever said that to me then after he cried and begged I'd forgive him(provided his junk still worked lol) I'm joking though in all seriousness even when it was reversed I was pretty honest about my intentions and motives so I never really felt nor do I now feel I owe any apologies.

 

I view myself as a scavenger like a vulture or whatever and I'm not ashamed of it that's how I really lived for a large chunk of of my life I was virtually homeless (my step mom and dad were lazy and useless) and it wasn't really living just surviving literally on the scraps most people throw away. Occasionally when my brothers and sisters along with myself had to yeah we stole and we were good at it but we never denied it we always owned up to it and really I'd rather be a dumpster diving trash picker and a thief than someone who wastes and throws away something that's still perfectly good or salvageable. I will never throw something away unless I know for a fact it can't be fixed and food wise if my kids complain they have two choice suck it up and be happy they have something to eat or take off/out what they don't like.

Edited July 9, 2017 by MissCongeniality

[elaine567]

I believe there's something seriously wrong with a man who buys a doll like this.

 

I think this says it all.

 

The doll sleeps in his bed in a cluttered apartment on the outskirts of Tokyo, sandwiched between two dolls from previous dalliances and a headless rubber torso.

[freengreen]

and still the doll industry isnt very bright is it?.. why?... we( no offense, just club talk) are stupid enough to thwart it...